Why do you ignore the fact that the Ukrainian Nazi government killed over 20,000 Eastern Ukrainians over the last 8 years?
ICANN rejects request by Ukraine to kick Russia off the internet
- Thread starter Sayak Biswas
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Why do you ignore the fact that the Ukrainian Nazi government killed over 20,000 Eastern Ukrainians over the last 8 years?
The issue is they start punishing countries like that, we'll end up with no Internet, the USA would be first to be cut off, China, East Europe, Middle East, lots of European countries... Etc
The solution is to mediate and find a peaceful end to this war, maybe China could put some pressure and Israel of all countries apparently is helping (understandable given that they have good experience terrorising civilians), punishing Russians doesn't solve the issue it just makes it worse, what ordinary Russians thinks of these sanctions against them, they have Putin, now they can include those countries sanctioning them to the list.
Bullwinkle M
Posts: 911 +817
ZedRM
Posts: 1,804 +1,207
Nope, didn't know about it, not sure I believe you either. And that is NOT the issue at hand. This is about Putin being a pathetic bully and the rest of the world issuing actions that so him that there will be penalties for tyrannical behaviour.
kiwigraeme
Posts: 1,999 +1,410
I say you are wrong - JFK father thought England was a goner .
Putin is stupid - he thought Ukraine will role over - they didn't
He is burning through cannon fodder - leaving undead young Russians unburied - not taken home . Most of his army don't believe in killing their brothers and sisters .
The Superpower is just nukes - that's it - their army, planes are crap - badly maintained - and profit centres for corrupt leaders - parts for the lower echelons to sell off on the black market .
They can not control the airspace , hold towns . The are sitting ducks for javilins , drones/mortars , AT 4s . Stingers - Turkish drones - These weapons are piliing in - the freedom defense force/returnees is piling in.
Nearly every neutral non-aligned country has turned against them .
They have food fuel , logistic problems .
Ukrainians can fire mortars , shoulder held large round bullets , rockets with a large amount of impunity - mine roads etc
Russians are starting to strike , protest .
They have to worry about their puppet govts in Belarus , Checknya
Russia ships can't land in many countries
The economy is crap
His special police are crap fighters
Putin is showing his weakness - every threat , every bellicose statement is a sign of weakness
Russia is not a Superpower except for Nukes
They got lost in Georgia - The Checknya war was won only through cannon fodder and huge material loses and war crimes
They lost in Afghanistan - Their Army is an illusion - they have limited working planes , limited high quality tanks etc - they probably have limited stockpiles
They don't have enough soldiers to hold Ukraine - in sustained warfare without going to drafting .
They have border issues with China - in Siberia
You have parts of Russian that are not Russian in the east
You have people who have tasted Turkish . western holidays , materialism
You have old people who Putin can't control
You have young who know it's not right
So much winning
These sanctions will stay for years if necessary
Russia has shown it's teeth and it is a sham
ZedRM
Posts: 1,804 +1,207
They are not as weak as you suggest, but you are not wrong about them not being as strong as they present themselves.
Bullwinkle M
Posts: 911 +817
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks (for or against Russia) and that's why I remained neutral
I am simply looking at what Russia "WILL DO" to secure their access to the bases and the sea without interference from the west
They would not have attacked Ukraine if there was no interference in Ukraine by the West or from Nato would they ?
For what reason ?
Democracy cannot and will not prevail in Ukraine if it threatens Russian Security
This is a fact
They will escalate this as far as it needs to go
If you have any evidence to the contrary, please present it
I can agree with facts, but not the propaganda presented so far
Sausagemeat
Posts: 1,597 +1,423
Banning people like me won’t change the facts. Nazis do operate in the Ukraine, this has been widely reported, even by the western press. You have to be extremely ignorant to pretend they don’t exist. I urge you, instead of humiliating yourself and demanding the truth gets silenced, do some actual research. This conflict is far more complicated than you think.
Oh and just because I advocate the truth doesn’t mean I advocate Russias actions. Putin has still invaded another country. It’s an overkill response to Nazi incursions and US meddling, however, this doesn’t absolve the USAs involvement in the region.
P.S. advocating censorship of viewpoints you disagree with is incredibly hypocritical here. This is a very “pro-Russian” stance to hold, western values typically include freedom of speech. And in this case, much of this conflict has been born from the silencing of Russians within the Ukraine.
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kiwigraeme
Posts: 1,999 +1,410
Yeah you are probably right - some wishful thinking - but at what cost to power up a war machine ? - Their military is part of their psyche . Deep down no matter how deluded Russians are this is not Mother Russia defending it's cubs.
