Peter Farkas
Posts: 654 +530
Good point on Intel GPUs. I'd love to see the A750 and A770 on this list. Maybe even the A380 if the RTX 3050 is on the list...
Cost Per Frame: Best Value Graphics Cards in Early 2023
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- Start date
Good point on Intel GPUs. I'd love to see the A750 and A770 on this list. Maybe even the A380 if the RTX 3050 is on the list...
Because some of us have ancient computers. The choice is between infalted 2 yo cards or over overpriced current gen
We did both for perspective. Intel GPUs would be a good addition for the future, I agree.
Badelhas
Posts: 139 +110
I also own a 3060 ti, won it in a giveaway almost 2 years ago. Also made some money mining and was working great for 1440p gaming (once in a while as well as I have 2 kids).
I've since upgraded my VR headset to the HTC Vive Pro 2 (used on Amazon) which as a 5k resolution so I am thinking about upgrading to the 3080 (selling the 3060ti for 300 and buying a used 3080 for 500). Do you you believe it would be be a good upgrade so I can take advantage of the full resolution of the Vive Pro 2?
Of course, I would love to have a latest generation GPU but these greedy companies won't get my money, no way Jose. 1000 bucks for a GPU? They're crazy, I refuse to spend that amount in a PC component. Cheers.
Simple. We can't predict the future. So when we publish a review on day one, we have the MSRP and the performance to measure how good a product is. Until mining, MSRP was very indicative of how much a product was going to cost at retail and discounts used to happen uniformly over time. That has changed in the last year or so.
For latter pricing changes, we follow up with more tests, like we did here:
GeForce RTX 3050 vs. Radeon RX 6600: 50 Game Benchmark
The Radeon RX 6600 is a catch at less than $300, but it wouldn't be right to simply recommend it without a GeForce alternative (RTX 3050), so...
www.techspot.com
So essentially you are cherry picking your data points.
Beerfloat
Posts: 847 +1,572
If 'value' was of such singular overriding importance to us, we'd all be sporting Samsung A53 phones and wearing a Casio watch on our wrist while driving our Toyota Corollas to Costco.
Thank fk we're living in a more colorful world than what Hardware Unboxed approves of.
Thank fk we're living in a more colorful world than what Hardware Unboxed approves of.
Point taken, but we don't just pursue value, this is an article dedicated to it but there's a reason why the RTX 4090 got a 90/100 (even if hard to comprehend to some)... it's a top of the line item and nothing performs like it...
Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 Review
This is our first look at Nvidia's new flagship GeForce RTX 4090 graphics card. We'll find out all you need to know about this next-gen GPU, most...
www.techspot.com
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,721 +4,821
Well of course it's going to be better than the cards you had before, that's how tech works. This is why I cringe every time I hear "This is the fastest CPU that Intel has ever made!" because a voice in the back of my head says "D'UHHHH, NO KIDDING, EH?".
The RTX 3060 Ti is an impressive 1080p gaming card that is also quite capable of gaming at 1440p at most games if you turn some settings down. It's one of the few GeForce cards that was a great value if you bought it for MSRP. The fact that you could mine the cost of the card back was an added bonus (depending on what you paid for it).
Well, you definitely didn't go wrong. There's nothing better than free except getting paid to take something!
I guess that nobody had the heart to point out that no version of the RTX 3050 is powerful enough to use RT in any meaningful way. With RT on, it has about the same performance as the RX 6600 but with RT off, the RX 6600 curbstomps it. So many people are too lazy to do their homework beforehand and are often too stupid to even think about it in the first place.
Never underestimate the stupidity of the average human. <- My proudest quote!
This is so true that it's both hilarious and painful to read at the same time.In case you missed it from our newsletter gallery / IG account
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Just because you got a dead card doesn't mean that the next one will also be dead.
Here's my history with Radeons:
HD 4870 - So good that I bought a second for Crossfire.
HD 7970 - Also so good that I bought a second for Crossfire.
R9 Fury - Best money I ever spent on a card. Bought a refurb as a second card for $100.
RX 5700 XT - Power delivery problems, had to RMA. Second card had a VRAM error so I had to RMA that one too. Was a pain in the posterior but R9 Fury could still game so I didn't really lose much sleep over it.
RX 6800 XT - Amazing performance and no issues whatsoever.
