Nvidia's top-of-the-line CMP cryptomining GPU is now available for $4,300

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,755   +5,195
A bubble that is larger than the dot-com?
Give it time. Sooner or later, every bubble finds a pin.
I hate to say this but you are correct. Also looking how America is with pump and dump greed and how this country is run by the Biden administration allowing shady f*** and selling out our country for their own gain Crypto will help the rich get richer.
Pump and dump greed is politically agnostic in case you have yet to figure that out.

And which administration passed a tax cut for the rich disguised as a phony tax cut for the middling class?

I find it amazing that some would prefer a dictatorship and still believe in that the last administration won the election although there have been partisan (GOP) and non-partisan audits that have concluded THERE WAS NO MASSIVE FRAUD. In fact, though the "Fearless Leader" tried to prove fraud ever since 2016, THERE WAS NO MASSIVE FRAUD. And still we have people walking around with their fingers in their ears mumbling LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, FRAUD.

Biden is president. Get over it. Maybe you will get the chance in 2024 to elect your dictator again.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,684   +6,464
@wiyosaya I've concocted a conspiracy theory about the origin of bitcoin, which I can say is quite clever and insidious, with all due modesty.

Bernie Madoff, that old scoundrel, knows a lot more about computers than anyone gives him credit for. He invented block chain coding,, wrote it down on toilet paper, and bribed the jail guards (**) to take it out to a nameless accomplice.for him.

OK, that's enough for me "tonight". I'm going to power down my Lava Lamps, and hit the sack.

I most likely won't be able to sleep though. I'll be too busy kicking myself in the a**, for wasting all that electricity, which I could have used for coin mining.. :poop:

BTW, I got my covid booster shot Friday. I guess I haven't caught on to the fact that, "covid,is a Democrat hoax.

(**) Sorry, "corrections officers"
I find it amazing that some would prefer a dictatorship and still believe in that the last administration won the election although there have been partisan (GOP) and non-partisan audits that have concluded THERE WAS NO MASSIVE FRAUD. In fact, though the "Fearless Leader" tried to prove fraud ever since 2016, THERE WAS NO MASSIVE FRAUD. And still we have people walking around with their fingers in their ears mumbling LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, FRAUD.

Biden is president. Get over it. Maybe you will get the chance in 2024 to elect your dictator again.
Dude, hair trigger much? :rolleyes: šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£ šŸ¤£
 
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Bl00dyMinded

Posts: 376   +539
I'm eating popcorn here while mining on my two gaming PCs with my 3x 3070s. Thanks to mining, I have paid off both computers which costed me over $3k in total before the GPU price increase :). Now all my profits are just used in buying more crypto. Haters gonna hate.
 

eforce

Posts: 585   +732
That's funny to say, considering Bitcoin was created as a hedge against another 2008.
I think the collapse of the fiat system will make 2008 look like a picnic, even gold won't be very helpful in the midst of the crisis only after the currencies are reset.
 
Any of the mining connoisseurs can tell us if this is good?

Google shows a 3080 at supposedly 50mhps so if these can do 3 times as much and MSRP for under 3x the price and run and faaaar less power than 3x3080 intuitively seems like a good deal.

Maybe not good enough that gpus start loosing appeal and that also depends entirely on availability on these new things but maybe things could get a bit better by 2022?
This is an awful deal and the #1 reason miners are using gaming gpus. A 3080 LHR will do roughly 70MH/sec. And averages 1200. 3x3080s would bet you more than this thing. Heck 3x3060ti founders cards @ 60mh and 400 a pop would beat this thing and would use less electricity doing it.