I think that is why Putin is framing it as a NATO offensive - let's pretend we are fighting of NATO to defend our babies - and not killing our relatives
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
This has nothing to do with “nazis” in Ukraine.... that’s just a convenient excuse for Putin to invade. I mean, FFS, their president is Jewish!
Russia has always desired a buffer between itself and the west. They are almost completely paranoid that the west will invade them and their borders are virtually indefensible without buffer states...
To be fair, Russian has a pretty decent reason to be paranoid - they have been invaded multiple times by the Swedes, Poles, French, Germans and more for centuries...
Russia has always desired a buffer between itself and the west. They are almost completely paranoid that the west will invade them and their borders are virtually indefensible without buffer states...
To be fair, Russian has a pretty decent reason to be paranoid - they have been invaded multiple times by the Swedes, Poles, French, Germans and more for centuries...
A little over a week after invading a neighboring nation, Putin GFY just a little while ago claimed that sanctions against Russia are "an act of war".
I s**t you not.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/FZHXSG57UVL7NMQ6I7G2KNOTNE.jpg)
www.reuters.com
Hard to believe the garbage that comes from the mouth of that as****e.
This dude is so delusional, I don't doubt that he believes this is still his position:
I s**t you not.
Putin says Western sanctions are akin to declaration of war
President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday that Western sanctions on Russia were akin to a declaration of war and warned that any attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine would lead to catastrophic consequences for the world.
www.reuters.com
Hard to believe the garbage that comes from the mouth of that as****e.
This dude is so delusional, I don't doubt that he believes this is still his position:
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I feel all these sanctions against any nations, and in this case Russia to just make ordinary life of people in the country miserable. On one hand, nations talk about humanitarian aid, which I find omitting the innocent citizens in Russia (innocent because they did not ask for the invasion) quite ironic. A lot of people are quick to agree to all these sanctions, but did not put themselves in the shoes of the ordinary citizens. Imagine your country’s leaders decided to do something in which you are not part of or agreeable to, and you get slapped left right and center with limitations and sanctions here and there, how would you feel? And we have seen many times that authorities of nations don’t make decisions based on what benefit their citizens. They make decisions that is profitable or beneficial to themselves, while turning a deaf ear to people’s feedbacks.
As for the Ukrainian leaders, I am not sure why they seems to be so free to be writing to leaders of nations and companies to slap more sanctions. It’s like, “Hi Tim Cook, while the Russians are shelling us this present moment, I am writing to you to request that you stop any business with the Russians”. Is it meaningful in times like this when any sanctions will not deter Russia’s actions?
As for the Ukrainian leaders, I am not sure why they seems to be so free to be writing to leaders of nations and companies to slap more sanctions. It’s like, “Hi Tim Cook, while the Russians are shelling us this present moment, I am writing to you to request that you stop any business with the Russians”. Is it meaningful in times like this when any sanctions will not deter Russia’s actions?
Beerfloat
Posts: 848 +1,573
Hey look it's Benedict Arnold from the surrender caucus. Never try to fight tyrrany, just roll over and submit.
Imagine what the world would look like if everybody listened to guys like this modern day Neville Chamberlain.
Fulljack
Posts: 116 +97
you're not presenting any facts, you doofus. you're stating your opinions. do you even know the differences between those two? don't get it mixed up!
what if the situation turned around? what if Ukrainian feels threatened toward Russian dictatorship? any arguments that say how Ukraine destabilize Russian stability never state about how Ukraine autonomy and sovereignty are destabilized by Russia. thus, making it easy to label as one-sided propaganda.
so you think might makes right? holy **** is this 19th century? I bet you also support slavery because otherwise those African are going to die from famine, right? see, two can play this game.
sorry bro. any nationalist would die for their land. sure, you could say their blood is in their government hands, yadda yadda, but as long as people feels oppressed, they'll still stand up against oppressors no matter what their government told them. remember the IRA? remember French resistance? remember even how parts of Wehrmacht are resisting against Hitler and plans to assassinate him?
think a for second and tell me. if Ukraine did what Russian did, is it justified? if not, you're a hypocrite who believes in might makes right. if yes, you're a war-monger supporter.
Fulljack
Posts: 116 +97
that's the point of sanctions and globalization...
globalization has made that no country need to increase their borders. through economic cooperation and cultural exchange, they don't need that extra piece of land. pushing the use of a diplomatic solution to get a win-win solution, that's the idea of 20th century modern diplomacy—through pen and paper, and not war.
thus, making all act of war unnecessary and if any country did it, they'll face heavy repercussions from the international community. see where is this going?
okay, let me explain further.
the fastest way to stop war is by making it's citizen of warring countries feels disillusioned about the war. by any means, it'll make them feels like they're in the wrong, they feel disturbed/annoyed, they wanted to stop, thus pulling it out of the war. sanctions exactly serve that. to make the citizens feels that they're paying for their government mistake, thus hoping for them to push their agenda internally.
in the 21st century, you don't need war. that's aggresion. use diplomacy instead.
