Intel grabs CPU market share back from AMD for first time in 3 years

Adi6293

Posts: 821   +1,106
I would say that because of Intel's massive power draw vs. AMD you're getting lower temperatures, not despite them. :laughing:

I can guarantee you that I'm not one of those people. I may never buy another Intel processor for as long as I live. I even stuck with my FX-8350 for five years and was fine with it despite Intel CPUs having better performance and power use the whole time. It's not like I suffered because my FX-8350 did all that I wanted it to and it was fine.

Meanwhile, people were blowing their money on Intel CPUs because they all had this stupid idea that they were somehow professional gamers with high-refresh displays. The upgrades were a joke because they were just re-hashed Sandy Bridge (and possibly still are) CPUs. Meanwhile, nobody really knows just how far behind we are in computer tech because of Intel's sandbagging but I guess that it's at least five years.

Intel can go pound salt as far as I'm concerned.

You know I too stuck with AMD through the FX "saga" I actually had 3 of them between 2 different PC's. FX8320 - FX8350 and FX9590, I've built few PC's for my friends with Phenom II X2 - X4 - FX and now Ryzen CPU's even my wife is running a 3700X and I had the 2700X and then 5800X I basically banned Intel for almost 10 years and nVidia for 7 but eventually you have to stop holding a grudge :p I got the i9 because it was hard not to for £409 I will keep it for a year or two and will go back to AMD for the next many years (y) (Y)
 

Adi6293

Posts: 821   +1,106
This is the problem arguing with AMD supporters: they are in denial mode.
I’m writing this from a 5800X, while my son is doing his homeworks on his PC with a 3600X. I’m a better AMD customer than most of them, but I can still see clear. AMD with its price policy and stock shortage is the main reason Comet Lake returned to be a good option after a slow start.
In the right conditions they are not different from Intel, on a marketing point of view.

I agree, some AMD fans are hard to talk to, 10700KF or 10850K in UK are crazy value and the 10400F for £130 just wow
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 2,339   +1,874
This is the problem arguing with AMD supporters: they are in denial mode.
I’m writing this from a 5800X, while my son is doing his homeworks on his PC with a 3600X. I’m a better AMD customer than most of them, but I can still see clear. AMD with its price policy and stock shortage is the main reason Comet Lake returned to be a good option after a slow start.
In the right conditions they are not different from Intel, on a marketing point of view.

lmao I've been buying AMD CPU's since the 90's. You own 2 cpu's I've owned many more than that in the last 20 years nice try though.

You are a better customer than most of them laughable comment since you don't know anyone's buying history.

Market demand, Mining and scalpers and production at TMSC being over booked since AMD is producing CPU's GPU and game consoles on all 7nm. Is why pricing is well above MSRP.
 
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MaxSmarties

Posts: 501   +294
lmao I've been buying AMD CPU's since the 90's. You own 2 cpu's I've owned many more than that in the last 20 years nice try though.

You are a better customer than most of them laughable comment since you don't know anyone's buying history.

Market demand, Mining and scalpers and production at TMSC being over booked since AMD is producing CPU's GPU and game consoles on all 7nm. Is why pricing is well above MSRP.
those two are the CPUs I'm using NOW.
My first AMD was a AM486 from the 90's (basically an Intel clone), and then the marvelous K6-200. After that several Athlon before AMD lost its way with underwhelming products...
So your comment is pointless.
Market demand and mining (!!! mining :joy:) are not the reason why AMD priced their 6C/12T $300 and their 8C/16T $450 (301€ and 452€ in Europe).
There were NO REASONS to go above Zen2 prices. Not even a new node.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,444   +1,615
TechSpot Elite
You know I too stuck with AMD through the FX "saga" I actually had 3 of them between 2 different PC's. FX8320 - FX8350 and FX9590, I've built few PC's for my friends with Phenom II X2 - X4 - FX and now Ryzen CPU's even my wife is running a 3700X and I had the 2700X and then 5800X I basically banned Intel for almost 10 years and nVidia for 7 but eventually you have to stop holding a grudge :p I got the i9 because it was hard not to for £409 I will keep it for a year or two and will go back to AMD for the next many years (y) (Y)
Yeah, your experience sounds similar to mine. I only ever had the FX-8350 but I started my AMD saga with a Phenom II X4 940. Then I bought a 990FX motherboard in anticipation of Bulldozer. Bulldozer was awful so I didn't touch it but I still had the 990FX motherboard and 16GB of DDR3.

