If Apple built a $299 "Neo" desktop PC, Windows would have a real problem

[abactuon]

Just show the results of the Speedometer 3.1 test for this laptop.

 

[opckieran]

My guess, at max, it'll be a $400 product.

The Neo has been far more popular than even Apple anticipated, burning through all their A18Pro supply at a rate they couldn't believe. Clearly demand isn't an issue here. This, coupled with the insane cost of DRAM and SSDs, leads me to doubt they'd want to go below $400, let alone $300. And remember, they've still got their premier image to maintain. A desktop below $400 is almost a nonstarter for them at this point.

 

[trparky]

And remember, they've still got their premier image to maintain.

So if that's the case, why release the Neo? Seems kind of counter-intuitive to maintaining their "premium" brand image yet here we are, they released it and it's a massive success.

A desktop below $400 is almost a nonstarter for them at this point.

People used to say that about a sub-$600 notebook from Apple yet, here we are.

All I can say is that we live in strange times.

 

[daffy duck]

And yet despite that they STILL shat all over the PC industry's face with the NEO.

So if that is the bare minimum....what is the rest of the industry's excuse?
you are part of a tin minority. Easily 90% of people who use computers need nothing more powerful then an Iphone to do what they need (web browsing, paying bills, watching videos).

It goes to show how powerful mobile tech has become.

I'd love to see a phone cpu play real games even at 1080p like desktop cpu and gpu. Maybe you think no one that pays bills etc plays games.

 

[trparky]

I'd love to see a phone cpu play real games even at 1080p like desktop cpu and gpu. Maybe you think no one that pays bills etc plays games.

What is your definition of "real games"? Lately there hasn't been a release yet that's made me go... "Yeah, I need to buy that!" Most of my games are older titles that aren't nearly as demanding.

 

[adaplect]

I find OneDrive great and genuinely useful for sharing files with others.
Apple makes great hardware by I'd choose Windows over MacOS any day (I have both and I very much prefer my Windows desktop)

 

[alexnode]

Apple is great in the prosumer market, but in number crunching heavy loads they have let things slip. I can certainly see apple getting the cheap desktop market. But 3D heavy loads, AI, gaming even heavy compositing software like Nuke etc... I don't see them going for that market. But they could definitely make a perfectly fine cheap desktop for word, design, photo, audio and reasonable video processing.

 

[guillejp]

299? In this economy??? 299??? WTF are u smoking?
It's a very cool and smart though experiment but 499 would be the more realistic target while already being ridiculously cheap, since the Mac Mini already exists and is 599, and is already ridiculously underpriced and fitting the role of the hypothetical Mac Neo.

 

[ET3D]

The question is, why would Apple do it? Desktop is about 20% of sales, while laptops are 80%. Desktop is a marginal market. Of those desktops, a significant portion are gaming machines, which Apple doesn't have the software ecosystem for, nor would a Neo style machine with 8GB of RAM be good for that. Apple could sell to businesses that are still interested in desktops, but the Mac Mini is probably good enough on that front, and I think that a cheaper Neo style Mac Mini won't significantly alter the market.

 

[GeoffreyA]

Hypothetically, it would be good if they did. Microsoft needs to wake up.

 

[vt2005ee1]

Well, Apple's Macintosh/Mac product line went through many tough decades before now, and the Mac volumes just aren't that high. Decades ago, Microsoft, Intel, and IBM essentially teamed up to create the longstanding Wintel monopoly. This monopoly wiped out Commodore, Atari, Tandy, etc. and almost nearly killed Apple (had it not been for Jobs returning and Gates/Microsoft providing a one-time investment around 97/98). Apple had tried licensing out System 7 to create Mac clones, but that just didn't work, as it undercut Apple's own hardware sales. At this point, and into Jobs's return, Apple went into innovation and survival mode, and they did ask premium prices for the hardware and just didn't let up. One excuse used to be the cost of using Intel and PowerPC chips, which could cost as much as $200 more versus what Apple now spends to use its own designs. The transition from using PowerPC, Intel to Apple Silicon has been fairly slow and gradual, and, really, it's only been within the last few years that an A18 or A19 can help to reduce costs (even under that of the M series) in Macbooks. This is due to the relatively high volume of iPhones produced.

