Let's talk GPU prices and this month's update is very interesting because of two key factors: the first, Nvidia just launched new GeForce 40 series graphics cards; and second, GPU mining is now dead.
GPU Mining Is Dead, Where Are My Cheap GPUs?
- Thread starter Scorpus
- Start date
Uncle Al
Posts: 10,172 +9,650
I would imagine these cards will start to fall, probably dramatically but that will be governed by the market. Used cards should start to show up on eBay soon ....
Hold fast, on all new GPU purchases, and AMD and Nvidia will get a message they aren't likely to soon forget.
I was about to build my first desktop for myself in almost 15 years, but I'm waiting until the holidays or even up to Spring.
I was about to build my first desktop for myself in almost 15 years, but I'm waiting until the holidays or even up to Spring.
psycros
Posts: 4,788 +7,391
If they aren't bottoming out by Cyber Monday they'll probably keep gouging right through the holidays, and this is exactly what I expect. Jan 1st will probably be magic time.
What I really think that Nvidia regrets is how it priced 30 series. The RTX 3080 @ $700 was an expensive GPU, but because the RTX 3090 was only about 15% faster but $800 more expensive, it left this very small gap with a huge price difference. Nvidia has inverted that. Now we have a $1200 4080 and a $1600 4090, which is a much closer pricing window, but geesh, the performance gap is huge. This is my main issue with how Nvidia priced these GPUs, why is the 4080 16GB so expensive? and the 4080 12 GB for that matter which should be a 4070? Every one expected price increases, but these don't even make sense. The 4090 is by far the best price/performance of the 40 series and that is ridiculous for highest SKU!, The 4080 16 GB needs a price adjustment to $900-$1000 and the 4080 12 GB should be no more than $700 (even then they could have done better than 192 bit memory bus). That would have at least made these cards feel like you were getting a good price to performance upgrade and that they were in line with the pricing of the top tier SKU. Both 4080s are $200 + overpriced. I don't think it will last long though, I just don't see a lot of people paying the asking price. Plus, eventually we know that Nvidia is going to have to fit in a 4080 Ti, which we know can't be more than $1600 and won't be less than $1200, but will be quite a bit more powerful than the 4080 16GB because it will be on AD102. So why in the world would you buy the 4080 when the Ti will probably be $1400 and 50% faster? Well there is only one reason for all this, Nvidia intends to drop the price at some point, there is no doubt in my mind about that. But, probably after they sell out of the initial stock and remaining RTX 30 stock is sold off. So yes, its obvious that these cards are priced to sell RTX 30.
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Nobina
Posts: 4,504 +5,507
The prices have been speculated to fall for years now and they did to some degree but it seems like they won't fall as fast as people thought or down enough to justify the wait.
fps4ever
Posts: 1,149 +1,899
It's coming, just be patient. I've seen 5700 XT's selling below $200 this week. If you want NV it shouldn't be long. Once the new AMD/NV cards are available and the holiday (deals) coming up people will want to sell off for other stuff.
takaozo
Posts: 944 +1,479
In my country retail stores still have inflated prices compared to this list.
On second hand market just last couple of weeks we started to see =MSRP, after ETH POS.
I guess it's the same for other countries except US.
On second hand market just last couple of weeks we started to see =MSRP, after ETH POS.
I guess it's the same for other countries except US.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,721 +4,821
It's only a matter of time. Video cards are a commodity these days and, like all computer parts, a perishable one. Wait too long and you won't get jack-squat for it. People know this and so the pressure is on the sellers, not the buyers.
takaozo
Posts: 944 +1,479
I have tons of patience and can wait until next spring.
I'm ready to accept any driver issues AMD or Intel have.
Not going to buy green team from now on.
I'm ready to accept any driver issues AMD or Intel have.
Not going to buy green team from now on.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,721 +4,821
That puts you in a powerful position.
I don't know what Intel's drivers are like but my RX 6800 XT is rock-solid.
That's a decision I made back in 2010. It turned out to be one of the best decisions that I ever made. You won't regret it.
