Deadly vaping-related lung disease claims the lives of four Americans (updated)

Ludak021

Posts: 262   +195
> Vaping is commonly considered a safer, healthier alternative to traditional cigarettes.
Healthier alternative my rear end. If you're breathing in anything but regular air, it's probably not good for you.
What part of "alternative to traditional cigarettes" did you not understand? Traditional cigarettes are hardly clean air. For every vaper that dies from vaping, millions of people die from smoking (which is not banned)
 

thews86

Posts: 51   +47
A lot of people did not read the article. These illnesses occurred under very specific circumstances. These people were buying black market (unregulated) THC vapes with Vitamin E Acetate. Point is, what you buy at a marijuana dispensary is not going to kill you. Juul and other nicotine vapes are completely unrelated to this, not that they shouldn't be further researched like anything else. Obviously, people are better off doing none of this stuff.
 
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mcborge

Posts: 599   +486
It's funny how everyone on here is blaming vaping outright for this whilst completely ignoring the fact that it's only vapers in the US that have been affected. There doesn't seem to be the same problem in any other country. Either it's down to lax product safety standards, counterfeit product or outright sabbotage. I'm in the uk and I've been vaping for nearly a decade with no issues what so ever... Funny that isn't it.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 16,065   +4,868
It's funny how everyone on here is blaming vaping outright for this whilst completely ignoring the fact that it's only vapers in the US that have been affected. There doesn't seem to be the same problem in any other country. Either it's down to lax product safety standards, counterfeit product or outright sabbotage. I'm in the uk and I've been vaping for nearly a decade with no issues what so ever... Funny that isn't it.
With the UK having a population of 66 million, aginst the United States' 330 million, no valid comparison can be made. And while I am happy for your good health, one individual,certainly can't be presumptuous enough to imagine they are proof of any overall health trends or issues related to the topic.

So, I suppose the most relevant date we can cull from your post, is that you live in the UK. Congratulations.

Just don't let the authorities find out if you should be bold enough to assemble, "a mixed tape". :rolleyes:

I would like to point out the the most salient commonality between our two nations, is the fact your current prime minister is every bit as insane as our current president. :eek:
 
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mcborge

Posts: 599   +486
With the UK having a population of 66 million, aginst the United States' 330 million, no valid comparison can be made. And while I am happy for your good health, one individual,certainly can't be presumptuous enough to imagine they are proof of any overall health trends issues related to the topic.

So, I suppose the most relevant date we can cull from your post, is that you live in the UK. Congratulations.

Just don't let the authorities find out if you should be bold enough to assemble, "a mixed tape". :rolleyes:
Logic trumps rhetoric.
 
R

retsxel

Gee wiz, inhaling super-heated gases into your lungs is deadly, just like the tobacco original. Imagine that...
 
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amghwk

Posts: 771   +546
@MaXtor

Wow....you must be one of those hardcore "vapers" or selling vaping products. Your hardline protection and advocation of vaping is astounding!
 
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slamscaper

Posts: 273   +81
I have to go by my own experience. From what I've read, it's the Vitamin E Acetate that is in most black market THC vaping products that is linked to this outbreak.

Think about this for a bit. Vaping has been around longer than 10 years now. But all the people having issues are kids who haven't even been vaping long (save for a few young adults).

I've been vaping now for almost five years. I've always bought premium eliquid from all the same manufacturers. Once I find one that I like, I stick with them. I haven't had ANY issues whatsoever. Not even a little bit of a cough, or anything. Vaping go me off chewing snuff, which I had started in high school when I played football. Chewing snuff was a TERRIBLE habit and all my GF's obviously hated it. I had to spend thousands to fix my teeth and then once I did, I swore I'd quit chewing. I tried everything available to quit chewing. But in the end, vaping was the ONE thing that finally saved me from that nasty habit. So it's hard for me to sit her and not advocate for a cessation method that works.

Now, whatever is causing this issue, whether it is the Vitamin E Acetate or not, they have to finally just get to the bottom of it because it's OBVIOUSLY not vaping in general.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 16,065   +4,868
You should know.
"Me too, I know you are"! :p Really, is that all you've got?

I believe in conspiracy theories a lot less less than most. One I do cherish, is that Apple paid people off at Samsung's R & D lab, to screw up the battery design of the Galaxy S-7, resulting in an exploding phone, along with a huge uptick is sales for Apple. I couldn't seem to get anybody on board with that though

When you say, "I've been vaping for 10 years without ill effects", keep in mind that's just you bragging, and well outside of any sane statistician's sample rate for a valid conclusion.

To minimize your concerns, I would suggest the US FDA perform on site inspections, the same as they do for beef. (Or any other foodstuff).

If the vaping fluid is coming from China, (it has been suggested that is the case), only god knows what's in it. I would suggest you research our massive pet food recall from a few years back. (I'm not going to bother posting a barrage of links), you can look it up yourself if you so choose..

As an example of China's possible involvement in illegal pharmacology and a lethal addition to our "opiod crisis".... According to the DEA, most of the carfentanil showing up on the streets today originated in clandestine drug labs in China.

