Graphics cards keep getting more expensive as RDNA 2 closes in on peak price

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
Flatulence aside, this is a lost opportunity for Intel taking their time and when they do launch a worthy discreet GPU they better deliver!
Keep your pants on. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are semiconductor manufacturing facilities.
What happened to Ch!na banning cryptomining and flooding the market with used gpus? The mining farms were the most to benefit by purchasing on the dip.
Currently the back log is 1 year long.
I'm farting mad about this myself. :mad:
I was the only one predicting that the dip will be short lived followed by even higher prices.
You told us so, check.
 
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godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
Keep your pants on. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are semiconductor facilities.

I'm farting mad about this myself. :mad:

You told us so, check.
I said that the misinformation was spread with no questions from tech journalist from a source that has no freelance and independent journalism. I also said if you have the opportunity to purchase the card as close to MSRP as possible go for it ( that was when you seen prices no longer falling ) . The mining farms don't want to pay sky high prices either, if my predictions are correct the cycle will continue ( spreading misinformation to cause a sell panic) to buy on the dip.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,752   +5,195
Flatulence aside, this is a lost opportunity for Intel taking their time and when they do launch a worthy discreet GPU they better deliver!
What happened to Ch!na banning cryptomining and flooding the market with used gpus? The mining farms were the most to benefit by purchasing on the dip.
Currently the back log is 1 year long.
I was the only one predicting that the dip will be short lived followed by even higher prices.
IMO, I think it remains to be seen whether sIntel will ever release a "worthy" discrete GPU.

To me, it is more likely that sIntel is playing yet another attention getting scheme to make it look like they are still doing something, or aimed as rectifying their less than stellar relationship to computer enthusiasts who know better and exposed :scream: them, šŸ¤£ in the past.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,752   +5,195
The mining farms don't want to pay sky high prices either, if my predictions are correct the cycle will continue ( spreading misinformation to cause a sell panic) to buy on the dip.
As the Rolling Stones once said, "you can't always get what you want".
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
Pretty soon, we will have the fossil fuel lobby selling Methane as yet another "clean fuel" and one that goes a long way to reducing the environmental effects of livestock farming ;) - for those of us who do not want to give up our Beef. šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£
All you really need to do, is hire people to walk around behind the cattle and light a match when necessary. Not only that, but a local hack/politician, could take credit for, "job creation" :rolleyes:

There, there, now, all felids are obligate carnivores. We great apes are not. Speaking of felidae, you give a lion 20 pounds or so of raw meat, and he'll give you a pile of crap you can't get near until it dries out for days.

Besides, meat is hard to digest and has long gut transit times. The net result of this is, it makes us fart during the digestive process. Mean, nasty, manly farts, that smell like burning gunpowder, sprinkled over a rotting corpse. So then, cow farts truly are, "the gift that keeps on giving".:poop::bomb:
As the Rolling Stones once said, "you can't always get what you want".
"But if you try sometimes, you'll get what you need" Say for example, CPUs with built in IGPs. :rolleyes:
 
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godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
Question for the experts if you purchase a card at MSRP and wanted to break even how much would one have to sell it for on Ebay? Probably why following EBay's pricing has flaw to it because the prices currently would never fall to MSRP.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
. I also said if you have the opportunity to purchase the card as close to MSRP as possible go for it ( that was when you seen prices no longer falling )
It pains me to say something as hurtful as this but, "you have a remarkable grasp of the obvious".

Anyway, the list price of a lowly GTX-1650 at the time of release of was $149,95. And good f**king luck buying one for that. (Even in a "dip").

See, I can state the obvious as well, with ease and aplomb
 
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godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
It pains me to say something as hurtful as this but, "you have a remarkable grasp of the obvious".

Anyway, the list price of a lowly GTX-1650 at the time of release of was $149,95. And good f**king luck buying one for that. (Even in a "dip").

See, I can state the obvious as well, with ease and aplomb
At $149 plus taxes shipping and ebay fees how much would one have to sell it to break even?
Update are the gtx 1650 even selling close to that from any retailers before scalpers?
The cheapest I see it is on EVGA at $159 before taxes and shipping.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
At $149 plus taxes shipping and ebay fees how much would one have to sell it to break even?
Update are the gtx 1650 even selling close to that from any retailers before scalpers?
The cheapest I see it is on EVGA at $159 before taxes and shipping.
At this point, I can only surmise that you don't know how to use, "break even", in a sentence.

To "break even", you would sell it for exactly what you paid for it plus perhaps your tax and shipping costs. That's what "break even" means..

What "break even" doesn't mean, is how much it would currently cost to buy the same card, at current price.
 

godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
At this point, I can only surmise that you don't know how to use, "break even", in a sentence.

To "break even", you would sell it for exactly what you paid for it plus perhaps your tax and shipping costs. That's what "break even" means..

