Other people have already provided their first had tenured experience as to why it's effective.
Donald Trump tells Apple to "get rid" of diversity programs after shareholders back them
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BogdanR
Posts: 448 +750
Well... I guess if two of the most articulate people in this thread cannot agree to disagree and move past that towards a discussed compromise, at least for the time being, then all hope is indeed lost.
Second-hand testimony from posters in a forum does not constitute evidence. I gave you several actual studies… you provided links that actually helped prove MY point, not yours.
I still await some actual studies that prove yours…
I'll debate people who are objective, but trying to change someone's mind when they seem committed to an "anti-woke" agenda and perspective has never worked.
Best case, objective people who don't engage in the debate read some of this and it helps lead them to a better perspective.
Can the people harping on about DEI discriminating against qualified individuals also explain trump’s recent nominees? especially the more recent one... three-star retired lt. gen. dan 'razin' caine, who doesn’t meet the minimum requirements to hold the position, yet is replacing four-star gen. charles q. brown jr. as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff?
by trump’s own logic, his picks are by definition DEI hires. yet they bypass higher-ranking officers, break tradition, and raise serious concerns about qualifications. so, how is this different from the very policies they criticize, especially when it involves such a critical leadership role?
this is why, when you say DEI, you get pushback... it clearly means something else. it’s often used to push a narrative that doesn’t align with the actual outcomes. when the conversation shifts to policies that bypass traditional merit or seniority, like trump’s recent nominations, it becomes clear that DEI is sometimes weaponized to fit a political agenda rather than being about fairness or qualification.
it’s about consistency.. if the goal is truly about merit, then why does the narrative shift when it benefits certain individuals or political views?
by trump’s own logic, his picks are by definition DEI hires. yet they bypass higher-ranking officers, break tradition, and raise serious concerns about qualifications. so, how is this different from the very policies they criticize, especially when it involves such a critical leadership role?
this is why, when you say DEI, you get pushback... it clearly means something else. it’s often used to push a narrative that doesn’t align with the actual outcomes. when the conversation shifts to policies that bypass traditional merit or seniority, like trump’s recent nominations, it becomes clear that DEI is sometimes weaponized to fit a political agenda rather than being about fairness or qualification.
it’s about consistency.. if the goal is truly about merit, then why does the narrative shift when it benefits certain individuals or political views?
BogdanR
Posts: 448 +750
Sorry to intercede here but this is a bit of "absence of evidence meaning evidence of absence".Ahh... I see... reading does not equal comprehension... let me help
Here is a brief summation of your article - if you disagree with my findings, please feel free to educate me by providing some EVIDENCE (it means "proof", since you don't seem to get it) that I'm wrong.
-->America is becoming more diverse: this is happening because of immigration, birth rates, etc... nothing to do with DEI policies
--> The American workforce, despite this, is still preeminently white - contrary to the actual population percentages.
--> The unemployment figures for blacks and hispanics are higher than the national average.
Please explain to me where this shows that DEI is working?
None of that can either prove or disprove DEI works. I hope you both are aware of that.
Nothing I posted helped prove your point but it's clear that your goal is to argue against DEI as a concept without providing evidence. Nothing I could possibly post would move the needle for you no matter how fully accurate and comprehensive it may be.
I think you can find countless examples of DEI policies working, but these days the waters are muddied simply by the fact that Maga has created this totally baseless backlash to it, so now companies have to ask themselves if the benefits outweigh the backlash from Maga.
Your links did - I understand you didn’t read them, but maybe you should have?
I love how you move the goalposts yet refuse to prove (or even attempt to prove) your own points.
You think there are “countless examples” - great! Please provide some links to them!
Indeed - I am. I even pointed it out in the beginning and was told I was ridiculous…
I just don't have all day to spend posting links to things you could easily find on your own if you actually wanted to digest that information, which you clear don't.
But CoPilot has time for it.
Here are some tangible benefits that companies have experienced from implementing DEI policies:
1. **Accenture**: By supporting Employee Resource Groups (ERGs), Accenture has seen increased employee engagement and retention. These groups provide a sense of community and belonging, which helps employees feel more connected to the company and motivated to contribute to its success.
2. **Microsoft**: Microsoft's commitment to increasing Black representation and investing in DEI initiatives has led to a more diverse and inclusive workplace. This has resulted in higher employee satisfaction, improved innovation, and better decision-making, as diverse teams bring different perspectives and ideas.
3. **Costco**: The strong support for DEI initiatives at Costco has helped create a more inclusive and equitable work environment. This has led to increased employee loyalty and a positive company culture, which in turn has contributed to the company's overall success.
4. **Salesforce**: Conducting regular pay equity audits and implementing inclusive hiring practices have helped Salesforce attract and retain top talent. This has led to improved employee satisfaction, higher productivity, and better business outcomes.
5. **Google**: Google's comprehensive DEI training programs and support for ERGs have fostered a more inclusive workplace. This has resulted in increased employee engagement, innovation, and overall company performance.