The secret to success with a Radeon GPU is that you have to use DDU. If, like me, you couldn't be bothered to go into safe mode, you have to run it twice. Also make sure that you're not connected to the internet when you run it both times. I used to unplug my ethernet cable but then slapped myself and just disabled the port in Windows. Do this before initial installation and make sure to choose "nVidia" over "AMD" because it's an nVidia driver package that you're removing. Then do the exact same thing with the AMD selection to clean your system before installing new Radeon drivers. I have a tendency to not do driver updates unless I really need them because, like you, I believe in not fixing what isn't broken.
The problem here is that the MSRPs are fake and a lot of the time, the market price is scalper price. It really is a no-win scenario.
I understand that but you don't go back and edit it either so that outdated opinion becomes permanent. You have to agree that based on reading both of those reviews, those who aren't experts will choose the RTX 3050 over the RX 6600. That's not in anyone's best interest is it? I would say it's quite the contrary. Now, certainly in the past when card prices weren't fluctuating like a star in the process of going nova this wasn't needed. However, because of what has occurred between then and now, those articles need to be revisited. It wouldn't be that hard because 99.9% of the data remains the same. All that would really need to be changed is the score and conclusion. I mean, seriously, one of the most-recommended and best-value cards out there, the RX 6600 XT has a score of 60.
For whatever reason, it's a REALLY bad look.
Sure, but that's not what people will be looking for because they're looking for a review. The way the review is worded also has an impact and Steve made the RX 6600 XT sound TERRIBLE while making the RTX 3050 (which is nothing more than hot garbage) sound like something worth buying. This is about the responsibility of the media, which, for better or for worse, Steve Walton is. If you know something's wrong, it is irresponsible to leave it as it is. I know that this is a rather unique situation but it's a real one.Until mining, MSRP was very indicative of how much a product was going to cost at retail and discounts used to happen uniformly over time. That has changed in the last year or so.
For latter pricing changes, we follow up with more tests, like we did here:
GeForce RTX 3050 vs. Radeon RX 6600: 50 Game Benchmark
The Radeon RX 6600 is a catch at less than $300, but it wouldn't be right to simply recommend it without a GeForce alternative (RTX 3050), so...
I used those because I happened to come across them first, EXACTLY how someone who was just trying to decide which one to buy would do. Only people who have watched Hardware Unboxed over time would have any idea how Steve does things. They're just looking for articles and if they're looking at TechSpot, congratulations, we'll have even more people willing to pay anything for nVidia cards because Steve said so and Steve is well-known and respected.
Cherry picking? Ok, I'll just show everything:
nVidia:
RTX 3050 - Score of 80
RTX 3060 - Score of 75
RTX 3070 - No Techspot Score listed
RTX 3070 Ti - Score of 75
RTX 3080 - Score of 90
RTX 3080 12GB - Score of 75
RTX 3080 Ti - Score of 75
RTX 3090 - Score of 80
RTX 3090 Ti - Score of 70
RTX 4070 Ti - Score of 80
RTX 4080 - Score of 80*
RTX 4090 - Score of 90
* - Score was said to be dropped to 70 after members of techspot collectively said "You're joking, right?" but it clearly wasn't.
AVERAGE GEFORCE SCORE: 79.1
AMD:
RX 6400 - Score of 30
RX 6500 XT - Score of 20
RX 6600 - No Techspot score listed
RX 6600 XT - Score of 60
RX 6650 XT - Score of 70
RX 6700 - Not reviewed
RX 6700 XT - Score of 70
RX 6750 XT - Score of 70
RX 6800 - Score of 95
RX 6800 XT - Score of 90
RX 6900 XT - Score of 75
RX 6950 XT - Score of 80
RX 7900 XT - Score of 70
RX 7900 XTX - Score of 80
AVERAGE RADEON SCORE: 67.5
It has been accepted that Radeons were fantastic values at the lower tiers, the tiers in which Techspot gave them the LOWEST scores. Maybe you were better off with me "cherry-picking my data" as you called it because showing EVERYTHING makes Techspot look even more like nVidia shills. Very few (if any) people would say that these scores are correct, even if they thought that nVidia was better in the past 2 gens, they wouldn't agree that they were THAT MUCH better.
I don't care if you deny the bias that has been slapping us in the face since RDNA2 came out because those numbers don't lie.
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Burty117
Posts: 5,108 +3,689
Wait, hold up a minute, you expect all reviewers to go back and update their reviews every time the price changes in your region?
What are you smoking?
Sorry, but no. The nature of product reviews (here and for 99.5% of the tech industry/press for the past 20 years) is that you write a review once and there's a date in your byline that means whatever you say there is true at that moment. You can't control or predict future pricing or future competitors.