They can price them the highest they want, they have almost a monopoly and AMD will closely follow, but the question is: can they sell them? I think not, at least, not as much as they expect. The mining is dead, the economy is on life support, people that have been waiting will wait longer, I mean, who the fk is going to rush and buy a 1000+$ card?
"Is this a deliberate strategy from Nvidia to limit losses from the high volume of RTX 30 series inventory left to be sold? By keeping the RTX 30 series somewhat attractive to buyers that could be the case, though at the cost of weakening the hype and demand for the new series. It's a fine line to tread and we'll only find out if they're successful in the weeks after launch"
This is exactly what`s happening. That`s their bet and they won`t back down, unless they`re forced by market conditions. I hope they`ll be crushed.
"Is this a deliberate strategy from Nvidia to limit losses from the high volume of RTX 30 series inventory left to be sold? By keeping the RTX 30 series somewhat attractive to buyers that could be the case, though at the cost of weakening the hype and demand for the new series. It's a fine line to tread and we'll only find out if they're successful in the weeks after launch"
This is exactly what`s happening. That`s their bet and they won`t back down, unless they`re forced by market conditions. I hope they`ll be crushed.
takaozo
Posts: 944 +1,479
I had drivers issues with ATI/AMD cards in the past. I stopped at Rx570 after the GPU and RAM clock's were stuck @100% after exiting RDR2.
Sold that card to a miner for $400 and got a 2060 at $500 last winter.
It's more than decent performance for me, but the card it's a Gigabyte and had to "ghetto mod" to keep temps under 70 Celsius. It just looks ugly compared to rest of the system.
Edit: in my profile picture you can see the mod
Sold that card to a miner for $400 and got a 2060 at $500 last winter.
It's more than decent performance for me, but the card it's a Gigabyte and had to "ghetto mod" to keep temps under 70 Celsius. It just looks ugly compared to rest of the system.
Edit: in my profile picture you can see the mod
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Used GPUs are not flooding the market as expected. Kinda strange if you ask me...
takaozo
Posts: 944 +1,479
Not strange, some miners moved to other coins for now. Others are trying to sell as close as possible to MSRP. A guy at work has 10 pcs. Asus TUF 3060 he try to sell close to MSRP. The guy made a loan last summer to buy those.
What a world.......
Neatfeatguy
Posts: 1,616 +3,045
Maybe Nvidia paid off big miners to just dump cards and not sell them on the used market?
Or maybe some miners are holding off to see what else pops up as the next best coin to mine?
terzaerian
Posts: 1,517 +2,260
A lot of former GPU miners are probably holding out hope that another POW will moon, but I think the landscape is too fragmented; Ravencoin, Ergo, Eth Classic (and technically, ETHW) are all jockeying for it and all of them seem to have pretty entrenched communities. At some point they'll have to liquidate something to keep running.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,721 +4,821
People are still trying to get as much as they can for them, at least for now.
Let's look on the bright side. Prices are steadily getting lower and we are not all lamenting the insanity of the crypto boom anymore. I for one am happy. My target price range is around $500. I paid around $400 for a 1070Ti in 2017, so for me something that is equivalent to a GPU just shy of the $500 range. I am really hoping that the new AMD cards can make this a real option for me.
Am I happy with the new nvidia pricing, not at all. More than just the price, it is the size and power needs of the card. The joke now seems to be that you need to plug your MB/CPU into your GPU card.
For some context:
1) 1080 Ti was released in 2017 at $699. Inflation adjusted for today it would cost $850.
2) The Titan Xp (maybe this is a more realistic comparison to the 4090?) was released in 2017 at $1200 and is inflation adjusted to $1500. The MSRP for the 4090 will be $1,600, which is actually pretty close.
I guess it is all about perspective.
Am I happy with the new nvidia pricing, not at all. More than just the price, it is the size and power needs of the card. The joke now seems to be that you need to plug your MB/CPU into your GPU card.
For some context:
1) 1080 Ti was released in 2017 at $699. Inflation adjusted for today it would cost $850.
