Intel's comeback: Raptor Lake sales look stronger than AMD's Zen 4

deksman2

Posts: 27   +56
What can we expect from Tim? He simply hates AMD.

Except for one FSR video, every single time he posts something, it with a negative bias towards AMD.

About pricing, again, they released their CPUs at the same prices or cheaper than the previous:
  • Ryzen 9 7950X: $700 Ryzen 9 5950X: $800
  • Ryzen 9 7900X: $550 Ryzen 9 5900X: $550
  • Ryzen 7 7700X: $400 Ryzen 7 5800X: $450
  • Ryzen 5 7600X: $300 Ryzen 5 5600X: $300


    I dont know who to blame for the motherboards prices, but if AMD has something to do there, then great, lets blame them, if not, that BS needs to stop.

The motherboard prices are set by motherboard manufacturers, not AMD.
AMD only cotributes AM5 chipset, and some licensing fees, but both are rather minor and account for a very small percentage of the overall motherboard price.

Also, if we check motherboard manufacturers making Intel Z970, we can see tha those prices are comparable to AM5 mobos.

AMD does have Intel beat here in the sense that AM5 is FAR more longer lasting though, so it has better options for upgrade paths down the road.

Intel was able to undercut AMD mainly in the CPU pricing by charging less for mid-range Raptor Lake that offers a rather high multi-core performance (while also consuming more power) and pretty comparable single threaded performance.

My thinking here is that while AMD made a good call by selling Zen 4 for less or same as Zen 3, problem is that Intel has them beat in the pricing department in the mid-range and offers more cores (which is useful for content creators like me on a budget).

Here, I think AMD would have done better by having say 7700x as the 'mid range' chip (priced the same as 7600x), then going to 7900x, 7950x and another chip that has 24 cores/48 threads.

I'm going to wait until sometime next year likely before I consider buying a new system though. And I'd prefer Zen 4 with v-cache if possible.
 

Darth Shiv

Posts: 2,330   +855
"Intel's comeback: Raptor Lake sales look stronger than AMD's Zen 4"
OOOO, Intel's BIG comeback because their sales look stronger than:
AMD Ryzen 7000 is off to a slow start, Zen 4 sales are not good <-THIS?
Intel's "comeback" is to have stronger sales than something that is known to have weak sales?

That's like saying that the 4-4 Patriots had a "comeback" in week 6 because they beat the 1-6 Lions! :laughing:

Context, as always, is king. If your product sells better than a product that's a notoriously bad seller at the time, calling at a "comeback" is nothing more than a misleading narrative because the market is weak overall from the longevity and continued relevance of AM4.
Not really. It proves that the market was ready to buy a decent product. The "comeback" was that prev gen AMD did fairly well. You forgot about that context.
 

error1984

Posts: 30   +44
The only problem is that Intel's CEO said a few years back that they were not going to compete in the CPU market. When your CEO doesn't even support the product, I would not expect that the company would do very well going forward.
That CEO is long gone...new one - Gelsinger said few months ago that Intel is back with the performance crown. As we can see 13th gen is faster than AMDs 7000 overall. The real master CPU race will start from the next year when new much smaller node will be introduced by Intel.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 1,109   +940
I'm planing on doing up to four AM5 builds this year. I will opt for the socket longevity because I know an Intel build is a one and done.

The interesting thing I have noted is that X670 MBs are the only ones that are supposed to have PCI-e 5.0 on them - at least according to my info, but I have found a few B650 MBs (I think it was MSI) that have PCI-e 5.0 on them and they are very reasonably priced, IMO.

It seems that some people just don't care how much they throw away on one and done intel builds. I do. Those people probably don't care, either.

X670E boards are different than X670(non-E) boards, the "E" boards have PCIe 5.0... and the lower priced X650E boards will too, but they are not out yet.


I upgraded my platform completely from 10900k z490 unify 32bg ddr4 gskill rgb 3200 to 13700k z690 strix-e 32gb ddr5 gskill rgb 6000 for...

