Donald Trump tells Apple to "get rid" of diversity programs after shareholders back them

[Squid Surprise]

To Pluto and Squid - I'm sure republicans will have plenty of social programs to address the underlying issues that led to DEI, they're def known as the party that supports these!

I'm sure they won't... I am NOT a Trump supporter... but that doesn't mean I disagree with everything he says... my argument is that if you actually want to address diversity, a DEI policy isn't the solution.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I'm sorry you can't read. That's not what the article says.

Ahh... I see... reading does not equal comprehension... let me help

Here is a brief summation of your article - if you disagree with my findings, please feel free to educate me by providing some EVIDENCE (it means "proof", since you don't seem to get it) that I'm wrong.

-->America is becoming more diverse: this is happening because of immigration, birth rates, etc... nothing to do with DEI policies

--> The American workforce, despite this, is still preeminently white - contrary to the actual population percentages.

--> The unemployment figures for blacks and hispanics are higher than the national average.

Please explain to me where this shows that DEI is working?

 

[opckieran]

Didn't
Earn
It

 

[axiomatic13]

It sounds to me like some of y'all are too young to remember why we started DEI programs in the workplace? Especially down here in Southern Texas. It was wall to wall white men. I'm 56, I was there, I remember, I'm a white man.

 

[Kirby1]

Ahh... I see... reading does not equal comprehension... let me help

Here is a brief summation of your article - if you disagree with my findings, please feel free to educate me by providing some EVIDENCE (it means "proof", since you don't seem to get it) that I'm wrong.

-->America is becoming more diverse: this is happening because of immigration, birth rates, etc... nothing to do with DEI policies

--> The American workforce, despite this, is still preeminently white - contrary to the actual population percentages.

--> The unemployment figures for blacks and hispanics are higher than the national average.

Please explain to me where this shows that DEI is working?

This article was more about the reasons why it's important. You can look at the other articles I've posted for more information.

 

[Squid Surprise]

This article was more about the reasons why it's important. You can look at the other articles I've posted for more information.

So why did you use it as your "evidence"... I repeat... provide some

It sounds to me like some of y'all are too young to remember why we started DEI programs in the workplace? Especially down here in Southern Texas. It was wall to wall white men. I'm 56, I was there, I remember, I'm a white man.

Agreed - but the DEI programs haven't worked out as intended... no one is arguing (or at least they shouldn't be) that we want every hire to be a white American. What we want is for every hire to be the most qualified person. In an ideal world, the same percentage of minorities would be qualified as white people - leading to a truly diverse workforce.

Unfortunately, the underlying issues - mentioned by other posters including myself like social programs such as education, have not been implemented properly by DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS. The reasons for this vary by government and timeframe, but generally simply come down to money...

It's a lot cheaper and easier to say "DEI will fix this" than spending the billions, and taking the decades necessary, to make real change.

 

[Kirby1]

So why did you use it as your "evidence"... I repeat... provide some

Agreed - but the DEI programs haven't worked out as intended... no one is arguing (or at least they shouldn't be) that we want every hire to be a white American. What we want is for every hire to be the most qualified person. In an ideal world, the same percentage of minorities would be qualified as white people - leading to a truly diverse workforce.

Unfortunately, the underlying issues - mentioned by other posters including myself like social programs such as education, have not been implemented properly by DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS. The reasons for this vary by government and timeframe, but generally simply come down to money...

It's a lot cheaper and easier to say "DEI will fix this" than spending the billions, and taking the decades necessary, to make real change.

Show evidence that DEI hasn't worked out.

 

[axiomatic13]

So why did you use it as your "evidence"... I repeat... provide some

Agreed - but the DEI programs haven't worked out as intended... no one is arguing (or at least they shouldn't be) that we want every hire to be a white American. What we want is for every hire to be the most qualified person. In an ideal world, the same percentage of minorities would be qualified as white people - leading to a truly diverse workforce.

Unfortunately, the underlying issues - mentioned by other posters including myself like social programs such as education, have not been implemented properly by DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS. The reasons for this vary by government and timeframe, but generally simply come down to money...

It's a lot cheaper and easier to say "DEI will fix this" than spending the billions, and taking the decades necessary, to make real change.

I worked in IT for 30 years. 28 of which were at Compaq>HP>HPE. Their DEI is a great success. It's really hard to read what you guys think of those programs, when I never experienced the negative aspects you speak of in my 30 years in the IT trenches? I would love to see some specific examples instead of the weaksauce "DEI is woke" nonsense.