I took my Phenom II X4 940, the motherboard and 8GB of DDR2, added an XFX Radeon HD 6450 to it, threw it into a case with a new PSU and 1TB HDD. I gave it to my mother (she still uses it to this day and is still happy with it) and bought a Phenom II X4 965. My craptop at the time had a Llano-based A8-3500M which I consider to be one of the best purchases that I have ever made.

When the FX-8350 came out, the performance difference was enough for me to upgrade and because Tiger Direct screwed up on one of their sales, I got it for $170CAD. After that, I got an R7-1700 and now have n R5-3600X. My current craptop has an R5-3500U because, in the long-term, I prefer having a Quad-Core CPU with SMT rather than a Hexa-Core CPU without SMT. Eight threads vs. six threads, even if they're slower. I don't do anything heavy on my craptop anyway. That's what my desktop is for.

My grudge towards Intel is based on their entire history. I started using PCs in 1984 and built my first in 1988. Intel turned evil when they first released their 32-bit 80386DX-16. To date, they have never won a court case against AMD, having lost every single one. That means that Intel was always the one who was behaving badly. Intel's sandbagging has cost us dearly with regard to technological advancement.

See if you can wrap your mind around this: Intel's slowing of tech advancement, based completely on their greed, may have made it impossible to discover the secret of immortality in your lifetime. We are on the cusp of that discovery and if that's true, the greed of Intel and everyone who enabled their practices, has literally killed you. Another, equally dark scenario is that you could die from an illness just a year or two before a cure is found simply because the amount of computational power that we have is a few generations behind what it could have been. Even if that's not the case for you, it will be the case for someone else and it demonstrates just how critical the speed of our technological advancement is. It demonstrates just how callous Intel had become simply because of their psychopathic corporate greed.

When AMD's market share reaches 50%, or if AMD tries some Intel-like crap against consumers, then I would consider getting another Intel CPU (It would be the first one since my Core2Duo). That's how you make a market healthy, not by jumping ship the second that the bad actor offers you a slightly better deal. The market as it is right now is not healthy. Intel is still a domineering giant and AMD is still an ant in comparison. We need AMD to grow and Intel to shrink until they're at least similar in size. We also need VIA to step-up and re-enter the consumer market and I'm optimistic about that because they're getting a craptonne of money because the Chinese government is a major customer of theirs.

The PC market has become very sick over the years because every time a player is forced out, it has a devastating effect to the industry for several reasons. One is market collusion is much easier with fewer players, whether or not it is a result of illegal co-operation/"price-fixing" (AMD pricing the RX 6000 based on nVidia's pricing of RTX 3000 is a good example of non-cooperational collusion). Another is a reduction of innovation because fewer competitors will innovate less than more.

The market was much healthier with names like Quantum, Kalok, Micropolis, Maxtor, Orchid, CirrusLogic, S3, Oak Technologies, Diamond, Matrox, Zoltrix, Cyrix, VIA, etc.

In fact, the whole industry was just better when they were around.
 
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NeoMorpheus

Posts: 649   +1,197
The PC market has become very sick over the years because every time a player is forced out, it has a devastating effect to the industry for several reasons.

One thing that I keep observing that many others keep ignoring at their convenience, the hard core corporations worshippers that cannot accept that others have legit reasons as to why they dont like a particular brand/corporation.

It doesnt matter that you or I or others explained in as much details as possible as to why we despise a brand, since the worshippers will simply go to war to defend the "honor" of those corporations.

Simply see how we are called AMD fanbois (as I said before, dont care who is on top, as far as is not Intel or Nvidia) just because we have a stronger conviction to use and reject certain products.

