Researchers warn that Windows 11 restrictions could send 240 million computers to landfills

[ddferrari]

This article is complete nonsense. Windows 11 doesn't have any hardware requirements. You can bypass them as part of the install. They are merely recommendations.

That said, there should be hard requirements. Old hardware has baked-in security vulnerabilities that can never be patched. 5 years is the max a device should be in use. Anybody that says otherwise clearly does not understand computers. Also, computers are entirely recyclable, so no...they won't end up in landfills.

"5 years is the max a device should be in use. Anybody that says otherwise clearly does not understand computers."

Wow... Are you sure about that?

 

[AnkitTiwari12]

Considering the debate around the environmental impact of Windows 11's hardware restrictions leading to potential e-waste, what proactive measures could software companies like Microsoft take to mitigate this issue while also maintaining security and innovation in their operating systems?

 

[ddferrari]

Considering the debate around the environmental impact of Windows 11's hardware restrictions leading to potential e-waste, what proactive measures could software companies like Microsoft take to mitigate this issue while also maintaining security and innovation in their operating systems?

That is a great question. Let's hope MS will lower Windows 11 requirements with new coding to prevent needless waste. I, for one, will stick with Windows 10 until they stop supporting it. Win 11 is just less intuitive to me... why bury regularly used features in sub-menus?

BTW, welcome to TECHSPOT. I see this is your very first post!

 

[captaincranky]

Considering the debate around the environmental impact of Windows 11's hardware restrictions leading to potential e-waste, what proactive measures could software companies like Microsoft take to mitigate this issue while also maintaining security and innovation in their operating systems?

Well OK then, welcome to Techspot.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, let's talk. Your post begs the question, "are you new just to Techspot, or computers in general"?

The reason I ask, is the fact that your post and its expectations come off as being incredibly naive.

M$ is advertising that it wants to be "carbon neutral", or some other ridiculous steaming load of horse manure. It's pure "virtue signaling", in an attempt to put a halo on Satya Nadella's head. When in reality, he's at least many times more ruthless, greedy, domineering, and lecherous, than Bill Gates ever was. In more pedestrian terms, he's a piece of sh!t. A turd who just got a billion dollar bonus for ramming Windows 10 down an unsuspecting public's throat, complete with unavoidable advertising for more of M$' product.

Here's the kicker. "researchers" have come to the conclusion that Win 11 could conceivably create as many as a quarter million obsolete devices, destined for your favorite landfill. WTF do you think M$ is trying to do? As you may or may not know, depending on its intended tasks, any run of the mill box should be good for at least ten years. At present, desktop PC sales are off, and have been off for quite some time. What can we do about that? That's easy, just render them obsolete.

What these crack "experts" have overlooked, is the fact that Windows 12 will be "AI centric", (I guess they haven't been paid thus far to enter that into their equation). But, give them time, (and more money), and they'll reach the same conclusion I have already, that closer to a half million machines could conceivably hit the landfill after Win 12 is released. Not to worry too much though, they'll likely be shipped to China, under the pretense of being "recycled". The reality will more than likely be, that they'll be dumped in a landfill over there. So, rest easy, it's a "NIMBY" end of the road solution..

M$' modus operandi for jamming consumers up with Win 10 was:
1: Make it "free"
2: Convince gamers that it was impossible to incorporate DX-12 into win 7 or 8.
3: Lastly, and most effectively, drive existing Windows OS users into histeria over security concerns. Which BTW is their primary fallback, and possibly most effective motivation / solution for marketing Win 11.

After all, you know you're computer is secure, when safety is baked right into the new hardware they're forcing people to buy.

Good chat.

 

[captaincranky]

That is a great question. Let's hope MS will lower Windows 11 requirements with new coding to prevent needless waste. I, for one, will stick with Windows 10 until they stop supporting it. Win 11 is just less intuitive to me... why bury regularly used features in sub-menus?

Seriously dude? I doubt that's anywhere near the top of their "honey do list".

After all, it took M$ well over a year to release a patch for a problem with file explorer:

Microsoft rolls out fix for Windows 11 File Explorer bug after 15-month wait

It was September 2022 when the 22H2 update for Windows 11 was released, bringing several changes and new tools to the operating system. One of these was...

www.techspot.com

 

[Ldldjr]

People who will 'land-fill' their Win10 machines have more dollars than sense! Unless one needs to run specialized software, that will only run on Windows, Linux is a very economical and effective alternative. And for those that can not envision giving up on Office/Excel/etc, Office 365 runs very nicely from a Linux machine. (I rely on Libreoffice, but have run Office 365 occasionally.)

I expect that Linux usage will increase as Win10 users find they are being forced to buy new machines for Windows 11, or switch to Linux - not that painful a move. Of course the USG will stick with WIn10 for another decade or two - with MS's blessings I am sure.