 

[Burty117]

Show evidence that DEI hasn't worked out.

I mean, he did didn't he? I've just had to read this comment section and he in-fact pointed you to several studies that concluded DEI practices generally don't work.

You've provided a link to an article that provides practically nothing and if anything, almost does the opposite.

You American's though, damn, you lot really are divided over there...

 

[BogdanR]

Now, here's the thing... DEI, as a "concept" is fine. Ideally, every company should have a diverse selection of peoples/cultures/religions/etc representing the population they serve. But this was always a political way to make this happen!

To have true diversity, you need to address the root causes of WHY MINORITIES AREN'T QUALIFIED for certain jobs. If a certain ethnicity lives in terrible conditions, receives subpar education and is treated like dirt by the rest of the population, simply forcing businesses to hire them won't serve any purpose.

We need to bring social programs to provide ways for these people to get the eduction/training/funding they need to BECOME QUALIFIED.

Of course, this is a lot harder and more expensive to do for any government - hence DEI.

I agree with this but the two things MUST be connected. If you want to build a true inclusive society you need to both root out the sources of inequality (racism, poor education and so on) AND offer good opportunity for a decent life. Both require sheer prolonged political will to do so and a lot of trial and error, things a neo-liberal conditioned society, like the American society is, will never support. Please note that I refer to neoliberalism as it was put forward by Milton Friedmann an adviser to both Reagan and Tatcher.

Following Friedman's idea of Free Market (laissez-faire) capitalism being the best and only way to maximize human liberty, and the fall of the Iron Curtain in '89, Francis Fukuyama has postulated in 1992 in The End of History that Free Market based liberal democracies prevailed and an era of prosperity will follow, lifting everyone everywhere, regardless of the few states here and there which are still stuck in their old backward ways which will have to follow or perish.

Funny how Fukuyama was wrong. He recently admitted as much.

If anyone still doubts the deleterious effects of free market, laissez-faire capitalism please go buy a 5070ti card.

By extension, the same crap happening in the graphics card market is happening in our society now.

 

[nnguy2]

No, I said I had to work twice as hard to get the same job that white people needed to get. Are you intentional ignoring what I said because it's inconvenient?

I guess we found Clarence Thomas

 

[pnntmp]

The DEI lunacy is unconstitutional. If I were to introduce reversed DEI and refuse to hire minorities of all sorts (because the shareholders back that, for example), there will be outrage and stuff.

Apple most likely simply pretends to have DEI policies, because hiring incompetent people is against their interest. But even pretending to support this lunacy is wrong.

 

[Kirby1]

I mean, he did didn't he? I've just had to read this comment section and he in-fact pointed you to several studies that concluded DEI practices generally don't work.

You've provided a link to an article that provides practically nothing and if anything, almost does the opposite.

You American's though, damn, you lot really are divided over there...

None of what he posted showed trends, they were cherry picked examples. They also didn't show DEI being negative, just it not being effective one way or the other in a very small number of cherry picked examples.

Infact, he showed bias by ignoring trends entirely.

 

[Kirby1]

The DEI lunacy is unconstitutional. If I were to introduce reversed DEI and refuse to hire minorities of all sorts (because the shareholders back that, for example), there will be outrage and stuff.

Apple most likely simply pretends to have DEI policies, because hiring incompetent people is against their interest. But even pretending to support this lunacy is wrong.

I would assume that Tim Cook takes DEI somewhat to heart since he is a gay man.

 

[DukeJukem]

How is diversity, equally, and inclusion bad?

It's just what you people say instead of saying the n-word, since that would get you in trouble.

As a person of color, lol please. Just like all those republican Twitter accounts "as a gay black man... I support Trump and hate DEI" kind of thing.

I guarantee there is not a single thing you can say about diversity, equality, and inclusion that is both real and had a tangiblly negative effect on anything.

Hiring based on merit automatically includes all aspects of "DEI" if it's done right. The best person for the job no matter their color, sex, beliefs etc. would get the job. It's not my issue if there's someone in charge that supposedly isn't following that system because their blinders are on if that's even the case to begin with.

Examples of things DEI has ruined or stagnated includes the entire gaming industry with all the awkward and cringe dialog, soft gameplay elements etc....lol not to mention the multiple studios that have been shut down after releasing woke games. The education system since it's "so important" to learn about why grown *** adults are crossdressing all day and acting like they belong on display at a circus. Uhhh the entire border being opened could probably be classified as DEI lol. Those are all bad things.

