Pavel Durov charged in France for failure to moderate illegal content on Telegram

[midian182]

What just happened? Pavel Durov, the CEO of messaging app Telegram, has been charged by French authorities over allegations he allowed criminal activity on the app. Durov was arrested in France on Saturday. He is barred from leaving the country and only avoided being held in custody by paying a 5 million euro ($5.56 million) bail. Durov must also report to a police station twice a week.

Durov was arrested by the Air Transport Gendarmerie (GTA) on the tarmac of Le Bourget airport around 8 p.m. on Saturday, shortly after stepping off his private jet.

The Russian-born billionaire, who became a French citizen in 2021, was arrested on the authorization of the OFMIN (Office to Combat Violence Against Minors). His charges include operating a platform that facilitates the spread of sexual images of children and is used by organized crime for drug trafficking and fraud. It's also claimed that Telegram refused to cooperate with investigators when asked to share documents and information.

French authorities said earlier this week that Durov's arrest was part of an investigation into Telegram's failure to moderate alleged criminal activity on the app.

In France, preliminary charges against an individual mean that while authorities strongly believe a crime has been committed, more time is allowed for further investigation.

"Telegram's CEO, Pavel Durov, has nothing to hide and travels frequently in Europe," Telegram said in a statement. "It is absurd to claim that a platform, or its owner, are responsible for abuse of that platform."

"Almost a billion users globally use Telegram as means of communication and as a source of vital information. We're awaiting a prompt resolution of this situation. Telegram is with you all."

Telegram said in February that it has 41 million users in the EU, but some believe it is purposely lowering this number to avoid being classed as a "gatekeeper" under the EU's Digital Services Act (DSA). Those services with 45 million monthly active users – such as Alphabet, Meta, and Microsoft – fall into this category, and are subject to tighter EU regulations. Telegram was supposed to provide updated user figures this month, but it only declared that its average number of monthly active users was "significantly fewer" than 45 million.

Durov's arrest is causing outcry in Russia, with some government officials claiming the move was politically motivated.

The Russian embassy in France issued a statement on Facebook that read: "Following the media reports about the detention of P Durov, the French authorities were immediately requested to clarify the reasons for the detention and to provide for the protection of Mr Durov's rights and facilitate consular access."

"As of today, the French authorities are, at the present time, not co-operating on this issue."

Russia says the arrest illustrates the West's double standards when it comes to freedom of speech.

Russia ordered a ban on Telegram in 2018, a week after state communications regulator Roskomnadzor filed a lawsuit aimed at limiting access to the app within the country. The ban was lifted in 2020 after Russia failed in its efforts to block Telegram.

Masthead: TechCrunch

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Pavel Durov charged in France for failure to moderate illegal content on Telegram

 

[VitalyT]

That's like trying to pin GTA crimes on the car manufacturer. Doesn't get much dumber than this, but hey - it is France, so I'm not surprised. Let's hope he doesn't end under the guillotine.

 

[BbN48]

This seems politically motivated.

 

[Mihai S]

I bet there's more than meets the eye here. The indictment specifies how French laws—like them or not—were broken. Telegram claims it follows the law, yet French authorities seem to have documented instances where it broke the law.

According to Bloomberg (LINK)...

Paris Prosecutor Laure Beccuau said that while Telegram appeared in numerous cases that focused on crimes on minors, drug trafficking or online hate, her teams noted the platform’s “near complete” lack of response to legal requests for cooperation. A similar situation was reported by authorities in neighboring countries, including Belgium.

Let's see how this plays out.

PS: Here's another article that offers more details on the indictment itself: LINK

 

[Vanderlinde]

Before anyone defending privacy and all that, think for one second the sheer amount of forbidden content being shared, the amount of people being doxed on there, and the crime related stuff (selling) that happens. Again that platform needs moderation - and it is under no circumstances that a platform with 40 million of users can get away with zero to none moderation.

I get it - it's one of the few apps that uphold privacy, but nothing you ever communicate over a digital line, is ever private. Live with it.

