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Judge rules defendant may be forced to decrypt her laptop

By Rick · 19 replies
Jan 25, 2012
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  1. Judge Robert Blackburn made a ruling (PDF) this week which may change the way encryption is handled in future court cases. Although the defendant invoked 5th amendment rights as many others…

    Read the whole story
  2. tonylukac

    tonylukac TS Evangelist Posts: 1,376   +72

    Sorry, I lost my password
  3. gwailo247

    gwailo247 TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,007   +18

    Contempt of court is a pretty minor charge compared to what a person could be facing. I'd rather deal with that.
  4. the defendant is wrong.

    it is not a right against self-incrimination.

    imagine, one is accused of kidnapping someone and putting the victim in the trunk of a car.
    can the kidnapper claim that he cannot open the trunk because he may incriminate himself?

    the state has the right to "inspect" everything within reason.
  5. In a case like this I think that denial to comply with such a simple request is equal to admission of guilt and should be treated as such. On a side note, Symantec can make good software? Who knew.
  6. killeriii

    killeriii TS Enthusiast Posts: 213   +14

    It's not either/or.
    You get held in contempt until you comply with the courts orders, then you continue with your trial.
    That can mean jail time, or a continuing fine. When you get tired of sitting in jail (or run out of money from the fines), and give in to the court. You still get prosecuted for the original crime you were being charged for.
  7. Muggs

    Muggs TS Rookie Posts: 56

    Well if we look at a laptop as a modern day filing cabinet then her keeping wanting to keep it locked probably should not be allowed. If you have a warrant and that warrant allows you access to a premises you are required to unlock and allow access to everything on those premises. The laptop is no different than a safe or as I said before a filing cabinet so I don't know why it would have different rights just because it is digital information.
  8. gwailo247

    gwailo247 TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,007   +18

    If the info on the laptop is 100% guaranteed to convict you, you're better off with the contempt of court charge. anything < 100% is better in this case, never know what might happen in the interim, especially with a constitutionally questionable ruling.
  9. If they already have evidence to hold her then it shouldnt be a problem. If theres no evidence or other reason then it comes down to if a warrant is justifiable. if theres no warrant theres no problem for this person because it is her property
  10. A warrant allows the government to examine physical premises. The warrant cannot force an individual to participate in the process.
  11. lchu12

    lchu12 TS Booster Posts: 188   +11

    Don't forget to say "your honor." at the end of that sentence. lolz
  12. Camikazi

    Camikazi TS Evangelist Posts: 978   +324

    That is different, a trunk has a physical key, the cops can get a warrant and force the person to give them the key and they can open the trunk. That was already established, if it's a physical key lock the law can get the key from you, if it's a combination type lock they cannot force you to open it for them. A password is not in anyway like a physical key, it is like a combination lock which means the law cannot force you to open it, if they want to check the contents they must find a way to open it themselves.
  13. Ahem..."I cannot recall."
  14. The right to remain silence is the right to remain information known only to yourself, even if it could incriminate you. With today's techonology, computing devices have become an extension of the users themselves, pretty much their "second brain". I personally believe any object, file cabinet or individuals brain (see fMRI lie detectors) that is YOUR INFORMATION, information specifically, then it is privy only to you and the Governement should not be allowed to force you to introduce it to have you incriminate yourself. The prospect of forcing defendants to incriminate themselves undermines the entire reason our Judicial System was created; to allow defendants to defend themselves, even if it means they withhold THEIR evidence that may prove their guilt. It's should not be a court where the defendant is forced to build a case against themselves because the prosecution can't do so by their own means while not infringing on the defendants rights.
  15. JudaZ

    JudaZ TS Enthusiast Posts: 284

    Actually not being a lawyer I'm guessing that you actually could refuse to open the trunk in such a case.

    A court order gives the police the right to open the trunk, but thay cant force you to do so personally (but I could be wrong) because it could incriminate yourself.

    Never ever seen anyone being forced to give access to their home to be searched, but it does not matter because if the court have given out the right to authorities to do so, they will break down the door to execute the search warrant.

    when in comes to encrypted harddrives, same logic should apply (if it actually does so in other cases and I am amusing correct :) )

    Can't force you to decrypt the drive, but hold you in contempt of court if you refuse. Or the police can try and gain access to it ..if they have the skills
  16. NTAPRO

    NTAPRO TS Evangelist Posts: 809   +104

    :eek: Gotta learn about that encryption stuff
  17. If an encrypted drive is an extension and repository of one's private thoughts, like a diary, then its contents could very easily be misinterpreted and turned against oneself, if revealed. Therefore, the state should accept its hard luck and look elsewhere for evidence. After all, it's a mortgage scam they are investigating, not a dead body locked in an encrypted car trunk.
  18. Her name sounds Romanian, so I suspect she is Romanian, like me. I'm a bit surprised to find out about this, usually we leave the crimes and infractions to our politicians and corrupt government officials.
    Now about this ruling, I doubt it will be held after an appeal as it is highly irregular and unconstitutional. The police and authorities have every right to investigate, seize and search for evidence. However they have absolutely no right in making you in way to provide that evidence - it would be torture plain and simple.
    Holding an accused in contempt because of refusal to offer access to encrypted data is reasons and basis for firing that judge. The obligation of the accused is to only submit the laptop in question to the police, FBI or whatever else agency deems it interesting to have a crack at it.
    Furthermore the innocent till proven guilty principle is still in effect, forcing the accused to offer access to her laptop constitutes a premise to raise the objection that she has already been found guilty.
  19. I think a couple of points that must be made.

    First is that we have rights and just because a Judge tries to abuse those rights, does not change them, and the woman should stand up for her rights, not give the password, and then sue the court for infringing her constitutional rights. Some of the problems lately have been that people are not differentiating American citizens from terrorist and other foreign nationals, the constitution sets rights for Americans.

    Second to get a warrant you need to have some evidence to a crime, a judge does not have to grant a warrant and they often don't when police, FBI, etc. don't have enough reason to support its issue.

    We in American live by laws that are made to protect us from illegal search and seizure, and our laws were written to protect us, sometimes a criminal will go free but it has to be that way to protect the innocent.

    We have an obligation to do what we can to protect those rights and this woman should do everything she can to make sure her rights are not infringed, and I'm sure she can get help from a lot of organizations to make sure her rights are upheld.
  20. she gave up the goods and the fbi couldnt handle it, now it is only right for the courts to drop it about time someone made something that is truely safe!! good on her plus 100million love and **** off to the egotistical greedy sons of bitches

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