Anything else you need?

 

[Skjorn]

I'm sorry you can't read. That's not what the article says.

Here's another one:

The backlash against diversity, equity and inclusion in business is in full force − but myths obscure the real value of DEI

Diversity, equity and inclusion are good for the bottom line.

theconversation.com

DEI does nothing good for anyone except poc's simply because they are a poc. It doesn't help smart people, it doesn't help the right people. If you aren't a poc you're not included, you're excluded.

You want an example of a direct negative effect? Just look at video games, what's selling, what's taking a dump? Is DEI wokeness selling off the shelves or was it patriotic masculinity? Ask Sony.. about HD2 and Concord... Naughty Dog seems to obsessed with unattractive lesbians for some reasons. Showed a friend the intergalactic trailer, his words as it played were "oh a Naughty Dog game! Alright cool. .. ahh another lesbian huh... that sucks" Not very many people will feel included in those experiences.

Then we got Ubisoft about to just delete their main character from Assassin's Creed Shadows because he's a forced DEI asset and the majority of people have a negative opinion on it.

 

[Squid Surprise]

None of what he posted showed trends, they were cherry picked examples. They also didn't show DEI being negative, just it not being effective one way or the other in a very small number of cherry picked examples.

Infact, he showed bias by ignoring trends entirely.

I understand that you can't comprehend my stance (and a bunch of other people's)... I (and they) still await your evidence that disproves it though...

I would like to point out that my original post said that Trump shouldn't be able to repeal DEI if any company (in this case Apple) wanted to keep it.

The concept of DEI is great - but if the current policy isn't working - maybe we should look at alternatives?

 

[Kirby1]

DEI is not a specific rule or law, or policy. It's the idea that POC need to be looked at with extra objectivity based on the Fact that it's statistically true that a POC who is equally qualified as a white person is significantly less likely to be hired.

DEI policies in general aim to correct that issue. Not every policy is perfect, but the logic is sound.

A company that is less likely to hire qualified candidates unless they are white actually benefits from correctly implemented DEI policies because it opens them up to a bigger pool of qualified people they can hire.


This is simple.


You can point to examples where a specific company may have implemented a DEI policy that didn't work well, but you can't make any sound arguments that the logic of DEI policies in general is wrong.

 

[Jack77]

Hope there is still a large group of sane people in the U.S. Because based on internet comments I get sad. From a distance, it looks like while extremists from both sides of the culture conflict draw so much attention, a totalitarian state is emerging, with a president/emperor and his oligarchs. The name 'Russia' is already taken, though.

 

[BogdanR]

The concept of DEI is great - but if the current policy isn't working - maybe we should look at alternatives?

Why not discuss that instead? I'm all up for it. A discussion, finding solutions, finding their flaws, refining the solutions accordingly.
This is what our society is missing: true dialog.
Ideology has replaced dialog so actual true dialog has become damn near impossible.

 

[ccccn]

Trump is 100% correct as he always turns out to be . By far the best President in this country's history .

Go Trump !!!

 

[Kirby1]

Trump is 100% correct as he always turns out to be . By far the best President in this country's history .

Go Trump !!!

One of those comments where you can't tell if it's satire or not.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Why not discuss that instead? I'm all up for it. A discussion, finding solutions, finding their flaws, refining the solutions accordingly.
This is what our society is missing: true dialog.
Ideology has replaced dialog so actual true dialog has become damn near impossible.

Would love to - and I DID bring up some root issues that need to be addressed… but I’m afraid most people either want to ignore the real issues or simply contradict other people here…

 

[Kirby1]

Would love to - and I DID bring up some root issues that need to be addressed… but I’m afraid most people either want to ignore the real issues or simply contradict other people here…

You ignore the issue by focusing on cherry picked examples to support the argument you want to make rather than looking at the bigger picture and accurately assessing the situation.

It's not worth debating someone who only wants to talked about cherry picked examples when this is a a much larger concept that is obviously going to have a few examples where it didn't work well just as there are many examples where it does.

 

[Squid Surprise]

You ignore the issue by focusing on cherry picked examples to support the argument you want to make rather than looking at the bigger picture and accurately assessing the situation.

Oh really? Maybe you should re-read my posts? And maybe you should provide some evidence for yours? I’m happy to debate someone who has something to say - you just go with the “you’re wrong, I’m right” method of debate…