 

[wiyosaya]

That's like trying to pin GTA crimes on the car manufacturer. Doesn't get much dumber than this, but hey - it is France, so I'm not surprised.

Just in case you are not being sarcastic, Exactly that kind of GTA happened recently with certain Kia and Hyundai vehicles, and Kia and Hyundai got blamed for it. Who knew that putting a USB slot under the steering wheel cover, that could start the car when you insert a USB key and turn it, as a mechanical switch without requiring any sort of authorization, that people would find the slot and stick stuff in it, turn it, then go for a joy-ride.

People are not angels. Its just common sense, IMO, that people will abuse anything when they figure that they can get away with it and figure out how to do it. That's why sites, including TS, have moderators.

 

[ScottSoapbox]

It's like arresting Verizon’s CEO because criminals use mobile phones.

The real reason is cel carriers let governments spy on *all* of their customers and the encrypted messaging services do not.

 

[Thanthan]

That's like trying to pin GTA crimes on the car manufacturer. Doesn't get much dumber than this, but hey - it is France, so I'm not surprised.

No, it’s like suing a car salesman for not disclosing the owner of a car used for a hit & run, after being served a warrant. Not necessary as cars are registered under there owner in most countries, but that would be the direct parallel.

Telegram refuses to comply with court warrants. But yea… let’s all act like protecting pedophiles against search warrants is a virtue…

 

[MyIOnU]

So, we can arrest French President for failing to stop criminals or illegal things in France?

 

[Vanderlinde]

It's like arresting Verizon’s CEO because criminals use mobile phones.

The real reason is cel carriers let governments spy on *all* of their customers and the encrypted messaging services do not.

Its been like that since the introduction of the first mobile phone, 2G.

https://rahalindrachapa.medium.com/...n-codes-could-be-used-for-spying-8ad343ece36a

The standard would not be introduced into France if the encryption, standard 64 bits was lowered to 40 bits. And guess who would benefit the most from a lowered encryption standard? Exactly. The (french) goverment.

In order for them to be adopted by such a large country they would have to comply - or else, the standard would not even be accepted. All providers, Google, Meta, Apple, anything that is within the shoes of a gatekeeper and such, even ISP's are by law forced to co-operate. You don't do that? Then your product would be forbidden.

Telegram is no different - and the stuff being shared and done on that platform with ZERO moderation needs to be addressed. It's that simple.

Now imagine if Apple or google denies - they would lose complete of EU as a market. Do you really think these company's who make billions a year would sacrifice their position because of the privacy of a few thousands a year? Think again.

It's all sold to the public as terrorism, CP and such but it's obviously used for far more then you think. Mass surveillance has already been documented by edward snowden and how the goverment is implying a grand eye into everything.

If you want nobody to listen to your stuff; don't email. Don't call. Dont use a cell phone. Nobody could mess with 2 people meeting in the middle with zero communication.

 

[Uncle Al]

"It is absurd to claim that a platform, or its owner, are responsible for abuse of that platform."

What is absurd is that these companies are allowed to get away with it with no fear of punishment. The day of companies being without liability (by law) is long since over and the Congress needs to remove all protections. These companies should be given no more protection than any other company.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Just in case you are not being sarcastic, Exactly that kind of GTA happened recently with certain Kia and Hyundai vehicles, and Kia and Hyundai got blamed for it. Who knew that putting a USB slot under the steering wheel cover, that could start the car when you insert a USB key and turn it, as a mechanical switch without requiring any sort of authorization, that people would find the slot and stick stuff in it, turn it, then go for a joy-ride.

People are not angels. Its just common sense, IMO, that people will abuse anything when they figure that they can get away with it and figure out how to do it. That's why sites, including TS, have moderators.

So you punish people who are breaking the law, not the platforms. This isnt hard.

Notice that no other tech CEOs have arrest warrants, depsite their platforms being used in the same way? How about the utility companies, they are abetting the same crimes, why are they not arrested?

This is politically motivated, full stop. Just like the arrest of people who speak against macron. But its the West, so it must be OK, right?

