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Google defends itself as anger over anti-diversity manifesto intensifies

By midian182 ยท 40 replies
Aug 7, 2017
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  1. JamesSWD

    JamesSWD TS Addict Posts: 162   +114

    Did you expect better from this particular author? He's known to skew his stories left, regardless of facts.
     
    Bastiats Ghost and psycros like this.
  2. JamesSWD

    JamesSWD TS Addict Posts: 162   +114

    You have magic powers to see the race & gender of those commenting?
     
    Bastiats Ghost likes this.
  3. JamesSWD

    JamesSWD TS Addict Posts: 162   +114

    They're making the silly, pandering excuse and assumption that society/parents somehow gears only boys towards IT and other computer work. Anyone old enough to remember going to school in the 80's knew that schools were teaching boys & girls about computers and programming, without any gender bias. And the boys overwhelmingly gravitated towards the computers, while most girls hated them. I was one of the boys and saw this firsthand. Most parents back then didn't own or understand computers and had no influence on steering their boys or girls into the world of computers. Boys took to it naturally and steered themselves into it.
     
    Bastiats Ghost and psycros like this.
  4. wiyosaya

    wiyosaya TS Evangelist Posts: 1,826   +692

    Not according to this - http://www.parentingscience.com/girl-toys-and-parenting.html

    Both of us can probably find more links supporting each of our viewpoints. The fact that there is a disparity, IMO, probably indicates that the matter is not entirely settled.
     
  5. wiyosaya

    wiyosaya TS Evangelist Posts: 1,826   +692

    And I knew, in the 70s in my High Scool, several girls that were exceptional at math. Just because either one of us observed what we did does not make what we observed the norm. One's own observations are capable of tripping us up unless they are validated by the observations of others. That is what science is all about.

    Have a look at this for quite a few women that don't fit your viewpoint. - https://women.nasa.gov/
     
  6. Abraka

    Abraka TS Member Posts: 36   +14

    It's not a cultural problem. Even in Sweden, Finland and Norway there's much less women in the IT classes than males. Same goes for politics. Start talking about politics, immediately about 99% of women and 50% of men will leave the room. Which explains why is there so many men in politics. Nobody points the gun at the women. They just don't find politics and IT interesting.

    When you meet a woman, and you tell her you're IT expert, she looks a lot less interested immediately. Except two types of woman, those rare that actually are into computers and technology, and those who think that you must be having a good salary. But you can see that women don't dig technology.
     
    Bastiats Ghost and psycros like this.
  7. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Grand Inquisitor Posts: 4,731   +3,753

    It seems that I jumped the gun with that prediction. In reality, it was mere hours:

    https://www.recode.net/2017/8/7/161...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

    Top talent is now going to second think Google offers and the crimethinkers within its ranks are going to be on the hunt for more secure jobs.

    Never hire SJWs, folks. They bring nothing but destruction.
     
    Bastiats Ghost and psycros like this.
  8. BigMack70

    BigMack70 TS Enthusiast Posts: 29   +23

    Main point of the paper was that ideological diversity should be valued (and is not) at least as much if not more than biological diversity (which is). I think that's pretty solid, and the fact that it's being dismissed by google and angry twitter users without the substance of its material being answered sort of proves its point.
     
    Bastiats Ghost and psycros like this.
  9. psycros

    psycros TS Evangelist Posts: 1,830   +1,236

    You gotta love how eager the left are to prove their critics right.
     
    Bastiats Ghost likes this.
  10. Kotters

    Kotters TS Maniac Posts: 267   +172

    When will people stop assuming gender and race over the internet? It's problematic behavior and it needs to stop.
     
    Nobina likes this.
  11. Bastiats Ghost

    Bastiats Ghost TS Rookie

    Embracing diversity would be suicide, Google.

    Do it.
     
  12. Michiel

    Michiel TS Rookie

    Sad to see Techspot post such a biased article on this issue. A headline like "Google-employee diversity-policy manifesto continues to spark intense debate" would have been more accurate and neutral. Now the article's author has clearly picked a side.
    Anyone who has read the manifesto without clenching their fists and chanting "burn the white cis-gendered male patriarchy!" to themselves repeatedly can tell that this is not in any way an "anti diversity manifesto" (or "screed" as it was denigratingly called in other "news" outlets).
    Almost all the professional psychologists or biologists I've seen respond to the manifesto have vouched for it's scientific accuracy regarding gender differences. Nowhere in the manifesto does it say anything negative about individual women who work in and have a passion and skill for tech. It only speaks about averages based on scientific evidence.
    Of course women who want to work in tech should be able to do so in an environment without harassment, and for the same pay as a male employee in the same job. The manifesto never disputed that. Yes society and upbringing may be responsible for holding some women back who would otherwise have been interested in working in tech, but it's not the only, or even the main reason for the over-representation of men. Biological differences have their part to play and trying for an artificial 50/50 balance of men and women in tech may not be a reasonable or desirable goal at all and actually in itself may lead to discriminatory practices.

    AFAIK that was the point the document was making, and it was making it in a very fair and measured way.
    I recommend everyone to check out this article on Quillette where several scientists (including a woman) respond to the manifesto:
    http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-respond/
     
    erickmendes likes this.
  13. erickmendes

    erickmendes TS Maniac Posts: 305   +106

    Update: Just finished reading it... It really is well writen and a lot less unbiased than the way the media is threating that matter... Clearly Google fired him just to be on the 'safe side'...

    @Michiel totally agree (after reading the manifesto)
     
  14. Bubbajim

    Bubbajim TS Maniac Posts: 231   +157

    You talk about culture as though it can be separated from the people who make up a culture. Cultures are made up of people. People who are biological entities. Getting facts about one does not preclude the other being an issue too. It's bonkers that people think "it's not X, it's Y!" without ever considering that it might be X+Y.

    Yes, sexism still exists. Yes, it's important to remove barriers and level the playing field. These are points that the original "memo" made, repeatedly. But it also made the points about biological differences. Biological differences feed into, and play out in, cultural differences (at least when it comes to gender roles).

    When you have studies that show things like one day old babies - who simply cannot be influenced by "social" or "cultural" factors - show differences between genders in their attention to things, it's hard to surmise that biology doesn't factor in. http://www.math.kth.se/matstat/gru/5b1501/F/sex.pdf

    We're not slaves to our biology, obviously, we're the best animal on the planet at overcoming the limits of our genes. But to suggest that (and this bit's important) when looking at population-sized samples biological factors won't show themselves is just wrong.

    Can't things be more complex than just *one* cause? And if you agree that they can, why is it wrong to acknowledge more than one cause?
     
  15. Reachable

    Reachable TS Booster Posts: 136   +39

    Perhaps the major off-putting reason girls don't pursue careers in tech is that they see it as a boys' club. That can be very daunting. It works similarly for the guys not wanting to transgress into the girls' realms. I've noticed in recent years that it seems like almost half the articles you see in various publications covering science and tech are written by women, and they are written every bit as technically. This is because journalism has ceased to be a boys' club.

    I read the memo. Some of the author's observations are ignorant to the point of absurdity, but he's entirely well-meaning and not disrespectful of anyone. In fact, it's an altogether meek document that strives for the persuasions of intellect rather than emotion. That he was fired for it should be alarming for everyone.
     
  16. antiproduct

    antiproduct TS Booster Posts: 42   +26

    There's these things called profile pictures, like the one you have. Yeah, you could be misrepresenting yourself, but you really do fit the description of your image. So... yeah. It's pretty amazing really.
     

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