Donald Trump thinks Taiwan should pay for US defense, says it took America's chip business

[Endymio]

Any article about the orange cockroach and you can expect his supporters to crawl out from under their rocks and try to make a lot of noise with their nonsense.

Ignorant, inflammatory posts spreading hatred like these are the primary reason that assassins in recent years have tried to take House leader Scalise, Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh, and soon-to-be President Trump.

You mean when conservative isolationists wanted to stay out of world affairs, allowing dictators like Hitler and Stalin to come to power?

Learn history. The rise of Leftist politicians like the National Socialists of Germany (the Nazis) and Stalin in the USSR were *cheered* by liberals in the US. The Nazis had a grab-bag of liberal policies: a strong central government clamping down on "big business exploiting the workers", a strong social safety net, a high minimum wage, free college educations, expanded access to abortion, etc, etc, and the USSR took it even further.

Even as Stalin was literally starving to death millions of his own citizens in Ukraine, the NYT was writing a series of glowing articles about Stalin, and how much better his system was than the evil capitalism of the USA. In the ultimate irony, that series of articles won the ultimate token of liberal respect: the Pulitzer Prize for Journalism -- a prize that still today has never been revoked or challenged.

The GOP strategy on taking responsibility -

LOL, from the party that's literally blamed Trump for Biden's entire administration.

 

[Endymio]

Look at Ukraine: For 10% of one years worth of defense spending, Ukraine has basically destroyed the majority of Russia's T-72, T-80, and T-90 profile

Learn about your subject before attempting to debate it. As the US head of European Command recently testified to Congress, the Russia military today is larger, stronger, and far more capable today than it was two years ago. They've gained invaluable information about US tactics and weapons systems, information they've been sharing with China. Total personnel count has risen from 1.02M troops to 1.35M -- and those troops are far better trained today than they were in 2022. And after 30+ years of budget declines, Russia is once again dramatically boosting defense budgets. Way to go, Joe.

And stop the "10% of our military budget" nonsense. As of May 2024, total US aid to Ukraine was $175B, and rising fast. That figure doesn't count indirect costs from training Ukrainian troops, logistics support, nor all the intel missions flown and spy-satellite retasks we've done on Ukraine's behalf. Claiming this monstrous figure is somehow 'trivial' is beyond absurd.

As for the idiocy about Russia losing a large number of tanks: this war has shown just how useless tanks are in modern warfare. The M1 Abrams MBTs we sent to Ukraine were supposed to "change the face of the war". Instead, Russia immediately destroyed six of these $10M behemoths using nothing but $500 drones -- and Ukraine immediately retired them from combat. Russia's only lost about 80 of its 2,100+ fleet of fighters and bombers, none of it's nuclear-power surface ships and submarines, and -- most importantly of all -- every one of it's 7,000+ nuclear weapons ... more than the entire rest of the world combined. And this war has brought the world closer to global thermonuclear disaster than at any point in human history, Cold War years included. For what -- to prove a point that NATO has a right to expand into Ukraine? You'll need a better argument than that for converting a billion people into radioactive vapor.

 

[Endymio]

You can really tell the people who come from the land of Alternative Facts.

There's no reaching the anti-Trump zealots with facts: as soon as you debunk one, they just respond with two more. But let's rebut just one of those ubiquitous falsehoods:

Sharpiegate: After the media successfully misled some gullible anti-Trumpers, the true facts came out:

"...On Sept. 6, NOAA released a statement that seemed to back the White House. the statement read, “From Wednesday, August 28, through Monday, September 2, the information provided by NOAA and the National Hurricane Center to President Trump and the wider public demonstrated that tropical-storm-force winds from Hurricane Dorian could impact Alabama...."

Trump's comments were made on SEPT 1. So much for that lie.

Internal emails from NOAA in FOI requests confirm this: " The email read, “Note that the [National Hurricane Center] forecast product includes an extra black line over Alabama. Do we know when this product was released? ...."

What's truly ironic is that I saw this NOAA line extending over Alabana myself on CNN; a fact I clearly remember as a family member was then en route to the FL/AL coast. Yet less than 24 hours later, CNN was falsely claiming that "Trump lied" about NOAA ever predicting that Dorian might strike Alabama.