You still are way off the mark comparing the number of individual cases in a population of 66 million, as opposed to a population of 330 million. That's not, (your self proclaimed) "logic", that's the absurd conclusion of someone who enjoys hearing themselves talk.

If I had to guess, (as apparently I am being compelled to do), I would hazard a well educated guess and conclude, that it is a systemic, culturally induced problem, in American millennial youth

Or to paraphrase the old Spock line, "the excesses and abuses of the few, are interfering with the needs of the many".
 
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mbrowne5061

Posts: 1,599   +905
Wondering if this is caused by the chemistry of the liquids being inhaled or simply the inhalation of vapors or smoke in general. It would definitely be good to know if something as simple as regular water inhalation can cause lunge problems in addition to the impact certain substances can have on your risk factor.
I feel like if it was smoke, vapor, or foreign particles in general, they would already be drawing parallels between this and things like miner's lung. They don't seem to be doing this, and instead compared it more to a unknown kind of cancer (without them being sure it was cancer) - the scans are probably showing a non-metastasizing tumor.
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 12,473   +5,851
Meanwhile in England...
Please, the hospitals didn't even want the no smoking sign up. Smoking brings them business. And now vaping is doing the same. There is only one reason why they put the sign up, too much backlash from nonsmokers.
 

MaXtor

Posts: 352   +278
Please, the hospitals didn't even want the no smoking sign up. Smoking brings them business. And now vaping is doing the same. There is only one reason why they put the sign up, too much backlash from nonsmokers.
No, because they don't have a Tobacco Masters Settlement Agreement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement) causing states to default on their bonds and lose millions due to the decrease in smoking by the success of vaping. They're not being swayed by lobbiests and pharmaceutical companies losing millions on their quit smoking aids that don't work and the medicine sold to those suffering from smoking related illnesses. Their government has reviewed the research, and continues to review research, their conclusion has been (since 2014) and continues to be that vaping is minimally 95% safer than smoking. They're supporting regulated vaping fullheartedly and other safer alternatives to smoking as they know it is saving lives. You can even find vape shops inside of hospitals in the UK (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/10/vape-shops-hospital-smokers-kick-habit-west-midlands).
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,363   +3,444
Any serious proclamation the CDC makes, is subject to more stringent standards, than a jury verdict in a felony trial. The CDC has to have proven their theory, "beyond a shadow of a doubt", before rendering a statement of a causal link between"X" substance, and "Y" disease or malady. Which is why, they're using conditional syntax in their opinion. IMO, it's simply a question of waiting for conclusive and repeatable laboratory results before going public.
Which is why I posted that, as I am sure you know. The thread is thick with conspiracy theories as well as people taking the TL;DR approach and failing to get to the key words - the cause has not been determined.

Or simply reading that in SOME cases, vapers have reported using black market vape liquids and jumping directly to the conclusion that black market vape liquids ARE the cause.

I think its amazing that some have no clue what "SOME" means and have no clue what "the cause has not been determined" means. But this is TS - par for the course.

It seems that you and I are among the few that have a command of the English language and possess an acute ability to recognize BS.
 
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MaXtor

Posts: 352   +278
The thread is thick with conspiracy theories.
You can thank Sir Karl Popper for that great phrase to write off common human behaviour throughout recorded history.

Or simply reading that in SOME cases, vapers have reported using black market vape liquids and jumping directly to the conclusion that black market vape liquids ARE the cause.
"According to a new report on patients in Illinois and Wisconsin who experienced severe respiratory illnesses after vaping, 83 percent admitted using black-market cannabis products. While 17 percent said they had used nicotine only, some of them may have been reluctant to admit using illegal drugs, and it's not clear that any of them were using standard e-cigarettes."
83 percent admitted to using illegally purchased THC products, you don't think it's safe to conclude that the remaining 17 percent were afraid to admit to a felony? Fair enough, though I don't think it's a far stretch to factor in human nature to lie in order to avoid repercussions.
https://reason.com/2019/09/09/study...in-vapers-are-linked-to-illegal-thc-products/
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,065   +4,868
Which is why I posted that, as I am sure you know. The thread is thick with conspiracy theories as well as people taking the TL;DR approach and failing to get to the key words - the cause has not been determined.
Well, people here tend to have problems separating their personal experience and opinions with actual facts. I will say that quadruple naught 7's posts are pointlessly long, bordering on diarrhea of the mouth. If there were any other point to then, other than the fact he's a hopelessly addicted vaper, with an obsessive need to inflict his opinion at great length on everyone he comes close to being in contact with. Along with a one track mind, fixated on vaping to boot. Which is the point where I run up against the TL,DR wall, and I believe justifiably so.

Dickens and his contemporaries were, (I believe), paid by the word, which excuses them to some extent for their excesses.

You'll run into the same phenomenon with many newspaper articles as well. The first half dozen paragraphs contain all the necessary information, after that, they're just milking it.

Or simply reading that in SOME cases, vapers have reported using black market vape liquids and jumping directly to the conclusion that black market vape liquids ARE the cause.
I'd have to say that if you're not vaping to protect yourself from the dangers of smoking, then "sport vaping" involving illegal substances would most likely carry a higher risk factor.