Fulljack
Posts: 116 +97
"will"? yeah, right. you're saying it with 100% certainty that Russia will absorb Ukraine and serving it as a fact. what a tool, that's a propaganda, not a fact. as I've said, learn the differences.
by your logic, this is also about what threatens Ukraine security and stability. thus the sanctions to Russia, and the aid to Ukraine. otherwise Ukraine as an independent and sovereign nation won't even exist anymore.
to be honest, that's exactly the doctrine of scorched earth. if you feels that you're in the right, you'll use all your might to stop the aggression of opposing nations. you'll make it as that the war are useless (which it is, no act of aggression in 21st century are justified you sick ****). if it means throwing nuclear arsenal to prove your point, then so be it. luckily (or unlucky maybe) for your strawman, Ukraine doesn't have any nuclear weapons per Budapest Agreement of 1994.
if Russia will use nuclear warhead to annihilate Ukraine, it'll show how crazy Putin or the Russia government just to make their point. it doesn't show that they're trying to achieve stability nor security. on the contrary, it shows how war-mongering their government are. they won't stop at Ukraine, why would they? quick, naivëty quiz! they already have their ways on Georgia. they already have their ways on Crimea. if they already have their ways on Ukraine, will they stop there?
if you do have a brain, use it to search what is the definition of fact. try that instead of being an armchair geopolitics observer.
That's right, never engage with an argument. Only do Ad Hominems. Guy just created his account on a news site - definitely a bot! Nobody ever reads news sites without registering an account there! Don't listen to what he has to say, it might be dangerous! He might make too much sense, some people might actually find out about all the SS parades, pro-Nazi statues, Bandera avenues and Nazi kids education in Ukraine and that people were being slaughtered in Ukraine for the last 8 years and then your phantasy of Ukranian Nazis being the good guys goes down the drain. It's all just a few google searches away. Quick, report his comment so it gets deleted! Look at that, it got deleted as off topic as if anyone here is talking about ICANN. Success! Right as your masters want it. Good boy. Just proved what my comment was saying. You are all sheepish dogs that bark on command. I ask again: where is your outrage about 400 000 dead in the genocide of Yemen, about entire cities flattened in Syria, about destruction of entire countries of Lybia and Iraq? Lets talk about ICANN and why had it not cut NATO countries out of the internet yet?
merikafyeah
Posts: 359 +345
Who cares about freedom when shackles allow you to live longer amirite?
kiwigraeme
Posts: 1,999 +1,410
I've also heard the argument - Putin does not want surrounding countries to even try to have proper democracy , or to become successful - it will reflect badly on Russia's slow economic progress - much better to have a puppet govt and corruption . Think both arguments hold
YouShallNotPass
Posts: 61 +142
Not only they should not disconnect the web to Russia, they should protect and make sure they have access to it without restriction. All kind of people in Russia need to know what's going on in the world. They need good information to make good decision. They need to see their situation from different angles and not rely on the official Russia media as source of news. The less information they got, the easier they will be manipulated. I don't want to see another big nation with heavy brainwashed next generation who will do whatever their leader ask them to do without doubting in the next 10 years, which will make this planet less safe.
Fulljack
Posts: 116 +97
the argument is source or gtfo
you're calling out others for using ad hominem yet you yourself engage in whataboutism—the basis of your entire argument.
anyone who despises pro-Ukrainian supporter are usually mentally weird
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Beerfloat
Posts: 848 +1,573
No need to flatter yourself, friend.
There are Neo-Nazi movements in most countries, including Russia itself. There will always be some people that are naturally drawn to contrarianism and extremism. As long as these groups remain fringe, it is not a serious problem.
It is also not anywhere near a legitimate justification for this invasion of a neighboring country. Really, it is nothing more than a flimsy talking point to confuse the feeble minded.
Whataboutism is not interesting. You should try something else.
Are you f******g serious? You fail to mention the appalling number of Ukrainians killed there too, not to mention why the fighting was happening in the first place. You also didn't bother to mention that what has been going on in Donbas was a war against Russian backed separatists.
You Putin (GFY) apologists make me sick.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,763 +9,646
Whatever it is he's on, its gotta be worse than that since it seems to have severed his contact with the real world.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,763 +9,646
Absolutely. I cannot believe the Better Red than Dead attitudes of people who supposedly worship freedom.
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