 

[gamerk2]

Ignorant, inflammatory posts spreading hatred like these are the primary reason that assassins in recent years have tried to take House leader Scalise, Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh, and soon-to-be President Trump.

I'm sure "blood running down the streets if I lose" has something to do with it as well. Because let's be clear: The right has *long* been calling for an overthrow of the government, and a majority now support political violence.

Learn history. The rise of Leftist politicians like the National Socialists of Germany (the Nazis) and Stalin in the USSR were *cheered* by liberals in the US. The Nazis had a grab-bag of liberal policies: a strong central government clamping down on "big business exploiting the workers", a strong social safety net, a high minimum wage, free college educations, expanded access to abortion, etc, etc, and the USSR took it even further.

And leaving the discussion "purely" to economics: It worked. Germany from 1933 to the start of WWII was by far the most successful economy in Europe.

Even as Stalin was literally starving to death millions of his own citizens in Ukraine, the NYT was writing a series of glowing articles about Stalin, and how much better his system was than the evil capitalism of the USA. In the ultimate irony, that series of articles won the ultimate token of liberal respect: the Pulitzer Prize for Journalism -- a prize that still today has never been revoked or challenged.

The articles you speak of were a comparison of how Communism does certain things better then Capitalism (which is true). Note that the mass starvation in Ukraine wasn't exactly public knowledge at time.

LOL, from the party that's literally blamed Trump for Biden's entire administration.

When you have Trump appointed judges overrule laws passed by Congress on novel at best Constitutional grounds, yeah, that's Trumps fault.

What isn't Trumps fault? The fastest growing economy since the 90s, and the economy that came out of the pandemic in by far the strongest condition. Or the return of American manufacturing back to the states. Or the lowest levels of minority unemployment *ever*.

 

[gamerk2]

Learn about your subject before attempting to debate it. As the US head of European Command recently testified to Congress, the Russia military today is larger, stronger, and far more capable today than it was two years ago. They've gained invaluable information about US tactics and weapons systems, information they've been sharing with China. Total personnel count has risen from 1.02M troops to 1.35M -- and those troops are far better trained today than they were in 2022. And after 30+ years of budget declines, Russia is once again dramatically boosting defense budgets. Way to go, Joe.

Not quite technically correct. While Russian troop counts are up, the overwhelming majority are conscripts with little to no training, hence why Russia is forced to use mass infantry assaults to make any progress. Meanwhile, a number of their elite units have been effectively decimated and are no longer effective fighting forces.

Secondly, those weapon systems you speak of exist to be used. Your argument is "lets not use our weapons because our enemies might find out how they work". Brilliant logic.

And stop the "10% of our military budget" nonsense. As of May 2024, total US aid to Ukraine was $175B, and rising fast. That figure doesn't count indirect costs from training Ukrainian troops, logistics support, nor all the intel missions flown and spy-satellite retasks we've done on Ukraine's behalf. Claiming this monstrous figure is somehow 'trivial' is beyond absurd.

Relative to the rest of the defense budget? Yes, its trivial. I also note the cost of doing nothing is *not* zero, and will show up in a bulking up of forces in the European theatre and accelerated weapon system development.

The only way to stop a bully is to punch them in their face. Putin will not stop trying to expand, either through subterfuge or through force.

As for the idiocy about Russia losing a large number of tanks: this war has shown just how useless tanks are in modern warfare. The M1 Abrams MBTs we sent to Ukraine were supposed to "change the face of the war". Instead, Russia immediately destroyed six of these $10M behemoths using nothing but $500 drones -- and Ukraine immediately retired them from combat. Russia's only lost about 80 of its 2,100+ fleet of fighters and bombers, none of it's nuclear-power surface ships and submarines, and -- most importantly of all -- every one of it's 7,000+ nuclear weapons ... more than the entire rest of the world combined. And this war has brought the world closer to global thermonuclear disaster than at any point in human history, Cold War years included. For what -- to prove a point that NATO has a right to expand into Ukraine? You'll need a better argument than that for converting a billion people into radioactive vapor.

