E-waste or Linux? Charities face tough choices as Windows 10 support ends

[yRaz]

I did switch to Linux awhile ago and it was worth the effort. If you look at phone/tablets or chrome books, there are plenty of people already using "Linux" and it's fine. There is a browser based solution for pretty much everything today so outside of specific software that people need for productivity purposes, Linux is fine. Most machines today only purpose is to open a browser.

So what's the solution? well, I don't. I got tired of being beholden to subscriptions and not owning my device so I had a different set of reasons for switching. It wasn't exactly easy, but I enjoyed it as an intellectual exercise. Now, Windows feels more foreign to me than a Linux machine.

Not everyone wants to put in that effort and I can understand that. The other side to this is that there are plenty of machines that can just be a "window" to a browser on any operating system. So many things are done in the cloud today that choosing a local operating system to interact with it is nearly irrelevant. Sure, you could put Linux on these machines and no one would really be able to tell the difference. While that is technically a solution, the real problem is that it shouldn't have to be a solution. TPM has shown itself to not be nearly as secure as it was originally advertised and MS is basically giving Windows licsenses away. They don't sell their own hardware so I'm really curious as to what they stand to gain by doubling down on this. I see this as potentionally doing more harm to MS than good. They're twisting the customers arm to either buy a new PC or explore alternative operating systems. The amount of people who will explore other operating systems as a solution is non-zero. That, and many of these computers will end up "recycled" in developing countries where people can't afford new PCs. This has the potential to make Linux peoples first operating system. What is the long term impact of that? What impact will this have on the state of Windows and Linux in 10 years? Out of the billions of people in the world, I'd estimate that only about half a billion have the financial resources to upgrade to W11 hardware. However, out of that half billion, how many will saying "I can better use this money somewhere else, maybe giving this Linux thing a try before I upgrade is a good idea?"

 

[penn919]

People might call this rage bait, but I don't see anything here that hasn't been reported on for months. There's been talk about the massive E-waste tsunami ever since the requirements for Windows 11 were announced. A lot of people start bitching every time they hear "Linux" when it's Microsoft that's refusing to give certain users another choice (officially). Joe Schmo has a perfectly working desktop with an 1800X, 32GBDDR4, RTX 4070 ti, 2TB NVME SSD and Microsoft tells him to pound sand. What? Now you expect him to go out of his way to force his way back into the Microsoft's ecosystem? Give me a break. Every tech journalist has an obligation to dedicate a mention of Linux when writing on this topic. It certainly can be argued (as it has in this article) that the Linux route is the more practical option. Linux isn't what it was a decade ago. Distro's like Linux Mint are ready for common users every bit as much as ChromeOS, MacOS, or Windows 11 ARM. Let the people hear the truth.

 

[lesmic]

0Patch can save the day. It will continue with security patching for Windows 10 after Microsoft drops support. Free account is available for basic patching of security vulnerability.

 

[hahahanoobs]

Linux is waiting like a vulture for Windows to die so it can finally eat.

 

[daffy duck]

This isn't a real problem because it's extremely simple to install Win11 on pre-11 hardware. All you have to do is clone a drive from a PC that already has 11 on it and then boot from that drive in a pre-11 PC. There are other ways to do it, but this way will always work.

LOL, 90% of people are totally computer illiterate and wouldn't know the first thing about upgrading an OS let alone finding a non-TPM install or even what that means. Also doing a Win 11 install upgrade rather than disk reformat fresh install, is also a no-go which most people wouldn't know about or be warned about by M$.

I'm doing my own ~90% debloated install of Windows 11 using autounattend.xml, with no copilot BS, no telemetry, no Xbox, Skype, etc etc etc and will run StartX or similar. I would move to Linux in a heartbeat if all the photo processing software I used had Linux ports, which they do not.

 

[Kirby1]

LOL, 90% of people are totally computer illiterate and wouldn't know the first thing about upgrading an OS let alone finding a non-TPM install or even what that means. Also doing a Win 11 install upgrade rather than disk reformat fresh install, is also a no-go which most people wouldn't know about or be warned about by M$.

I'm doing my own ~90% debloated install of Windows 11 using autounattend.xml, with no copilot BS, no telemetry, no Xbox, Skype, etc etc etc and will run StartX or similar. I would move to Linux in a heartbeat if all the photo processing software I used had Linux ports, which they do not.

Yea most people wouldn't know, but someone recycling PCs probably would.

 

[maxxcool7421]

The license would validate.

In mass the easiest way to setup an OS is to clone the same fresh image over and over.

The point here is that anyone can take a hard drive or cloned image from a windows 11 era PC and move it to a window 10 era PC and it will work just fine, activated and all. So if people want to use windows 11 on older hardware for recycling, they can.