That is the one thing that is making me lose my affection for the industry more than the other crap done by the corporations.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,444   +1,615
TechSpot Elite
Ryzen sales were good because they were cheaper than Intel's counterpart.
Now they are even more expensive.
This is the main reason.
People are getting Intel CPUs because you can buy a 10400F for less, much less than a 5600X, and even for less than a 3600X.
When all that matters to someone is money, you are correct. To someone like me, who sees the bigger picture, owning AMD hardware, even if it is slightly more expensive, is better for the entire industry going forward because Intel is so massive that they could just turn around and sandbag the entire industry for years all over again. Some people are smart enough to see the bigger picture and some people aren't. Unfortunately, most people fit into the second category so yeah, AMD's current pricing is definitely detrimental, you'll get no argument from me there.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,444   +1,615
TechSpot Elite
One thing that I keep observing that many others keep ignoring at their convenience, the hard core corporations worshippers that cannot accept that others have legit reasons as to why they dont like a particular brand/corporation.

It doesnt matter that you or I or others explained in as much details as possible as to why we despise a brand, since the worshippers will simply go to war to defend the "honor" of those corporations.

Simply see how we are called AMD fanbois (as I said before, dont care who is on top, as far as is not Intel or Nvidia) just because we have a stronger conviction to use and reject certain products.

That is the one thing that is making me lose my affection for the industry more than the other crap done by the corporations.
As the Protoss Templar used to say, "You think as I do". You and I are not AMD fanboys, we're Intel and nVidia haters. I also don't care who's on top, as long as it's not green or blue. Like you, I only have AMD hardware because that's the only viable alternative. Hell, if VIA were to re-enter the market, I'd have no issue using their hardware.

How anyone could "love" a corporation is completely beyond me.
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 2,339   +1,874
those two are the CPUs I'm using NOW.
My first AMD was a AM486 from the 90's (basically an Intel clone), and then the marvelous K6-200. After that several Athlon before AMD lost its way with underwhelming products...
So your comment is pointless.
Market demand and mining (!!! mining :joy:) are not the reason why AMD priced their 6C/12T $300 and their 8C/16T $450 (301€ and 452€ in Europe).
There were NO REASONS to go above Zen2 prices. Not even a new node.


There is no reason according to you and you don't work for AMD or have access to any of the market data they do. So your comment is equally pointless. You are expecting a public traded company to keep the prices at Zen 2 when you have a superior product out than the competition? And what would their shareholders say when they are leaving money on the table??

This tone of they shouldn't be doing any of this because I disagree is laughable. Market demand will determine prices in any industry you look at not just Tech.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,444   +1,615
TechSpot Elite
There is no reason according to you and you don't work for AMD or have access to any of the market data they do. So your comment is equally pointless. You are expecting a public traded company to keep the prices at Zen 2 when you have a superior product out than the competition? And what would their shareholders say when they are leaving money on the table??

This tone of they shouldn't be doing any of this because I disagree is laughable. Market demand will determine prices in any industry you look at not just Tech.
The problem with AMD doing this is that it's short-sighted. AMD isn't the market leader in either of the markets in which it competes. To the ignorant masses (and boy oh boy, masses is a good word to describe the ignorant), brand is everything.

I had compared it previously to an industry that few, if any, of us are all that familiar with and that's washing machines so that we could understand what it's like to not know about something and consider it too boring to bother with. The Coles' Notes version of my analysis was as follows:

People will pay more for: Whirlpool, Maytag
People won't pay more for: Amana, Inglis, Kenmore

Now, despite the different names, these brands are ALL Whirlpool brands. However, public perception means that only Whirlpool and Maytag are considered "premium" brands. This is despite the fact that Amana, Inglis and Kenmore often being nothing more than re-branded Whirlpools made in the same factories with the same parts. Often, the Whirlpool and/or Maytag models will have features that the others don't (like warm or hot water rinse) but not always. What is always true is that you will pay AT LEAST $100 more just for the model to say Whirlpool or Maytag even if the two washers are otherwise identical.

Is this completely absurd? Of course it is, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true. In this case, AMD would be considered the "Amana/Inglis/Kenmore" to Intel's "Whirlpool/Maytag" and being more expensive when you're not the better known "premium" brand can be catastrophic.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,132   +723
Oh and remember the class action against AMD for marketing their FX cores for having twice as many cores as they actually have? Yeah that’s far more recent than Intel’s lawsuits, most of which were so long ago that George Bush was still a new president.