We do try our best to test well so that performance (absolute performance) doesn't change radically from that review even if you read it a year or so later.
There's always a product cycle involved and other factors to consider depending on the product category. But going along your idea, I don't see iPhone 11 reviews (written or video) getting updated a year or two later, that's just not how things work.
We do happen to be one of those outlets that keep testing GPUs (and other tech products) later on, making new comparisons and roundups, and release periodic buying guides where we recommend best picks (for that given moment, bringing the update you mention)...
The Best GPUs: Early 2023 Update
When it comes to graphics cards, we go in-depth. Year in and year out we test dozens of GPUs from Nvidia, AMD (and also Intel) to see...
www.techspot.com
Those average scores mean nothing without context (release dates, intended market, etc.)... but hold on, I won't even try to explain that here.
As for your bias commentary, I'm honestly indifferent to it. I feel strongly about the work Steve and everybody else does on TechSpot and we call it how we see it (doesn't mean we can't be wrong at times). 20+ years later we are not in the business of playing favorites, except for the respect and appreciation we have for our readers.
Yikes.
I paid $810 in 5/2022 (back when prices were still INSANE) for an RTX 3080 12GB OC model and felt like I got a decent deal, as I had also paid $800 for my liquid-cooled EVGA 1080Ti OC back in 2018. The 3080 has nearly double the performance.
I'm sticking with 3440x1440p for the foreseeable future, so I think I'll be alright for quite a few years. Let's see if anything changes with the next gen GPUs in 2024(?)...
I paid $810 in 5/2022 (back when prices were still INSANE) for an RTX 3080 12GB OC model and felt like I got a decent deal, as I had also paid $800 for my liquid-cooled EVGA 1080Ti OC back in 2018. The 3080 has nearly double the performance.
I'm sticking with 3440x1440p for the foreseeable future, so I think I'll be alright for quite a few years. Let's see if anything changes with the next gen GPUs in 2024(?)...
Original MSRPs need to be taken into consideration. The RX 6600 XT was $379 and the RX 6600 was $329, the RTX 3060 Ti was $399 and the RTX 3060 was $329, at MSRP, the Nvidia cards were a better value. Even the RTX 3050 was $250 MSRP. Now that the Nvidia cards are still often selling above MSRP and the Radeon cards are well below MSRP, the value proposition has changed dramatically. Now you can get an RX 6700 XT (I'm just ignoring the 50s) for well under $400, it was $479. I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with the ratings at all, but it is clear that AMD mid-low cards were not a great value at all when they first launched. I think AMD has learned though. I think the RX 7800 XT and RX 7700 XT may actually be cheaper at launch than their 6000 series counter parts.Well of course it's going to be better than the cards you had before, that's how tech works. This is why I cringe every time I hear "This is the fastest CPU that Intel has ever made!" because a voice in the back of my head says "D'UHHHH, NO KIDDING, EH?".
The RTX 3060 Ti is an impressive 1080p gaming card that is also quite capable of gaming at 1440p at most games if you turn some settings down. It's one of the few GeForce cards that was a great value if you bought it for MSRP. The fact that you could mine the cost of the card back was an added bonus (depending on what you paid for it).
Well, you definitely didn't go wrong. There's nothing better than free except getting paid to take something!
I guess that nobody had the heart to point out that no version of the RTX 3050 is powerful enough to use RT in any meaningful way. With RT on, it has about the same performance as the RX 6600 but with RT off, the RX 6600 curbstomps it. So many people are too lazy to do their homework beforehand and are often too stupid to even think about it in the first place.
Never underestimate the stupidity of the average human. <- My proudest quote!
This is so true that it's both hilarious and painful to read at the same time.
Just because you got a dead card means that the next one will also be dead.
Here's my history with Radeons:
HD 4870 - So good that I bought a second for Crossfire.
HD 7970 - Also so good that I bought a second for Crossfire.
R9 Fury - Best money I ever spent on a card. Bought a refurb as a second card for $100.
RX 5700 XT - Power delivery problems, had to RMA. Second card had a VRAM error so I had to RMA that one too. Was a pain in the posterior but R9 Fury could still game so I didn't really lose much sleep over it.
RX 6800 XT - Amazing performance and no issues whatsoever.
