"Recovering" from Covid-19

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cliffordcooley

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I honestly don't think covid 19 will kill anyone without a previous unhealthy and/or life-threatened condition. To simply document all these cases as strictly covid 19 is disrespectful to everyone.
 

scavengerspc

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I honestly don't think covid 19 will kill anyone without a previous unhealthy and/or life-threatened condition. To simply document all these cases as strictly covid 19 is disrespectful to everyone.
I don't know. It's like saying, yeah, the engine did blow up but to be fair, you already had a cracked windshield.

Seriously though, if a person had asthma that was under control for most of their lives and then dies in a week or two after getting COVID 19 it seems pretty clear the cause was the virus.
 

cliffordcooley

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I don't know. It's like saying, yeah, the engine did blow up but to be fair, you already had a cracked windshield.
False advertising comes to mind. And that strengthens my case. You can't lie on the condition of a vehicle or any other goods to be bartered.
 

scavengerspc

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False advertising comes to mind. And that strengthens my case. You can't lie on the condition of a vehicle or any other goods to be bartered.
Actually a breach of contract could apply.

But I like your fart jokes better. The next thing I said after that line was "Seriously though". I was joking. Click here and please refer to 1a.

Anyway, another underlying condition is obesity and, well this is America.
But people don't die of obesity specifically. They die of diabetes, heart disease, HPB, stroke, cancer, plus many more.
 
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Endymio

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Confirmed and unconfirmed are nearly equally divided between flu and covid 19.
First of all, that is categorically untrue. Unlike Covid today, in years past presumptive flu deaths were rarely tested for on a post-mortem basis. Secondly, even if true, the issue is irrelevant, because that absurd chart you posted compared confirmed flu deaths to confirmed and presumptive Covid deaths. Apples to oranges. Thirdly, the chart leaves off the bumper year of the H1N1 epidemic, where total flu deaths topped 70,000. And fourthly and most telling of all, Covid deaths are high this year because Covid is novel. Over the next 5-10 years, the flu will kill more people than Covid. And even this year, the flu is killing more children than Covid is.

70-80% of people who died of flu were unvaccinated. There is no vaccination for covid 19 yet.
The flu vaccine generally is only about 40-50% effective. A coronavirus vaccine will likely be on the same order.
 

Endymio

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health care workers...are really not amused at the suggestion that they are not doing their jobs correctly or are taking shortcuts.
Amused or not, it is simple truth. This is as true as it always is ... when a person -- especially an elderly person -- dies, determining an exact cause of death is often more art than science. If someone has a bullet hole in the skull or an exploded aorta, the cause is rather easy to determine, but an octogenarian is found dead in their bedroom, the exact cause of death is often little more than a guess.

Today, in the US at least, if that person tests post-mortem for Covid, no matter how low their viral load is and even if they lack all Covid sequela, the state will count them as a Covid death.
 
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Endymio

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New Zealand today reached 100 days without a new COVID-19 case. Anyone care to guess what they did?
Yes, they settled on a remote island a thousand miles from anywhere else. There are plenty of isolated islands who have seen no cases.

Oh, and they also didn't see their first case until AFTER China and the World Health Organization stopped lying to the world that Covid didn't spread human-to-human. By then, Europe and North America had already achieved community spread of the disease, which makes eradication orders of magnitude more difficult.
 

scavengerspc

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First of all, that is categorically untrue
Take it up with the CDC.

Over the next 5-10 years, the flu will kill more people than Covid
Only if we continue to fear the Aliens responsible for vaccines.

The flu vaccine generally is only about 40-50% effective
Take it up with the CDC.

Amused or not, it is simple truth
Says who, you? That is a horrible point of reference. In that paragraph you said nothing true.

Today, in the US at least, if that person tests post-mortem for Covid, no matter how low their viral load is and even if they lack all Covid sequela, the state will count them as a Covid death.
Complete bullshit. Literally no state does that and that is simply a lie.

Yes, they settled on a remote island a thousand miles from anywhere else. There are plenty of isolated islands who have seen no cases
Even if that held one drop of water, they had cases, but instead of spreading, they headed it off. Everything they did could easily be replicated.
"New Zealand's isolated location and relatively low population density certainly helped its efforts, but Prof Baker says that was only a minor benefit".