What "break even" doesn't mean, is how much it would currently cost to buy the same card, at current price.
Well plus ebay fees*. My point is that is why we haven't seen the prices on eBay fall under that threshold of breaking even.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
Well plus ebay fees*. My point is that is why we haven't seen the prices on eBay fall under that threshold of breaking even.
Sure, with Ebay fees at what 10%? Whatever you have invested in the card itself,plus 10%, plus any tax or shipping charges you encountered, would allow you to "break even".
For convenience let's say you paid MSRP $150.00, add 10% for the Ebay fee, we're at $165.00 , plus your sales tax paid, say 6%, We're at $174.00, say $10.00 shipping you paid, it comes to $184.00 (give or take) for a true, "break even",

But we both know the card is selling for about 2X list, or about $300.00. That figure has nothing to do with your "break even" point..

If you want to be technical about it, the idea that, buy it when it is at its lowest dip, doesn't hold water either. Since, you don't know how low it's. going to go, until it starts to rise again.

We all know also, that the cards are selling for double MSRP, and here again, you're stating the obvious.

Not to mention any retailer with even one brain cell working will see scalpers doubling or tripling the MSRP, and people desperate enough to pay it. So naturally, they're going to try and cash in, not by selling at MSRP, but by merely undercutting the scalpers.

.In parable form, the scalper says to Newegg, "how are you going to outrun the lion", and Newegg says, "I don't have to outrun the lion, I just have to outrun you"..(BTW, "the lion", is a metaphor for MSRP).
 
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godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
Sure, with Ebay fees at what 10%? Whatever you have invested in the card itself,plus 10%, plus any tax or shipping charges you encountered, would allow you to "break even".
For convenience let's say you paid MSTP $150.00, add 10% for the Ebay fee, we're at $165.00 , plus your sales tax paid, sat 6%, We're at $174.00, say $10.00 shipping you paid, it comes to $184.00 (give or take) for a true, "break even",

But we both know the card is selling for about 2X list, or about $300.00. That figure has nothing to do with your "break even" point..

If you want to be technical about it, the idea that, buy it when it is at its lowest dip, doesn't hold water either. Since, you don't know how low it's. going to go, until it starts to rise again.

We all know also, that the cards are selling for double MSRP, and here again, you're stating the obvious.

Not to mention any retailer with even one brain cell working will see scalpers doubling or tripling the MSRP, and people desperate enough to pay it. So naturally, they're going to try and cash in, not by selling at MSRP, but by merely undercutting the scalpers.

.In parable form, the scalper says to Newegg, "how are you going to outrun the lion", and Newegg says, "I don't have to outrun the lion, I just have to outrun you"..
Ebay fees are added after the taxes and fees though lets say $159.99 that I was able to find ( at evga current price at msrp ) plus 9% taxes and shipping charges around $20 x 1.1 ebay fees and you get to $214 breaking even price. Although I believe because the pool of potential buyers are bigger on the bottom the market didn't allow the price to reach this as well and the higher you go to the top of the gpu chain the closer you get to that breaking even price.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
Ebay fees are added after the taxes and fees though lets say $159.99 that I was able to find ( at evga current price at msrp ) plus 9% taxes and shipping charges around $20 x 1.1 ebay fees and you get to $214 breaking even price. Although I believe because the pool of potential buyers are bigger on the bottom the market didn't allow the price to reach this as well and the higher you go to the top of the gpu chain the closer you get to that breaking even price.
OK, if you're a dealer, you will be, (or at least should be), paying less than the current MSRP to buy the unit in the first place. If you buy the unit as a seller, you won't be paying sales tax on it either, that gets passed on the the final buyer/user. So, it's back to the abacus for you.

The seller's profit is calculated into the MSRP. So, you get two entirely different sets of calculations for what you're calling, "the break even point". But that's only if you're an authorized dealer.

If you bought the card at retail, with the intention of scalping it, then obviously your "break even point", will be higher.
 
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godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
OK, if you're a dealer, you will be, (or at least should be), paying less than the current MSRP to buy the unit in the first place. If you buy the unit as a seller, you won't be paying sales tax on it either, that gets passed on the the final buyer/user. So, it's back to the abacus for you.
Lol. Love that.
So if you happened to purchase a card currently from EVGA they will not charge you taxes? Ebay consist more than certified dealers that get special prices. I am not talking about professional scalpers either just ordinary consumers who make a bulk of the market. As a regular consumer you will have to purchase a product with sales tax.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
Lol. Love that.
So if you happened to purchase a card currently from EVGA they will not charge you taxes? Ebay consist more than certified dealers that get special prices. I am not talking about professional scalpers either just ordinary consumers who make a bulk of the market. As a regular consumer you will have to purchase a product with sales tax.
You are annoying, no doubt about it How about if I dial that back to "under informed"? EVGA won't sell you the card at anything less than MSRP, and will charge you tax, for the simple reason, they're obligated to protect their dealers. In other words, they can't sell at anything less than the MSRP., unless you're one of their registered dealers.

So no, John Q. Public can't walk in off the street and buy at dealer cost directly from EVGA. They will only sell an item at MSRP, unless you're one of their authorized distributors

That $160.00 card, probably only costs Newegg somewhere in the Neighborhood of $120.00. so that's Newegg's discount..allowing them to turn a profit from the final sale. And no, Newegg won't pay any sales tax either. They're licensed to collect tax for the state in which it's being sold. They take the money they collect in sales tax, and give it to the state where the buyer is resident. .