Miners are also going to take roi into consideration and whether it can be resold. Ethereum is going proof of stake soon and these mining cards may not make enough to even cover the expense of purchasing. People will probably dump their cards when that happens and the only thing that is profitable are highly efficient cards. They may get a couple hundred bucks out of a 30 series card but they won't get anything out of a dedicated miner.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,684   +6,464
I'm eating popcorn here while mining on my two gaming PCs with my 3x 3070s. Thanks to mining, I have paid off both computers which costed me over $3k in total before the GPU price increase :). Now all my profits are just used in buying more crypto. Haters gonna hate.
Oddly enough, I think I've argued with that avatar under a different alias before :confused:
 

eforce

Posts: 585   +732
Practical uses for gold are limited and exclusive uses even more so as there are usually substitute alloys that will suffice. In other words, gold's high value is derived from... wait for it... fiat! Gold has really high value because we as a collective have all agreed that it does. Same thing with silver, although silver has more industrial uses than gold.

Gold and bitcoin are very similar because they both act as a store of value that cannot be arbitrarily inflated. While bitcoin cannot be used as a corrosion-resistant coating, gold cannot be securely transferred all over the world quickly and easily. They both have their advantages but in terms of being used as money, bitcoin has the edge, an edge that gets stronger the more time passes.
Bitcoin can be inflated if the majority agrees to it, gold is permanently immutable.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,684   +6,464
I think the collapse of the fiat system will make 2008 look like a picnic, even gold won't be very helpful in the midst of the crisis only after the currencies are reset.
Meh, who cares, I don't need free child care, free pre-K, or free junior college, (13th & 14 grades), anyway.

OTOH, if the government defaults after Dec 3rd, and they stop sending out Social Security checks, I'll be in deep do-do.
It can be easily taken and taxed by government though
True enough, but the taxes will always be way less than the money you'd you'd have to give the local land baron for renting it. (Assuming it's paid off when you retire)

If the state were to seize your property via eminent domain, you'd likely get more worthless money for, than you'd get worthless money in the open market. No?
 
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merikafyeah

Posts: 268   +218
The only sticking point here is, that bitcoin must be converted to local currencies, before it has any value whatsoever. That is not the case with gold..
This is demonstrably incorrect. I know of several means of exchanging bitcoins directly for goods or services. For example, any VPN worth using will accept bitcoin as payment. How many places do you know of that will accept gold or silver coins as direct payment?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,684   +6,464
How many places do you know of that will accept gold or silver coins as direct payment?
Conversely, why would anybody be stupid enough to spend true gold or silver coins at the local bodega? Since all you could get for them is the face value.

You could however, march in with a bucket full of pennies, and they'd be forced to take them.

Beings as I'm a fairly reasonable and polite person, (in public anyway), I'd most likely roll them before I tried to pass them.
 
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merikafyeah

Posts: 268   +218

Bitcoin can be inflated if the majority agrees to it, gold is permanently immutable.
You make it sound like that's a bad thing. The majority agreeing to something is certainly better than just one central entity arbitrarily stealing your purchasing power by printing trillions of dollars out of thin air.

Gold is an element, so it is indeed "physically immutable", but just glancing at any spot price index for gold which spans several decades will immediately show that gold's market value can and does fluctuate a fair bit over time, which by definition is the opposite of "immutable".
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,684   +6,464
Gold is an element, so it is indeed "physically immutable", but just glancing at any spot price index for gold which spans several decades will immediately show that gold's market value can and does fluctuate a fair bit over time, which by definition is the opposite of "immutable".
Would you agree at least that gold's fluctuations far less "flammable" than the price of bitcoin?

I'm pretty sure that Elon musk couldn't simply run his mouth, and cause gold to drop say, 20%?
 

merikafyeah

Posts: 268   +218
Question still remains if crypto currencies are not quantum encrypted what are people putting there futures in?
Your usage of the word "quantum" here is rather bizarre. Powerful quantum computers don't exist yet and even if they did they are not capable of undoing an entire blockchain.
At this point crypto currencies is the opposite of cash and precious metals in terms of privacy.
People have already thought of this back in 2013. In case you haven't heard, privacy coins are a thing. Look up Monero.
Finally a reminder to all through history after any empire crumbles, under all that fire the previous metals remain and probably at its highest value worth. Million dollar bitcoin anyone?
Going by recent history, bitcoin reaching a million dollars might even be conservative:
image_2021-10-24_120847.png

The US dollar and the old Zimbabwe dollar are the same category of fiat, both are equally susceptible to hyper-inflation. Let that sink in for a moment.
 