So, I am just doubtful that Apple could have been dominate with the Mac product line over decades. Apple never had the chip and hardware volume to offer lower prices, as many PC OEMS have the luxury of doing (because they pool their collective volumes for certain components and processors). Apple might be able to turn a corner in this regard with Ternus, as the company becomes more product-focused and since they seem to have been able to find a formula for larger volumes with the Macbook Neo.

Oh, and on those macOS "bugs": I'd take those macOS bugs over the trainwreck that is always a Windows update, any day.

 

[MiqWalsh]

Last week, I got so annoyed at Teams not loading on my Windows Laptop, I got permission from my company to use the Neo as a work laptop (BYOD policy) and on a genuinely serious note, what the actual f*ck are Microsoft up to?

Run it as the webapp in Chrome or one of the other Chromium 'clones'. That's what I do in Linux.....works fine for what I want from it. Even screen-sharing works properly these days.

Miq.

 

[Beardog]

There is NO possible way Apple would sell a desktop for $299.

To think they would is sheer fantasy or ignorance.

The Neo exists to capture the education market because the loss on the laptop is worth the lifetime spending on future adult Apple customers.

Selling cheap desktops just loses money from business and consumers while destroying premium pricing brand image for what? The small slice of the already small desktop (vs laptop) market of customers too poor to buy a $599 Mac Mini?

What's the next article - Auto Industry in trouble if BMW sells a $10,000 car?

When has Apple ever sold memory for $299?

 

[Beardog]

As an adult I use a 14in tablet for traveling and not a I feel like I'm toddler iPad OS. Home a real PC with 2 oled monitors. Need an environment that has ports to plug in all my toys. Apple deliberately makes you drain your wallet to do this. While lying about them being secure.

 

[Pastuch]

I've been a MS Exchange engineer for massive government organizations for 20 years. The windows ecosystem has been a dumpster fire for the last year. Windows updates are untested and create substantial issues at the enterprise level. Copilot is garbage compared to Gemini when it comes to data accuracy on Microsofts OWN PRODUCTS. Apple is up to 15% market share, devices like the Mac Mini and Macbook Neo will very likely continue that growth. Microsoft has a stranglehold on the gaming and enterprise markets but it has no idea how to make them both happy.

Kudos to Burty117 above, fascinating use of marginal hardware to do demanding work. This would not be possible in Windows with the same hardware. It would be cripplingly slow.

 

[Shirley Dulcey]

Let me ask you something... What power do you think professionals need? As @Burty117 said above, he's been able to turn a MacBook Neo into a real work powerhouse.

Wait a second, you say that a MacBook Neo isn't powerful enough yet as we can see from Burty117's post, it's more than capable of meeting his needs. Someone is wrong here and I don't think it's Burty117.

Now if a system with the hardware of a MacBook Neo was running Windows then yes, I would agree with you but it's not—it's running MacOS which isn't nearly the bloated piece of crap that is Windows.

He was talking about professional DJs, and I suspect the Neo would fall short there, at least in a club where you're also running video. In that application, your system has to not stutter, EVER, because that would interrupt the flow of music and video. Another limitation is that the Neo can only drive one external display.

 

[A Tabby Person]

He was talking about professional DJs, and I suspect the Neo would fall short there, at least in a club where you're also running video. In that application, your system has to not stutter, EVER, because that would interrupt the flow of music and video. Another limitation is that the Neo can only drive one external display.

Apple already has the pro DJ market cornered with MacBook Pros, has since Intel move in 2006. Pro DJs may be fully iPad Pro now, last show I was able to go to in 2019 ran the smallish venue soundboard through a 9.7 iPad.
Addressable market: how many pro DJs versus how many kitchen desktop computers. That’s where the puck will be aka where the volume play is. WinTel & i86 are dying, Apple & Snapdragon will be slugging it out now.

