Roadster will combine Tesla and SpaceX tech to create something that's "not even really...

You're the one that was saying AWD = moar traction = faster.
Correction. It matters for the vehicles you cited -- particular the Dodge Demon, which has a majority of its weight over the front tires, yet all torque being delivered to the rear tires. Clear now?

The debate was whether it can do sub 1s on any form of tire.
No, the debate was whether any vehicle could manage such acceleration, without "leaving all the tire on the tarmac".

Not the first time Musk says something and it is not accurate to prior information
Are you serious with this? Musk's original claim was 1.1s, back in 2021. Now that the vehicle is 3 years closer to production, he lowers the value by a mere 10%. We don't know yet if the new figure is more accurate than the old. I strongly suspect that it is.

Obvious math is obvious. You asserted tire size was not relevant for "road grip." Contact patch was only one factor, sidewall height and wrinkle was another critical dimension I mentioned that you conveniently ignored.
No, "sidewall height" is not a factor for road grip either. And the tire wrinkle effect exploited by dragsters is only a factor for vehicles with gear ratios. It's not going to be a benefit for an EV.
 
Well the Cybertruck is not even really a truck so I do believe the Roadster won’t even really be a car. It is not I would even really buy one, ever.
Really!
The standard for trucks in the US is based on weight. So, any vehicle heavy enough can be classified as a truck.

"Truck classifications are typically based upon the maximum loaded weight of the truck, typically using the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) and sometimes also the gross trailer weight rating (GTWR) and can vary among jurisdictions."

Why would anyone qoute Musk on anything? Whatever he says might as well be fiction until proven otherwise.
 
The standard for trucks in the US is based on weight. So, any vehicle heavy enough can be classified as a truck.

"Truck classifications are typically based upon the maximum loaded weight of the truck, typically using the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) and sometimes also the gross trailer weight rating (GTWR) and can vary among jurisdictions."

Why would anyone qoute Musk on anything? Whatever he says might as well be fiction until proven otherwise.
Perhaps the joke went over your head… it happens.
Also it so happens I work in automotive, I’m aware of the the Cybertruck’s classification as a truck.
 
I've had a boat with drive by wire for 12+ years now. It works fine and has never gone out. If they can do that with 15-year-old tech in a saltwater environment, then a system in a car should be a walk in the park.
Fly by wire is as old as the YF16 prototype (actually older). The technology itself is not a problem, its implementation is. Plugging a door should be as straightforward as it comes but we saw that being botched by Boeing.

Like many other OEMs, Tesla had their own share of safety issues, hopefully their implementation of drive by wire is without major ones.
 
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Fly by wire is as old as the YF16 prototype (actually older). The technology itself is not a problem, its implementation is. Plugging a door should be as straightforward as it comes but we saw that being botched by Boeing.

Like many other OEMs, Tesla had their own share of safety issues, hopefully their implementation of drive by wire is without major ones.
I'm aware of the origins of fly-by-wire. I've worked with Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed and other military aircraft manufactures over the years. Implementation is everything, to be sure, but suggesting that FBW is somehow inherently unreliable is misleading at best. I'm pretty sure those F-16 plots aren't worrying about the controls failing.
 
"The executive doubled down on a previously promised partnership with SpaceX, noting that the Roadster will have some rocket technology in it."

Just paint it Black and call it TR-Mobile...!
 
I'm aware of the origins of fly-by-wire. I've worked with Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed and other military aircraft manufactures over the years. Implementation is everything, to be sure, but suggesting that FBW is somehow inherently unreliable is misleading at best. I'm pretty sure those F-16 plots aren't worrying about the controls failing.
Lexus drivers sure didn’t worry about sudden acceleration until it happened. On the other hand my Cayenne never had any issues of this kind.
Technology is great but even the greatest tech can fail spectacularly if the implementation leaves something to be desired. I have close to 40 years worth engineering experience in industrial automation and testing in automotive. If you have a car, you have parts/ subassemblies tested and/ or assembled by some of the equipment designed by yours truly.
 
Lexus drivers sure didn’t worry about sudden acceleration until it happened.
You mean the sudden acceleration caused by drivers hitting the gas instead of the brake? That happens, yes. It certainly wasn't a failure of FBW.
 