Gahl1k

Posts: 63   +66
I do not think that Crypto will go bust anytime soon.

It's useful to watch closely what the US is doing with respect to Crypto and right now everybody and their little sister are investing into cryptomining in fact so much so that whole power plants in the US have been converted to supply large scale deployment crypto-operations.

These ppl are investing their money for the long haul and they are certainly no fools which means that Crypto will be with us for several years to come, maybe even several decades to come, and will be common, popular and widespread.

PC gaming will be a hobby for the rich and the vast majority of PC gamers, those who now own GTX 1060's, 1050TI's and equivalent GPUs will abandon PC gaming and will instead permanently convert to Console Gaming.

So-called gaming GPU's will be used exclusively for mining or for both mining and gaming for those that can afford them.
Yes, Crypto won't go bust anytime soon, however, GPU mining is all about Ethereum. Even if ETH's hashrate was distributed evenly on all the other GPU-mineable tokens, their profitability will hugely plummet to the point of unsustainability.

We are only one step away from ETH2ā€”implementing The Merge on the mainnet. Every other milestone has been achieved and implemented smoothly. Proof-of-Stake is already working on their devnet.

The real reason GPU prices didn't increase this month despite Crypto prices skyrocketing is uncertainty among miners as we draw closer to 1Q2022. Mining forums are very pessimistic at the moment because the situation is helpless/hopeless.
 

merikafyeah

Posts: 268   +218
Conversely, why would anybody be stupid enough to spend true gold or silver coins at the local bodega? Since all you could get for them is the face value.

You could however, march in with a bucket full of pennies, and they'd be forced to take them.

Beings as I'm a fairly reasonable and polite person, (in public anyway), I'd most likely roll them before I tried to pass them.
I was referring to the usage of precious metal coins by their spot price, not their face value. American silver eagles, or Canadian silver maple leaves are 1 oz of 99.9% pure silver and at the time of writing their value hovers around $60-80 USD per coin. Technically any vendor could accept one coin in exchange for an item or service costing about $60-80, but then you'd run into the ancient problem of defending against metal dilution and forgery and no one in the 21st century has time for that save for people who specifically trade in precious metals. So even government-minted coins, I.e. the form of gold and silver with the highest possible liquidity, must first be exchanged for typical fiat currencies before they actually become useful, which is no different from crypto, except gold and silver are very heavy, cumbersome, and difficult to secure.

Would you agree at least that gold's fluctuations far less "flammable" than the price of bitcoin?

I'm pretty sure that Elon musk couldn't simply run his mouth, and cause gold to drop say, 20%?
Time is very important. Time is everything.

A tweet dropped the value. China banning crypto dropped the value. The key here is the past tense. Where is the value now? Record-breaking, higher than ever. Day to day, month to month the value goes up and down like any other commodity. People call bitcoin "volatile" because of these seemingly wild dips and surges, but the "volatile" label becomes less and less true the further you zoom out. If you look at the bitcoin value graph from the beginning to the present, the overall trend only goes up. The same can't be said for stocks, and last I checked a tweet from Elon also affected stock prices.

Focusing on short momentary changes only gives you tunnel-vision.

image_2021-10-24_131359.png
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,684   +6,464
I was referring to the usage of precious metal coins by their spot price, not their face value. American silver eagles, or Canadian silver maple leaves are 1 oz of 99.9% pure silver and at the time of writing their value hovers around $60-80 USD per coin. Technically any vendor could accept one coin in exchange for an item or service costing about $60-80, but then you'd run into the ancient problem of defending against metal dilution and forgery and no one in the 21st century has time for that save for people who specifically trade in precious metals. So even government-minted coins, I.e. the form of gold and silver with the highest possible liquidity, must first be exchanged for typical fiat currencies before they actually become useful, which is no different from crypto, except gold and silver are very heavy, cumbersome, and difficult to secure.


