Fire-damaged ship carrying $401 million worth of luxury vehicles sinks into the Atlantic

[Irata]

You're remiss if you don't supply the make, model, model year, time of day, month, year, and GPS location, of each vehicle fire...

No, the point is for the purpose of this article, I.e. the ship the sank because a brand new vehicle that was sitting caught on fire.

So yes, there is a difference if your poorly maintained hooptie ICE catches on fire while driving because the fuel lines or wiring harness have gone bad or it‘s overheating or your brand new EV catches fire sitting in your garage doing nothing.

 

[captaincranky]

Yet more ocean pollution, just what we didn't need.

I expect another oil rig/pipe fault this year too.

Hey I have an idea, people should stop reproducing at such an alarming rate. Then we wouldn't need so much oil, since we'd have fewer cars, driving less miles.

 

[captaincranky]

No, the point is for the purpose of this article, I.e. the ship the sank because a brand new vehicle that was sitting caught on fire.

So yes, there is a difference if your poorly maintained hooptie ICE catches on fire while driving because the fuel lines or wiring harness have gone bad or it‘s overheating or your brand new EV catches fire sitting in your garage doing nothing.

First of all, when have you ever known me to be exactly on topic?

Second of all, I could care less about what kind of vehicles caught fire, or the circumstances thereof. A couple of the other members were locked in mortal combat over which class of cars were more likely to catch fire.

I was attempting to "defuse" the situation.

 

[WhoCaresAnymore]

I still hope there's at least a few NFT bros that were waiting on that Bentley to cash out because chances are by the time they actually can buy one the stuff will only be worth enough for them to get a used Chevrolet at best.

Thanks for the morning laugh. Wish we could put all of the crypto farmers on a boat like that and sink it.

 

[WhoCaresAnymore]

Hey I have an idea, people should stop reproducing at such an alarming rate. Then we wouldn't need so much oil, since we'd have fewer cars, driving less miles.

Ok, what's your real name? Mao Tse? lol. You never lived in the 60's and 70's where we couldn't have a car look nice because of acid rain ruining the paint. We are in the industrial age and progressing. Things are getting better and better. Changes don't happen over-night, they happen over decades and centuries.

 

[NoLifeDGenerate]

Yeah, I'm sure the materials used to build those cars really costed 400 mil. They're not overpriced at all. Bullshit

 

[scavengerspc]

So yes, there is a difference if your poorly maintained hooptie ICE catches on fire while driving because the fuel lines or wiring harness have gone bad or it‘s overheating

Those cars do not count in the stats. If they did it would be even worse for the smokers.
You're doing it again. You are writing but not reading. Told you that you would ignore the facts. Considering the much, much less likely occurrence of an EV battery fire, I'm sure everyone will be fine with them.

But for now, I would be neglecting the laws of common sense if I didnt mention that there is no evidence of what actually caused the fire yet.
The problem is your conclusions, which you have naturally jumped to.

Cargo ship carrying thousands of luxury cars to U.S. sinks in Atlantic Ocean

A Portuguese Air Force helicopter evacuated the 22 crew members when the fire first broke out, setting the ship adrift.

www.cbsnews.com

"The ship was transporting electric and non-electric vehicles, according to Portuguese authorities. Suspicion on what started the fire on Feb. 16 has fallen on lithium batteries used in electric vehicles, though authorities say they have no firm evidence about the cause".

 

[captaincranky]

Ok, what's your real name? Mao Tse? lol.

As far as you need be concerned, my name is, "captaincranky". I was born in 1948, give or take.

You never lived in the 60's and 70's where we couldn't have a car look nice because of acid rain ruining the paint.

I obviously DID live in the 60's and 70'.s. We most likely didn't "solve the acid rain issue", we most likely shipped it to China.
Even Harley-Davidson replacement parts are made in China these days.

We are in the industrial age and progressing.

The "industrial revolution" in the US, happened some odd 200 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution_in_the_United_States.
So, you're wrong again.

What we didn't have in the 60\s and 70's, is climate change, or precipitous mass extinctions of many other creatures on the planet, or both California and the Amazon rain forest being burned to cinders, and oceans consisting of mostly plastic waste.

Current times could be better described as the "technological revolution". Which for the average person means an fairly complete relinquishment of the real world, and an "exodus", into, "cyberspace". Have you ever heard the term, "detached from reality". You'll recognize it, when the next fool walks in front of your car, with their face buried in an iPhone. .