You mean the sudden acceleration caused by drivers hitting the gas instead of the brake? That happens, yes. It certainly wasn't a failure of FBW.
Oy vey!
Toyota had recalls for what they called “sticky” accelerator pedals. 2.3 million vehicles in US, 1.8 in Europe and China.
So, no, I don’t mean driver error at all.
It so happens I’m an engineer with almost 40 years of experience in Automotive. If you have a car you have our parts in it.

So I won’t get into a drawn argument with you over Toyota’s accelerator, ABS and stability control issues. I lived thru them once and that was enough.
 
Oy vey!
Toyota had recalls for what they called “sticky” accelerator pedals. 2.3 million vehicles in US, 1.8 in Europe and China.
So, no, I don’t mean driver error at all.
Yes, driver error. An extremely lengthy and details investigation by NASA concluded driver error was the cause of *all* reported accidents from unintended acceleration. To save face, the NTSB eventually concluded that "misplaced floor mats" might slide out of place and entrap the accelerator pedal, and Toyota agreed to change slightly the shape of the pedal and mat. You can read about this shining example of mass hysteria here:



It so happens I’m an engineer with almost 40 years of experience in Automotive. If you have a car you have our parts in it.
Appeal to authority fallacy noted.
 
Yes, driver error. An extremely lengthy and details investigation by NASA concluded driver error was the cause of *all* reported accidents from unintended acceleration. To save face, the NTSB eventually concluded that "misplaced floor mats" might slide out of place and entrap the accelerator pedal, and Toyota agreed to change slightly the shape of the pedal and mat. You can read about this shining example of mass hysteria here:




Appeal to authority fallacy noted.
NASA study? You mean this research?
Dunning-Krugering much?
I keep forgetting you’re the big defender of the industry against the stupid consumers. Are they at least paying you ?
‘Nuff said, I have better things to do with my life.
 
Lexus drivers sure didn’t worry about sudden acceleration until it happened. On the other hand my Cayenne never had any issues of this kind.
Technology is great but even the greatest tech can fail spectacularly if the implementation leaves something to be desired. I have close to 40 years worth engineering experience in industrial automation and testing in automotive. If you have a car, you have parts/ subassemblies tested and/ or assembled by some of the equipment designed by yours truly.
My first job was designing the field test equipment for the M1 tank and Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I also designed industrial automation gear (SCADA) for power companies which went into hostile environments (remote power stations, hydroelectric dams etc.). Anything can fail especially when you're talking about cars which aren't always designed to the same standards or for the same environments as military vehicles.

But fly/drive by wire isn't new tech and it's pretty mature, in my opinion, so I wouldn't be worried about its reliability. Can it fail? Sure, and I'm sure we will hear about every failed Cybertruck, but for me it's not something I would try to avoid.
 
My first job was designing the field test equipment for the M1 tank and Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I also designed industrial automation gear (SCADA) for power companies which went into hostile environments (remote power stations, hydroelectric dams etc.). Anything can fail especially when you're talking about cars which aren't always designed to the same standards or for the same environments as military vehicles.

But fly/drive by wire isn't new tech and it's pretty mature, in my opinion, so I wouldn't be worried about its reliability. Can it fail? Sure, and I'm sure we will hear about every failed Cybertruck, but for me it's not something I would try to avoid.
100% agree. There are now standards governing drive by wire in which the aero industry also had a say in developing. The technology is fine and allows for implementation and optimization of functionality to a degree impossible on a “classic” system.

It is not technology’s fault when corners are cut for profit’s sake.
 
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NASA study? You mean this research?
Yes, the NASA study that found:

"NASA analysis and testing did not find evidence that malfunctions in the electronic throttle control caused large unintended accelerations, as described by some consumer reports..."

The National Academy of Sciences also did their own study, culminating in a 132-page report. To summarize:

"Last week, a report by the National Academies of Sciences put another nail in the coffin of this theory [of unintended acceleration], concluding that all the data available indicated that there was no electronic or software problem in Toyota vehicles and that NHTSA was justified in closing its investigation...."

Most conclusive of all was the exhaustive NHTSA investigation of every single vehicle involved in such a claim, only to find that in each and every case, the vehicles had no failed or defective parts, and functioned perfectly when examined by investigators.

