Linus Torvalds abandons Intel for AMD after 15 years

Red999

Posts: 100   +36
I watched his latest video where he builds a Threadripper 3960x video workstation.
It was 3 hours long, but I skipped to the most important parts - specifically when he added the SSD and the 2080Ti.

Considering how much money he makes on Youtube, I'm really shocked he didn't go with higher specs: Faster CPU, more RAM, etc.

Someone with that much money could get a Mac Pro with over 1TB of RAM - or a top end Windows video editor but he made choices to spend way less - thus necessitating another build soon thereafter.

Perhaps that's how he chooses to make his Youtube money by purposefully spending less in order to have quickly obsolescing workstations? This way he can just keep making more videos and spending more for newer hardware?

I watch his videos but I find them to be mostly clickbaity and in many cases uninteresting.

It's no wonder when his Youtubber friends, who knows he builds servers, completely didn't ask him when they wanted to build one. I did watch that video.

Definitely not choices I'd make when I build my computer, computers for friends or when I order hardware for my business.
Many of the videos are crappy too with cluttered things, especially cabling.
They release videos at least once a day which seems to quickly clear advertising contracts.
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,381   +1,354
TechSpot Elite
The only reason Apple still exists..suckers. I have bridges to sell.
Most PC people don't understand why Apple exists, they think that somehow hardware specs makes a computer. Your PC box is just that: a box. Big deal. It's what you do with it.

Apple exists because of software, the OS in particular and the OS/software experience in general. That's what people are buying, and is the same reason why people buy iPhones. In the iPhone's case, the hardware also happens to be better most of the time but that's just the sideshow. The OS and UI is the draw.

It's the same reason Linux exists, some people just don't want to deal with Windows. At the performance you get even with mid-level hardware, modest paper or benchmark hardware advantages simply don't matter.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,243   +3,335
I watched his latest video where he builds a Threadripper 3960x video workstation.
It was 3 hours long, but I skipped to the most important parts - specifically when he added the SSD and the 2080Ti.
Many people that post to TS would have been able to accomplish that without viewing a video.
Considering how much money he makes on Youtube, I'm really shocked he didn't go with higher specs: Faster CPU, more RAM, etc.

Someone with that much money could get a Mac Pro with over 1TB of RAM - or a top end Windows video editor but he made choices to spend way less - thus necessitating another build soon thereafter.
And he would have demonstrated just how to spend a bucket load of money on something he would never need and never use.

Because it costs the most does not mean that it is the best; however, many with money to burn seem to think that if it costs the most it is the best - even though it is rather obvious from other responses here that the mcMac Pro would be a vanity buy.

I am sure there are many companies out there that like those who think that a product costing the most is the best. Have you heard the saying "There's a sucker born every minute"?
 

candle_86

Posts: 305   +220
Most PC people don't understand why Apple exists, they think that somehow hardware specs makes a computer. Your PC box is just that: a box. Big deal. It's what you do with it.

Apple exists because of software, the OS in particular and the OS/software experience in general. That's what people are buying, and is the same reason why people buy iPhones. In the iPhone's case, the hardware also happens to be better most of the time but that's just the sideshow. The OS and UI is the draw.

It's the same reason Linux exists, some people just don't want to deal with Windows. At the performance you get even with mid-level hardware, modest paper or benchmark hardware advantages simply don't matter.
Except osx lacks an intuitive gui, I can orient myself faster in a random Linux build than I can a Mac, and simple things like mapping network drives are needlessly convoluted on osx so are network printers. I absolutely hate supporting osx users, sure it looks nice, but that beauty is only skin deep.
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,381   +1,354
TechSpot Elite
Except osx lacks an intuitive gui, I can orient myself faster in a random Linux build than I can a Mac, and simple things like mapping network drives are needlessly convoluted on osx so are network printers. I absolutely hate supporting osx users, sure it looks nice, but that beauty is only skin deep.
That's just familiarity most of the time. I can do the same much faster on a Mac than on Linux and used to faster on a Mac than a PC, but not any more as I use Macs and PCs about equally. Certain things work better on one platform than another but most of it is simply familiarity.
 

Irata

Posts: 569   +735
TechSpot Elite
It remains to be seen. The 2020s will be interesting for hardware. The ryzen platform has been great, and if AMD manages decent gains with ryzen 4000 I'll believe they will stay on track hardware wise.