The secret to success with a Radeon GPU is that you have to use DDU. If, like me, you couldn't be bothered to go into safe mode, you have to run it twice. Also make sure that you're not connected to the internet when you run it both times. I used to unplug my ethernet cable but then slapped myself and just disabled the port in Windows. Do this before initial installation and make sure to choose "nVidia" over "AMD" because it's an nVidia driver package that you're removing. Then do the exact same thing with the AMD selection to clean your system before installing new Radeon drivers. I have a tendency to not do driver updates unless I really need them because, like you, I believe in not fixing what isn't broken.
The problem here is that the MSRPs are fake and a lot of the time, the market price is scalper price. It really is a no-win scenario.
I understand that but you don't go back and edit it either so that outdated opinion becomes permanent. You have to agree that based on reading both of those reviews, those who aren't experts will choose the RTX 3050 over the RX 6600. That's not in anyone's best interest is it? I would say it's quite the contrary. Now, certainly in the past when card prices weren't fluctuating like a star in the process of going nova this wasn't needed. However, because of what has occurred between then and now, those articles need to be revisited. It wouldn't be that hard because 99.9% of the data remains the same. All that would really need to be changed is the score and conclusion. I mean, seriously, one of the most-recommended and best-value cards out there, the RX 6600 XT has a score of 60.
For whatever reason, it's a REALLY bad look.
Sure, but that's not what people will be looking for because they're looking for a review. The way the review is worded also has an impact and Steve made the RX 6600 XT sound TERRIBLE while making the RTX 3050 (which is nothing more than hot garbage) sound like something worth buying. This is about the responsibility of the media, which, for better or for worse, Steve Walton is. If you know something's wrong, it is irresponsible to leave it as it is. I know that this is a rather unique situation but it's a real one.
I used those because I happened to come across them first, EXACTLY how someone who was just trying to decide which one to buy would do. Only people who have watched Hardware Unboxed over time would have any idea how Steve does things. They're just looking for articles and if they're looking at TechSpot, congratulations, we'll have even more people willing to pay anything for nVidia cards because Steve said so and Steve is well-known and respected.
Cherry picking? Ok, I'll just show everything:
nVidia:
RTX 3050 - Score of 80
RTX 3060 - Score of 75
RTX 3070 - No Techspot Score listed
RTX 3070 Ti - Score of 75
RTX 3080 - Score of 90
RTX 3080 12GB - Score of 75
RTX 3080 Ti - Score of 75
RTX 3090 - Score of 80
RTX 3090 Ti - Score of 70
RTX 4070 Ti - Score of 80
RTX 4080 - Score of 80*
RTX 4090 - Score of 90
* - Score was said to be dropped to 70 after members of techspot collectively said "You're joking, right?" but it clearly wasn't.
AVERAGE GEFORCE SCORE: 79.1
AMD:
RX 6400 - Score of 30
RX 6500 XT - Score of 20
RX 6600 - No Techspot score listed
RX 6600 XT - Score of 60
RX 6650 XT - Score of 70
RX 6700 - Not reviewed
RX 6700 XT - Score of 70
RX 6750 XT - Score of 70
RX 6800 - Score of 95
RX 6800 XT - Score of 90
RX 6900 XT - Score of 75
RX 6950 XT - Score of 80
RX 7900 XT - Score of 70
RX 7900 XTX - Score of 80
AVERAGE RADEON SCORE: 67.5
It has been accepted that Radeons were fantastic values at the lower tiers, the tiers in which Techspot gave them the LOWEST scores. Maybe you were better off with me "cherry-picking my data" as you called it because showing EVERYTHING makes Techspot look even more like nVidia shills. Very few (if any) people would say that these scores are correct, even if they thought that nVidia was better in the past 2 gens, they wouldn't agree that they were THAT MUCH better.
I don't care if you deny the bias that has been slapping us in the face since RDNA2 came out because those numbers don't lie.
Coreteks says it's price fixing and looks like he's right. As I often say when we had like you said 5-6 gpu makers, competition was amazing : glide, transform and lighting, bilinear filtering... and good prices.
poshflamingos
Posts: 102 +247
This misses an important piece of context. The prices for the 3060 and 3060 Ti were announced before the pandemic/crypto boom. The RX 6600 cards, on the other hand, were announced and launched during the pandemic, where nothing in the market made sense. When the 6600 XT was announced for $380, the 3060 was going for $800+, if you could even find one. You were never actually able to buy a 6600 XT for $380 either, they just instantly disappeared from the shelves.
Remember Nvidia launched cards that made no sense during the pandemic as well. 3090 Ti, 3080 Ti, 3080 12 GB and 3070 Ti were all also shameless moneygrabs that made no sense price-wise compared to the original products, it was just a way for Nvidia to sell the same silicon, with tiny configuration adjustments, for more money.