And yes there are other ways to do this.

Sure then pay 250$ per license violation each month forever if caught

 

[Watzupken]

Linux used to be an OS that comes with a fairly steep learning curve, but they are a lot easier to use now. For example, I switched to Linux Mint and quickly adapted to it due to its simplicity. There may be some cases where one may need to use Terminal to install something or do something more complex. But for simply day to day use to serve the web, do some work, video calls, play games on Steam and other platforms, etc, they work very well. The only hurdle I feel is one's willingness to give it a try because a lot of people always claim that they will struggle without Windows. But in reality, their phones does not run Windows but yet they could adapt to it.

 

[rugbysta]

The author Sky Jacobs should be more informed - you can easily install Windows 11 on "unsupported" hardware by using one of 3 methods:

1. Open registry editor, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\MoSetup and set a new DWORD (32-bit) value: AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU to 1. Now, mount the Windows ISO file as a virtual drive. Run the setup file inside and begin the installation; or else

2. Insert the Windows Installer USB flash drive into the computer and boot from it. When you get to the language selection screen, press Shift + F10 to open Command Prompt. Type in: regedit to open the Registry Editor. In HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup add a new key LabConfig and inside it set new DWORD (32-bit) values: BypassTPMCheck and BypassSecureBootCheck to 1; or else

3. Use Rufus to make a bootable Windows Installer USB drive.

It should be straightforward for any PC refurbishing organization. You should tell people how to install Windows 11 (or Linux, it's even a better idea!) on old hardware instead of throwing away working PCs and producing massive amount of e-waste.

And don't scare people into paying an imaginary additional license fee to use a legal copy of Windows 11 on their own hardware. This is untrue.

 

[Kirby1]

Sure then pay 250$ per license violation each month forever if caught

uhh... no, that's not how it would work if a license was invalidated. But that wouldn't happen on a recycled PC because they already have windows licenses. They would activate with their original legit licenses that Microsoft keeps track of. Windows 7,8,10,11 doesn't matter. All of these licenses work for a windows 11 validation. Once a system has been activated once, that license stays with it, and it doesn't matter if the OS is updated. That's just how it is. It's not a violation, that's just how Microsoft license work. Windows 10 and 11 were both free upgrades from 7 after all.

 

[Brickwizard]

The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he, by peddling second-rate technology, who led them into it in the first place
Douglas Adams [1995]


I have been a Linux user for over 20 years, I run several different distributions, I always have one version of Mint as this is probably the easiest to install and simplest to use for the beginner, and is my reference distribution when advising/helping newbies to move into Linux,, I prefer Parrot or MX,
I have a full set of windows installation media from W3 to W10 which I have accrued over the years for repairing other people's machines, [which I now only do for friends and family] all I can say is installing each as they were released the more I felt glad I gave up on Windows.

just to finish a couple of questions that comes to mind, Why is Microsoft using Linux servers for its cloud not Windows server and why are they now making Linux simple for their users to access WSL etc?

 

[pnntmp]

This article is about a 'problem' that doesn't exist.
Windows 11 can be installed on any computer capable of running Win7 / 10. It's ridiculously easy and the web is full with info, videos and everything.

I don't understand what charities has to do with it.
If you give someone a computer, it's their job to deal with it further - install or update OSs and all. Doing that is an opportunity for the recipients to learn something by solving real world problems, that's valuable experience.
It has nothing to do with e-waste either.

 

[nismo91]

I hate these types of articles.

1. you can install windows 11 on windows 10 machines just fine. as a matter of fact the upgrade should still be free of charge. all you have to do is use rufus.

2. the youngest unsupported CPU from Intel (Kaby Lake) is now 8 years old. no reputable business will run or want to keep running on >8 years old CPU. this leaves personal users.

3. personal users who won't spend anything to upgrade in 8 years, can still run windows 11, just without the TPM. beggars can't be choosers.

4. e-waste will still be generated each day no matter what. I bet an average person would generate more e-waste in a span of 8 years than a typical size of ATX desktop tower. mobile phones, earbuds, chargers, cables, dongles, etc.

5. lot of people cry about their >8 years old PC being unsupported but they're willing to pay for subscription or microtransactions that exceeds the price of a new PC from the past 8 years.

This means many relatively recent and powerful computers are ineligible for the upgrade, despite having ample RAM and storage.

wait what? 8 years old are considered recent? have you been incarcerated or what?

Tom's points out that charities like PCs for People are taking steps to avoid this issue. CEO Casey Sorensen explained that they discontinued distributing Windows 10 a year before the cutoff and now focus on Linux Mint for older systems. "We will distribute Linux laptops that are 6th or 7th gen. If we distribute a Windows laptop, it will be 8th gen or newer," Sorensen tells the publication.