However, as shown with their multiple kerfuffles over the last 12 months, AMD still has a real problem with getting messaging to their customers, and with supporting their products. The fact it took concentrated media attention to get AMD to admit their Navi drivers were broken (and no, they still arn't great, and problems have been leaking back in for us older vega users) and the ryzen 4000 support debacle show that AMD is still flying by the seat of their pants in a support role, and their main strength is their hardware. Even then, the 5600xt VRAM screwup showed AMD still isnt communicating well on the hardware side at times.

If they want to become a permanent dominant force ala intel, they need to get their support system fixed. It shouldnt take 3+ weeks to run through the warranty process for a ryzen processor. It shouldnt take concentrated media attention and outrage from the community to get drivers working. It shouldnt take outcry from DIY customers for AMD to provide the support they sold their platform on. These things were very poorly through out, and they reflect badly on AMD's ability to plan ahead.

I've said since the ATi buyout that AMD needed a management cleanout, I said it after AMD fella sleep at the wheel with HD 6000, with the disasterous construction cores, the seamicro buyout, and Navi's driver disaster. I still say it. Lisa su has the hardware division running smoothly, now she needs to crack down on this corporate culture of lack of planning, poor support, and confusing communication.
Definitely agree that this needs to be improved but AMD's leadership had many, many problem areas to take care of and with their limited resources, they had to prioritize.

Where to start ? First of all, the needed a competitive product. Then they needed to regain the trust of business partners and financial markets by presenting a forward looking plan and delivering on that plan. The financials also needed to be taken care off since competing with several players that have a profit several times your revenue (each of them) is not easy. And in order to survive, you need to invest and innovate. Especially if at least some of your competitors play dirty.

The next important step would be to actually sell the product. This is working very well in the DYI market, but OEM are more important and there support is still lacking. But they are working on this.

So yes, there are still many improvements to be done but I'd rather AMD tackle each one by one according to priority than try to fix everything at once. The latter never works in (relatively) speaking smaller resource limited companies.

Having both worked at smaller companies with somewhat limited resources that sometimes can be "a bit" chaotic but also at very structured large(ish) companies I can see where each of the players is coming from.

That said, I can appreciate what Lisa Su and her management team have achieved so far. This is nothing short of impressive, the various open issues not withstanding.
 

Peter Farkas

Posts: 423   +222
I watched his latest video where he builds a Threadripper 3960x video workstation.
It was 3 hours long, but I skipped to the most important parts - specifically when he added the SSD and the 2080Ti.

Considering how much money he makes on Youtube, I'm really shocked he didn't go with higher specs: Faster CPU, more RAM, etc.

Someone with that much money could get a Mac Pro with over 1TB of RAM - or a top end Windows video editor but he made choices to spend way less - thus necessitating another build soon thereafter.

Perhaps that's how he chooses to make his Youtube money by purposefully spending less in order to have quickly obsolescing workstations? This way he can just keep making more videos and spending more for newer hardware?

I watch his videos but I find them to be mostly clickbaity and in many cases uninteresting.

It's no wonder when his Youtubber friends, who knows he builds servers, completely didn't ask him when they wanted to build one. I did watch that video.

Definitely not choices I'd make when I build my computer, computers for friends or when I order hardware for my business.
a mac pro? really? that is like burning money to heat the house instead of buying wood to burn... :)


I still wonder why anyone would buy a mac pro for that price.
 

Adi6293

Posts: 467   +505
Because they want one.
Because they can afford one.
Because they can.
Linus said many times he is not one for splashing his cash, he drive a car that's 10 years old, just because you can afford something doesn't mean you have to want it or need it and like many pointed out you can get something much better for the same price so there you go
 
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Rayneofpayne

Posts: 113   +83
Most PC people don't understand why Apple exists, they think that somehow hardware specs makes a computer. Your PC box is just that: a box. Big deal. It's what you do with it.

Apple exists because of software, the OS in particular and the OS/software experience in general. That's what people are buying, and is the same reason why people buy iPhones. In the iPhone's case, the hardware also happens to be better most of the time but that's just the sideshow. The OS and UI is the draw.

