Car Tech Meet the Bugatti Chiron, the 1,500 HP successor to the Veyron

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,321   +3,424
Volkswagen has done this before with the Phaeton to demonstrate what could be technically done.....and they done did it...again.
And in the meantime, they cannot get their diesel engines to pass US emissions tests without cheating on the tests.
 

red1776

Posts: 5,124   +193
It's a top speed car, in every other category other super cars are superior.
Like how exactly?
Its faster to 60 than a P1, faster to 100 than..well anything else. Has more HP than most, that alone negates your comment .[/QUOTE]
in every other category other super cars are superior.[/QUOTE]
 

skinnybuttons

Posts: 14   +10
As Clarkson once screamed into a microphone at 250+mph, "The tires only last about 15 minutes at this speed, but that's OK, because the gas only lasts about 12."
 

amstech

Posts: 2,643   +1,802
Its faster to 60 than a P1, faster to 100 than..well anything else. Has more HP than most, that alone negates your comment
You only mentioned straight-line speed, nothing else.
There are about 15 categories.

Like how exactly? .
Skidpad G's, turn in, oversteer, understeer, weight per HP, HP distribution, aerodynamics, handling (this has about 4 sub categories), braking, ergonomics, etc, etc.
The Veyron was a heavy pig @ over two tons in weight and was all over the track; and got its butt kicked by cars with much less HP, maybe this one is much lighter? I hope so.

Great in a straight line, but on a track? No.
 

red1776

Posts: 5,124   +193
You only mentioned straight-line speed, nothing else.
There are about 15 categories.


Skidpad G's, turn in, oversteer, understeer, weight per HP, HP distribution, aerodynamics, handling (this has about 4 sub categories), braking, ergonomics, etc, etc.
The Veyron was a heavy pig @ over two tons in weight and was all over the track; and got its butt kicked by cars with much less HP, maybe this one is much lighter? I hope so.

Great in a straight line, but on a track? No.
you obviously make assumptions. The Veyron excelled at all of the above. it beat the much leaner Pagani and others around the track at top gear ( driven by Michael Schumacher) the brakes were second only to the Ferrari FXX and as far as aerodynamics...are you kidding?? A car that went 271mph with nary a shudder by definition has exceptional aerodynamics. And all while being an 'extreme luxury auto' I might say its a lot easier to strip a car to nothing but a shell with bare floor pans and a plastic windscreen (see Lamborghini) and have it perform than a leather seated, 14 speaker, electric seat etc and have it perform. and by the way...2.5 sec to 62. not even the McLaren P-1 did that so I really do not see where you get any traction calling the "two ton pig" an underperformer. The mere fact that it out performed cars half its weight makes it an engineering marvel
 
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amstech

Posts: 2,643   +1,802
you obviously make assumptions. The Veyron excelled at all of the abovel
It did ok.
It's too heavy to excell at all of those above, which is why its not top 5/top 10 in many handling categories, if it weren't for its ridiculous power making up for some shortcomings it would be slower, many cars take corners faster/handle better.
Before this turns into a tif-taf, rest assured that I love all sports cars, am not brand loyal to anything. I had a 2V Mustang, LT1 and LS1 Camaro and now have a 5.0 Coyote.
The Bugatti's are world class cars with world class performance, but when its 1100lbs heavier then say, a P1, its not going to handle anywhere as nice. In fact, its weight to HP is nothing special.
 
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red1776

Posts: 5,124   +193
It did ok.
It's too heavy to excell at all of those above, which is why its not top 5/top 10 in many handling categories, if it weren't for its ridiculous power making up for some shortcomings it would be slower, many cars take corners faster/handle better.
Before this turns into a tif-taf, rest assured that I love all sports cars, am not brand loyal to anything. I had a 2V Mustang, LT1 and LS1 Camaro and now have a 5.0 Coyote.
The Bugatti's are world class cars with world class performance, but when its 1100lbs heavier then say, a P1, its not going to handle anywhere as nice. In fact, its weight to HP is nothing special.
Well if we lived in a world where 'it was so' because amstech said so, you would be be set. un fortunately that is not how it works. Engineering is a wonderful thing and your assumptions regarding the weight of the Veyron re false. The Veyron is a an engineering marvel and the folks in white lab coats at Volkswagen set out to (and successfully) overcame a myriad of technical challenges that you simply made crass assumption about. I have aggregated some numbers here you can research yourself. You will find that despite the Veyron being a "overweight pig" the VW/Bugatti engineers created a concord creation that out excelled its leaner counterparts. in almost every castigatory. If you ever bothered to watch it run the track you would have noticed how incredibly flat it handles the bends, accelerated like a housefly , and handled like one of the stripped out shells like like people throwing unneeded weight off a plane going down. Not to mention it does 270MPH with heated leather seats and 14 speakers to listen to Beethoven's 5th whilst you listen to the real numbers.

veyronstats.JPG
 

amstech

Posts: 2,643   +1,802
Well if we lived in a world where 'it was so' because amstech said so, you would be be set. un fortunately that is not how it works. Engineering is a wonderful thing and your assumptions regarding the weight of the Veyron re false.
It's skidpad and slalom numbers aren't top 5/10.
It's too heavy.