$300 strix mobo
$200 ddr5 rgb ram
$150 13790k ($200 gift card free with cell phone + 10% off)

So around $650 in upgrade costs meanwhile I sold my old setup a few months back for...

(pulled direct from invoice from when I sold it)

CPU: Intel Core i9 10900K unlocked 10-Core Processor ($389.98)

Motherboard: MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY ATX Motherboard ($289.99)

Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB DDR4 3200MHZ (4 x 8 GB) RAM ($184.99)

So I MADE $865 selling my platform a few months early used a much weaker secondary in between and now after the upgrade I've modernized my platform completely whole KEEPING about $215 in my pocket.


That doesn't even include selling my 3080ti for $1650 back in May and upgrading to a 4090 FE for $1545 (again used 10% off BB credit card offer)

I've got almost the best platform you could ask for for gaming and haven't spent a penny in getting it... In fact I've made some money through the process of selling early and planning ahead.


Did you upgrade your case ( to match your 3.2 USB-C ports)... or reusing older/slower SSD on a new mobo? Why didn't you just sell your whole computer?

So essentially, you are saying you did all that (upgrading and selling and piecemealing a system together), just to get a faster iNTEl cpu..? Knowing all the while your investment was moot, because you will have the same headache again when 14th gen comes out.

13900k is faster, but not faster than the $299 Zen5 R5 8600x.... that comes out in 13 months.
 

bandit8623

Posts: 459   +251
Its ok, my point still stands, its 99% of the time the same negative tone towards AMD from him.

I honestly dont even bother in watching his videos, which is a shame, because these days, almost all YouTube reviewers are on the same hate boat just because.
If the product is bad, great, do your worse, same for when the company producing those goods are bad, but not these days...

Everything is always with a negative title, always ignoring the good and focusing even on incorrect data if needed to trash them.

Just look at this result from a simple search I did the other day:
nXFpjhZ.jpg


They simply have no hope.
buhahah you realize those are custom tailored to your viewing habits...
 

Watzupken

Posts: 761   +643
Not really a surprise Rocket Lake is a drop in replacement for a socket already in use. AM5 is new and requires full new build. So I would expect higher numbers for intel.
I think you mean Raptor Lake. And I agree. It's normal that when it's a drop in upgrade with decent performance improvement, chip sales will usually be good because the total cost of upgrade is only the chip itself. AM5 is not selling well because one will need to get new and expensive motherboard and DDR5 memory, on top of the cost of the CPU. So while Intel is selling more CPUs, they are not necessarily making more money because they can't increase the price of the CPU as they announced few months back, plus, chipset sale is going to be stagnant.
 

Watzupken

Posts: 761   +643
That CEO is long gone...new one - Gelsinger said few months ago that Intel is back with the performance crown. As we can see 13th gen is faster than AMDs 7000 overall. The real master CPU race will start from the next year when new much smaller node will be introduced by Intel.
Performance crown, yes, but with caveats. They basically threw power limits out the window to get there. I think Pat did what he could, but Intel is not doing well because they lost the advantage in terms of fab advancement. In fact, it's possible that their other upcoming products are suffering from delays because the yield from their 10nm isn't good. Intel's problem is part competition, and part their own product delays. Sapphire Rapids and ARC are clear examples of potential failures due to them falling significantly behind their planned schedules. Even if competition remains stagnant, they are failing to capitalise on the situation to boost sales. I am not that hopeful for Intel 7nm because it is increasingly difficult to shrink the nodes down at this stage, so it is likely Intel will need to cut some corners to get 7nm out on time. This is just my speculation but it won't be long before we see the actual performance.
 