Qualifying my statement as, "if we knew then what we know now", the world would be a much better place with the 2,000,000,000 people we had then, as opposed to the 8,000,000,000 we have now".

As a prime example, wouldn't it be great if the cars of the 60's and 70's. had the emission controls and gas mileage of the ICE cars we have today?

Biologically speaking, an "apex predator" or "keystone species", can only exist as long as it has prey. And we are running out of all the, animals, trees, natural resources and other things we "prey upon", in a big, big hurry.

Changes don't happen over-night, they happen over decades and centuries.

Well Mr. Real, we are running out of that, "time to change", quite rapidly. Otherwise, there wouldn't be this immediacy to embrace EVs, or the need for, "climate control summits".

But what the hell, let's "party like it's 2022". Which literally means, "let's shove our heads up our a**es all at once". Ready...., on the count of "3".
.

 

[ZedRM]

Since you obviously know, are EVs any more dangerous than gasoline vehicles?

Yes, in many ways.

 

[scavengerspc]

Yes, in many ways.

I'm all ears.

 

[ZedRM]

I'm all ears.

Lithium batteries being very dangerous, not providing a similar range to IC, being a lot less "green" than everyone thinks... Pick one, go do your own reading. I'm not going to hold your hand...

 

[NoLifeDGenerate]

Lithium batteries being very dangerous, not providing a similar range to IC, being a lot less "green" than everyone thinks... Pick one, go do your own reading. I'm not going to hold your hand...

One of the biggest things those batteries lack is convenience. They can put up charging stations all they want and people still aren't going to go for it. People are more impatient nowadays than ever. What needs to happen is an EV design with a battery that can be easily swapped at a station. Bring back full service "gas" stations and make it quick and painless. You pull up, hand the dude a few bucks, and they swap your battery for a freshly charged one in like 2 minutes.

 

[scavengerspc]

Lithium batteries being very dangerous, not providing a similar range to IC, being a lot less "green" than everyone thinks... Pick one, go do your own reading. I'm not going to hold your hand...

Well this is easy. I have been watching and learning about EVs since the EV1. So here we go:

Lithium batteries being very dangerous

Nope, and that has certainly been covered here. Extensively.

not providing a similar range to IC

Nope, not true anymore and in fact many older vehicles can be upgraded with the current packs.

being a lot less "green" than everyone thinks

Nope. Actually, they are a lot more green than some want to believe.
Though that was not a consideration for me.

They can put up charging stations all they want and people still aren't going to go for it

Have you seen the EV sales rapid increase over the years?
People started going for it a long time ago. And the nice thing is they arent just for nerds anymore. Well, maybe the Leaf.

 

[wiyosaya]

Have you seen the EV sales rapid increase over the years?
People started going for it a long time ago. And the nice thing is they arent just for nerds anymore. Well, maybe the Leaf.

Yeah, that one was a real hoot - people are not going to go for it. When I bought my 06 Prius new, I had to wait 3-months to get it as the backlog was that long. Tesla came out of no-where, and they are experiencing quite a few sales. However, they are not the only company to have exceeded the limit on EV Tax Credits in the US. Certainly sounds like no-one is going for EVs to me, wouldn't you say so??

I'm glad you are championing the fight. I'm getting rather tired of constantly repeating myself to people who say the grid will never handle it - even though the PNNL released a report in 07 already that said that the Grid- then could already power something like 84% of all cars, SUVs, and small pickup trucks on the road.

And then there's the battery deniers - I recently read an article about Lithium-Sulfur batteries that last 10-years, have 3X the capacity of current Li-on batteries and this development is easily adapted to current manufacturing processes. Rather than continue to repeat myself twice in one day, I'll just link to the post - https://www.techspot.com/community/...of-cheaper-electric-cars.274156/#post-1950979

 

[scavengerspc]

I'm getting rather tired of constantly repeating myself to people who say the grid will never handle it - even though the PNNL released a report in 07 already that said that the Grid- then could already power something like 84% of all cars, SUVs, and small pickup trucks on the road.

I think the funniest thing of all is you can source their posts and prove them wrong, and they go on to the next topic and repeat it. AND IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE! So much for the humans' ability to learn from our mistakes.

And then there's the battery deniers

They will always exist. Some of the earliest EVs had a series of standard 12 volt lead acid batteries (the Ranger for example for one year and the EV1) and that certainly had its disadvantages. But the switch to lithium came very quickly, yet people continued complaining about the problems of those lead acid batteries almost a decade after they were discontinued in favor of the Lithium-Ion.