China and the World Health Organization stopped lying to the world that Covid didn't spread human-to-human
1. The WHO never said it didn't spread person to person. They said there was no evidence yet that it didn't.
2. In the statement, they made it clear that the source was China.
3. The statement was made well before any clue of a pandemic was possible.

An infamous WHO tweet saying there was 'no clear evidence' COVID-19 could spread between humans was posted for 'balance' to reflect findings from China
 
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scavengerspc

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Endymio

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1. The WHO never said it didn't spread person to person. They said there was no evidence yet that it didn't.
Semantic drivel. Since a negative cannot be disproven, when a scientific body says there is "no evidence" for a premise, they are saying you should not believe that premise. Further, the WHO did more than say there is no evidence for human-to-human transmission, they also said that other nations should not restrict travel to and from China, because China had managed to contain the epidemic. Also false. Still further, when the WHO sent that Tweet, Taiwan had already told the WHO they had clear evidence of human-to-human transmission. The WHO ignored them, under pressure from China.

The statement was made well before any clue of a pandemic was possible.
Again, false. Not only did Taiwan notify the WHO, but China had clear and convincing evidence of human-to-human transmission as early as December -- probably even earlier.
 

Endymio

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"The Flu Vaccine is only 40-50% effective". Take it up with the CDC.
A rather puerile response. Or did you fail to grasp the point? You were implying that a Covid vaccine is going to solve all our problems. It won't. Vaccine or no, every person on the planet is eventually going to be exposed to the disease. Just as they have with every other highly infectious respiratory virus known to mankind. We have never been able to eliminate any such virus -- the 1918 Spanish Flu strain, for example, is still circulating in the general population, for the last 100+ years. It kills few people annually now, only because nearly everyone is already exposed.

And that of course exposes the elephant in the room. Covid is only racking up large death counts this year because it is novel. Over the next several years, the flu will again be killing many more people than Covid. And once this year's hysteria is past, Covid will, like the flu, be something that most people don't even bother getting vaccinated for.
 

Endymio

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97000-children-tested-positive-for-covid-19...
Children (0-14) Covid Deaths since Feb 1: 45
Children (0-14) Common Flu Deaths since Feb 1: 105
Children (0-14) Pneumonia Deaths since Feb 1: 233

During the H1N1 epidemic, we lost over 8,000 children. That's 200 times as many dead. Why did you not call for school closings then?
 

Endymio

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Complete bullshit. Literally no state does that and that is simply a lie.
What makes your reply all the more amusing is that not only is it true, but your own link contains this very information. From the CDC FAQ link in the WaPo story you posted:

A probable case or death is defined as:


Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/faq-surveillance.html

Stop embarrassing yourself.
 

scavengerspc

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Again, false. Not only did Taiwan notify the WHO, but China had clear and convincing evidence of human-to-human
The statement was in early January. No definate.
During the H1N1 epidemic, we lost over 8,000 children. That's 200 times as many dead
OK, I will wait until those numbers before I think something should be done.
8K kids died? All in the US?
What makes your reply all the more amusing is that not only is it true, but your own link contains this very information. From the CDC FAQ link in the WaPo story you posted:

A probable case or death is defined as:


Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/faq-surveillance.html
Wait, did you not claim that people died of other causes were officially listed as COVID-19 deaths by healthcare officials and hospitals? The post above does not talk about that and that was what I was commenting on.
Stop embarrassing yourself
The truth is never embarrassing.

But I will say this right now. Whatever you post next I will just wait for everyone that is interested search your comments and mine and find out the info for themselves. This has turned into a mess and all I wanted to do with this thread was post info not easily found on the web and TV. Besides just talking with you gives you a certain amount of credibility you do not deserve. The old saying about the static is usually louder than the message kind of thing.

So the floor is yours. You have the last word on this subject here.
If you want to we can discuss it through PM or in a new thread in General. Let me know if you want to.
My posts from here will be on the path I was hoping for.
 
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Endymio

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Wait, did you not claim that people died of other causes were officially listed as COVID-19 deaths
What I said was quite clear. Your WaPo article attempted to compare proven, lab-tested flu deaths to probable, presumptive Covid deaths. These are deaths in which Covid was not confirmed, yet the death was still presumed to be due to Covid. That's not a valid comparison. It's a methodology which drastically understates flu deaths (which your own article admits), and overstates at least somewhat the actual Covid deaths (a fact your article fails to mention).