2) The Titan Xp (maybe this is a more realistic comparison to the 4090?) was released in 2017 at $1200 and is inflation adjusted to $1500. The MSRP for the 4090 will be $1,600, which is actually pretty close.
I guess it is all about perspective.
yRaz
Posts: 6,397 +9,459
"inflation" says that those are what the prices should be, wages say that they can go pound salt. I'm fortunate enough to have a good job now but I remember what it was like working 2 jobs to barely pay my bills. And even though wages have gone up since covid, the increase in wages hasn't kept up with the rate of inflation. In the last 2 years I've watched the cost of my groceries go from $50/week to over $100/week and my pantry hasn't changed much.
Rdmetz
Posts: 425 +211
I don't even let my cards become a generation old... I buy day 1 of any new "best bang for buck" higher end gpu and I sell it right before the next one.
I do have to do a bit of predicting but in every generation since the GTX 780 I've gotten it right and doing this my gpu costs have been kept to a minimum... For years the average out of pocket cost for upgrading my pc was about $200 a year but of the last couple upgrades (from the 2080ti to 3080ti with a 308ó in between) I've actually made money.
I saw the crash coming back in early May and expecting new gpu's in July sold my 3080ti for $1650 while I've had to go without my high end gpu for longer than expected I'm glad to have $1650 of "free" money to spend on this gen and should guarantee that whichever card I go with it will be another generation of free upgrades.
Realistically people should stop shopping by sku "tiers" and comparing gen on gen upgrades between names and instead they should be focused on the amount of spend and power usage vs the performance.
As long you're getting more fps for the same money without huge power increase providing all the lift then it's "worthwhile" upgrade.
Cost should factor inflation in as well like you said but if you're typical gpu upgrade was always say $600 and maybe last time that got you a x80 class gpu... If this time it only gets you say a xx60ti as long as you're getting a significant bump in performance and it's not some massive increase in lower usage then it's still an "upgrade"
People are going to have to get past the idea that they'll forever be able to buy the same tier gpu they always have for the same money spend from a decade before.
Especially when the "top" gpu sku of the past isn't even the actual top anymore it basically tells you they've shuffled everyone down a peg and you'll either have to accept the new "lower" label or spend the new increase in cost.
My rule of thumb I've always gone by is if I can get atleast 30% more performance and not spend more money then it's worth it regardless of name. I'm willing to spend more and have but I expect the increase in cost to deliver a equal bump in performance above this base standard.
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Just buy a 240HZ 1080P monitor + used GTX 1080 and play 99 percent of all the games 60+ fps.
I have two systems RTX 3070 and a 1080GTX both on 1080P 240hz monitors. I can't tell them apart when playing games. Sure benchmark wise the 3070 is faster but playing wise not enough of a difference to matter. You can get a used 1080 for like 150.00.
I would not waste money on these over priced cards. 3070 was 500.00 two years ago. Guess what its still 500.00 and its ready to be put out to pasture. The marker is being manipulated. Good ole fashion greed. Covid has be the excuse that keeps on giving.
I have two systems RTX 3070 and a 1080GTX both on 1080P 240hz monitors. I can't tell them apart when playing games. Sure benchmark wise the 3070 is faster but playing wise not enough of a difference to matter. You can get a used 1080 for like 150.00.
I would not waste money on these over priced cards. 3070 was 500.00 two years ago. Guess what its still 500.00 and its ready to be put out to pasture. The marker is being manipulated. Good ole fashion greed. Covid has be the excuse that keeps on giving.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,721 +4,821
Oh I seriously doubt that. The amount that they'd have to shell out would essentially erase all of the profit that they raked in over the past two years. That's just not happening.
Neatfeatguy
Posts: 1,616 +3,045
Grocery prices have certainly jumped in the past 12 months. Used to be around $200 for my family of 4. Now it's always $250 or more. That's every 12 days on average.
Roughly 30 grocery store runs for a year (probably a few extra in there, but 30 is a nice round number).
$200 x 30 = $6k
$250 x 30 = $7500
The price gouging is no joke. I hope this crap stops and prices start going down....I'm still waiting on gas to go down around me. Still holding around $3.75....greedy F'ers.
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