For a much cheaper price, you can get cars alot faster in the 1/4.
A Mustang CobraJet, albeit a purpose built drag car, is still a factory car anyone can buy that costs MUCH less and runs a faster 1/4. Its lighter and setup to pull from a stop.
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/fords-8-sec-14-mile-2016-cobra-jet.html
To put things into perspective, as an 8-second car the 2016 Cobra Jet Mustang is on par with your "run of the mill" 2,000 HP Underground Racing Twin Turbo Gallardo, and that's pretty rarefied air.
The MSRP for the base 2016 Cobra Jet is $99,990, whereas the graphics option and the wheelie bar cost $1,995 apiece.
Think the Cobra is about 1000HP.
Gravity cannot be disregarded, lol.
 
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red1776

Posts: 5,124   +193
It's skidpad and slalom numbers aren't top 5/10.
It's too heavy.

For a much cheaper price, you can get cars alot faster in the 1/4.
A Mustang CobraJet, albeit a purpose built drag car, is still a factory car anyone can buy that costs MUCH less and runs a faster 1/4. Its lighter and setup to pull from a stop.
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/fords-8-sec-14-mile-2016-cobra-jet.html


Think the Cobra is about 1000HP.
Gravity cannot be disregarded, lol.
That makes no sense, you obviously did not pay any attention to the zonda comparison, and it does not matter the weight if it handles and covers the course flat and fast. you choose to ignore the numbers nd performance for your built in bias. You pre supposed it would not perform, I put up facts that it does and you on a childish vein are now disregarding the fact that it does perform with the best hyper cars because you don't want to be wrong. 'Skidpad' or not. It beats most supercars in most all categories. makes no difference if it carries 500 K more weight or not.
This 'skidpad that you hang your whole argument around is just silly. It performs ..or it does not. .Your mustang argument is just silly. a pruies is lighter as well and a lot of cars are. you know damn well that's not what you are paying for when you purchase a supercars. most "lighter" and cheaper cars wont go 270 mph, accel to 100 in 4.9 sec, run the track at v1.14 sec, have a drag cof of .37, 0-60 in 2.2 sec,
Your "too heavy" argument is a ridiculous non starter. The Veyron was not ever intended to be the lightest. It was intended to be the fastest and holds the record in many other categories. It is a super performing luxury car that despite its "extra weight" gets to 60,100,150, and 270mph faster than any other car. including its peers of significantly less weight.. I have not seen someone arue so much in the face of being proven wrong just because they didn't want to be wrong. your arguments are specious at best.. I don't car how much it weighs. 0-60 in 2.2 seconds is still 0-60 in 2.2 seconds...not to mention it stops as fast as its lighter counterparts. ..see that's the engineering genius that is the Veyron.
But you keep right on denying the facts if it makes you feel better.
 

amstech

Posts: 2,643   +1,802
The Veyron was not ever intended to be the lightest. It was intended to be the fastest and holds the record in many other categories.
But not on a skidpad, slalom, turn in or 1/4.
And certainly not on the scales lol.
 

red1776

Posts: 5,124   +193
That makes no sense, you obviously did not pay any attention to the zonda comparison, and it does not matter the weight if it handles and covers the course flat and fast. you choose to ignore the numbers nd performance for your built in bias. You pre supposed it would not perform, I put up facts that it does and you on a childish vein are now disregarding the fact that it does perform with the best hyper cars because you don't want to be wrong. 'Skidpad' or not. It beats most supercars in most all categories. makes no difference if it carries 500 K more weight or not.
This 'skidpad that you hang your whole argument around is just silly. It performs ..or it does not. .Your mustang argument is just silly. a pruies is lighter as well and a lot of cars are. you know damn well that's not what you are paying for when you purchase a supercars. most "lighter" and cheaper cars wont go 270 mph, accel to 100 in 4.9 sec, run the track at v1.14 sec, have a drag cof of .37, 0-60 in 2.2 sec,
Your "too heavy" argument is a ridiculous non starter. The Veyron was not ever intended to be the lightest. It was intended to be the fastest and holds the record in many other categories. It is a super performing luxury car that despite its "extra weight" gets to 60,100,150, and 270mph faster than any other car. including its peers of significantly less weight.. I have not seen someone argue so much in the face of being proven wrong just because they didn't want to be wrong. your arguments are specious at best.. I don't car how much it weighs. 0-60 in 2.2 seconds is still 0-60 in 2.2 seconds...not to mention it stops as fast as its lighter counterparts. ..see that's the engineering genius that is the Veyron.
But you keep right on denying the facts if it makes you feel better.