 

[Theinsanegamer]

No, it’s like suing a car salesman for not disclosing the owner of a car used for a hit & run, after being served a warrant. Not necessary as cars are registered under there owner in most countries, but that would be the direct parallel.

Telegram refuses to comply with court warrants. But yea… let’s all act like protecting pedophiles against search warrants is a virtue…

This makes absolutely no sense.

 

[VitalyT]

"It is absurd to claim that a platform, or its owner, are responsible for abuse of that platform."

What is absurd is that these companies are allowed to get away with it with no fear of punishment. The day of companies being without liability (by law) is long since over and the Congress needs to remove all protections. These companies should be given no more protection than any other company.

The congress would make anonymity illegal, if they could. It is individual privacy versus social security, it is not black-and-white, I wouldn't advocate any "should" action hastily.

 

[emmzo]

France has a private war with Russia in Africa and it's linked to its support for Ukraine. The guy that can give up all Russian Army communications is suddenly at their discretion, what do you think they will do? Russian whining is just pathetic, they would have done the same.

 

[Mihai S]

Before any more people get their knickers in a twist about this...
1. The chap won't be in jail during these proceedings.
2. French authorities have cited specific breaches of law, including alleged obstruction of justice, so there might be more than meets the eye. So, let's hold off on the false equivalents and whataboutisms until this is sorted out.
3. France is a rule-of-law country, so everything will work out in a legal, ethical manner.

 

[billc]

Just in case you are not being sarcastic, Exactly that kind of GTA happened recently with certain Kia and Hyundai vehicles, and Kia and Hyundai got blamed for it. Who knew that putting a USB slot under the steering wheel cover, that could start the car when you insert a USB key and turn it, as a mechanical switch without requiring any sort of authorization, that people would find the slot and stick stuff in it, turn it, then go for a joy-ride.

People are not angels. Its just common sense, IMO, that people will abuse anything when they figure that they can get away with it and figure out how to do it. That's why sites, including TS, have moderators.

Most likely a Muskovite. Sarcasm might be the lowest for of wit, but even that is beyond them.

 

[billc]

It's like arresting Verizon’s CEO because criminals use mobile phones.

The real reason is cel carriers let governments spy on *all* of their customers and the encrypted messaging services do not.

Come on Elon, that's a daft argument.

 

[emmzo]

Before any more people get their knickers in a twist about this...

1. The chap won't be in jail during these proceedings.
2. French authorities have cited specific breaches of law, including alleged obstruction of justice, so there might be more than meets the eye. So, let's hold off on the false equivalents and whataboutisms until this is sorted out.
3. France is a rule-of-law country, so everything will work out in a legal, ethical manner.

In one fell swoop, France could get access to 90% of Russian military comms and you think it's going to be "ethical"? They have a critical asset now, while fighting a shadow war with Russia, so, unless they're utterly dumb, they'll take advantage of it. If they'll have to create a new law, just to pressure this guy, they will.

 

[StrikerRocket]

Remember when the US banned export of the free PGP software created by Phil Zimmerman and how he was, for a time, under investigation for violating a rule that forbade export of "war armament"? Yes, PGP was considered a "war weapon" at the time, in the early 90s.
This was maybe the first time a software allowed to exchange information without any eavesdroppers listening in, and that was (still is?...) a problem.
The question is "do criminals have a right to privacy?"... that's a tough question to answer I think. Not to mention the fact that a lot of other questions come to mind in this: who is to be considered a criminal? When? By who? Does just talking about illegal activities make you a criminal? In the case of paedophilia, obviously, yes, of course, but what about the temptation for governments to spy on the population?
Very difficult... The only solution would be to cut off all ties with any means of digital communications, and that's a real challenge in our era. New tech, new problems...

 

[Mihai S]

In one fell swoop, France could get access to 90% of Russian military comms and you think it's going to be "ethical"? They have a critical asset now, while fighting a shadow war with Russia, so, unless they're utterly dumb, they'll take advantage of it. If they'll have to create a new law, just to pressure this guy, they will.

Nothing unethical about getting access to the Telegram data of Wagner and other Russian invading forces.