Two things you forget to mention:

1: The M1s we sent to Ukraine were *significantly* down-revved in capabilities due to export concerns. Granted, the MBT doctrine is probably obsolete in the age of mass UAVs, but tanks still have a significant role as breakthrough forces (as you see when Russia fails at mass infantry charges against fortified positions)

2: The reluctance to provide Ukraine the required air power to contest the air significantly limits what they can do operationally.

Also, Ukraine moved away from Russia for *exactly* reasons like this; and any negotiations between NATO and Ukraine are, frankly, none of Russia's business. Maybe don't continually meddle in your neighbors affairs if you don't want them joining alliances against you? Just a thought.

Finally, I argue the past two decades of allowing Putin to do whatever he wanted in the region is what brought us to this point. Be it in Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus, and so on, he was allowed to put pro-Putin leaders in place with no consequence. He figured there would be continued inaction with Ukraine, due to the west not doing anything previously. Which goes back to my point: It was inaction, not action, that brought us here.

 

[Endymio]

Not quite technically correct. While Russian troop counts are up, the overwhelming majority are conscripts with little to no training

Oops! Due to Russia's mandatory conscript system -- the same Israel uses -- their troops have always had "little to no training". Prior to the war, more than 90% of their troops served only 12 months or less, and none had ever seen actual combat. Thanks to Joe, however, all that's changed. More than 50% of the Russian military has now seen two full years of active combat.

Secondly, those weapon systems you speak of exist to be used.

You can't be serious with this? US weapon systems exist to defend the USA. The entire reason most information about our weapons is classified is because we don't want hostile foreign powers knowing about them. Now they do. Now, Russia, China, and the rest of the world know intimate details about our most advanced weaponry.

I also note the cost of doing nothing is *not* zero,

The cost of coming to an agreement with Russia for both them and NATO to remain out of Ukraine -- the offer before the war, and when they offered to withdraw entirely from Ukraine during the failed peace talks -- is exactly zero.

1: The M1s we sent to Ukraine were *significantly* down-revved in capabilities due to export concerns.

Utterly disingenuous of you. We removed some advanced targeting capabilities. We didn't weaken their armor in any way. Had we sent entirely unaltered M1s, they'd still be being taken out by $500 drones.

I'll repeat the point: the "tank" is useless in modern warfare.

 

[ferrellsl]

Normally, I try to avoid politics on tech sites. But, this will be fun. Trump being bombastic in his election rhetoric means little. Mexico didn't pay for a wall, at least the few miles that were built, either.

Why would they? Mexico likes to make it easy to take out their trash, or any other trash that wanders in from THEIR southern border (Guatemala and Belize for the geographically challenged). FYI, the US isn't receiving the best and brightest passing thru Mexico into the US. They're receiving wanted fugitives and societal failures who couldn't make it in their home countries so they run to the USA seeking asylum, freedom from prosecution and the free housing, food, and healthcare promised to them by the left.

 

[Endymio]

let's be clear: The right has *long* been calling for an overthrow of the government ... and a majority now support political violence.

I don't see how you managed to type that nonsense without spraining a finger. Since the 1960s at least, the perpetual mantra of the Left has been "revolution". From the 1970s "Weather Underground" (whose founder Bill Ayer later mentored Obama himself) bombing of police stations and public buildings to the 2020 BLM riots and the Seattle CHOP zone (which actually did overthrow government control in downtown Seattle for a four-month period) the drumbeat has been the same. When the SCOTUS abortion decision was leaked, several prominent Democrats -- journalist Maria Shriver and Florida AG candidate Sam Uhlfelder among them, instantly posted to social media "This is time for a revolution!" The recent antisemitic riots on US college campuses had a similar theme, with thousands of protestors demanding revolution.

Who was the assassin who came after House GOP leader Steve Scalise? A Bernie Sanders campaign volunteer. Who was the assassin who came after conservative Justice Brett Kavanaugh? A far-Left abortion rights activist. Who violently attacked Paul Pelosi in his home? A far Left Green-Party environmentalist, angered that Nancy wasn't "Left-wing" enough.