Gravity cannot be disregarded, lol.


Yes actually the Veyron is. As for the 'gravity comments..what? that makes no sense. here are a few numbers for you again:
veyronstats.JPG

  1. Pagani Huayra 01:13.8
  2. BAC Mono 01:14.3
  3. Ariel Atom V8 500 (Moist) 01:15.1
  4. Lamborghini Huracan 01:15.8
  5. McLaren MP4-12C 01:16.2
  6. Lamborghini Aventador 01:16.5
  7. Bugatti Veyron Super Sport 01:16.8
  8. Gumpert Apollo 01:17.1
  9. Ascari A10 01:17.3
  10. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT 01:17.5
  11. Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear Wing) 01:17.6
  12. Noble M600 (cold) 01:17.7
  13. Pagani Zonda (Clubsport Version) 01:17.8
  14. Nissan GT-R (2012) 01:17.8
  15. Caterham Seven Superlight R500 (cold) 01:17.9
  16. Bugatti Veyron 01:18.3
  17. Pagani Zonda F 01:18.4
  18. Maserati MC12 01:18.9
  19. Ferrari Enzo 01:19.0
  20. Ferrari 458 01:19.1
  21. Ariel Atom Atom 2 300 01:19.5
  22. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 01:19.5
  23. Porsche 997 GT2 01:19.5
  24. Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Roadster 01:19.6
  25. Nissan GT-R 01:19.7
  26. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 01:19.7
  27. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 01:19.8
  28. Ferrari 599 GTO 01:19.8
  29. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 01:19.8
  30. Porsche Carrera GT 01:19.8
Well there you have at number seven the hefty Veyron running better lap than the much lighter roundup of supercars.
In addition in the source above you can see its also faster to 62mph, 80mph,100mph,125mph,200mpmh, and the fastest period at 271mph.
It also out breaks the Zonda by a good margin as well as runs faster lap times to all but seven of the impressive supercars that have made the trek over the Top Gear test track piloted by Michael Schumacher no less.
...so lets see. You were forwarding the argument that there is more to a supercar than top speed..okay.
We have:
1 Top Speed
2 Braking
3 Lap times
4 Horsepower
5 Torque
6 Skid pad
7 Slalom
8 Drag Coefficiency

It's skidpad and slalom numbers aren't top 5/10.
It's too heavy.

For a much cheaper price, you can get cars alot faster in the 1/4.
A Mustang CobraJet, albeit a purpose built drag car, is still a factory car anyone can buy that costs MUCH less and runs a faster 1/4. Its lighter and setup to pull from a stop.

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/fords-8-sec-14-mile-2016-cobra-jet.html


Think the Cobra is about 1000HP.


Umm okay, but so what? a lot of cars are cheap and fast in a straight line. I built an 8 second Chevy Nova ll years ago. As I defy you to show me someone who is deciding whether to purchase a Mustang or the Bugatti Veyron.
The Veyron is loaded with records held, speed, innovation, engineering patents, W-16 quad turbo, 1200 HP, braking records,fastest to any speed, luxury amenities, etc...etc.
everything that makes a supercar a supercar that still outruns/performs cars coming out currently

Lest you think I am blindly bias...My favorite car is the ENZO.

"It's too heavy."
....apparently it is not.


I do love a good debate though. ;)


 

amstech

Posts: 2,643   +1,802
  1. Pagani Huayra 01:13.8
  2. BAC Mono 01:14.3
  3. Ariel Atom V8 500 (Moist) 01:15.1
  4. Lamborghini Huracan 01:15.8
  5. McLaren MP4-12C 01:16.2
  6. Lamborghini Aventador 01:16.5
  7. Bugatti Veyron Super Sport 01:16.8
....apparently it is not.


I do love a good debate though. ;)
Hmm 7th place ain't too bad.
Hahahaha!!

The fact that 10 other cars are within a second or two means nothing either!
What an engineering marvel...that weighs 4100 lbs.
 
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cliffordcooley

Posts: 12,379   +5,781
I complain all the time about things I know I could make better. When it comes to engineering high performance cars, I know I don't have the needed knowledge and choose to keep my mouth shut (on this topic anyway).