Yes it is already known that it will be 20nm. The rest is all speculation.
I think you missed the part where it says (OEM), this is similiar to what Nvidia did with their GTX 300 series. OEMs and M parts are the ones that are getting rebranded. I won't defend this kind of rebranding system coming from any brand but as a company we really don't know what kind of preassure OEMs put on AMD or Nvidia to buy new parts for their models if they don't plan to release new products on time for them to use.
In terms of sheer price to performance, sure Crossfired 7970 or SLI'd GTX 680s will outperform it, but with that you have to wrestle with the Crossfire and SLI technologies which can be a giant hassle. Like you said, for a "single" GPU solution, it's not bad... although there are other competitive solutions.
The main issue with the 7990 isn't the stock performance just that it is at the whim of available Crossfire profiles, and in large part due to the almost non-existent overclocking headroom. The board will down throttle as soon as it reaches the boards max power- which it is fairly close to in stock trim. Any review of an enthusiast card has to take overclocking into account.
Add in the fact that the 7990 is mostly AWOL in stores and is selling for $50-100 over MSRP, along with two (higher performing) HD 7970GE's being available for over $200 less, and the 7990 doesn't make a compelling buy.
Anyhow, interesting card. Fully expect to see a realignment of pricing once AMD launch VI, with every SKU dropping one tier in price and a fully enabled GK 110 replacing the present Titan. GTX 680/HD 7970 performance should/could be the new midrange by early next year.
You mentioned that the 780 would theoretically have 70% more performance than the 580. However you did not post the results of the 580 in the results at all.
Please re-update the charts to include it.
Agree with DB0 in this regard,
7990 malta OC is a bit disappointment due to TDP limit.May be some BIOS flash can do the trick though.
Looks like all that renaming was just nonsense. The 780 is clearly (and I've looked at several reviews) faster then a GTX 680 and noticeably so (2304 CUDA cores compared to 1536 mind you). In the 8 games I cared to see results in, the 780 also handled (dare I say it, flamesuit engaged) the 7970Ghz as well @1600p. I would like to see how the 780 handles PhsyX in BL2 at max settings.
He DB0,I have i5-2400 and hd 6990.I have metro last light amd patch installed.Can I activate advanced physx on amd card or CPU will do the work on MLL.
Kindly confirm me if you know something on this regard(MLL) div by zero.
Can somebody tell me why so many of my comments get deleted in techspot.Even recent I posted titan outsold year old 690 and even nvidia PR is surprised about it and moment after it got deleted.Damn.
I think you'll find that the renaming furore will be reignited with Nvidia's next two releases. The GTX 770 (next week) will be a tweaked GTX 680 (with faster clocks especially memory, and the Boost 2.0 algorithm) followed by the GTX 760 Ti a little later using the same faster clocks/boost 2.0 to transform it from the GTX 670.
Pricing for both seems in line with the present boards ( $449 for the 770, and $299-349 for the 760 Ti), which should see prices of existing GTX 680/670 fall to at least where the HD 7970GE and HD 7950 are at present (if not a little lower).
Re MLL and an AMD card. If PhysX is available it will be low level and CPU computed only. If Borderlands 2 is any indication you'd best leave that box unchecked in the game menu for all the image quality gain versus performance hit you'd likely incur.
Maybe a quirk with the link (if you posted one) ? This article I presume?
I also posted other gtx 780 reviews from Linus tech tips and techreport,and even it got deleted.What's happening to techspot forum discussions-it's open or not?
Its an open discussion for this review. We don't need links to other reviews that came to the same conclusion thank you. Also if you are going to post so many links you might consider registering, others will be more inclined to have a conversation with you.
While the card is a monster, this is only an incremental upgrade. I think I can hold on to the GTX 670 for a while longer.
The card gtx 780 would look great if they price it around 450-500$ max.A 780 of $649 is only 20-25% faster than over a year old 400$ 7970 with 4 latest blockbuster games for free.650$ is a whooping ask as general trend of nvidia's ripping-off premium pricing to their customers.