The post above does not talk about that
It certainly does. Read through the underlying methodology. Deaths are counted with no direct proof of Covid infection, based upon one of several other factors. As just one example, if an elderly person was found dead in their home, and known or presumed to have had close contact with an infected person, that meets the criteria for a Covid fatality.

The US has a far less restrictive set of criteria for counting what actually constitutes a Covid death. In Italy, for instance, most medical observers believe the actual death toll is roughly 300% higher than the official tally. It is interesting to note that even that official tally gives the nation a higher per-capita death rate than the US.

Note that Italy instituted strong, nationwide lockdowns early in the crisis.
 

scavengerspc

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Florida could easily be referred to as the third world of America in many ways but do they really have to make it so obvious? While they don't have an exclusive on COVID-iots Florida certainly seems to be their spiritual home. Or at least they share the title with Texas.

Florida sheriff bans deputies, visitors from wearing masks

" Sheriff Woods disputed the idea that masks are a consensus approach to battling the pandemic".
 
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Endymio

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While they don't have an exclusive on COVID-iots Florida certainly seems to be their spiritual home.
And yet they have less than 1/3 the deaths of New York State. Nothing beats the idiocy of forcing nursing homes to accept Covid-infected patients, placing them in the same room as those most vulnerable to the disease.

" Sheriff Woods disputed the idea that masks are a consensus approach to battling the pandemic".
Several studies have shown that cloth masks in a public setting are not only ineffective, but may actually increase the spread of the disease. Wearing a mask for no reason other than virtue signalling is a poor idea.
 

scavengerspc

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And yet they have less than 1/3 the deaths of New York State. Nothing beats the idiocy of forcing nursing homes to accept Covid-infected patients, placing them in the same room as those most vulnerable to the disease.
Talk to the Governor


Several studies have shown that cloth masks in a public setting are not only ineffective, but may actually increase the spread of the disease
No kidding. Gaiters may be the biggest problem.


Nothing beats the idiocy of forcing nursing homes to accept Covid-infected patients
Agreed. But they did it. And they are in Florida. And it was stupid. As I was saying.
 
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Endymio

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No kidding. Gaiters may be the biggest problem.
They are certainly the worst problem. But even plain cloth masks are likely to increase the spread of Covid. Unless you're wearing an N95 respirator -- and well trained on how to properly utilize it -- masks are, in general, counterproductive.

Agreed. But they did it. And they are in Florida. And it was stupid.
Eh? It was New York that ordered nursing homes to accept Covid patients, not Florida.
 

scavengerspc

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Eh? It was New York that ordered nursing homes to accept Covid patients, not Florida.
I knew that was coming. Florida did it too. Chris Wallace from fox talked to Gov Desantis about it on fox news Sunday in May or June. Maybe it was as a point about what happened in NY but Desantis didn't do anything. My home state of Pa. did it too.
Unless you're wearing an N95 respirator -- and well trained on how to properly utilize it -- masks are, in general, counterproductive.
They are critical in helping prevent spreading the virus.

 
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Endymio

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I knew that was coming. Florida did it too. Chris Wallace from fox talked to Gov Desantis about it,...
You misunderstood the interview. Only New York had a policy requiring nursing homes to accept Covid-infected patients.

[Masks] are critical in helping prevent spreading the virus.
Critical? Nonsense. In public settings, a wide amount of research has shown that cloth masks are ineffective, and are likely to actually increase the spread of viral diseases. If you doubt this, I will be happy to provide sources. As for your video clip and it's little $200 science experiment, there are at least a half-dozen problems with it and its conclusions. Leave real medical research to real medical researchers.
 

Endymio

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"New York dispatched more than 6,300 recovering coronavirus patients into vulnerable nursing homes during the height of the pandemic, officials said this week.

The transfers were made under a now-scrapped, highly criticized policy that barred nursing homes from refusing to take in COVID-19 patients — a directive from the Cuomo administration intending to free up hospital beds..."


Cuomo Sent 6,300...
 
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