That lawsuit didn't got very well since FX-8350 for example have 8 cores. There's absolutely no question about it. Since first Intel x86 CPU (8086), definition of CPU has been based on ability to executer integer calculations. FX-8350 have separate 8 cores capable for integer calculations so that is 8-core CPU without any questions. If FX-8350 is 4-core CPU, then almost every Intel CPU before 486 were 0-core CPU's...

Whole lawsuit was just attempt from stupid people to make some money, nothing else.
 
That hardware addiction ...must be fed. ... I guess that this just shows that people will do anything for their hardware fix. :laughing:
Yep, when it came time to buy a new machine; I looked in my pocketbook; researched performance and bought the biggest bang for my buck at that time. I'm not married to anyone; I'm married to the specs and my pocketbook. :laughing:
 

Adi6293

Posts: 821   +1,106
Yeah, your experience sounds similar to mine. I only ever had the FX-8350 but I started my AMD saga with a Phenom II X4 940. Then I bought a 990FX motherboard in anticipation of Bulldozer. Bulldozer was awful so I didn't touch it but I still had the 990FX motherboard and 16GB of DDR3.

I took my Phenom II X4 940, the motherboard and 8GB of DDR2, added an XFX Radeon HD 6450 to it, threw it into a case with a new PSU and 1TB HDD. I gave it to my mother (she still uses it to this day and is still happy with it) and bought a Phenom II X4 965. My craptop at the time had a Llano-based A8-3500M which I consider to be one of the best purchases that I have ever made.

When the FX-8350 came out, the performance difference was enough for me to upgrade and because Tiger Direct screwed up on one of their sales, I got it for $170CAD. After that, I got an R7-1700 and now have n R5-3600X. My current craptop has an R5-3500U because, in the long-term, I prefer having a Quad-Core CPU with SMT rather than a Hexa-Core CPU without SMT. Eight threads vs. six threads, even if they're slower. I don't do anything heavy on my craptop anyway. That's what my desktop is for.

My grudge towards Intel is based on their entire history. I started using PCs in 1984 and built my first in 1988. Intel turned evil when they first released their 32-bit 80386DX-16. To date, they have never won a court case against AMD, having lost every single one. That means that Intel was always the one who was behaving badly. Intel's sandbagging has cost us dearly with regard to technological advancement.

See if you can wrap your mind around this: Intel's slowing of tech advancement, based completely on their greed, may have made it impossible to discover the secret of immortality in your lifetime. We are on the cusp of that discovery and if that's true, the greed of Intel and everyone who enabled their practices, has literally killed you. Another, equally dark scenario is that you could die from an illness just a year or two before a cure is found simply because the amount of computational power that we have is a few generations behind what it could have been. Even if that's not the case for you, it will be the case for someone else and it demonstrates just how critical the speed of our technological advancement is. It demonstrates just how callous Intel had become simply because of their psychopathic corporate greed.

When AMD's market share reaches 50%, or if AMD tries some Intel-like crap against consumers, then I would consider getting another Intel CPU (It would be the first one since my Core2Duo). That's how you make a market healthy, not by jumping ship the second that the bad actor offers you a slightly better deal. The market as it is right now is not healthy. Intel is still a domineering giant and AMD is still an ant in comparison. We need AMD to grow and Intel to shrink until they're at least similar in size. We also need VIA to step-up and re-enter the consumer market and I'm optimistic about that because they're getting a craptonne of money because the Chinese government is a major customer of theirs.

The PC market has become very sick over the years because every time a player is forced out, it has a devastating effect to the industry for several reasons. One is market collusion is much easier with fewer players, whether or not it is a result of illegal co-operation or "price-fixing" (AMD pricing the RX 6000 based on nVidia's pricing of RTX 3000 is a good example of co-operational collusion). Another is a reduction of innovation because fewer competitors will innovate less than more.

The market was much healthier with names like Quantum, Kalok, Micropolis, Maxtor, Orchid, CirrusLogic, S3, Oak Technologies, Diamond, Matrox, Zoltrix, Cyrix, VIA, etc.

The industry was better when they were around.