I can't believe what I'm about to say, but I think I'm gonna buy this card. I'm done with mid-range cards, and high end GeForce cards dominate with performance AND the lowest frame times.
This card is interesting and a nice add on for a new gen nvidia card. Though I feel it's a insult to those who bought the Titan because from the paper specs and the few benchmarks I've seen, it seems that the price to performance level of the 780 is wayyy better than the gtx Titan and I'm curious as to why they would put that performance so close and then charge this price. It's really insulting to those who spent the 1000 dollars for a Titan to now see something that will perform so close to it for 350 from the same company.
Also, the AMD 7990 overclocks just fine. Quit ranting on it, almost every person has been able to get a 1100 core on it with no effort at all. Stop bringing it up, talk about the card at hand which is the gtx 780 and its comparison to its company counterparts.
Back to 780:
Honestly, the clock speeds are lower this gen, but I would like to see some overclocking and once the drivers mature, we will see where it truly lies. But I think it's still a little too high. But I guess if they had gone any cheaper, Titan owners would have more to complain about with it.
Not really, people who spent $1k on a Titan would know what they're getting themselves into. The extra 3GB VRAM will probably come in handy in some insane 7680x4800 tri-SLI Titan setup, and the Titan also has much better compute performance.
Yes the 6gb is nice, but not worth an extra 350 dollars. The extra bit of computing power from the Titan, and the extra 3gb do not in my opinion now with the 780, justify 350 dollars. For Instance there are 4gb GTX 680s and a 6gb 7970 which both cost a lot less, and can perform very well on their own (Mind you titan will still be above em, but not by more than 1.4 times mind you if that).
Im just saying, the 780 is a nice card and has decent performance increase which will probably only get better with time and drivers. But I think that if I had bought a GTX titan, I would be furious to have this little tiny performance difference for 350 extra dollars. Plus since if you want to sli with more cards and you have a titan, your going to spend 3000 dollars minimum vs spending <2000 dollars to do the same 3 cards setup (Or more for 4) and you would not see that great a performance difference between them (Let alone enough to validate an extra 1000 dollar difference).
Honestly I think the 780 is a nice card, but with NVidia either way I want to say, they are jacking prices up faster and faster. So seeing this card like it is, if your going NVidia, theres pretty much no point anymore to the titan with this card being so close to it and 350 bucks cheaper.
Rumours of a Titan LE have been around since before Titan launched. Some of the original rumours also credited the LE with being even closer to the Titan in ability. Titan owners knew what they were getting into.
1. Halo effect. Titan is still the numero uno of single GPU cards. GTX 780 hasn't changed that.
2. Titan has a 1:3 FP64 rate, the GTX 780 is capped at 1:24
3. The extra 3GB as slh28 noted. High levels of full screen AA at high resolutions (with of without 3D) are going to eat into a 3GB framebuffer
No one said it doesn't overclock. The point is that regardless of what input voltage you use and what clocks you set, the card is hard limited by the boards maximum power draw which downclocks the card. Don't believe me? there's PLENTY of evidence around: TPU...Tweaktown...Legit Reviews...G3D...Bit-tech...
Overclocking seems fine on the GTX 780 , and those numbers seem pretty much representative .
Rumors are Rumors, believing them has gotten us nowhere so hearing that a "Titan LE" was coming out did not mean anything till NVidia officially announces it because most of the time, rumors turn to be false or things change.
As for overclocking the 7990, None of the Dual GPU cards ever overclock that far, It still is able to be overclocked, nuff said.
There are overclocks out there for the 780, yes that's true. What I am referring to is seeing more than a couple reviews with overclocks and as drivers mature what the overclocks will show.
My point is, the 780 is a nice card, its got a decent performance increase and seems like a nicely designed card. However the higher price on their top of the line GPU is getting old real fast, and the fact that the price per performance is much better than the titan and its so close to the titan that im shocked honestly. Yes 6gb makes a difference, but only on a very minute amount of setups ad even then, it still does not validate the price point when there are alternatives as I stated being the 4gb 680 and the 6gb 7970.
