E-waste or Linux? Charities face tough choices as Windows 10 support ends

[dualkelly]

This is silly windows 10 isnt going to magically stop working. At my job there are still windows xp embedded running equipment that is used in hospitals around the country.

 

[Loadedaxe]

I do IT for a makerspace, and this is a real headache for us. Switching to Linux isn't an option for most of our systems; they're used to run control software for tools, the software is Windows-only (except for the 3D printers, where good Linux software is available and we're already using it), and since it runs external peripherals it doesn't tend to work with WINE. We're faced with somehow coming up with replacements for a bunch of systems like that, which means spending money we don't have to replace systems that are still functional.

We also have a bunch of older computers that used to be the primary CAD systems until we recently got a grant for new ones. Alas, they are 7th gen, so no 11 for them. Otherwise they're still quite usable here and now; i7-7700 CPUs and 16 GB RAM, but we can't use them to replace the even older control computers.

TPM 2.0 was removed from requirements, as long as your board supports secure boot.
I have it running on a MSI Z270M Mortar MB and a i7-6700k just fine.

You wont get security patches regarding TPM 2.0 but you will for everything else.

Microsoft Loosens Windows 11 Install Requirements, TPM 2.0 Not Needed Anymore

Microsoft has finally opened the iron gate guarding the Windows 11 upgrade for systems running incompatible hardware, including systems lacking TPM 2.0. This is excellent news for users who are rocking older systems or have been without the TPM 2.0 module in their system but want to upgrade to...

www.techpowerup.com

Edit: If you are concerned, you can always get a TPM 2.0 Module from Amazon for your mb as well, they are ~$20.

 

[disinfect8280]

He doesn't have to wait, he can install steam to any 64 bit Linux [on a suitable machine] Most major distributions include it in the repositories. [what youngsters call app store]

addendum, he may like to read.. https://itsfoss.com/linux-gaming-guide/

Thanks. Yes for sure. That's what I am doing with Fedora. SteamOS is just an immutable Arch that's not rolling release. I haven't messed with immutable so I don't know if it is a pain to install non-flatpack apps but at least you can't brick your OS and easily rollback if there's issues. I think the benefit to him is Nvidia support should be baked in SteamOS once they officially release for desktops. If it's not in time for Win10 EOL, I'll just tell him to switch to Silverblue or Kinoite (though I think KDE is janky). It's not that hard to install Nvidia drivers AFAIK.

 

[disinfect8280]

Yeah, I don't doubt what you're saying, but the 5800X is definitely supported by Windows 11. You might have to enable TPM in bios or convert his partition table to GPT; however, I won't get in the way of your son switching to Linux though. Right on.

That makes sense - I'll let him know but he probably doesn't want the spyware/ad riddled OS anyway.

 

[xpusostomos]

Erm slack is on Linux, and also it's a web app... Though it doesn't strike me as an app poor people want, I thought it was for business.

 

[xpusostomos]

The most ridiculous forced upgrade in history! This time I'm protesting in my own way. As long as W10 continues to function, I will use it. I have an image and all my files are backed up in multiple ways. I am very experienced - I ran a computer business for over 20 years. I've not had a single virus over that time period - and I've even connected infected drives to my PC for diagnostics and virus elimination many times. I have no fear.

For what I use my PC for, I don't at all care if I eventually do get hit by something. I will recognize and eliminate the threat one way or another. Bring 'em on haxors, exploit bags, drive encryptors, etc....MS I'm resisting - so you and the attackers can both KMA!

The most ridiculous forced upgrade in history! This time I'm protesting in my own way. As long as W10 continues to function, I will use it. I have an image and all my files are backed up in multiple ways. I am very experienced - I ran a computer business for over 20 years. I've not had a single virus over that time period - and I've even connected infected drives to my PC for diagnostics and virus elimination many times. I have no fear.

For what I use my PC for, I don't at all care if I eventually do get hit by something. I will recognize and eliminate the threat one way or another. Bring 'em on haxors, exploit bags, drive encryptors, etc....MS I'm resisting - so you and the attackers can both KMA!

I agree it's a bit overblown, but when something bad does come it will hit 50 million computers at once.