These examples demonstrate how DEI policies can lead to tangible benefits for companies, including improved employee satisfaction, higher retention rates, increased innovation, and better business outcomes. You can find more detailed information on these initiatives [here](https://thenorfusfirm.com/examples-of-diversity-and-inclusion-in-the-workplace/).
: [The Norfus Firm](https://thenorfusfirm.com/examples-of-diversity-and-inclusion-in-the-workplace/)
And now here again as it specifically replates to Apple:
Apple has seen several tangible benefits from its DEI policies:
1. **Increased Innovation**: By fostering a diverse and inclusive workforce, Apple has been able to tap into a wide range of perspectives and ideas. This diversity of thought has led to innovative products and solutions that cater to a broader audience.
2. **Improved Employee Engagement**: Apple's commitment to DEI has created a more inclusive and supportive work environment. This has resulted in higher employee satisfaction and engagement, which in turn has led to increased productivity and retention.
3. **Enhanced Reputation**: Apple's DEI initiatives have bolstered its reputation as a socially responsible company. This positive image has helped attract top talent and build stronger relationships with customers and partners.
4. **Better Customer Service**: Apple's focus on accessibility and inclusive design has improved the customer experience for people with disabilities. For example, the SignTime service allows deaf and hard-of-hearing customers to communicate with AppleCare and Retail Customer Care using sign language.
5. **Expanded Market Reach**: By prioritizing diversity and inclusion, Apple has been able to better understand and serve diverse markets. This has helped the company expand its customer base and increase market share.
These benefits demonstrate how Apple's DEI policies have contributed to its overall success and growth. You can find more detailed information on these initiatives [here](https://www.apple.com/diversity/) and [here](https://9to5mac.com/2025/01/13/heres-why-apple-is-right-to-hold-firm-on-its-dei-policies/).
kiwigraeme
Posts: 2,747 +2,033
Will MAGA stop using Apple and Costco - because they hate inclusion
Read some of replies above =diversity ( that's USA foundation right there ) , inclusion ( has to be a good thing right ) , equity seems fine
Really like being woke , generally a good thing - Just because of some bad implementations, or over zealousness , no reason to trash the concept . Your democracy is not even a real democracy - the ruling class is firmly entrenched and solidating it's powers
Again this is just a BOGEYMAN
remember when America was great? people could buy a house on one income , huge shift away from poverty and inequity . that is when the rich were taxed a lot , yet stock market and economy grew - look up tax rates 1956 onwards in this huge shift to wealth for EVERYONE
Under the previous Trump admin national debt shot up. Is it in your pockets no all those trillions when to super rich average american is now poorer and closer to poverty. Now in next few years another 4 trillion will leave your pockets and go to mega rich because you are told this is what you want - and you worry about trans people , DEI and your payroll tax and entitlements are being stolen from you right now .
880 Billion to find + more Debt - can only come from your Medicaid, super etc . your consumer and other protections , food stamps ( ie small farm subsidies )
So much winning
80%of you will get less than $2000 tax cuts - why Musk the Richest Man in the world paid NO personal tax last year , or next year or evah - worried about DEI and trans , Drag queens/kings reading books
Enjoy the Steal
Read some of replies above =diversity ( that's USA foundation right there ) , inclusion ( has to be a good thing right ) , equity seems fine
Really like being woke , generally a good thing - Just because of some bad implementations, or over zealousness , no reason to trash the concept . Your democracy is not even a real democracy - the ruling class is firmly entrenched and solidating it's powers
Again this is just a BOGEYMAN
remember when America was great? people could buy a house on one income , huge shift away from poverty and inequity . that is when the rich were taxed a lot , yet stock market and economy grew - look up tax rates 1956 onwards in this huge shift to wealth for EVERYONE
Under the previous Trump admin national debt shot up. Is it in your pockets no all those trillions when to super rich average american is now poorer and closer to poverty. Now in next few years another 4 trillion will leave your pockets and go to mega rich because you are told this is what you want - and you worry about trans people , DEI and your payroll tax and entitlements are being stolen from you right now .
880 Billion to find + more Debt - can only come from your Medicaid, super etc . your consumer and other protections , food stamps ( ie small farm subsidies )
So much winning
80%of you will get less than $2000 tax cuts - why Musk the Richest Man in the world paid NO personal tax last year , or next year or evah - worried about DEI and trans , Drag queens/kings reading books
Enjoy the Steal
That is inaccurate. I already stated/acknowledged way back in this comments section that the info you are referencing did not prove DEI policies effectiveness, while also pointing out that it didn't support your agenda either.
Part of the issue is that it is somewhat time consuming to find good evidence one way or the other because there are so many politically charged articles that don't provide any real facts that dilute the information pool.
So, if you really want to know the facts without just seeking to validate your own white maga confirmation bias, I encourage you to use all the tools at your digital desk to find the information yourself.
All valid points.
On some level, all this DEI stuff is just the low hanging fruit that "republican leaders", if you can even call them that anymore, use to distract everyone while then bend us all over.
And why should you GAS about what people think? What matters is what you think about yourself, and you know that you put in the hard work to get where you are.