The difference is that after the pandemic/crypto stuff eased, AMD's prices went back down to what was expected (6600 and 6700 cards are now priced in line with what the 5600 and 5700 cards were), while Nvidia is still trying to push unsreasonable prices above their original MSRP from over two years ago.
Burty117
Posts: 5,108 +3,689
That doesn't matter, we're no longer in a pandemic or crypto boom and prices are still crazy.
They can only judge a products value based on MSRP at review time. There isn't any way round that as they aren't mind readers or able to see into the future.
Burty117
Posts: 5,108 +3,689
Maybe where you are, here in the UK AMD cards are just as overpriced as Nvidia's.
Please excuse the shoddy nature of this chart, as it only shows the Cost Per Frame and I've only done it for the 1440p data, but this is how it looks for the UK market:
Prices include VAT & delivery and were taken from PriceSpy -- I followed through each entry listed to ensure that the item was in stock and there were no other fees.
Prices include VAT & delivery and were taken from PriceSpy -- I followed through each entry listed to ensure that the item was in stock and there were no other fees.
Burty117
Posts: 5,108 +3,689
No you're right, prices have gone down for AMD, November/December though I was in the market for a GPU and AMD's was just as expensive as Nvidia's. Looks to have calmed down in January.
Endymio
Posts: 2,661 +2,682
What happened during the pandemic made perfect sense, to anyone who understood economics. And you realize it's NVidia who sets those MSRPs, right? They could raise those "suggested" prices 40% overnight, and suddenly all their boards would be selling substantially below MSRP.
What *really* happened is that demand for AMD's cards has weakened more than it has for NVidia, and prices -- as floating prices always do in a free market -- reflect that reality.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,721 +4,821
Those score numbers don't lie and they're absurd. GeForce cards were given passes where Radeon cards were penalised, the tone of the reviews for RTX 40 cards was that of an apologist while the tone of the reviews for RX 7000 cards was that of an indignant taskmaster.
TechSpot is one of the few outlets that gave the RTX 4070 Ti a positive review. Hell, even PC World didn't do that, giving it a score of 20/100. TechSpot is also one of the few outlets to give the RX 7900 XTX a negative review. I'm not basing that on score, but on the tone of the review which was clearly hostile and dismissive, far different from the fawning tone received by every RTX 40-series card.
I've built myself a very good reputation, not just here but in other forums as well as someone who doesn't make things up and doesn't say anything that he can't back up instantly. Even those who hate me the most will admit that even when I say something that is factually incorrect, my methods of finding information are sound and when I'm shown to be wrong, I immediately own it. I don't just not reply like a coward, I eat crow like a man. Don't be so quick to dismiss any assessment I make because I don't make them lightly. I remain objective because only by accepting reality does progress get made.
I showed you a trend that doesn't match reality. You can dismiss it if you like but you can't say that I'm imagining things.
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Endymio
Posts: 2,661 +2,682
Of the first 7 reviews to popup on Google, 4 were positive, one was neutral, and only two negative. But, I suppose we should count our blessings that you didn't once again tell us how you lived just down the street from ATI, and it was The-Best-Company-Ever.
Reading this site's reviews as an entirely neutral observer (I don't game) they appear to be quite balanced. If anything, the site's persistence on rating "cost per frame" as the primary metric gives AMD an edge over NVidia. But I don't believe that's due to any hidden bias: it's a simple fact that such figures are more easily quantified than more intangle factors.
6800 XT - $649
6800 - $579
6700 XT - $479
6600 XT - $379
6600 - $329
6500 XT - $199
You can see that these were the MSRPs that AMD always intended. They lined up pretty well based on performance and price. Maybe, the 6600 was originally planned at $299, but I doubt it. Still, the 3060 at $329 was a better value at MSRP. It doesn't matter what happened in the market for this reason, it happened to these cards too. After launch, you could not get a 6600 XT for under $500. The MSRP was the only thing the reviewers could base their opinions on. At the time, they wrote their reviews assuming that the cards would eventually return to MSRP. Well, they did not for nearly two years. Again, I think the AMD scores could have been a little higher, but the 6500 XT and 6400 earned those scores, they are terrible cards for a host of reasons. Those are bringing your average down. You should consider those outliers if you are going to use an average score. The 3050 as bad as it is, was still a ton better than either of those. The 6500 XT lost performance in PCI gen 3 slots, significantly. The 6400 just wasn't a gaming card but had an MSRP of $159, it should have been $99.00 at most.
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