 

[Ohnooze]

All it takes is the name "Trump" and all the haters come out in droves with their trump Derangement Syndrome in overdrive.

I have no idea if he's right or wrong but I would guess he's got a lot more information on this than anyone on this board. And really most people here will say he's wrong even if he's not due to the TDS.

 

[Endymio]

Ukraine moved away from Russia for *exactly* reasons like this

Crimea voted to move away from Ukraine the same year that Ukraine voted to move away from the USSR (not Russia.). They voted the same way again in 1994, and again in 2014. You can't support self-determination for one and not the other.

and any negotiations between NATO and Ukraine are, frankly, none of Russia's business.

Any negotiations between Russia and Cuba are none of the USA's business -- yet JFK nearly starting a nuclear war over Cuba hosting Russian weapons was considered his finest hour. What right did the US have to invade Grenada because we didn't like their new government? Or Serbia? Syria? Lebanon? Iraq? Yemen? Libya?

Hypocrite much?

Be it in Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus, and so on, he was allowed to put pro-Putin leaders in place with no consequence ... Putin will not stop trying to expand.

Oops! Your geography is confused. Chechnya's been part of Russia since long before the US even existed. And when Georgia attacked Russian troops in South Ossetia, Russia counter-attacked, rampaged around the country for a couple months to prove a point -- then withdrew entirely. The "expansionist" myth wouldn't fool a small child.

As for installing leaders favorable to your country, I think the fact that US Asst. Secretary Victoria Nuland had hand-picked Petro Poroshenko -- the so-called 'Butcher of Donbass' -- to lead Ukraine even before their Maiden Revolution, I don't believe you have much room to complain.

 

[kiwigraeme]

Trump the adjudicated rapist by a civil jury had the worst economic record of any modern president on objective measures . He has stolen from charities he set up , run multiple companies into the ground , frauded the tax payers of USA and small businesses, laughed about disable vets . pull huge amounts of Troops out of Afganistan to leave a death trap for new admin . Mock disabled people, made jokes about Pelosi husband being attacked, encourage violence from his supporters - you know what to do with your guns hey

This sleazeball who sleeps with prostitutes while his wife has just given birth to his son

You want to trust him

USA chip business only has themselves to blame .
Trump supporters complaint about EV subsidies endlessly but don't complain about subsidies to USA Chip business or to oil and gas subsidies which indirectly subsidise ICE vehicles.
One of them tells us to learn economics as Corporations don't pay tax , but pass it on to us
We aren't all watching rage bait fox news getting angrier and angrier about EV subsidies
We are not stupid schmucks to believe in trickle down BS

So if corporations like big Pharma who he loves and never criticises didn't pay tax or duties we would get that all passed on to us !!! yeah right lol

MAGA are inherently dishonest and fearful , all the problems are because of everyone else , other types of people are scary . Putin is wonderful.
Trump is the Chamberlain of today - he wants to give Ukraine to Putin as a pay back
and Taiwan to China for pay back to his families grifting there , especially his daughter who made a lot of money from freebies from China

Trump wants insults europeans/NATO , Japan , Taiwan, Mexico the biggest trading partner and loves North Korea, Russia , Saudi Arabia.
MAGA don't care, but I think they forget have much The USA was hated under Trump, tourism dropped

Protectionism is ultimately stupid and the cake gets smaller , you increase more economic migrants and a smaller consumer base. But MAGA will love it.
Taiwan sells motherboards. chips and buys USA entertainment etc , see how it works

Never respect or trust anyone who can not find fault in their arguments or side. Do what I do , ignore and don't read followups
USA has always tended to protectionism , it's the way their democracy works , midwest farmers vote , Taiwanese do not
NZ in the 1980s kick US nuclear ships out , Canada and Australia did not , USA asked Australia and Canada not to trade wheat with USSR , one month later USA sold it's biggest wheat shipment to The USA

Europe, Australia, Canada, NZ etc have came an fought in multiple USA wars/engagements
Remember that. Russia and China never have. So know as a maga supporter you are spitting in the faces of your friends you have came to your aid in places like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc

 

[ferrellsl]

