Conspiracy to delay the Electric Car?

By TonyGuitar · 91 replies
Jun 18, 2006
  1. Spike

    Spike TS Evangelist Posts: 2,168

    Very nice!!!

    I want one :D
  2. Vigilante

    Vigilante TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,666

    The Tesla looks so cool! I want one NOW!

    How about everybody interrested in EV technology, pool together all the cash they can and buy one. Then we just trade is between each other a few months at a time :)

    As far as battery power, to change subjects a little, what do you think about atomic batteries such as the Tritium types using radioactive isotopes? These have been around for a long time and are used to power sensors and things in hard to reach places. They last over ten years without needed replaced.

    I can imagine if such a technology were pushed to larger scales, there could be a battery in these EVs which would require NO charge for YEARS! Imagine that!
    But then again, the terms "atomic" and "radioactive" bring a few questions to mind as to how dangerous they would be in a moving vehicle. Given a crash or catching fire etc...

    Nevertheless. Technology has ALWAYS become cheaper, smaller, and faster with time. Nobody thought that todays fancy computer watches would be more powerfully then computers of old. The 25 pound "portable laptop" of old is now a million times better, and weighs 3 pounds.

    Given the history of invention, it shouldn't be to hard to predict that in 10 years perhaps, all-electric vehicles, of many shapes and sizes, will be availabe to the average family for a reasonable 10k to 30k, and be able to hold a charge for a good week at a time. And hopefully, these cars, and trucks, won't look like plastic play toys like some of todays do.

    I foresee a time where geeks in their garage could quite likely build their own EVs out of mail-order parts. Wouldn't that be cool! Build your own vehicle. Kinda like we can mail order parts to build go-carts etc...

    Things can only go up, if the conspiritors of the oil companies don't put a stop to it. Matter of fact, if they would only embrace it NOW, and dump their billions into it, they could corner the market right away, and double their cash flow by controlling BOTH sides. lol
  3. Mictlantecuhtli

    Mictlantecuhtli TS Evangelist Posts: 4,345   +11

    The current radioisotope thermoelectric generators are quite big for cars. I'm more interested in nanotechnology used for storing energy.
  4. hynesy

    hynesy TS Maniac Posts: 389

    I have always thought of the oil companies holding back the electic car, for reasons that are clear. Infact, i only thought about the possibility of oil companies holding back the electric car after watching the Stone Cutter, Simpons episode:p:p
  5. TonyGuitar

    TonyGuitar TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 90

    Buy your EV and foil Iran & Hezbollah

    Irwin Daisy said...

    Is there an answer? A moratorium on Muslim immigration into the west would be a welcome start. Preventing Iran and any other Islamic nation from achieving nuclear arms or WMD's is another. Perhaps this type of marginalization is the only answer until they are slowly forced to give up their murderous cult and join the rest of humanity.
    Posted by: Irwin Daisy at July 24, 2006 12:11 PM
    Defeat Iran and Hezbollah. Cut way back on using their oil.

    Quick Electric Vehicle Primer

    When you buy your new Toyota RAV4 EV, you can pay for it out of the $300 to $400 you do not pay for monthly gas purchases.

    Do not be tempted to buy a hybrid. Hybrids are needlessly complex and thus you remain in the grip of Big Auto.

    An electric vehicle consists of battery, motor, charger and brakes. Service costs should be virtually zero.

    There are lots of EVs to choose from.

    = TG

    Environment wins… Iran loses.
    Get it?
  6. TonyGuitar

    TonyGuitar TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 90

    This is a comment borrowed from:

    [ Yup, there is a magazine for electric vehicles called ]

    Doug Canfield:
    <B> Lets see. In 1994 we drove an EV1 at the Mesa facility 500 miles (806km)on a single charge. Less volume and weight than the PBA bats, and could recharge in a matter of a few minutes. This is news????
    28/Jul/2006 [29248]</B>

    Is it any wonder those drivers who were allowed to lease the GM EV1 just loved them and were bitterly disappointed when GM refused to allow any sales.

    One has to wonder at the wisdom of destroying 800 perfectly good stylish EV1 cars. Gm crushed them at their secure facility in Arizona.

    No, no. I would not dare suggest the EV1 was too good a product and may yet ruin the corporate profits of both Big Auto and Big Oil.