 

[LordVile95]

The issue heee is I/O. The A series chip is extremely limited to the point they can only offer a single USB 3 and 2 on the Neo. On a desktop that’s a non starter. They’d have to offer it with binned M2 or 3 chips

 

[LordVile95]

Apple already has the pro DJ market cornered with MacBook Pros, has since Intel move in 2006. Pro DJs may be fully iPad Pro now, last show I was able to go to in 2019 ran the smallish venue soundboard through a 9.7 iPad.
Addressable market: how many pro DJs versus how many kitchen desktop computers. That’s where the puck will be aka where the volume play is. WinTel & i86 are dying, Apple & Snapdragon will be slugging it out now.

Ironically Intels new mobile chips are miles ahead of snapdragon and windows for ARM is a dumpster fire

 

[Burty117]

I dont think its even about cooling. Those long delays are likely from swapping stuff on and off the SSD to wake the program.

It's a bit of both, yes those pauses when I've got the VM running is swap memory going beserk for a bit, but I've also noticed when you have Windows... well... being Windows, the CPU maxes out for a bit, which the Neo throttles pretty hard as the chip pretty much instantly heat soaks and throttles under more than 5-10 seconds of full load.

Luckily, the piece of software I need under Windows isn't particularly heavy as it's old, but the initial setup of Windows did take a hot minute.

The A19 pro with 12GB is going to be one to watch. Although if you want more, for $1k you can get a macbook air with 16GB of RAM and more storage. The M and A series are basically the same tech these days, the M just have moar cores.

The Neo has genuinely completely converted me, I've appologised to all my Mac loving friends, I was wrong, and have been wrong for some time, modern Apple Processors, MacOS and all the efficiency this brings is no joke, it makes Windows and it's partners look downright silly.

And before anyone says Qualcomm, be serious, they're a joke, drivers are rubbish and it either works, or just outright crashes, I've had the unfortunate luck of a client thinking they were smart and bought five Qualcomm powered laptops, their VPN client wasn't compatible, a piece of CAD software they use is old and just instantly crashes, it was horrendous, I have more stability using Windows ARM as a VM on a MacBook Neo than anything Qualcomm related.

 

[Burty117]

Run it as the webapp in Chrome or one of the other Chromium 'clones'. That's what I do in Linux.....works fine for what I want from it. Even screen-sharing works properly these days.

Miq.

I get that, but my work laptop is Windows 11, if Microsoft can't get Teams running well on their own OS, something is just terribly wrong over there.

On the Neo though, works faultlessly and screen sharing works well, didn't run into any issues after hours of calls and meetings, can't say the same for my Windows laptop.

Kudos to Burty117 above, fascinating use of marginal hardware to do demanding work. This would not be possible in Windows with the same hardware. It would be cripplingly slow.

Absolutely! A Windows laptop with 8GB of RAM can barely browse the web these days, let alone multiple apps open, I forgot to add to my original comment as well, I had my OneDrive synced and running, working with some Spreadsheets as a team.

 

[Aolish]

AMD and Nvidia drivers as well as game support are a problem on the mac, as well as other apps not being available, though that is becoming less of a problem as time passes. The only real advantage that Windows has right now over Mac OS is its sheer support for thousands of different hardware configurations, but if my memory serves me correctly, MS is even getting rid of that! This is one of the few interesting things that Windows has over Mac OS and it won't soon have that either. I feel like MS is their own worst enemy right now.

 

[ragreeen2646]

Are the comments sponsored by Apple?

 

[Watzupken]

I feel the Neo is as low end as Apple will want to go. There is not much profit to be made at the entry level tier and any increase in cost for Apple will cause them to lose money instead. So I do not think they will want to lose money for market share.

 

[trparky]

Are the comments sponsored by Apple?

Not my comments, no sir. Though if Apple wants to throw some cash my way, I wouldn’t exactly complain.