As I see it, that's part of the problem with DEI is that everyone has an opinion and as Dirty Harry said, "Opinions are like A-holes. Everybody's got one." The other part of the problem is that people are listening to one side or the other's opinion on DEI be that Trump's or the liberals. Either opinion is just as meaningless, but to go firing people that are doing good jobs simply because Trump says "DEI Bad" is a load of crap, and only serves to bolster, as I see it anyway, Trump's ego.
And as I see it, people need to stop killing it because Trump says its bad.
If the US really wants to fight this battle, and it seems like there are so many other battles that are far more important for the US to fight, then it should go through the court system and to the Supreme Court. Trump is not King of the US, although, he seems to be joking he is, and perhaps he believes it, too.
The political division in the US is certainly not helping this fact.
This guy wins the award for dumbest and most trollish comments in the thread.
The way that I see it, it is that the tragedy of this is that it is making YOU question YOURSELF. You are discrediting yourself. IMO.
OK... here's the post I made about it:
Your reply follows:
So... still inaccurate? Please explain...
I understand - proving your point can be tough... but if you want to be taken seriously, maybe it'll be worth the effort? Or maybe... my statements were accurate after all?
I have no MAGA bias - nor am I white.... nor am I American for that matter... And if you look at my posts in other threads, you'll see I'm quite anti-Trump in most things...
The world doesn't exist in black or white - there are shades of grey out there
The current DEI policies in the US are NOT working as intended - the proof is in the many studies showing that they aren't working... not to mention the divisiveness they've sewn in your nation.
Should they be universally scrapped? Maybe read my very first reply to this thread - I said that having the president make that call for a company was dangerous ground... I really think you'd benefit from READING all of my posts (and maybe everyone else's as well) in this thread before you just go toxic SJW here...
Good God, Man. Now you are putting word in his mouth based on your impressions and/or because you have encountered white a-holes, so all white people must be a-holes?
Have a pity party if that is what you want.
IMO, the right believes DEI is bad because Trump says it's bad. There can be no questioning their King.Provide evidence or shut up.
Three of the most popular DEI Myths debunked
Since the 2020 DEI boom, critics have promoted different myths about DEI. This article explores the most popular DEI myths and provides evidence to debunk them.www.forbes.com
Cool how you ignored the posts I made with a lot more detailed information.OK... here's the post I made about it:
Your reply follows:
So... still inaccurate? Please explain...
I understand - proving your point can be tough... but if you want to be taken seriously, maybe it'll be worth the effort? Or maybe... my statements were accurate after all?
I have no MAGA bias - nor am I white.... nor am I American for that matter... And if you look at my posts in other threads, you'll see I'm quite anti-Trump in most things...
The world doesn't exist in black or white - there are shades of grey out there
The current DEI policies in the US are NOT working as intended - the proof is in the many studies showing that they aren't working... not to mention the divisiveness they've sewn in your nation.
Should they be universally scrapped? Maybe read my very first reply to this thread - I said that having the president make that call for a company was dangerous ground... I really think you'd benefit from READING all of my posts (and maybe everyone else's as well) in this thread before you just go toxic SJW here...
Doesn't seem like you want to be taken seriously at all here, since you ignore everything that would actually further the arguments you're against, while offering zero evidence, not even weak evidence. Zero.
99% of what makes up DEI policies is done on a case by case basis by individual companies. It has very little to do with government at all. When you claim "US DEI policy is not working", that is a meaningless statement. The US has no policy or mandate. It has a series of individual businesses with their own unique policies.
Really? You failed to provide any useful evidence while telling your opponents to “shut up” unless they had any of their own… I think it’s pretty obvious how you roll… goodbye…
You have not even attempted to provide evidence. To support your argument.
You have proven one thing though; you have more free time to argue the same nonsensical points over and over again than anyone else here.
Since you have already ignored the more detailed posts I made with direct examples, I am not going to waste anymore time trying to educate you. It's not hard, but it is time consuming and on top of that, a complete waste of time since you have chosen to believe what you want to believe despite evidence.
I wouldn't waste my time trying to convince a die-hard Christian that God isn't real anymore than I would waste time trying to provide you with information that you will simply ignore.
Head in the sand, peeking out only briefly to see what you want to see and nothing more.
maroon1
Posts: 209 +245
DEI is 100% racist and sexist
If company need to hire 10 people.... and let say that top 10 candidates were all males and Asian/white .... if you hire people based on who is most qualified then then those 10 should all get that job... Under DEI policy some of these top 10 candidates will be replaced by less qualified candidate because of their race/gender. How is that not racist and sexist... If I more qualified than other person but I was not chosen because of my race/gender then thats 100% racist and sexist and unfair
If company need to hire 10 people.... and let say that top 10 candidates were all males and Asian/white .... if you hire people based on who is most qualified then then those 10 should all get that job... Under DEI policy some of these top 10 candidates will be replaced by less qualified candidate because of their race/gender. How is that not racist and sexist... If I more qualified than other person but I was not chosen because of my race/gender then thats 100% racist and sexist and unfair
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