    Besides, you would probably find it so boring to pay only ONE penny per mile for transport.

    It would take away the fun of paying big bucks for gas.

    It would rob Iran of the funds to support Hezbollah and pay for Nukes.

    It would reduce all the fun happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It would subdue talk of Alberta separation.

    Electric Vehicle… Who would want one of those?… Eeeew.
    = TG
  7. DragonMaster

    DragonMaster TS Rookie Posts: 327

    That's total crap! A gas car can run ~500km, way better! (LOL!)

    Sure! One of the reasons why I still don't want to take a driving class...

    Oh we love them. They decided to keep the money from petroleum for them, so a lot of people here say : "Just wait to see when GHGs will make them out of water supplies, we'll do the same thing."
  8. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 10,742   +421

    Well TonyGuitar, somebody isn't telling the truth here. Because the article I linked says this:
    Also with Lead-Acid and NiMH batteries there is no way in hell you are going to charge them in a matter of minutes. Unless 'matter' means several hundred.

    If you do any looking around for how people in the R/C Car World treat their batteries (NiMH), you will see that the hardcore guys don't want more than 1 charge/discharge cycle per day on them, anything more and its too hard on the batteries, which shortens their life.

    The problem with this thread is most of the people reading it don't know a whole hell of a lot about the subject, and you spouting off quotes and ideas isn't helping much because aside from me and maybe 1 or 2 other people (out of the 83 posts so far) nobody is showing the other side.

    You are tossing out biased information here and without me quoting the article I linked earlier, everyone would have just believed that the EV1 could go 500 miles and recharge in minutes.

    "Minutes" to me in this context is the few minutes it takes me to get out of my truck, insert my credit card into the gas pump, select my 10% ethanol blend @ 89 octane and pump 15 gallons. I highly doubt that EV1 would be ready to go another several hundred miles in that time.
  9. DragonMaster

    DragonMaster TS Rookie Posts: 327

    Well, unless the batteries are capacitors, it's a bit hard to charge in minutes.

    If they use an "intelligent" charger type, charge/discharge on Ni-** batteries shouldn'T cause a problem. Lead-acid prefers to be charged once you stop using them, else they sulfate.
  10. Spike

    Spike TS Evangelist Posts: 2,168

    Well, to tell the truth, I quickly considered locking this thread the other day, because (and I may be wrong), it seems to me that nobody is really interested, and it's become a staging ground for one person to sing the praises of electric cars to a crowd more interesed in either fixing or helping to fix a computer - and then I noticed the emerging "look how gutted the middle east would be and how clever it would make us feel" strand.

    To tell the truth, I lost interest a while back, and would be more than happy to see this thread gone unless anybody else is interested (apart from the obvious person)
  11. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 10,742   +421

    I only continue to post to provide some counter balance to what I believe to be misinformation or at least skewed. This link gives some information about the EV1.

    Bottom line is its expensive, and the batteries suck.
  12. Vigilante

    Vigilante TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,666

    Regardless of how first generation EVs sucked or not, we must still have hope for the future. EVs certainly must be the future. At least I hope for small vehicles, motorcycles and scooters etc... I'd love to own one.

    I say lock the thread, it's expended.
  13. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 10,742   +421

    They might be the future. Probably are in some form, but they aren't practical over gasoline or diesel right now. Perhaps some universities outside the US should be working on this, especially if people think its a big conspiracy of big oil and the car companies. No reason for other countries to sit back and wait for the US to come up with a solution.

    I'm not going to lock the thread, but someone else can :) Or we could just quit posting in it...
  14. Vigilante

    Vigilante TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,666

    lol, agreed
  15. TonyGuitar

    TonyGuitar TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 90

    I know, You guys are just baiting me. should I go for the hook?

    You are certain that you are up to date on the state of today*s battery technology, are you?

    Thursday July 14, 2005
    The Guardian

    Batteries best hope on climate change

    Your article (Can technology stop climate change? July 7) failed to mention one of the most promising technologies for combating climate change: battery electric vehicles (BEVs).

    The widespread adoption of BEVs would lead to improvements in air quality, particularly in urban areas, fewer greenhouse gas emissions and less noise pollution. BEVs can also be recharged using electricity from renewable sources, [ wind, hydro, solar], in which case their use produces no emissions at all.