Time is very important. Time is everything.

A tweet dropped the value. China banning crypto dropped the value. The key here is the past tense. Where is the value now? Record-breaking, higher than ever. Day to day, month to month the value goes up and down like any other commodity. People call bitcoin "volatile" because of these seemingly wild dips and surges, but the "volatile" label becomes less and less true the further you zoom out. If you look at the bitcoin value graph from the beginning to the present, the overall trend only goes up. The same can't be said for stocks, and last I checked a tweet from Elon also affected stock prices.

Focusing on short momentary changes only gives you tunnel-vision.

View attachment 88009
Given the choice of bitcoin in the event of a fiat money meltdown, I pick tangible goods which can be traded for goods directly, as opposed to bitcoin every time, You can show me all the graphs you want, you won't changer my mind on that particular point.

Before fiat currency, gold and silver were actual money, I see no reason that it wouldn't be possible to return to those standards.
You stick to your story, go buy a power factory and a hundred or so $4,300.00 video cards, maybe you'll rule the world someday. Best of luck to you.

I can't think of, or conceptualize or envision, a "cyber gold rush" with imaginary number strings to be ultimately successful, I guess I'm just old and set in my ways..

There are too many variables affecting bitcoin. AFAIK, the creator of bitcoin wishes to be "anonymous, and there are only a fixed number of them supposed to exist. Depending on how many of coins this "anonymous creator" has kept for himself, would directly correlate to how much he or she could make out of this hysteria,being at the very top of the pyramid.. I will grant you that many people stand to make a killing, but there also an many have potentially thrown away their money. .
 
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Dimitriid

Posts: 1,337   +2,625
This is an awful deal and the #1 reason miners are using gaming gpus. A 3080 LHR will do roughly 70MH/sec. And averages 1200. 3x3080s would bet you more than this thing. Heck 3x3060ti founders cards @ 60mh and 400 a pop would beat this thing and would use less electricity doing it.

Looks like the numbers I googled were way off and in that case things will basically remain the same.

Miners are also going to take roi into consideration and whether it can be resold. Ethereum is going proof of stake soon and these mining cards may not make enough to even cover the expense of purchasing. People will probably dump their cards when that happens and the only thing that is profitable are highly efficient cards. They may get a couple hundred bucks out of a 30 series card but they won't get anything out of a dedicated miner.

We've been hearing about that change coming "soon" for a full year now. Not saying Eth people aren't saying that mind you but I am saying this "soon" is permanently on hold because it just doesn't happens or even gets announced with a solid date.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 787   +994
The only sticking point here is, that bitcoin must be converted to local currencies, before it has any value whatsoever. That is not the case with gold..
That's 100% false. That it can does not mean that it has to.

REAL ESTATE is the best hedge against inflation.

Can't make "more land".

ain't easy to make "more houses" - especially with inflated material cost.
Buildings can be blown up. Crypto can't.
 
Agreed about the "soon" but the devs are definitely getting closer. They're anticipating the merge sometime between February 2022 and June 2022. There's been some major work done this year that clears the way for the merge. Everyone thought that eip1559 which was introduced this past August would take a lot of profitability in mining way and people would dump their gpus then. Mining revenues only declined by 15 - 20% so mining remained profitable enough to push off the great gpu glut that is coming. I would anticipate a lot of gpus on the market by 2nd half of next year. There's no way the other alt coins can take the mining power from the ethereum network and remain profitable.
 

merikafyeah

Posts: 268   +218
Given the choice of bitcion in the event of a fiat money meltdown, I pick tangible goods which can be traded for goods directly, as opposed to bitcoin every time, You can show me all the graphs you want, you won't changer my mind on that particular point.
Bartering is fine, so long as the person who has what you need just so happens to need what you have as well. I wouldn't bet on this coincidence occurring reliably however.