PCs for People refurbishes 140,000 PCs annually, offering affordable options to low-income individuals and sending older units to recyclers.

the keyword is "offering affordable options". they wouldn't install windows 11 with TPM disabled to resell but they also wouldn't sell to recyclers anyway. I mean if you let me have a dozen of working 6th gen intel laptops for $60 I would pay for that and the shipping and I will recycle it myself.

As charities navigate the challenges of obsolete systems, they must balance the need for secure computing with the environmental impact of disposal. Whatever path they choose, it's clear that many users will continue running Windows 10 beyond its support lifecycle, leaving them vulnerable to emerging threats.

guess what, people who are connected to the internet faced threat everyday. an average tech illiterate person would be subject to phishing from scam emails, intrusive ads, fake AI videos and many other things long before they became a victim of zero-day attack on an outdated OS.

 

[disinfect8280]

People might call this rage bait, but I don't see anything here that hasn't been reported on for months. There's been talk about the massive E-waste tsunami ever since the requirements for Windows 11 were announced. A lot of people start bitching every time they hear "Linux" when it's Microsoft that's refusing to give certain users another choice (officially). Joe Schmo has a perfectly working desktop with an 1800X, 32GBDDR4, RTX 4070 ti, 2TB NVME SSD and Microsoft tells him to pound sand. What? Now you expect him to go out of his way to force his way back into the Microsoft's ecosystem? Give me a break. Every tech journalist has an obligation to dedicate a mention of Linux when writing on this topic. It certainly can be argued (as it has in this article) that the Linux route is the more practical option. Linux isn't what it was a decade ago. Distro's like Linux Mint are ready for common users every bit as much as ChromeOS, MacOS, or Windows 11 ARM. Let the people hear the truth.

You don't even need such an old processor. My son has an 5800X with 3080 GPU (hardly a slow configuration) and Windows tells him it is incompatible with 11. He is going to go with Linux (SteamOS if released in time). It might be the B450 motherboard and TPM nonsense.

 

[Brickwizard]

He is going to go with Linux (SteamOS if released in time)

He doesn't have to wait, he can install steam to any 64 bit Linux [on a suitable machine] Most major distributions include it in the repositories. [what youngsters call app store]

addendum, he may like to read.. https://itsfoss.com/linux-gaming-guide/

 

[demonicmaniac]

It's wonderful how people completely ignore legality issues here for charities - or assume only poor countries require old hardware donations, completely detached from the reality many people face in first world nations.
I have started giving people cheap edu machines with chromeos flex for < 4gb ram machines. Linux still requires updates and a distro that does provide security backports and stuff and active support in many cases. While I am a linux only person for decades it's certainly not for everybody and chromeos flex running is enough for most folks for email and browser and runs fine on ancient netbooks.

 

[yannus]

Q6600, 4 gigs of ram working smoothly for my kids to surf and study- on linux. The only non original parts are the ssd and the psu. 16 years old !

 

[Brickwizard]

Q6600, 4 gigs of ram working smoothly for my kids to surf and study- on linux.

Ideal machine from 2007, the CPU was no slouch back in its heyday, and although its only SATA2 swapping out the plate spinner for an SSD was a wise move, aprox 10x faster read/write speed [depending on SSD spec]

 

[schwaggins]

"I installed Linux & now other Linux users up vote me for it, all 5 of them"

Or

"Microsoft forced me to upgrade so now I try to force everyone else to use linux"

 

[Brickwizard]

Microsoft forced me to upgrade so now I try to force everyone else to use linux

Microsoft never forces anyone to change, Responsible Linux users will not force anyone to Chang, for unlike those who look through rose-tinted Windows, we recognise you have a choice and the decision must be yours especially if your too lazy to learn another system, most of us are too busy helping those who ask for help, to wipe your rear.

 

[techstrike]

Solution: install Windows 11 on QEMU, to emulate supported hardware and get all updates, even on an unsupported host computer.

 

[Vanderlinde]

Answer is simple,

https://atlasos.net/

 

[bexwhitt]

I put mint linux on a 2017 HP AOI I gave to my brother in law for his use email and web browsing, it's fine and installed without a hitch. It has a TPM2 module but the CPU is not compatible anyway as M$ say it would probably be less stable. The couple who I got it from just shrugged and got a new one when I said it would be out of support at the end of the year.

 

[RudyBob]

MS should take their thumb out of their a_s

 

[cacarr]

" ... such as Microsoft Office and Slack ..."

Slack has a Linux client.