error1984

Posts: 30   +44
Performance crown, yes, but with caveats. They basically threw power limits out the window to get there. I think Pat did what he could, but Intel is not doing well because they lost the advantage in terms of fab advancement. In fact, it's possible that their other upcoming products are suffering from delays because the yield from their 10nm isn't good. Intel's problem is part competition, and part their own product delays. Sapphire Rapids and ARC are clear examples of potential failures due to them falling significantly behind their planned schedules. Even if competition remains stagnant, they are failing to capitalise on the situation to boost sales. I am not that hopeful for Intel 7nm because it is increasingly difficult to shrink the nodes down at this stage, so it is likely Intel will need to cut some corners to get 7nm out on time. This is just my speculation but it won't be long before we see the actual performance.
So AMD did with 7000....temps up to 100C. Zen 4 is a the limit. Yep, the ARC is a failure and is terribly overpriced...but still - I count on Intel in CPU segment because if we like it or not this is still the biggest CPU design corp.
 

MarcusNumb

Posts: 108   +179
Funny to see how fanboys from both sides arguing whenever a topic like this appears.

Chill guys, AMD had their time with Zen3, now Intel is swinging back. They will go back and forth like this forever and we all are benefited as customers.

Imo, AMD is doing just fine. If they can clear off the zen3 stocks till their mid range Zen4 come out, it will be a big success for them. Remember that they are dealing with over supply, not over demand like last year.
 

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 3,956   +6,998
Funny to see how fanboys from both sides arguing whenever a topic like this appears.

Chill guys, AMD had their time with Zen3, now Intel is swinging back. They will go back and forth like this forever and we all are benefited as customers.

Imo, AMD is doing just fine. If they can clear off the zen3 stocks till their mid range Zen4 come out, it will be a big success for them. Remember that they are dealing with over supply, not over demand like last year.
They need something cheaper on the low end $300 was too much for zen 3 and its too much for zen 4.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 421   +208
X670E boards are different than X670(non-E) boards, the "E" boards have PCIe 5.0... and the lower priced X650E boards will too, but they are not out yet.





Did you upgrade your case ( to match your 3.2 USB-C ports)... or reusing older/slower SSD on a new mobo? Why didn't you just sell your whole computer?

So essentially, you are saying you did all that (upgrading and selling and piecemealing a system together), just to get a faster iNTEl cpu..? Knowing all the while your investment was moot, because you will have the same headache again when 14th gen comes out.

13900k is faster, but not faster than the $299 Zen5 R5 8600x.... that comes out in 13 months.
I sold most parts of my system but kept my case and storage... Tower 900 will likley be my case for the foreseeable future as it handles ANYTHING watercooling related I can throw at it with ease... And storage wise a 2tb 980 pro nvme + 12tb of ssd storage and 26tb of hdd

I don't worry nor plan builds around things like "what will be available in 18-24 months" I buy what's best now and or best BEFORE my current parts lose too much of their value.

By selling "early" (long before most would consider it necessary) and buying a little after I've been able to recoup 85-90% of what I spent on previous parts to put towards newer faster stuff.

Been doing it this way for a decade and while in the first 8 years or so my average annual costs were about $200-250 to keep my system "current" in the last 2 or 3 I've been able to do it and literally MAKE MONEY while getting significantly faster hardware.

In fact the last time I spent ANYTHING on an upgrade would have been 2017 when I went 7700k / sli 1080ti's (2x) ever since then having had 2080ti - 3080 - 3080ti - 4090 as well as 10900k - 13700k + matching zx90 mobo and now a ddr5 6000 upgrade (also a atx 3.0 psu upgrade)

I have all modern technology including pcie 5.0 & NVME 5.0 (which not even all current boards actually support both) though I'm QUITE aware I MIGHT never even use them BEFORE I upgrade again... Point being AGAIN I don't know When I'll upgrade again but buying and selling before parts lose too much value having these things helps keep selling price better later especially if a technology DOES become of real value to some during that time.

So again not sure what you mean by "investment is moot" as my only investments have paid off HUGE and I'm now gaming with more than 4x the performance and haven't spent a dime in getting there.