Before fiat currency, gold and silver were actual money, I see no reason that it wouldn't be possible to return to those standards.
Gold and silver are still around and they're still considered actual money. In fact, before bitcoin, gold and silver were the only reliable stores of value available. But the reason why gold and silver won't make a mass comeback is the same reason why it isn't being used widely right now. It's not because it isn't possible, but because it's simply too impractical. As I've said previously, you'd have to constantly check for forgery and dilution of actual precious metal content, not to mention transporting large amounts of precious metal constantly is asking to be robbed. And if the government could seize gold once, it could do it again.

95% of the world's currency supply is digital fiat. To switch back to coins would be like foregoing electricity. Everything would grind to a halt. The whole reason why banks came into existence in the first place was precisely to solve the cumbersome nature of precious metals. They would securely hold your gold and give you a receipt for that claim of gold. Handing someone that receipt is the same as handing someone that amount of gold. This is the birth of paper money. Going back to gold would be like starting all over again, except there's one big problem: there isn't enough gold to match the value of all the goods and services in the world today. This is because the current world doesn't run on money, it runs on debt. 95% of the world's total currency not being tied to gold or anything real means 95% of the world's "money" is actually debt. You can't suddenly remove 95% of a person's blood and expect them to adapt. It's the same with the world economy.

You stick to your story, go buy a power factory and a hundred oe so $4,300.00 video cards, maybe you'll rule the world someday. Best of luck to you.
Buying and using bitcoin is very different from mining it. You don't need to buy a gold mine and hire dozens of workers just to use gold coins that are already in existence.

I can't think of, or conceptualize or envision, a "cyber gold rush" with imaginary number strings to be ultimately successful, I guess I'm just old and set in my ways.
The "rush" is over. Now it's just a steadily increasing adoption, much like the internet itself. Remember when people thought this newfangled "internet" wouldn't be a thing?

There are too many variables affecting bitcoin. AFAIK, the creator of bitcoinnn widhes to be "anonymous, and there arex conly a fixed number of them supposed to exist. Depending on how namjy of coins this anonymous creater" has kept for himself, would diredtly correlate to how much he or she could make out of this hysteria. I will grant you that many people stand to make a killing, but there also an many have potentially thrown away their money.
The Earth's supply of gold is fixed and finite, unless a small meteor with high gold content makes its way to Earth, eventually most of the gold available will be mined. In the same way there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. The key difference here is that bitcoin is near infinitely divisible into smaller denominations so the limited supply will never be an issue, so however many bitcoins Satoshi Nakamoto has stashed away is irrelevant. Gold coins on the other hand, can only be made so small, and even then their value is often too high for everyday transactions.

As for gains and losses, I can't say for other cryptocurrencies, but as for bitcoin specifically, I can say that 100% of people who have bought bitcoin some time in the past and have held on to them to this day have certainly not lost any money.
 

godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
Your usage of the word "quantum" here is rather bizarre. Powerful quantum computers don't exist yet and even if they did they are not capable of undoing an entire blockchain.

People have already thought of this back in 2013. In case you haven't heard, privacy coins are a thing. Look up Monero.

Going by recent history, bitcoin reaching a million dollars might even be conservative:
View attachment 88008

The US dollar and the old Zimbabwe dollar are the same category of fiat, both are equally susceptible to hyper-inflation. Let that sink in for a moment.
Thanks for replying.
Question if the state declares crypto currencies as illegal wouldn't that make them worthless. Just a few weeks ago China banned crypto currencies.
Also If the irs has access to every bank account transaction when you buy Montero that transaction can be marketed as private but in reality if the IRS can log that transaction it doesn't seem that private/ secure anymore.
Lastly while quantum computers are in its infancy stages but are the future in computing. We can all agree that quantum level encryption is a higher level of encryption than current blockchain. Do you have proof that a quantum server can't decrypt current blockchains?
 

godrilla

Posts: 324   +155
That's 100% false. That it can does not mean that it has to.