 

[xpusostomos]

I switched to Linux when Windows XP came out and Im fine... Play games on Steam, surf the internet, use e-mail, create music, pictures, even use it in my day-to-day job.

I even use Slack, Signal, and Discord natively on Linux. There are downloadable applications for these on the vendor site for Linux and in the Linux distribution's app page..

Plex, Spotify, my wife even uses the iTunes application on her Linux KDE desktop - so does her mom.

MS Office 365 can be used without issue on Linux with a browser. But there are great alternatives for NORMAL users like Libreoffice, Openoffice (Might be older releases), OnlyOffice, and so on.

My wife, mother, tons of friends and allot of others that use Linux too these days. Just look on Reddit in any of the Linux subreddits and the linux_gaming subreddit. People are migrating to Linux in droves and asking questions.

There really is no excuse for normal users to be able to use Linux anymore. Sure, there are edge cases, but for 70% - 80% (Or higher) of the eWaste that is coming this year - Linux will be great for those cases!

This year just may be the year of the Linux desktop, thanks mostly to Microsoft LOL

iTunes.... Really

 

[nafhan]

Slack literally has Linux releases, and Slack and MS Office both have pretty good web apps that work as well on Linux as they do on other platforms with modern web browsers.

 

[BadThad]

I agree it's a bit overblown, but when something bad does come it will hit 50 million computers at once.

And I'll back and running in less than an hour as if nothing ever happened.

 

[loki1944]

Why is this even a debate? Just put linux on it, like how a lot of laptops are sold new, and be done with it. the user can switch OS later if they want to.

Never happen; too much hassle vs windows

 

[mojadramaone]

Or just download Rufus and ANY version of Windows 11.iso from Microsoft. Here you will have the choice to remove TPM and other unnecessary annoyances. Once installed all updates will autoadjust to your configuration.

 

[Brickwizard]

Thanks. Yes for sure. That's what I am doing with Fedora. SteamOS is just an immutable Arch that's not rolling release. I haven't messed with immutable so I don't know if it is a pain to install non-flatpack apps but at least you can't brick your OS and easily rollback if there's issues. I think the benefit to him is Nvidia support should be baked in SteamOS once they officially release for desktops. If it's not in time for Win10 EOL, I'll just tell him to switch to Silverblue or Kinoite (though I think KDE is janky). It's not that hard to install Nvidia drivers AFAIK.

Perhaps he would o better off joining the forums of Linux org and ask questions on the gaming boards, we have several hardened gamers there.... https://www.linux.org/forums/linux-gaming.202/

 

[cyberblogger]

This is silly windows 10 isnt going to magically stop working. At my job there are still windows xp embedded running equipment that is used in hospitals around the country.

isn't it strange the Microsoft consumer heard mentality?
Its not like programs are going to force you to buy it and if it does, I would recommend replacing the software. What I find interesting 2023 server has the same system kernel as win 11 and will dance circles around it all day. So I wouldn't want to degrade my system by updating windows 10. Much less Windows 10 isn't that great either. 2019 server runs much better as well.

 

[SkyMC]

I see we're going for virtue signalling and rage bait today. Let's see if we can get all the usual comments out of the way.

"Micro$oft can shove Windows 11. I'm still running Windows 7/10 are have no plans on upgrading."
"Doesn't affect me. I've been running Linux for X years and never looked back"
"Typical corporate greed punishing the little guy"
"Windows hasn't been good since Windows XP"

I've probably missed some classics, but oh well.

How about : "I install windows 11 on MBR partition, without safe boot and UEFI, also no TPM in sight and without RUFUS to bypass it nor registry tweaks, because I can"

 

[SkyMC]

I have over 20 pc's I forced over to win 11 that technically are not supported. I will say though for normal use many 4 core or under pcs's are very slow today and are getting long in tooth. ssd upgrade is a must. Even then win10 and win 11 cpu usage using normal app jumps many time to 100% . I personally dont see why people think they should support an os for almost forever? Also if smart enough just force load win11 if you need windows support.