    BEVs have an important role to play in creating a sustainable, environmentally friendly transport system and uses technology that, unlike the hydrogen fuel cell, is available now and viable in the near future.
    Ralph Lovesy, Campaign for Battery Electric Vehicles

    Hydrogen is not a source of energy. Elemental hydrogen does not occur naturally, it is an energy carrier like electricity, with which it shares certain environmental advantages when used as a fuel in transport systems.

    Like electricity, hydrogen has to be made from primary energy sources. To make a significant impact on transport in the UK the choices seem to be to make it from 100 new nuclear plants, 100,000 wind turbines, biocrops replacing a substantial acreage of arable land, or to derive it from natural gas, coal or oil on a massive scale.

    Before embarking on the huge investment required to store, distribute and dispense hydrogen to thousands of hydrogen filling stations, the merits of these and related options for its production need to be thoroughly evaluated in the light of the considerable research and development taking place in various countries.

    The UK has much to offer on this and related work on fuel cells and carbon storage, but more needs to be done to co-ordinate it and to provide it with the backing it merits from government.

    Before embarking on this huge investment indeed. Never!
    Ask this question:
    Is it logical to set up a huge and expensive hydrogen fuel network when the alternate energy source plug-in all ready exists in every building that uses a light bulb?

    Would it be safer and more efficient to use hydrogen to produce power centrally or to have millions of hydrogen equipped cars on the highways requiring a whole new refueling system ?

    Is it cheaper to use Hydro, wind, and solar energy to feed the grid for plug in battery electrical vehicles, or is it cheaper to pump crude out of the ground, truck it to the refinery, use energy to heat and crack the crude into various grades of oils and gasses, then truck it again to various outlets for sale?

    Letter: These electric cars are no paralytics
    Independent, The (London), Jul 5, 2005 by Ralph Lovesy

    Sir: L K J Setright has a point when he refers to the on-board engine and gearbox of the hybrid car as a 'messy complication' ('Hybrids are not up to the job', 28 June). However, it is certainly an exaggeration to claim that 'carrying substantial storage batteries is what makes all electric vehicles paralytics' or that 'all present modes of storing electrical energy are inadequate'.

    The latest battery electric vehicles (EVs) use relatively light lithium ion batteries, which provide a driving range and maximum speed that is more than adequate for average urban use. And with better acceleration than many petrol and diesel cars, EVs are anything but sluggish, as evidenced by electric sports cars such as the Fetish and T-Zero. Most importantly, EVs offer the opportunity to greatly reduce pollution, especially when they are charged with renewable electricity.

    You may justifiably doubt my tech expertise, but the most respected London Guardian and the London Idependant have world respected reputations to protect. These sources are deemed to be bastions of integrity. = TG
  16. TonyGuitar

    TonyGuitar TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 90


    How could you imagine that the EV is not interesting to most of those intersted in computers and technology?

    Did you know that the CEO and principles of the Tesla Motors Co. are all major players in the Computer, technology and Internet fields?

    The company is based in Northern California [Sanfrancisco area, I think], and even though I am a Canadian, I will gladly root for these guys and their company. One of them holds patents in the Battery and Capacitor technology fields. He was the kingpin who made advances that allows us to enjoy lap tops, cell phones and power tools for extended periods today.

    ON the BEV*s UK links, you can find several about town EVs selling for 7 to 15 Pounds. Prices that are in the normal range.

    I am personally not trying to sell anything. I am just amazed at the general populations of Canada and the USA not realizing that this technology is here today and it is THE answer.

    I guess Big Oil and Big Auto threaten to withdraw advertising from the MSM if they write about Electric Vehicles. And the general public continues to snoooooze. Aint life a gas? =TG
  17. Spike

    Spike TS Evangelist Posts: 2,168

    I'm afraid that the very quote above is the exact thing you that are trying to sell. The subject isn't being discussed properly, but rather, you are posting lines after lines of biased quotations on the subject. People love discussing ideas, but they aren't so fond of people trying to sell them ideas.

    Yes, electric car technology is here and is here to stay - for now at least. I've already said I like the Electric mini back a few pages ago. However, it's not quite as ideal as you are putting across. Cost for one thing, the fact that the power to use them must be generated which means substantial pollution to the environment anyway, and finally the milage in combination with no quick way of recharging them again.
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