Buildings can be blown up. Crypto can't.
If some finite property is damaged then that would cause the remaining property to go up in some places and down in affected places. After Sandy the east coast got damaged pretty bad and thus the property value plummeted only to recover half a decade later. Currently Florida real estate is blooming due to people migrating from blue states, but current pricing stagnated due to building collapse over the summer . While property does go up with inflation the Fed can control the price with altering the loan rates. Rates go up property stays flat and can even drop as with current rumors for next year although I believe that prices with stagnate.
With crypto currencies there is different risks. Due to the privacy of crypto currencies there is a lot of misinformation that is spread and thus the price can be extremely volatile. With property the price is less volatile and thus less risky. With a lower risk there is usually often a lower reward as well.
 
Only problem is three 3060Tis delivers a higher hashrate at barely more power consumption, and even at scalped prices that's still cheaper...
 

merikafyeah

Posts: 268   +218
Question if the state declares crypto currencies as illegal wouldn't that make them worthless. Just a few weeks ago China banned crypto currencies.
A state banning something doesn't make it worthless, it makes it illegal. There's an important distinction. For instance, if you hypothetically had some marijuana in your pocket and crossed state borders into a place where marijuana is illegal, does the value of the marijuana in your pocket immediately drop to zero? Obviously not, otherwise there would never be an instance of someone trying to sell marijuana away from the eyes of the law. Did alcohol become worthless during Prohibition? Governments aren't great at learning from history but even they will think twice about revisiting this old classic.

Also If the irs has access to every bank account transaction when you buy Montero that transaction can be marketed as private but in reality if the IRS can log that transaction it doesn't seem that private/ secure anymore.
Given the large opposition to that proposed IRS bill, it's not certain if it will actually pass, but even if it did, the proposal only involves banks reporting the aggregate total annual amount going both in and out of an account, not each and every individual transaction. Their stated reasoning for this is to identify suspicious accounts that for example report $10,000 income but $3,000,000 of spending. It's obvious government overreach but they're not dumb enough to go full Orwell right out the gate. It's their intention to remove freedoms inch by inch, like slowly raising the water temp so the frog doesn't realize it's being boiled.

That aside, one does not need to use their bank account to buy Monero, in fact most people who buy Monero specifically avoid leaving behind an obvious paper trail. For example there are local exchanges (like LocalMonero) which function like Craigslist where one can meet up and buy Monero with cash. Prepaid cards are another popular option for buying crypto anonymously. Not that all this is super critical because once you actually have the Monero, what you do with it is completely unknowable by design.

Lastly while quantum computers are in its infancy stages but are the future in computing. We can all agree that quantum level encryption is a higher level of encryption than current blockchain. Do you have proof that a quantum server can't decrypt current blockchains?
A few misunderstandings here. Quantum computing isn't a "superior" form of computing but a different approach to solving very specific problems not feasible to attempt with classical computing. Techspot has a great introduction to quantum computers:
In short, quantum computers can't give you higher FPS in games, but it may finally enable us to factor prime numbers really quickly.

Similarly, quantum cryptography is not necessarily better than current cryptography. Certain aspects of quantum entanglement makes it easier to spot when a transmission is intercepted or tampered with during transit but as for securing data at rest, quantum encryption will not necessarily outperform current encryption standards in all metrics.

In regards to cryptocurrencies, the actual "crypto" part occurs during mining and verification of blocks. The blockchain itself is only a ledger, a record of all previous blocks and transactions. A quantum computer can't undo a blockchain because it can't rewrite causality. Every entry on the blockchain is hashed based on the entry before it, which means if any entry is altered, all entries before it must also be altered, and not just on one machine but on 51% of all machines which carry a copy of the blockchain. The near impossibility of this event occurring is where the faith in the integrity of bitcoin comes from. It is the people's money, not the Fed's.