Here's a link to apply for a sales tax license in PA
 
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godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
You are annoying, no doubt about it How about if I dial that back to "under informed"? EVGA won't sell you the card at anything less than MSRP, and will charge you tax, for the simple reason, they're obligated to protect their dealers. In other words, they can't sell at anything less than the MSRP., unless you're one of their registered dealers.

So no, John Q. Public can't walk in off the street and buy at dealer cost directly from EVGA. They will only sell an item at MSRP, unless you're one of their authorized distributors

That $160.00 card, probably only costs Newegg somewhere in the Neighborhood of $120.00. so that's Newegg's discount..allowing them to turn a profit from the sale. And no, Newegg won't pay any sales tax either. They're licensed to collect tax for the state in which it's being sold. They take the money they collect in sales tax, and give it to the state .
Circling back to I am not talking about Newegg but the regular consumer that are selling on Ebay. I am sorry if my curiosity triggers you.
Also the high end gpus were selling for 20 to 25% above MSRP on eBay.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
I'm just trying to get you to know the difference between an authorized dealer, and someone buying a card, "factory direct".

With the concept of "dealer protection" in mind, EVGA will bang up a retail customer for everything, the item at list, the sales tax, and shipping. The whole idea being, whatever deal Newegg is going to give you, will be better than the customer can get from EVGA. They're basically steering retail customers toward their authorized dealers.

So, if you're not a dealer, you'll pay full pop, and obviously all those charges will jack up your "break even point"

Besides, given the state of the market, it's possible that EVGA doesn't even have a card to sell you at list price, as whatever they had, has likely been scooped up by scalpers.
 

godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
I'm just trying to get you to know the difference between an authorized dealer, and someone buying a card, "factory direct".

With the concept of "dealer protection" in mind, EVGA will bang up a retail customer for everything, the item at list, the sales tax, and shipping. The whole idea being, whatever deal Newegg is going to give you, will be better than the customer can get from EVGA. They're basically steering retail customers toward their authorized dealers.

So, if you're not a dealer, you'll pay full pop, and obviously all those charges will jack up your "break even point"
So how do you explain why we didn't see prices fall to MSRP at the dip? Hmm?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,682   +6,463
So how do you explain why we didn't see prices fall to MSRP at the dip? Hmm?
Go back to my lion analogy. Believe it or not, that fully explains it. The scalpers bought all the cards they possibly could using shopping bots. Then they marked up the cards double or triple MSRP .People willingly (?) paid at those vastly inflated prices.

Given that, why should the cards ever retreat to MSRP, until supply exceeds demand? Which we all agree isn't going to happen for at least a year.
 

Mr Majestyk

Posts: 928   +821
Yet somehow my 2080 super is still working but I guess 100fps at 1440p ultra is just pathetic compared to 130fps. First world problems. If m0r0ns stopped buying the over-priced cards in the first place there would be real change.
 

Nobina

Posts: 3,418   +3,530
Yet somehow my 2080 super is still working but I guess 100fps at 1440p ultra is just pathetic compared to 130fps. First world problems. If m0r0ns stopped buying the over-priced cards in the first place there would be real change.
60 FPS isn't enough anymore for a lot of people, not because they have insane vision, but because their favorite tech YouTuber told them so and there's always pressure to buy the newest product. I understand for competitive games like CSGO over 60 FPS and 144Hz is beneficial but for most games it is not.

Today people buy GPUs for vanity. I've seen Reddit posts with people upgrading from 3080 to 3090 and from 5800X to 5900X, wish I was kidding.
 

godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
Go back to my lion analogy. Believe it or not, that fully explains it. The scalpers bought all the cards they possibly could using shopping bots. Then they marked up the cards double or triple MSRP .People willingly (?) paid at those vastly inflated prices.

Given that, why should the cards ever retreat to MSRP, until supply exceeds demand? Which we all agree isn't going to happen for at least a year.
Thank you I needed that.
My abacus does derivatives. We started with flatulence and ended up with diarrhea. Jk.
The Shyte show continues
 
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A mid-level to high-end GPU should last someone a good 4 to 5 years.
I really don't see a problem here... other than money grabbing.
( double entente on purpose)

No better way to break an out-of-control, 'upgrade & FPS chase', 'for no real good reason' mentality. A whole lot of folks are going to re-calibrate their behaviors. And to me... that's a positive!

The mining thing? ... c'est la vie

The fact that 1080 Ti was able to last this long is completely abnormal for GPUs. From price/performance perspective CPU's and GPU's basically swapped places in the last 5 years.

GPUs saw almost zero gains in price/performance thanks to shortage, $700 1080Ti -> $1000 3060 Ti? It's really bad.

Meanwhile CPU's become massively better for the same price. We've gone from 4c/8t 7700k for $350 in 2017 to $450 12700k which are basically 2-4x faster depending on the load. Or you could get 10100f for $60 which is basically almost = 7700k

Extremely good time for CPU purchase. Extremely bad time for GPU purchase.