Trump the adjudicated rapist by a civil jury had the worst economic record of any modern president on objective measures . He has stolen from charities he set up , run multiple companies into the ground , frauded the tax payers of USA and small businesses, laughed about disable vets . pull huge amounts of Troops out of Afganistan to leave a death trap for new admin . Mock disabled people, made jokes about Pelosi husband being attacked, encourage violence from his supporters - you know what to do with your guns hey

This sleazeball who sleeps with prostitutes while his wife has just given birth to his son

You want to trust him

USA chip business only has themselves to blame .
Trump supporters complaint about EV subsidies endlessly but don't complain about subsidies to USA Chip business or to oil and gas subsidies which indirectly subsidise ICE vehicles.
One of them tells us to learn economics as Corporations don't pay tax , but pass it on to us
We aren't all watching rage bait fox news getting angrier and angrier about EV subsidies
We are not stupid schmucks to believe in trickle down BS

So if corporations like big Pharma who he loves and never criticises didn't pay tax or duties we would get that all passed on to us !!! yeah right lol

MAGA are inherently dishonest and fearful , all the problems are because of everyone else , other types of people are scary . Putin is wonderful.
Trump is the Chamberlain of today - he wants to give Ukraine to Putin as a pay back
and Taiwan to China for pay back to his families grifting there , especially his daughter who made a lot of money from freebies from China

Trump wants insults europeans/NATO , Japan , Taiwan, Mexico the biggest trading partner and loves North Korea, Russia , Saudi Arabia.
MAGA don't care, but I think they forget have much The USA was hated under Trump, tourism dropped

Protectionism is ultimately stupid and the cake gets smaller , you increase more economic migrants and a smaller consumer base. But MAGA will love it.
Taiwan sells motherboards. chips and buys USA entertainment etc , see how it works

Never respect or trust anyone who can not find fault in their arguments or side. Do what I do , ignore and don't read followups
USA has always tended to protectionism , it's the way their democracy works , midwest farmers vote , Taiwanese do not
NZ in the 1980s kick US nuclear ships out , Canada and Australia did not , USA asked Australia and Canada not to trade wheat with USSR , one month later USA sold it's biggest wheat shipment to The USA

Europe, Australia, Canada, NZ etc have came an fought in multiple USA wars/engagements
Remember that. Russia and China never have. So know as a maga supporter you are spitting in the faces of your friends you have came to your aid in places like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc

With a response that lengthy, you're the one who should worry about sprained fingers. Triggered much?

 

[DrSuess]

That is pretty rich coming from a guy that doesn't pay his debts. I guess everyone has to pay except for Trump.

 

[Endymio]

That is pretty rich coming from a guy that doesn't pay his debts. I guess everyone has to pay except for Trump.

What sort of repressed juvenile drive forces Leftists to spread disinformation? If you're referring to the media's attacks on Trump Org for "being sued by contractors", learn something about real estate. I built one single-family home and that embroiled me in three separate lawsuits from the 50+ various sub- and sub-sub contractors involved. Build a few billion-dollar skyscrapers and you'll have several thousand lawsuits. That's why the court system exists. Wrong someone without cause, and you'll be forced to pay in full, plus interest, fees, court costs, and possibly further damages as well.

And please, no guff about "the little guy can't afford" the process. In New York, any contractor or sub can file a mechanic's lien for $30 -- even against a billion-dollar skyscraper.

 

[Puiu]

Learn about your subject before attempting to debate it. As the US head of European Command recently testified to Congress, the Russia military today is larger, stronger, and far more capable today than it was two years ago. They've gained invaluable information about US tactics and weapons systems, information they've been sharing with China. Total personnel count has risen from 1.02M troops to 1.35M -- and those troops are far better trained today than they were in 2022. And after 30+ years of budget declines, Russia is once again dramatically boosting defense budgets. Way to go, Joe.

And stop the "10% of our military budget" nonsense. As of May 2024, total US aid to Ukraine was $175B, and rising fast. That figure doesn't count indirect costs from training Ukrainian troops, logistics support, nor all the intel missions flown and spy-satellite retasks we've done on Ukraine's behalf. Claiming this monstrous figure is somehow 'trivial' is beyond absurd.