I have over 20 pc's I forced over to win 11 that technically are not supported. I will say though for normal use many 4 core or under pcs's are very slow today and are getting long in tooth. ssd upgrade is a must. Even then win10 and win 11 cpu usage using normal app jumps many time to 100% . I personally dont see why people think they should support an os for almost forever? Also if smart enough just force load win11 if you need windows support.

This is the way ! Had windows 11 on am3 and fm1 platforms as well as on intel i5 2500 build.

 

[disinfect8280]

This is the way ! Had windows 11 on am3 and fm1 platforms as well as on intel i5 2500 build.

If you read Microsoft's statement (License or TOS whatever) it implies that if you use unsupported hardware, they may or may not send you updates and support may end randomly at any moment. If you don't mind that, have at it.

 

[bandit8623]

If you read Microsoft's statement (License or TOS whatever) it implies that if you use unsupported hardware, they may or may not send you updates and support may end randomly at any moment. If you don't mind that, have at it.

If you go to October you won't get updates staying on Windows 10.... So what move do you think is worth it?

 

[dualkelly]

If you go to October you won't get updates staying on Windows 10.... So what move do you think is worth it?

You dont need updates. I still have a windows 7 machine and it works fine without an update never once had a problem with spyware or adware or viruses. The many hospitals I have worked at still use windows xp embedded in alot of machines that delivers care to millions of people a year. MS has brainwashed a bunch of people making you afraid not to have updates. Use your brain when browsing the net and dont open emails from people you dont know and you will be fine.

 

[bandit8623]

You dont need updates. I still have a windows 7 machine and it works fine without an update never once had a problem with spyware or adware or viruses. The many hospitals I have worked at still use windows xp embedded in alot of machines that delivers care to millions of people a year. MS has brainwashed a bunch of people making you afraid not to have updates. Use your brain when browsing the net and dont open emails from people you dont know and you will be fine.

You are not an average user. You have to remember it's geared towards people that click stuff. And bad firewalls

 

[penn919]

This is the way ! Had windows 11 on am3 and fm1 platforms as well as on intel i5 2500 build.

Keep in mind that Windows 11 on unsupported hardware will not be automatically updated to new feature releases. Also, AM3 is only compatible up to Windows 11 23H2. 24H2 is entirely incompatible with AMD K10 CPUs.

 

[Shirley Dulcey]

People might call this rage bait, but I don't see anything here that hasn't been reported on for months. There's been talk about the massive E-waste tsunami ever since the requirements for Windows 11 were announced. A lot of people start bitching every time they hear "Linux" when it's Microsoft that's refusing to give certain users another choice (officially). Joe Schmo has a perfectly working desktop with an 1800X, 32GBDDR4, RTX 4070 ti, 2TB NVME SSD and Microsoft tells him to pound sand. What? Now you expect him to go out of his way to force his way back into the Microsoft's ecosystem? Give me a break. Every tech journalist has an obligation to dedicate a mention of Linux when writing on this topic. It certainly can be argued (as it has in this article) that the Linux route is the more practical option. Linux isn't what it was a decade ago. Distro's like Linux Mint are ready for common users every bit as much as ChromeOS, MacOS, or Windows 11 ARM. Let the people hear the truth.

Thanks to AMD and its long term support of the AM4 socket, Joe at least has a reasonably inexpensive option; he can replace that 1800X with a newer AMD processor. His AMD mainboard will probably accept CPUs all the way to the Ryzen 5000 series; he just has to install the BIOS update before swapping the processor. AMD is still making compatible processors, or he can buy an inexpensive used one.

Owners of a 7th generation Intel CPU, on the other hand, are SOL. You can't put a newer CPU into those mainboards; despite the fact that the 8th and 9th generation CPUs use the same socket, they are not compatible. They would have to replace the mainboard as well, and if they have a system from many of the major manufacturers (I'm looking at you in particular, Dell) they need a non-standard mainboard because the ones in the system use non-standard power connections.

 

[Shirley Dulcey]

Erm slack is on Linux, and also it's a web app... Though it doesn't strike me as an app poor people want, I thought it was for business.

Poor people work, and some might be at workplaces that use Slack. Some nonprofit organizations also use it, and poor people who volunteer for those organizations might use it in that context.