It's the same reason Linux exists, some people just don't want to deal with Windows. At the performance you get even with mid-level hardware, modest paper or benchmark hardware advantages simply don't matter.
The software is the only thing Apple has ever truly made(but still isn't their own) that is their own if that makes sense. I will give you UI and ease of use are their greatest strengths, the problem lies in the walled garden and the inherent BS that comes with it on top of that as well as the price per performance. Apple is the equivalent of a Hyundai Tiburon GT all style no real go.

....and absolutely style, the numbers that are benchmarks and real world use as well as compatibility with legacy and number of applications matter , well it's all about the numbers, you don't buy a sports car based on style and ease of use, you but it based on what you can afford and the numbers it brings, Apple has yet to figure out capitalism, it's only a superior experience if you have the style and put up the numbers sadly optimization can only go so far when your head is buried up your bum.
 

Adi6293

Posts: 467   +505
The software is the only thing Apple has ever truly made(but still isn't their own) that is their own if that makes sense. I will give you UI and ease of use are their greatest strengths, the problem lies in the walled garden and the inherent BS that comes with it on top of that as well as the price per performance. Apple is the equivalent of a Hyundai Tiburon GT all style no real go.

....and absolutely style, the numbers that are benchmarks and real world use as well as compatibility with legacy and number of applications matter , well it's all about the numbers, you don't buy a sports car based on style and ease of use, you but it based on what you can afford and the numbers it brings, Apple has yet to figure out capitalism, it's only a superior experience if you have the style and put up the numbers sadly optimization can only go so far when your head is buried up your bum.
Well I can do ANYTHING on my Windows PC but I can't do ANYTHING on a Mac Machine even though it's more expensive so yes I do wonder why they exist
 
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Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,381   +1,354
TechSpot Elite
The software is the only thing Apple has ever truly made(but still isn't their own) that is their own if that makes sense. I will give you UI and ease of use are their greatest strengths, the problem lies in the walled garden and the inherent BS that comes with it on top of that as well as the price per performance. Apple is the equivalent of a Hyundai Tiburon GT all style no real go.

....and absolutely style, the numbers that are benchmarks and real world use as well as compatibility with legacy and number of applications matter , well it's all about the numbers, you don't buy a sports car based on style and ease of use, you but it based on what you can afford and the numbers it brings, Apple has yet to figure out capitalism, it's only a superior experience if you have the style and put up the numbers sadly optimization can only go so far when your head is buried up your bum.
Emphasizing the above, really? Apple has totally and utterly figured out capitalism:

They sell "less" for more and are f***ing unbeatable at it.

Evidence: see AAPL profit, AAPL profit margin, AAPL cash in the bank, AAPL market capitalization.
 
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Rayneofpayne

Posts: 113   +83
Emphasizing the above, really? Apple has totally and utterly figured out capitalism:

They sell "less" for more and are f***ing unbeatable at it.

Evidence: see AAPL profit, AAPL profit margin, AAPL cash in the bank, AAPL market capitalization.
That actually isn't capitalism, just like the communist manifesto there is a capitalist manifesto. People should read it including yourself so you can understand why they are a defunct example of such.
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,318   +526
Apple use to have a good following on music and audio creation. In the past few years, has been falling out favor. Planned obsolescence of perfectly good working equipment was a common complaint. Can't really say, as I've never used Apple products. Just something I've come across perusing YT.
 
Man you need to go back to drawing board... Apple Xserve also was a failure and pc equivalent did the same for less, now you can buy pc hardware parts build a pc and install the mac os if you want which was the strongest point of Apple not that overpriced Mac pros, its only for Rich music producers and video editors
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,381   +1,354
TechSpot Elite
Apple use to have a good following on music and audio creation. In the past few years, has been falling out favor. Planned obsolescence of perfectly good working equipment was a common complaint. Can't really say, as I've never used Apple products. Just something I've come across perusing YT.
Yes, IMO by far the bloody worst thing about Apple products right now is how they manage updates and support for the macOS. A new "major" version of the OS every year and they only release Security updates for the current and previous 2 OSes. Running a ~2.5 year old OS? No new security for you.

Entwined with that is how Apple drops support for older Macs, which is done almost exclusively based on video card feature set. Right now that support is for Ivy Bridge Intel HD4000 and better (so 2012 Macs and later), last year it was Sandy Bridge HD3000 (2011) and later, and the year before it was Nvidia GeF 9400 and later (2008 or 2009 Macs).