Dunning-Krugering much?
I keep forgetting you’re the big defender of the industry against the stupid consumers.
Actually, I'm a defender of the truth. Why not try it some time? This ignorant incident of mass hysteria resulted in a waste of tens of millions of dollars of unnecessary investigations into a problem that existed only in the minds of 60-IQ lackwits. That waste of time, money, and resources didn't help consumers. It hurt them.
 
Yes, the NASA study that found:

"NASA analysis and testing did not find evidence that malfunctions in the electronic throttle control caused large unintended accelerations, as described by some consumer reports..."

The National Academy of Sciences also did their own study, culminating in a 132-page report. To summarize:

"Last week, a report by the National Academies of Sciences put another nail in the coffin of this theory [of unintended acceleration], concluding that all the data available indicated that there was no electronic or software problem in Toyota vehicles and that NHTSA was justified in closing its investigation...."

Most conclusive of all was the exhaustive NHTSA investigation of every single vehicle involved in such a claim, only to find that in each and every case, the vehicles had no failed or defective parts, and functioned perfectly when examined by investigators.


Actually, I'm a defender of the truth. Why not try it some time? This ignorant incident of mass hysteria resulted in a waste of tens of millions of dollars of unnecessary investigations into a problem that existed only in the minds of 60-IQ lackwits. That waste of time, money, and resources didn't help consumers. It hurt them.
Your truth defending does not include reading the actual materials you cite. Let's go to the original document, shall we?

"NHTSA does not have reason to believe that pedal misapplication is a cause of the relatively few, prolonged, high speed UA incidents that present the greatest safety risk."

Same document:
"NASA's study confirmed that there is a theoretical possibility that two faults could combine under very specific conditions to affect the ETC systems so as to create UA but did not find evidence this had occurred in the real world or that there are failure mechanisms that would combine to make this occurrence likely".

The report subsequently states that NASA actually found smaller faults which could cause small throttle openings but I'm not going to cite the whole thing. By the way NASA's original report from Jan 18th 2011 has 179 pages. Only a few of those pages namely the Executive Summary are available to the public at large as the rest contains proprietary data and require an NDA.

In true scientific fashion NASA concluded:
"Because proof that the ETCS-I caused the reported UAs was not found it does not mean it could not occur".

Any safety conscious engineer would indeed continue to consider all the aspects of this technology and of its implementation in search of things that could possibly have been missed.

And indeed NTHSA followed with the following document:

Functional Safety Assessment of a Generic Accelerator Control System With Electronic Throttle Control in Gasoline-Fueled Vehicles.

Here's the abstract:
"This report describes the research effort to assess the functional safety of accelerator control systems with electronic faults, such as errant electronic throttle control signals, following an industry process standard. This study focuses specifically on errant signals in motor vehicles powered by gasoline internal combustion engines. This study follows the concept phase process in the ISO 26262standard and applies a hazard and operability study, functional failure modes and effects analysis, and systems theoretic process analysis methods. In total, this study identifies 5 vehicle-level safety goals and 179 ACS/ETC system safety requirements (and output of the ISO 26262 and STPA processes). This study uses the results of the analysis to identify potential opportunities to improve the risk assessment approach in ISO 26262."

So, invective tossing aside, you're only cherry-picking what supports your argument and conveniently discard the rest. That looks more like defending a faith than defending the truth.

I have no doubt that you will provide a lengthy and dismissive reply to this, because, as a true evangelist of course you have to.

I lost enough time to your tr0ll1ng however. Don't expect me to answer to you anymore.
 
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BogdanR and Endymio, please discontinue your personal argument in this thread. If you wish to continue, please do so via PM. Thanks.
 
Perhaps the joke went over your head… it happens.
Also it so happens I work in automotive, I’m aware of the the Cybertruck’s classification as a truck.
"Well the Cybertruck is not even really a truck so I do believe the Roadster won’t even really be a car. It is not I would even really buy one, ever."

How could anyone tell your supposed joke from a poster who genuinely thinks the "Cybertruck" isn't actually a truck? The second part isn't even coherent.
 
"Well the Cybertruck is not even really a truck so I do believe the Roadster won’t even really be a car. It is not I would even really buy one, ever."

How could anyone tell your supposed joke from a poster who genuinely thinks the "Cybertruck" isn't actually a truck? The second part isn't even coherent.
You can always hit ignore instead of reading my incoherent drivel, right?
 
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