I'm not like so many of you who think "investing" means getting a system with multiple cpu upgrades generations included or as something I covet... I buy WHATEVER is best when I need to buy and when I need to buy is when I sell my old stuff before its become basically throwaway parts worth a fraction of what I paid for them.

I've done the comparisons with friends who think and build more like that and watched as they ride the same mobo / cpu combo til its ACTUALLY needed to be replaced and seen them have to basically give it away or just throw it in the pile of tech garbage they keep in their closet. Meanwhile each time they do "upgrade" it's basically them building new from scratch at full price.

I have a friend who built around the time I did in 2017 going ryzen 1800x and 1080 sli (2x) he also recently upgraded and he went similar again to me but amd (for the same reason he did last time "the upgrade path") and yet his old parts were worth so little he didn't even bother selling and just bought his 7700x and 4090 at full price.

We both ended up with similar systems both in 2017 and 2022 yet he's out several thousand more dollars than myself not to mention he spent a vast majority of the past 5 years seeing his performance plummet in comparison to what I was experiencing with my constantly upgraded setup.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 421   +208
Did you noted the search box?

Also, glad you assumed that, because that was a fresh install of NewPipe, without a profile attached, so nope, nothing “tailored”.

So…try again?
All you proved with your search is the same facts we saw a few years ago when if you did the same search you would have seen nothing but praise and singing of their glory for changing up the game when it comes to cpu's....

They were all jumping on the bandwagon of what the general consensus was to get views and now they are just continuing to do so... It's just the narrative isn't so nice to amd anymore as they aren't doing the same game changing moves they did in the past.

The consensus is different is the only change here these "influencers" following trends is exactly the same.

Want to blame someone? Blame amd....
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 421   +208
Funny to see how fanboys from both sides arguing whenever a topic like this appears.

Chill guys, AMD had their time with Zen3, now Intel is swinging back. They will go back and forth like this forever and we all are benefited as customers.

Imo, AMD is doing just fine. If they can clear off the zen3 stocks till their mid range Zen4 come out, it will be a big success for them. Remember that they are dealing with over supply, not over demand like last year.
It really does just come down to this... People need to stop losing their minds that amd didn't stay "the golden boy" forever in perpetuity... That's basically impossible they NEED to go back and forth as to who "leads" so we can always count on each side actually TRYING!

Watching certain fanboys meltdown when their favorite "influencer" suddenly says something negative about their favorite corpo after years of singing their praise is quite funny though I can't deny that watching them do a complete 180° on their support for them and acting like they suddenly are the devil is just hilarious!

So many want to even pretend like "they've always had it out for...."

Haha no... They just finally have to speak the undeniable truth that goes against your narrative and you hate it.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,355   +4,362
Not really. It proves that the market was ready to buy a decent product. The "comeback" was that prev gen AMD did fairly well. You forgot about that context.
The AM5 platform is flawed, badly. AMD's comeback was in 2017 with Zen, not Zen3. A comeback means that you're against the ropes, something that Intel never has been but AMD definitely was. That's the context to which I refer. What's going on right now isn't so much that Intel's great as it is that AMD has made an error (overly-ambitious pricing on CPUs and motherboards).
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,410   +7,845
That CEO is long gone...new one - Gelsinger said few months ago that Intel is back with the performance crown. As we can see 13th gen is faster than AMDs 7000 overall. The real master CPU race will start from the next year when new much smaller node will be introduced by Intel.
Maybe he's long gone, but its not easy for a company to jettison the effect of a CEO. Look how long it took AMD to recover from Rory Reed.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,502   +3,248
AMD has made an error (overly-ambitious pricing on CPUs and motherboards).
That is what really has me beyond confused.

They actually reduced the price on some of the new Zen 4 cpus, have higher performance and that is actually an error?

And about the motherboards, again, beyond confused, since they dont dictate the prices, so again, why is this an error on their part?