 

[opckieran]

People who will 'land-fill' their Win10 machines have more dollars than sense! Unless one needs to run specialized software, that will only run on Windows, Linux is a very economical and effective alternative. And for those that can not envision giving up on Office/Excel/etc, Office 365 runs very nicely from a Linux machine. (I rely on Libreoffice, but have run Office 365 occasionally.)

I expect that Linux usage will increase as Win10 users find they are being forced to buy new machines for Windows 11, or switch to Linux - not that painful a move. Of course the USG will stick with WIn10 for another decade or two - with MS's blessings I am sure.

But muh entertainment!! Like there isn’t software that won’t run on Windows anyways. You’d be surprised how many applications were developed on Linux, for Linux, THEN ported to Windows/Mac later. Most excuses are pure cope.

 

[yRaz]

But muh entertainment!! Like there isn’t software that won’t run on Windows anyways. You’d be surprised how many applications were developed on Linux, for Linux, THEN ported to Windows/Mac later. Most excuses are pure cope.

I think MS sees the writing on the wall. Google has priced chromebooks so that they are in every school in America. There is an entire generation of kids that is going to grow up using nothing but chromeOS and mobile operating systems. MS is turning into a cloud based logistics and AI company. Their desperation for exclusives on Xbox shows how much they're trying to get into a subscription model(with game pass) and not worry about 1 time sales.

Oddly enough, I think it's going to be Valve who is going to prop up Linux enough to dethrone MS as the desktop king.

 

[opckieran]

I think MS sees the writing on the wall. Google has priced chromebooks so that they are in every school in America. There is an entire generation of kids that is going to grow up using nothing but chromeOS and mobile operating systems. MS is turning into a cloud based logistics and AI company. Their desperation for exclusives on Xbox shows how much they're trying to get into a subscription model(with game pass) and not worry about 1 time sales.

Oddly enough, I think it's going to be Valve who is going to prop up Linux enough to dethrone MS as the desktop king.

Personally I think third party launchers like Steam are going to go the way of the dodo and make way for browser-based games. Not any time soon mind you… I’m just saying it’s pretty impressive what can be run in a browser these days! Honestly the whole OS can go too for all I care.

 

[gamerk2]

Sorry, you're way off on this. Windows 11 would run just fine on these computers if Microsoft changed a few configuration parameters. Plenty of enthusiasts are already running Windows 11 on those computers. It is Microsoft who is going out of their way to create an artificial end-of-useful-life scenario.

Back during the W7 era, everyone complained Microsoft wasn't taking security seriously, because it was Microsofts problem that people weren't updating their PCs, or enforcing good security practices.

So Microsoft did the only option available to them: If people won't follow best security practices, Microsoft will simply force it on them.

 

[gamerk2]

Personally I think third party launchers like Steam are going to go the way of the dodo and make way for browser-based games. Not any time soon mind you… I’m just saying it’s pretty impressive what can be run in a browser these days! Honestly the whole OS can go too for all I care.

The end goal would be an OS that does nothing but encapsulate programs in their own dedicated VMs, effectively abstracting out the entire concept of an OS. In that world, Windows would just be a library that various applications would call inside a VM that contained a "base" OS install for the program to utilize as part of its runtime.

 

[gamerk2]

You should see latest Firefox on an Intel Atom with 1GB memory, it can barely run and will saturate the memory to the point -I'd say this is a core feature- uBlock crashes and shows a blank menu, causing the websites to display a shitload of ads, which saturates the memory even more, until it crashes or the machine freezes.

That's due in large part to browsers using multi-PROCESSES to keep each tabs contents safe. Problem is, that means each tab is its own instance of the browser, which eats up memory fast.

 

[trparky]

That's due in large part to browsers using multi-PROCESSES to keep each tabs contents safe. Problem is, that means each tab is its own instance of the browser, which eats up memory fast.

And that right there is what lends to what I said earlier, older systems would come to a crawl with that kind of load be it a CPU or a RAM load. And no, using the page file should always be a last resort kind of thing. It's my belief that if your system has to touch the page file for anything but emergency situations, you need more system RAM.

This is why I generally believe that 32 GBs of RAM should be standard in any new system going forth. Too much stuff is memory hungry these days and you should give it as much RAM as you possibly can to operate.

 

[brucek]

So Microsoft did the only option available to them: If people won't follow best security practices, Microsoft will simply force it on them.

Refusing to distribute security patches you already have, for defects you made, is not any sort of best security practice.

 

[Gee Key]

Not sure what is the logic behind these so called researchers or do they know anything about the topic matter when their premise is that people will start throwing their computers away just because they cant update windows. WTH?

 

[loki1944]

Looking forward to the day when somebody renders Microsoft obsolete. They have been leaching on the entire computer industry for 30 years now, and their contribution has been dubious at best.