They whine like a newborn about how "dangerous" the batteries in an EV are, yet you know damn well they carry their phones in their pockets, purse, cars etc.

I'll just link to the post -

Wow! The dipshit brigade is strong in that thread!
I'm going to follow, but I think my favorite tidbit is

"Pollute at home and speak about clean EVs, at home, while burning fossil fuels to produce electricity for charging those "clean" EVs".

It's sad, but they believe that. Tell them that driving the average smoker pollutes far more than a full charge for an EV, and I'm sure they just kinda sit there confused and drooling.

By the way, did you know I bought a Focus EV to experiment\play with last fall?

 

[wiyosaya]

I think the funniest thing of all is you can source their posts and prove them wrong, and they go on to the next topic and repeat it. AND IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE! So much for the humans' ability to learn from our mistakes.

Tell me about it. I think they are examples of learning to make mistakes and keep repeating them while expecting something different to happen.

They will always exist. Some of the earliest EVs had a series of standard 12 volt lead acid batteries (the Ranger for example for one year and the EV1) and that certainly had its disadvantages. But the switch to lithium came very quickly, yet people continued complaining about the problems of those lead acid batteries almost a decade after they were discontinued in favor of the Lithium-Ion.

They whine like a newborn about how "dangerous" the batteries in an EV are, yet you know damn well they carry their phones in their pockets, purse, cars etc.

And then trying to tell them about Lithium-sulfur batteries, or better yet, Aluminum batteries, and I think they put their fingers in their ears and mumble Lithium, Lithium, Lithium.

Wow! The dipshit brigade is strong in that thread!

I'm going to follow, but I think my favorite tidbit is

"Pollute at home and speak about clean EVs, at home, while burning fossil fuels to produce electricity for charging those "clean" EVs".

It's sad, but they believe that. Tell them that driving the average smoker pollutes far more than a full charge for an EV, and I'm sure they just kinda sit there confused and drooling.

And don't even mention that charging an EV from the worst polluting coal plant is cleaner than the average ICE. People completely forget about all the pollution generated in between the well and the gas pump - as if it does not exist.

By the way, did you know I bought a Focus EV to experiment\play with last fall?

Cool. I'll have to take a look at the Focus EV. I am holding off getting a new vehicle until things stabilize in the marketplace a bit more. Please let me know how it works out for you.

 

[captaincranky]

Nope, not true anymore and in fact many older vehicles can be upgraded with the current packs.

Regarding this one point, you have to admit there is a significant cost to replacing an EV battery pack. Perhaps it's insurmountable to some.

 

[scavengerspc]

Regarding this one point, you have to admit there is a significant cost to replacing an EV battery pack. Perhaps it's insurmountable to some.

Absolutely true Cap, but remanufactured batteries are becoming available, though slowly. Even the first gen Tesla batteries are still going strong, so getting a dead core to repair is not easy.

In the meantime, replacing individual cells is becoming a thing now.

 

[wiyosaya]

Regarding this one point, you have to admit there is a significant cost to replacing an EV battery pack. Perhaps it's insurmountable to some.

When you consider that, at least for the NiMh pack in my 06 Prius, the lifetime on the packs is in excess of 200K miles (some have gone 300K - 500K mi), it becomes less of an issue, IMO. I've got about 110K miles on mine, and due to the salt from the snowy region where I live, the body of the car will probably go first, if I have it that long, and I doubt that I will.

I'm not much of a gearhead, but replacing an engine, or some other major mechanical part is something, from my perspective, anyway, that could come close to the cost of replacing a battery pack. I tend to think that most people would junk a vehicle, or get another, before getting a new engine, and I think the same would apply for how people would treat an EV and its battery pack.

So, I am not sure that I would consider that replacing a battery pack is really all that much of an issue. The battery pack is probably only one of a very few parts of an EV that has a limited life whereas an ICE has many more components that are subject to wear - all of which would cause the ICE to fail should those wear limits be met.

I suppose we would all like our cars to last indefinitely, however, realistically, I don't think that is a reasonable assumption.

EDIT: The battery pack issue may be more of a propaganda point from the anti-EV clan.

 

[wiyosaya]

Absolutely true Cap, but remanufactured batteries are becoming available, though slowly. Even the first gen Tesla batteries are still going strong, so getting a dead core to repair is not easy.

In the meantime, replacing individual cells is becoming a thing now.

 

[ZedRM]

Nope, and that has certainly been covered here. Extensively.

I have personally seen 2 lithium based cars burn to the ground. The accidents causing the fires would NOT have caused a fire in a IC based car. Each would have been just normal accidents.