You make it sound as if France is partly at fault for this shadow war. This shadow war you're referring to has been happening for decades, with the Russian state being the aggressor and agitator. And France is but one of myriad countries maligned by Russian shadow aggression.

Edit: I had misunderstood your stance on France's role in the "shadow war" with Russia. Sorry.

 

[Thanthan]

This makes absolutely no sense.

I may not have been totally clear. That’s on me.

Telegram is under investigation for failing to comply with EU law, including providing user data when provided with a search warrant for a specific individual, as well as pulling specific content from its platform. This includes drug trades, child porn distribution, incitement of violence and racially / religiously motivated hatred, etc., etc.
My point was simply that the original post I responded to did not present an analogy to the facts of the case. Telegram is not an unwitting third party who has sold someone something they are using for crime. They are actively choosing to host and protect crime because crime represents a large part of their business.
The analogue that should have been made is that of a rented storage space. If the landlord is served a warrant, it is the landlords duty to comply, and open a unit. Similarly, when served a warrant (except for maybe if the warrant was blatantly impinging on human rights such as freedom of speech), Telegram should provide whatever user data it has. Maybe it can’t decrypt messages due to end to end encryption, that’s fine, but the data that it DOES have, it should turn over. If the authorities can use that data, that’s fine, if they can’t that’s also fine. Telegram would then have done its duty in ‘opening the storage unit’. Similarly, if Telegram is (or should legally be) aware that a human trafficking ring is operating out of one of its ‘units’ it should close the accounts, remove content, and contact relevant police authorities. Just as a landlord should, if they were made aware that a similar illegal activity was going on at one of their properties.
Telegram not only fails to allow relevant authorities access when they have the requisite warrants, but actively fights to protect terrorists, drug traders, human traffickers, and war criminals.

 

[emmzo]

Nothing unethical about getting access to the Telegram data of Wagner and other Russian invading forces.

You make it sound as if France is partly at fault for this shadow war. This shadow war you're referring to has been happening for decades, with the Russian state being the aggressor and agitator. And France is but one of myriad countries maligned by Russian shadow aggression.

First, you said the treatment of Durov will be "ethical", given France is a country of laws (unlike Russia?), then you redefine the word in relation to the subject. Ok. Second, you put words in my mouth, like acknowledging the shadow war means I blame France? Wtf? So, no and no! My claim is the treatment of Durov will not be "fair" or "ethical" and that's what any county would do in a war. Furthermore, I would support it and I won't let myself be blindsided by "freedom of speech" or any other idealistic views that are not relevant in this context.

 

[Mihai S]

First, you said the treatment of Durov will be "ethical", given France is a country of laws (unlike Russia?), then you redefine the word in relation to the subject. Ok. Second, you put words in my mouth, like acknowledging the shadow war means I blame France? Wtf? So, no and no! My claim is the treatment of Durov will not be "fair" or "ethical" and that's what any county would do in a war. Furthermore, I would support it and I won't let myself be blindsided by "freedom of speech" or any other idealistic views that are not relevant in this context.

First, yes, France is a rule-of-law country unlike Russia. (Though I hadn't said anything about Russia on this topic.) Russia may also be a country of laws, but it most definitely, unequivocally is not a rule-of-law country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law). If this fella didn't break French law, he won't go to prison. I'm not buying into the hysteria coming from some folks regarding this case. Telegram is in hot water in multiple EU countries, and in the EU itself, because of alleged noncompliance with the law. I genuinely believe that, in this case, the French judicial process will sort things out fairly.

Second, my bad. I had misunderstood what you were trying to convey, so I apologize.

 

[ccccn]

I bet there's more than meets the eye here. The indictment specifies how French laws—like them or not—were broken. Telegram claims it follows the law, yet French authorities seem to have documented instances where it broke the law.

According to Bloomberg (LINK)...


Let's see how this plays out.

PS: Here's another article that offers more details on the indictment itself: LINK

Bloomburg is what you linked to LOL. If you want the truth you will NEVER EVER get it from mainstream affiliated sources . The mainstream media are all 100% pro Macron .