Someone would have to make an OS as easy to use as Windows; LINUX based OSs are not even in the same weight class when it comes to accessibility for the everyday average user. That is why Windows has dominance; ease of use and as far as big picture; unparalled compatibility.

 

[opckieran]

Someone would have to make an OS as easy to use as Windows; LINUX based OSs are not even in the same weight class when it comes to accessibility for the everyday average user. That is why Windows has dominance; ease of use and as far as big picture; unparalled compatibility.

Have you tried installing a stock copy of Win 11 and Linux lately? Here’s what that looks like after prepping a flash drive:

For Windows:
1. Locate nvme/raid drivers so the installer even recognizes your storage subsystem (which is insane to have to do for such a robust and compatible system).
2. During OOBE, either bypass Online Acct with some obscure command or be forced to use the online account.
3. During OOBE, wade through a bunch of privacy settings that you can turn off (but aren’t truly off).
4. Either uninstall most default installed drivers since they will almost certainly be “suboptimal”, or, if you didn’t have your system connected to the internet during setup, realize how many drivers are missing out of the box in the supposedly “compatible” Windows.
4. Install the rest of your desired programs/drivers through different means, which usually means perusing half a dozen websites for legit installers and real download buttons because there isn’t really a robust, centralized app manager in Windows yet (at least not compared to Linux, as I will explain below)

None of this screams “user friendly” to me.

Now, if you’re doing a Linux install…

1. Load Live environment so you can actually test the system before using it. Sounds user-friendly to me.
2. Walk through the installer without the need to locate storage subsystem drivers. Another win for ease-of-use.
3. Reboot into system and marvel at not being strong-armed into an online account during some OOBE, or having to activate your OS.
4. Update your system and install compatible applications from one single place (in most cases, Mint being a notable exception for separating installation and updating, but still retaining the ability to update from one place anyways). Including many popular applications like Chrome, Firefox, Discord, Steam, and more. Huh. Apps and updates in one place, using the included App Manager. That sounds much more streamlined than Windows.
5. Marvel at the fact that, save for very niche situations, the drivers you need are already included in the kernel. Which you would have noticed if any were missing during testing the live environment anyways. Even if you weren’t connected to the internet, those drivers were already there. Wow!

Sure, nV is still a bit of a headache in Linux. But even they have made great progress in terms of playing nicely with the kernel in recent years. In my experience, managing nV on Linux today means telling the app manager to ignore nvidia components, which is fairly straightforward in PacMan. Thankfully the majority of end users don’t have an nvidia GPU anyways.

So tell me, which of these experiences would be easier for your typical end-user? The Windows approach of grabbing installers and drivers from various places beforehand, then having to bypass OOBE requirements and then uninstall/reinstall drivers and other apps manually,

or the Linux experience of getting to test the system before installation, and then 99% of the drivers are included in the offline installer anyways, with no strong-arming an online account, no activation, and having privacy settings which actually respect the user, and a central app and updating location? Oh, and a track record of not moving system settings around every year or two?

You ought to try it yourself.

 

[bexwhitt]

Windows 11 doesn't need any more resources than windows 10, I understand why M$ want tpm 2.0 as a minimum requirement but excluding all those pcs without it is a bad move.

 

[takaozo]

Window 11 on a Pentium 4? no problem Rufus got you covered

No money for an licence? no problem use it without one (if you dont mind the watermark) or use online KMS. So why dispose of old PC?

 

[Thrackerzod]

Window 11 on a Pentium 4? no problem Rufus got you covered

No money for an licence? no problem use it without one (if you dont mind the watermark) or use online KMS. So why dispose of old PC?

I think you need more than Rufus to install Windows 10 and 11 on a Pentium 4. There are other roadblocks like the NX bit requirement that those CPUs don't support (Edit: Doing some searching it seems the final Pentium 4 HT models do support it). People have done it but it requires using things like booting from the Windows 10 preinstallation environment and some hackery, plus even if you do get it running it's going to be pretty much unusable for anything modern. Modern web browsing would be painful and forget watching Youtube videos.

Now a Core 2 Duo on the other hand should still be quite usable for anything basic I think.

 

[MisterSpock]

I have an Intel H67 board with a Pentium G630 that was given to me after upgrading a family PC to something a bit more modern. Being of the Sandy Bridge era, this means that it's well out of true hardware support from Windows, requiring a custom Win11 install to remove/disable software components of the OS that can't be used properly on such an old system. I'm glad Rufus makes it so easy to try this out.