My pet theories involve personal high risk excessive use and drug abuse. When you come right down to it, you can vape or smoke marijuana, hashish, and black tar opium.

But reasonably speaking, I imagine one individual could have a "half pack a day vaping jones", while another might routinely vape, "four packs a day"

I think its amazing that some have no clue what "SOME" means and have no clue what "the cause has not been determined" means. But this is TS - par for the course.
China, (according to our DEA, if you choose to believe them),, has an involvement with producing carfentanil, and I believe I read a piece which they were responsible for supplying vaping fluid. Now, China has a poor product safety record at best.and I'd like to mention our huge pet food recall. Ironically, all the supposedly "luxury brands", were made in China, while lowly Purina offerings were home grown. I'm pretty sure China is not above, "stirring our opiod crisis pot".

Put it this way, I certainly don't think China is above tampering with, or simply not bothering what the hell they put in it their product, while we certainly don't have on site FDA inspectors there, as we would in a US food plant

So, those are simply a possibilities, not any iron clad conclusions

It seems that you and I are among the few that have a command of the English language and possess an acute ability to recognize BS.
The tragic thing here a Techspot, is that we've lost many of our more educated and articulated members, while suffering an inordinately large influx of SJWs, gamer boys, and millennials whom have absorbed so much contemporary propaganda, they're incapable of independent thought.

I offer the crap regurgitated from Musk's mouth which metamorphoses to the word of god in topical discussions as a prime example. (Although his company's boards of directors seem to have his leash yanked pretty tight ATM). Although I'm also pretty sure, "this too, shall pass".
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,363   +3,444
You can thank Sir Karl Popper for that great phrase to write off common human behaviour throughout recorded history.


"According to a new report on patients in Illinois and Wisconsin who experienced severe respiratory illnesses after vaping, 83 percent admitted using black-market cannabis products. While 17 percent said they had used nicotine only, some of them may have been reluctant to admit using illegal drugs, and it's not clear that any of them were using standard e-cigarettes."
83 percent admitted to using illegally purchased THC products, you don't think it's safe to conclude that the remaining 17 percent were afraid to admit to a felony? Fair enough, though I don't think it's a far stretch to factor in human nature to lie in order to avoid repercussions.
https://reason.com/2019/09/09/study...in-vapers-are-linked-to-illegal-thc-products/
As I see it, you are cherry-picking for whatever reason. Perhaps those cherries are good and perhaps they have worms in them.

Here's the original study - https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1911614?query=featured_home

To your credit, it does say:
A total of 84% of the patients reported having used tetrahydrocannabinol products in e-cigarette devices, although a wide variety of products and devices was reported.
But the conclusions are:
Case patients presented with similar clinical characteristics. Although the features of e-cigarette use that were responsible for injury have not been identified, this cluster of illnesses represents an emerging clinical syndrome or syndromes. Additional work is needed to characterize the pathophysiology and to identify the definitive causes.
The point is, even those who, apparently (by their own supposed admission), are using ONLY legal juice have also experienced problems, and the cause of the problems in all cases are not currently known.

<..>
China, (according to our DEA, if you choose to believe them),, has an involvement with producing carfentanil, and I believe I read a piece which they were responsible for supplying vaping fluid. Now, China has a poor product safety record at best.and I'd like to mention our huge pet food recall. Ironically, all the supposedly "luxury brands", were made in China, while lowly Purina offerings were home grown. I'm pretty sure China is not above, "stirring our opiod crisis pot".

Put it this way, I certainly don't think China is above tampering with, or simply not bothering what the hell they put in it their product, while we certainly don't have on site FDA inspectors there, as we would in a US food plant

So, those are simply a possibilities, not any iron clad conclusions.
As I see it, this is one aspect that the "it HAS to be the illegal THC products" are also missing in that "legit" vaping fluids are not regulated in any way.

Maybe it is the illegal THC containing products, but as you noted, the jury is out on that at this point. However, even any legal "juice" could just as easily have some really bad stuff in it. There are profiteers everywhere - just like the tobacco companies hid research that smoking was dangerous.

Well, you and I could do, and have done in the past, a number on Musk and his disciples. :laughing:
 

MaXtor

Posts: 352   +278
The point is, even those who, apparently (by their own supposed admission), are using ONLY legal juice have also experienced problems, and the cause of the problems in all cases are not currently known.
So you agree with me except for my take on the fraction of people who in my opinion simply wouldn't admit to committing a felony? Your conclusion is that everyone answered honestly despite the inherent risk of doing so. Alright, you're entitled to your point of view.
 

Markoni35

Posts: 750   +263
It's marijuana related.
If they didn't extract that crap from marijuana or hemp there would be no problems.
 

lazer

Posts: 348   +100
Cigarettes smoking take 30 or 40 years to destroy the lungs; vaping seems to take only a few years.

It should be banned as well as cigarettes.....
 
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Mugsy

Posts: 662   +114
"Here! Repeatedly put this device in your mouth that you never wash and inhale warm moist air deep into your lungs. What could possibly go wrong?" SMH.