Problem, is that's completely arbitrary as I have last year's OS running on a 2009 Nvidia 9400 Mac (w/very simple hacks) and others have this year's OS running on 2011 Intel HD3000 Macs and I think older Nvidia 9400 Macs as well. There are some minor bugs but for the most part these seem to be something that a company that profits $50 Billion/yr could easily manage to fix.This seems like something between laziness or planned obsolescence.
 
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Rayneofpayne

Posts: 113   +83
It certainly does, to the tune of $260 Billion revenue per year. Or $50 Billion profit, whichever you prefer.
Yeah, but they are not a leader in ANY market they participate in, worldwide. They make no physical products themselves nor do they invent everything(meaning they have zero manufacturing or worth in the market), their sole market and revenue is based on perception and marketing and eventually that market will fold in on itself popping just like the .com burst. They have no value to the actual market system they participate in as they simply copy paste already invented technologies.

Money and market worth are only upheld by fiction and fantasy. The only money they make is based on ignorance, perception, and marketing. Aka Steve Jobs "I don't know a damn thing about anything else but marketing" con-man schemes and yuppies buying into his BS. Any company dumb enough to be held ransom over patents from the same guy that put you in the red in the first place is just stupid, and that sums up Apple. Beyond the Apple 2 and the original business software they are nothing more than a zombie feeding on the market that someone should have double tapped a long time ago.
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 113   +83
Yes, IMO by far the bloody worst thing about Apple products right now is how they manage updates and support for the macOS. A new "major" version of the OS every year and they only release Security updates for the current and previous 2 OSes. Running a ~2.5 year old OS? No new security for you.

Entwined with that is how Apple drops support for older Macs, which is done almost exclusively based on video card feature set. Right now that support is for Ivy Bridge Intel HD4000 and better (so 2012 Macs and later), last year it was Sandy Bridge HD3000 (2011) and later, and the year before it was Nvidia GeF 9400 and later (2008 or 2009 Macs).

Problem, is that's completely arbitrary as I have last year's OS running on a 2009 Nvidia 9400 Mac (w/very simple hacks) and others have this year's OS running on 2011 Intel HD3000 Macs and I think older Nvidia 9400 Macs as well. There are some minor bugs but for the most part these seem to be something that a company that profits $50 Billion/yr could easily manage to fix.This seems like something between laziness or planned obsolescence.
Apple lost those markets more due to hardware and after a stable 64bit well supported environment, PC could simply brute Force past the optimization Apple had combined that with not evolving and losing compatibility with higher end hardware standards lost its grip on top of the walled garden causing problems with developers that eventually abandoned them as a platform.

Emphasizing the above, really? Apple has totally and utterly figured out capitalism:

They sell "less" for more and are f***ing unbeatable at it.

Evidence: see AAPL profit, AAPL profit margin, AAPL cash in the bank, AAPL market capitalization.
And I want to put this to bed already, Apple cannot even scratch their *** without companies like Samsung, LG, Qualcomm, Intel, AMD, Micron ect ect without them they simply have no product to sell, because the reality is they only modify already made standards and order customized already engineered hardware that locks people into cheaply made components in a pretty package with half assed engineering which is why their quality control issues are terribly bad.
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,381   +1,354
TechSpot Elite
Wow dude, calm down. No reason to hate Apple or anyone quite that much, it's just a company.

I don't get what you're really railing against here. Globalization? Not made here? Advertising? You are aware that restaurants don't grow/raise their own food? They buy it from someone else. You realize that AMD has someone else make their chips for them and Intel is doing some of that too? Sourcing your components from somewhere else is standard operating procedures for most (all?) big companies. And remember that Apple's big suppliers also depend on demand from Apple to keep themselves afloat, it's a two way street.

Your claims are fun (and some questionable) but in the end Apple is one of the most successful companies in the world and that's the point. If they don't keep up with the market and their competitors, they will be passed but there's no indication that will happen anytime soon. There's not much innovation in the phone, tablet, and PC market for anyone as they're mature commodities, and Apple is expanding their services sector which is sorely needed.

There's little indication that anything will change for Apple's future fortunes.
 
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theruck

Posts: 209   +85
“The biggest excitement this week for me was just that I upgraded my main machine, and for the first time in about 15 years, my desktop isn't Intel-based. No, I didn't switch to ARM yet, but I'm now rocking an AMD Threadripper 3970x.”

finally after 15 years he saved enough money to buy some CPU power