I took it, shoved a used i7-2600 in it, found a used GTX 960 4GB, put 16GB of RAM into it, and dual-installed Windows XP and Debian 12 onto the system. I have the benefits of a extreme-level offline XP gaming machine (with its *massive* ~3.75GB RAM limit) and full, current Linux support for office use, including Vulkan for gaming and modernity. I could even disable Spectre/Meltdown/etc. using the mitigations=off kernel parameter, but I'd rather have the security of patches over raw performance on a network-connected OS.

Windows 11+ would prefer me to ditch this machine, along with my Core 2 Duo E8600 file server, my Atom N270 pihole, and even my currently-typing-on Haswell laptop, in order to enforce self-imposed hardware requirements for what they deem to be a 'current' machine. These are all running current release OSes. FYVM, Microsoft, but I will determine when one of my machines is no longer worthy of use.

 

[Brettdh]

Installed windows 11 on a laptop that it said wasn't supported. Just need to install it by booting it from an image.

 

[Guillermo Belli]

You should see latest Firefox on an Intel Atom with 1GB memory, it can barely run and will saturate the memory to the point -I'd say this is a core feature- uBlock crashes and shows a blank menu, causing the websites to display a shitload of ads, which saturates the memory even more, until it crashes or the machine freezes.


Prebuilts in my country come with 2GB memory and you have to pay $800+ for them, not counting the monitor and peripherals which are sold separately. Most of that hardware unironically belongs in a landfill at this point but, well, the few who can afford a computer have no other choice than being scammed by the only 2 "PC companies" that operate here.
I fix PCs and most of what I get are 1st gen Socket T machines with memory that's still expressed in MBs, there's a lot of super entry level (for the rest of the world) AM2 stuff, Semprons, some dual-core Athlons with crap Biostar or ECS mobos that have capacitor issues. Yet people use them, because there's no alternative. Imagine Chrome running on a 512MB computer, you can't even install it but if you could it'd take aeons to even start.

Sure, Linux would give a teeny tiny bit of "new life" to obsolete hardware like that, but users have no clue what Linux is, or what an operating system is, they'll ask me for "the new Windows" and I have to try and make them understand in layman terms that their 20 year old computer can't run "the new Windows", some will unironically get mad and say I'm trying to "rip them off" and that they've "done their research"..... yeah, the level of patience a technician needs is God-tier.

Devs and the /developed world/ should take notes on how us third world /underdeveloped/ people do literal techno-necromancy to keep hardware several decades old alive and somewhat working, talk about recycling and overextending the life of, well, everything. When your economy is in ruins since the 90s there's only so much you can do about upgrading productive hardware... I learned old school but I'm young, rather fix older reliable components like power supplies than installing new noname chinese junk that will fail after 2-3 months, stuff like that hurts your rep in the business as users think you're installing lower quality parts just for them to pay again, of course there's some -well, most I'd say- techies who do that on purpose, but not me... not that greedy, not in this for the money but because I like tinkering with what belongs in a museum in any other part of the world, be it computers or not.
Oh well there goes another wall of text. F.

Atom "Netbooks" were garbage even when new, it was torture to use one at any point in history. I remember someone asking me what he could do to make it faster, it already had 2GB RAM, so the only upgrade could be an SSD. The CPU is was so slow that the SSD made absolutely no difference, at least not one that could be perceived.

For really old computer with that little RAM any modern mainstream browser will be unusable, you'll have to look for niche browsers for old computers like Dillo.

There are also specialized Linux distros for old computers like Puppy Linux.

The $800 garbage-tier computer tale sounds like a fairy tale.

 

[ChristopherB]

Have you tried installing a stock copy of Win 11 and Linux lately? Here’s what that looks like after prepping a flash drive:

For Windows:
1. Locate nvme/raid drivers so the installer even recognizes your storage subsystem (which is insane to have to do for such a robust and compatible system).

I've installed Windows 11 on many different systems and NEVER had to locate NVMe/RAID drivers during install. Not a single time did the WIndows11 installer ask me for them during install.

 

[ChristopherB]

Linux is so easy to use these days. Installing mint and spinning up firefox takes literally under 2 minutes on newer hardware. For casual users there is no reason to run windows anymore. On my gaming rig I've yet to find something in my library that wont run on linux, but then again I dont play CoD, so.....

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I tried installing Mint on a relatively new PC(R9 5950X B2 stepping, x570 motherboard 32gB of RAM, 2TB NVMe SSD, RTX 3090) and encountered an error that nobody had a solution for. I received an error message during boot that prevented the OS from loading. The normal solution when you have that error message pop up is to go into the console and type a certain command. Apparently that error usually happens when the OS is already running. However, you can't do that if you can't even get into the OS. Upon searching and asking around multiple forums, reddit, facebook groups, and discord I found that I wasn't the only person to have that error and nobody had a solution for it. It wasn't limited to Mint either. It happened in other distros. Also, it wasn't due to defective hardware because I could get other distros to install.