Nope, not true anymore and in fact many older vehicles can be upgraded with the current packs.

Incorrect. The maximum range an EV has currently is 335miles. My Honda gets very close to 500. EV takes HOURS to recharge fully. My Honda takes 4 minutes to refill.

Nope. Actually, they are a lot more green than some want to believe.
Though that was not a consideration for me.

Incorrect. The power used to recharge an EV is mostly produced by fossil fuel power plants. Whether we burn fuels in power plants, or in vehicle, the ratio nearly identical. But then you have to factor in the manufacture of the battery packs for car with is VERY resource intensive. IC vehicles are no worse than EV and perform BETTER.

Have you seen the EV sales rapid increase over the years?

Ignorant people buying into nonsense marketing.

Electric vehicles are nowhere near being ready for mass adoption. They are toys meant to make the ignorant feel better about themselves and little more.

 

[ZedRM]

One of the biggest things those batteries lack is convenience. They can put up charging stations all they want and people still aren't going to go for it. People are more impatient nowadays than ever. What needs to happen is an EV design with a battery that can be easily swapped at a station. Bring back full service "gas" stations and make it quick and painless. You pull up, hand the dude a few bucks, and they swap your battery for a freshly charged one in like 2 minutes.

While those are interesting ideas, I think there would be very serious liability problems. What we need is a battery chemistry that has an energy desity 4 to 5 times greater than current lithium formulations and can fully recharge in minutes instead of hours. Until those metrics can be reached, EV is a pipe-dream.

 

[captaincranky]

Incorrect. The power used to recharge an EV is mostly produced by fossil fuel power plants. Whether we burn fuels in power plants, or in vehicle, the ratio nearly identical. But then you have to factor in the manufacture of the battery packs for car with is VERY resource intensive. IC vehicles are no worse than EV and perform BETTER

You're not taking into account "economy of scale".. Large generators are vastly more efficient than small generators. In short they get, "many more miles per gallon" Compare how many "kilowatts per gallon" you get from a small portable emergency generator. If you were forced to use one of these for any length of time, you would go broke buying gasoline for it.

A rough analogy is whole house versus window air conditioners. The EER of a window unit is about 10.5, give or take. Whole house units start at about a 14+ EER.

As for lithium availability, google "Salton sea" .

 

[scavengerspc]

I have personally seen 2 lithium based cars burn to the ground. The accidents causing the fires would NOT have caused a fire in a IC based car. Each would have been just normal accidents.

How many people have seen a vehicle fire in the US in their life? Yet you have "personally seen 2". Not just 2 vehicle fires, 2 EV fires? So I called the Little Rock fire department (Chester) and asked them. They have seen (ironically) 2 since 2015. Then I called the Pittsburgh fire Dept (East Liberty) and they have seen 1, in 2017. Congrats.
And you said, "The accidents causing the fires would NOT have caused a fire in a IC based car. Each would have been just normal accidents." I'm not even going to dignify that ridiculous comment. From a fuel tank in the rear and fuel lines that run the length of the vehicle, I can't see how you have the lack of foresight to say for sure they would not have burned.
None of them? With all the different configurations?
Do not lie to me.

My Honda gets very close to 500

I think it's a shame that I have to tell you that I was speaking strictly from averages. I never have, and still wont say that range is in the top tier of all vehicles. But strictly speaking from those averages the EVs are already very close.

EV takes HOURS to recharge fully

Really? Maybe I will give you a short period to retract that bit of......Not much time.

The power used to recharge an EV is mostly produced by fossil fuel power plants.

Sorry. Only 5% of the world falls under your very limited capacity to comprehend this subject. So take it up with Forbes.

Yes, Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal

One argument that has been made against electric vehicles is that we must decarbonise the power system first otherwise cars are no cleaner than if they use gasoline. But a new study suggests that EVs help to tackle climate change in all but the most coal-reliant countries - 95% of markets globally.

www.forbes.com

Ignorant people buying into nonsense marketing.

Where do you live? I'm curious. I am ignorant? We can discuss that. And that is coming from someone that has to lie through his teeth to make his point.

I bought a 2017 Focus EV last fall just to play around with. Are you saying as an EV owner, I still don't know the facts? Even while you say the things you have said here? You are the one buying into false EV information in the interest of pleasing your handlers.

I'm not going to say I don't give you any credit at all. You say things that are so far from the facts, and yet you stick with it. That's admirable in a way.

You need to get out of 2010.