I absolutely agree with you on everything you said, I'm only 30 so must be good few years younger than you but that does not mean I don't know about Intel and what they were upto, also I didn't just jumped ship because I got a slightly better deal form the bad guy, I already gave my money to AMD when I purchased the 2700X, 3700X and 5800X there was nothing else to buy :confused: the 5900X that I really wanted was out of stock everywhere and so was the 6800XT poof and gone, I still haven't seen a single 6800XT in stock in UK. I'm happy that AMD is killing it with the consoles but they really neglected the PC space in the last 3 months, hopefully this pandemic is over soon and we can go back to normality stock and price wise :)
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 2,339   +1,874
I absolutely agree with you on everything you said, I'm only 30 so must be good few years younger than you but that does not mean I don't know about Intel and what they were upto, also I didn't just jumped ship because I got a slightly better deal form the bad guy, I already gave my money to AMD when I purchased the 2700X, 3700X and 5800X there was nothing else to buy :confused: the 5900X that I really wanted was out of stock everywhere and so was the 6800XT poof and gone, I still haven't seen a single 6800XT in stock in UK. I'm happy that AMD is killing it with the consoles but they really neglected the PC space in the last 3 months, hopefully this pandemic is over soon and we can go back to normality stock and price wise :)

But how would they be neglecting the PC space if they are selling everything they make?

Prioritizing

OEM, Enterprise and Consoles over consumer is not really neglect it would be smart business sense as the margins are better in those other area's.
 

Adi6293

Posts: 821   +1,106
But how would they be neglecting the PC space if they are selling everything they make?

Prioritizing

OEM, Enterprise and Consoles over consumer is not really neglect it would be smart business sense as the margins are better in those other area's.

I really doubt they make the same margins they make on Ryzen CPU's on those APU's they sell to Microsoft and Sony. They should prepare themselves better with RX6000 realise :p
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 2,339   +1,874
I really doubt they make the same margins they make on Ryzen CPU's on those APU's they sell to Microsoft and Sony. They should prepare themselves better with RX6000 realise :p

Out of the 3 examples I provided its only the consoles that would be a smaller margin. And that relationship with Microsoft and Sony obviously takes priority over the consumer market for AMD.

Even if we had enough supply you would still be dealing with miners and scalpers so I don't see it changing much.

I really wish they would make dedicated hardware for that group and cripple mining in the regular GPU's via drivers.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,444   +1,615
TechSpot Elite
I absolutely agree with you on everything you said, I'm only 30 so must be good few years younger than you but that does not mean I don't know about Intel and what they were upto, also I didn't just jumped ship because I got a slightly better deal form the bad guy, I already gave my money to AMD when I purchased the 2700X, 3700X and 5800X there was nothing else to buy :confused: the 5900X that I really wanted was out of stock everywhere and so was the 6800XT poof and gone, I still haven't seen a single 6800XT in stock in UK. I'm happy that AMD is killing it with the consoles but they really neglected the PC space in the last 3 months, hopefully this pandemic is over soon and we can go back to normality stock and price wise :)
Don't sell yourself short by saying "I'm only 30" because AFAIC, that means you have a clue what you're talking about. We Gen-X'ers are the tech lords of the world because we'll always be the oldest generation that wasn't resistant to tech like our predecessors, the baby-boomers are. As the first generation to universally embrace computer technology, we've seen things that the Gen-Y and Gen-Z/Millenials haven't, things that most of the baby-boomers either lamented or ignored. We're also the first generation to whom having a post-secondary education is actually vital to success.

I would postulate that this was just the result of a perfect storm (for AMD anyway). That perfect storm was the combination of the almost simultaneous releases of Zen 3, the PS5, the Xbox Series S and X, the Radeon RX 6000-series topped off by the massively increased demand caused by the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic and the bitcoin miners coming out of the woodwork after four years. The odds against all of these conditions happening again at once are astronomically small. As for nVidia, I don't know what's causing the shortages because they're not the ones who have the TSMC 7nm process node tapped out. I'd have to guess that maybe Samsung's silicon is pretty bad and has horrible yields.

We Gen-X'ers tend to look at the bigger picture and what we've already seen makes us know the kinds of situations that certain events will trigger. Are there fools among us? Absolutely, but we seem to have far fewer than the generations that came after us and (especially) the one that came before.
 
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