As for the idiocy about Russia losing a large number of tanks: this war has shown just how useless tanks are in modern warfare. The M1 Abrams MBTs we sent to Ukraine were supposed to "change the face of the war". Instead, Russia immediately destroyed six of these $10M behemoths using nothing but $500 drones -- and Ukraine immediately retired them from combat. Russia's only lost about 80 of its 2,100+ fleet of fighters and bombers, none of it's nuclear-power surface ships and submarines, and -- most importantly of all -- every one of it's 7,000+ nuclear weapons ... more than the entire rest of the world combined. And this war has brought the world closer to global thermonuclear disaster than at any point in human history, Cold War years included. For what -- to prove a point that NATO has a right to expand into Ukraine? You'll need a better argument than that for converting a billion people into radioactive vapor.

Nothing he said is nonsense. In FY 2024, the Department of Defense (DOD) had $2.13 Trillion distributed among its 6 sub-components.

As for the russian military being stronger now than before, that's just false. Complete bollocks. They just bought drones and missiles from Iran and North Korea and it's the only effective tech they have.

They also sent hundreds of thousand of men to die. The whole "they're better trained now" is just BS as their training amounts to a few weeks of peeling potatoes. They have on paper more people in the army, but that's only because they raised the drafting age.

And considering the weapons sent to Ukraine, they learned nothing about US's important technologies.

"Russia's only lost about 80 of its 2,100+ fleet of fighters and bombers" - no, they lost about 10% of their fleet. when they first invaded Ukraine they lost about two thirds of what they used (so around 100-150). Since then it grew to somewhere between 200 and 300 depending on which russian or Ukrainian reports you believe. For the rest of their fleet, their readiness is abysmal at best. Most of them are either for only long rage missions or can just operate inside russian territory because of poor effectiveness and questionable quality.

"For what -- to prove a point that NATO has a right to expand into Ukraine?" - how about just simply defending human rights from an oppressor and child murderer? wtf is wrong with you?

 

[Endymio]

Nothing he said is nonsense. In FY 2024, the Department of Defense (DOD) had $2.13 Trillion distributed among its 6 sub-components.

Oops! you misread your own Google hit. This is from the US DOD website:

"The Defense Department today laid out details of its $849.8 billion budget request, which is expected to fund operations during fiscal year 2025."

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-S...equest-provides-45-raise-for-service-members/

Even worse is that figure includes requested funding for Ukraine. Before the war, the US DOD was spending only $715B per year.

While the figures seem huge, over 70% is for salaries, pensions, and healthcare for veterans, and more than half the remainder on operations. Depending on how it's defined, the US spends only about $100B - $150B a year on weapons, munitions, and training -- less than what we've already given Ukraine.

As for the russian military being stronger now than before, that's just false. Complete bollocks

The US military disagrees with you. From EUCOMM Commander General Cavoli, testimony to Congress:

"Much of the Russian military has not been negatively affected ... Russia is reconstituting that force far faster than our initial estimates suggested. The Army is actually now larger — by 15 percent — than it was when it invaded Ukraine. The Air Force has lost very little... The Navy has lost one ship...."

The four-star general told senators that Russia has also replenished its heavy tank losses on the battlefield and now operates as many tanks in Ukraine as it did during the beginning of the full conflict.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/26/politics/russia-forces-ukraine-war-cavoli/index.html

This is also the same hearing that Rep. Don Bacon stated that, in a future hypothetical conflict with China, the US would run out of certain critical munitions in less than one week's time, due to stockpiles being emptied into Ukraine.

20230426 Full Committee Hearing: U.S. Military Posture and National Security Challenges in Europe

Learn more:

www.youtube.com

how about just simply defending human rights from an oppressor and child murderer? wtf is wrong with you?

What is wrong with you? The UN, the EU, and even the US Congress condemned Kiev for its relentless shelling of civilians in Donbass, and for allowing paramilitary neo-Nazi groups to attack, drive out, and kill the ethic Russian Jews there, all in the name of "ethnic purity" for Ukraine. Where were your crocodile tears then?