Makes no sense. If Nvidia could sell a 14SMX enabled GPU what were the odds that they could also put out a 13 or 12SMX version? More to the point, 1. When have Nvidia (or AMD for that matter) NOT marketed a salvage part, and 2. What were the chances that anyone dropping $1K on a Titan wasn't aware that there was a possibility of a castrated version arriving later ?
They already seem to show a reasonable potential. As for the "couple of reviews", there are plenty around...if you can be bothered doing some minimal research. The Gigabyte OC is showing a 12% performance bump for a 10.5% core OC, while the EVGA SC shows 15% improvement for a 12% core OC.
Drivers will show (presumably) gains against other cards. Drivers will not alter the percentage gain between a card in stock trim versus an overclocked one.
Not too shabby given that you're defending a card (the HD 7990) that produces maybe a 3% improvement with a 10% overclock.
Clock for clock there is little difference between a 2 and 4GB GTX 680, nor a 3 and 6GB 7970. These cards are architecturally limited (ROP especially), not especially limited by framebuffer.
As for the "minute amounts of setups" I think you'll find that the GTX Titan fits that demographic pretty well...unless you are telling me that the Titan is a prodigious seller in comparison with other cards.
The reviews are fresh our of the barrel as the card has not been around long, hence why I said I was waiting ti hear what more people were saying more than a few review sites that got them right off the bat because when communities work together, you see things that others were not able to retrieve. A lot of these overclocks are just done for quick testing and not to push it to the full limits.
You could guess that (As you put it) a Castrated version of the card was coming, but this close in performance and this much cheaper (Which both I still stand by are overpriced). That's still an insult when you do the math on performance to price.
Again with the 7990, you really have some issues. Ok ill bite, the reviewers have seen in a range of 5-15% depending on the game for the 7990 which is around the 1100 on the core overclock that seems to be the popular point on that card that I hear for overclocking. Again dual GPU cards are meant to be space saving cards for people who don't want 4 cards but the performance (or close to) the performance of 4 cards. I would also like to mention you read those comparisons with the performance of the 7990 in these tests because now it would seem that card is pretty much the top or right below in everything including the Frame time buffering you care so much about.
The GTX Titans demographic may well be a small amount of people, but once again the performance it gives even being the top Single GPU out there is not much of a gain over the new 780 yet it costs a significant amount more (About roughly 1.5 times the cost) for a range of 10-15% difference. On the note of the 680 4gb version and the 7970 6gb version, the performance on the cards is not going to be really greater yes just because of the ram, but in a high def setup running multiple monitors etc, you will see those gains. You can pick up 2 GTX 680 4gb for ~1000 or 2 7970 6gb for ~1100 which will show a performance increase over the titan by a significant margin and while still maintaining the same price point. What im saying is, the 780 is still a bit too pricey, but its a way better buy than the titan and felt insulting given the price points to those who spent the money. For High monitor setups, you don't have to spend 1000 per GPU to run them and honestly both options for running at a 1000 dollar area will give you more FPS in gaming (Since im assuming your going to be gaming in these setups like I do) and another 1000 later for ~doubling the performance.
Techreport's test of 780 suggested 7970GHZ as best price to performance card among the cards that were tested on both frame rates and frame time.Amd finally got ahead of nvidia also in frame times besides frame rates when comparing among same gen cards(though I may also suggest human eye can't distinguish below 20-25ms frame time).They also concluded that amd has significant driver improvement on frame times tested on both fraps and fcat.7970 leads ahead of 680 in frame time.I still believe that far more can be squeezed out from graphics best architecture as GCN through drivers as it's ground up arc. unlike previous gen VLIW.
"You can pick up 2 GTX 680 4gb for ~1000 or 2 7970 6gb for ~1100 which will show a performance increase over the titan by a significant margin and while still maintaining the same price point."
Man Hate to say even 660ti SLI beats titan.
I'm pretty certain those willing to purchase a Titan, knows the pros and cons of single GPU vs dual GPU vs SLI configuration. If you don't want to or simply can't deal with dual GPUs or SLI configurations, the Titan will have great appeal as a single GPU solution. It's sad really that such an option will have a price premium, but thats marketing for you.