The only thing that I can say is, Intel reduced their prices, which show us how much more they were fleecing us, plus, they are using an older tech, so they can afford these price "cuts", but then if you look at the long term, Zen 4 is new tech, Intel is old with a very limited shelf life, so again, what is AMD "error"?
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,502   +3,248
All you proved with your search is the same facts we saw a few years ago when if you did the same search you would have seen nothing but praise and singing of their glory for changing up the game when it comes to cpu's....

They were all jumping on the bandwagon of what the general consensus was to get views and now they are just continuing to do so... It's just the narrative isn't so nice to amd anymore as they aren't doing the same game changing moves they did in the past.

The consensus is different is the only change here these "influencers" following trends is exactly the same.

Want to blame someone? Blame amd....
I guess that I might not be explaining myself clearly, but I simply pointed out how is now this overall "campaign" if you want to call it against them, when all I see AMD doing is trying to sell their wares at a more reasonable price, plus keep releasing and supporting the open source community, work well with partners and in my eyes, are way more pro-consumer than intel and nvidia combined, yet as I pointed and you saw, like this really stupid article, almost every day is a negative article or video against AMD.

Did you see that video where Steven asked Tim is a 6900xt was a good buy at 700 bucks and he still said no, but then has no issues in people paying 2K for a 3090 Ti?

Anyways, I am actually tired of repeating the same thing, just for people to continue ignoring it and repeating the same bs.
 

sreams

Posts: 371   +532
That CEO is long gone...new one - Gelsinger said few months ago that Intel is back with the performance crown. As we can see 13th gen is faster than AMDs 7000 overall. The real master CPU race will start from the next year when new much smaller node will be introduced by Intel.

That likely will not be the case once the 3D cache Ryzens are released in a few months.
 

sreams

Posts: 371   +532
The AM5 platform is flawed, badly. AMD's comeback was in 2017 with Zen, not Zen3. A comeback means that you're against the ropes, something that Intel never has been but AMD definitely was. That's the context to which I refer. What's going on right now isn't so much that Intel's great as it is that AMD has made an error (overly-ambitious pricing on CPUs and motherboards).
Pricing is easily changed.

Either way... pricing includes all elements of a system. That includes the cost of the cooler, the power supply, and the electricity used over the life of the system... all things that impact Intel negatively at the moment.
 

Gimp65

Posts: 81   +163
So AM4 is still outselling all of the other platforms put together.

Zen 4 and 13th gen are fairly even, +/- can be said for both CPU's depending on range and features.

13th gen slides right in on excisting platform, Zen 4 is new so it does not, obviously 13th gen sells more than Zen 4 for a start.

Tbh most of this is to be expected, except that AM4 is selling much stronger than I thought.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,355   +4,362
That is what really has me beyond confused.

They actually reduced the price on some of the new Zen 4 cpus, have higher performance and that is actually an error?

And about the motherboards, again, beyond confused, since they dont dictate the prices, so again, why is this an error on their part?

The only thing that I can say is, Intel reduced their prices, which show us how much more they were fleecing us, plus, they are using an older tech, so they can afford these price "cuts", but then if you look at the long term, Zen 4 is new tech, Intel is old with a very limited shelf life, so again, what is AMD "error"?
It's simple. AMD doesn't need to charge what they're charging but they still are. They're literally pulling an Intel and that's a serious error because the thing that has kept AMD afloat for so long was animosity towards Intel's practices.

If AMD starts acting anti-consumer like Intel did, people like me who swore off of Intel will just not care anymore and start to buy Intel again if it's the better deal. Intel is still many times the size of AMD and it's not out of the realm of possibility that AMD could find themselves in the same position that they were with FX.

If AMD destroys the good will that they've accumulated over the years, nobody will care about "Sticking it to Intel" or "Sticking it to nVidia" and AMD could become insolvent. AMD has definitely come back from the brink but they're still tiny compared to Intel and/or nVidia. It's an error for them to become as money-grubbing as Intel because it will mean that they've forgotten the biggest reason why they still exist.