Roadster will combine Tesla and SpaceX tech to create something that's "not even really...

[Shawn Knight]

Bottom line: The second-gen Roadster certainly won't set any production speed records, but it could break all sorts of other records if Tesla is able to deliver on Elon Musk's latest promise.

Tesla showcased a prototype version of its gen two Roadster way back in 2017. At the time, the company said the vehicle would enter production in 2020 with a starting price of $200,000. We even got a sneak peak of the Roadster's insane performance in 2018 thanks to automotive enthusiast and comedian Jay Leno, but the production timetable ultimately proved wildly inaccurate.

The Covid-19 pandemic threw a monkey wrench into production operations around the globe, but here we sit in early 2024 and Tesla still has not launched the second-gen Roadster.

In his latest remarks on the subject, Musk now claims a new prototype will be unveiled by the end of this year before production starts in 2025. The executive doubled down on a previously promised partnership with SpaceX, noting that the Roadster will have some rocket technology in it.

The only way to make something cooler than the Cybertruck, Musk added, is to combine Tesla and SpaceX tech to create something that is not even really a car.

As for performance, "blistering" is about the only word to describe it. Musk claims the new Roadster will boast a 0-60 mph time of less than one second. Should it come to fruiting, it would be the quickest production vehicle by a significant margin. As of this writing, Tesla's website still lists a 0-60 mph time of 1.9 seconds, a top speed of 250+ mph, and a driving range of 620 miles.

When interviewer Don Lemon asked if the Roadster would have wings (perhaps half joking), Musk said it will not have big wings. Will it be able to fly? "Maybe," Musk teased.

Rather than a traditional steering wheel, the vehicle will use a drive-by-wire yoke system that Musk said is sort of like what you would find in an airplane.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/102320-roadster-combine-tesla-spacex-tech-create-something-not.html

 

[Plutoisaplanet]

Elon Musk's said that they plan to add cold gas thrusters to it and that it would be able to hover for several seconds. Since the thrusters would be directed, it could significantly help with steering and handling. But it does seem crazy complicated to put in a car They also said that it would be in a separate SpaceX package.

 

[Lew Zealand]

It's like a car. But with added hype!

 

[FF222]

It's like a car. But with added hype!

And with huge panel gaps and cheap materials

 

[scavengerspc]

And with huge panel gaps and cheap materials

Which doesn't really matter when the steering goes out.

 

[VitalyT]

Musk claims the new Roadster will boast a 0-60 mph time of less than one second

That's total BS. Under 2s - we can believe, but under 1s is unrealistic, it would leave all tire thread on the tarmac, without moving forward.

 

[Endymio]

"Should it come to fruiting, it would be the quickest production vehicle by a significant margin...."

I've seen pear and apple trees do this, but never an EV.

That's total BS. Under 2s - we can believe, but under 1s is unrealistic, it would leave all tire thread on the tarmac, without moving forward.

a 1s 0-60 time implies an acceleration of close to 3g's. Top-fuel dragsters can do 3.5 g's or better on off-the-line acceleration, so I think it's certainly well within the realm of tire performance.

 

[BogdanR]

Well the Cybertruck is not even really a truck so I do believe the Roadster won’t even really be a car. It is not I would even really buy one, ever.
Really!

 

[Vulcanproject]

I think it's certainly well within the realm of tire performance.

Racing tire performance yes. Road legal tires? No.

 

[Gomos]

Well, perfect then: it shall stay out of the roads of any functional country with normal laws.

 

[Thanthan]

Does it have four wheels and get stuck in traffic all the time? If yes, it’s a car.

 

[scavengerspc]

Racing tire performance yes. Road legal tires? No.

With all-wheel drive? They absolutely could take it and I doubt there would be
much tire loss at all.

 

[Endymio]

Racing tire performance yes. Road legal tires? No.

Eh? The primary difference is the tread composition -- for road tires, you generally give up a degree of traction in exchange for less rolling resistance (better fuel economy) and greater tire lifespan. But there's no legal mandate to do this. Road legal tires do need a tread pattern to allow for wet-weather conditions. However ( and despite what many people believe) racing "slicks" don't increase traction per se. The larger contact patch merely means the rubber is less likely to melt when *not* rolling (I.e. skidding, sliding, or overaccelerating).

 

[passingposeidon]

Racing tire performance yes. Road legal tires? No.

So? He didn't say "It will do 1-60 in under 1 second on road legal tyres".

 

[Vulcanproject]

Eh? The primary difference is the tread composition -- for road tires, you generally give up a degree of traction in exchange for less rolling resistance (better fuel economy) and greater tire lifespan. But there's no legal mandate to do this. Road legal tires do need a tread pattern to allow for wet-weather conditions. However ( and despite what many people believe) racing "slicks" don't increase traction per se. The larger contact patch merely means the rubber is less likely to melt when *not* rolling (I.e. skidding, sliding, or overaccelerating).

You compared Top Fuel dragster acceleration on racing tires to a road legal vehicle.

Top Fuel cars literally have their tires bolted to the rims, have incredibly reinforced sidewalls, run at ultra low pressures with very soft compounds. They're three feet high, one and a half feet wide, weigh 50 pounds and last a couple of miles at best.

Saying the primary difference is tread composition is a major understatement!

The USA's requirements for tire legality also fall behind most standards elsewhere in the world, for example in Europe there are stringent regulations where the car will no doubt be sold.

Regardless, a road legal car with that acceleration performance would absolutely be traction limited on road legal factory tires. If you want to say well you can just fit drag radials then no problem, but then it's not road legal and it's ultimately a modified car.

With all-wheel drive? They absolutely could take it and I doubt there would be
much tire loss at all.

There's an electric AWD vehicle called the Rimac Nevera which is road legal. The world's fastest accelerating production car and it can do 0-60 in 1.74s, road legal tyres, no surface prep. Very fast, but nowhere near sub 1s or elite drag machines.

It is unrealistic thinking you can nearly halve that without the most extreme racing modifications like the tires mentioned earlier.

The Demon 170 managed 1.66s. On a fully prepped strip with drag radials and rollout. To say these are critical conditionals is also an understatement. 2 seconds is more like it without those engineered advantages. There is a custom built, all carbon fibre, sub 1000kg prototype electric car called the McMurtry Spéirling. It can do it in 1.4s. It has absurd active downforce effective from stationary to the tune of 2000kg, racing slicks and ran on a racetrack surface.

Sub 1s for a production Tesla on road legal tires? Calm down.

You might want to think carefully about the notable differences between what Musk often claims and what actually happens in reality!

 

[Vulcanproject]

So? He didn't say "It will do 1-60 in under 1 second on road legal tyres".

I refer you to my comment where Musk's idle boasting largely does not meet reality. Particularly when drag racing is concerned.

Claiming the Cybertruck beats a base 911 over the quarter mile when towing a 911, when it was just over the 1/8 mile which is fair to say heavily traction limited. Amusing? Yes. Misleading? Yes.

It's typical Musk hype. He can fit rocket motors to it and do it in under sub 1s. So? You can do that to a wheelchair as well. At least recognise the hyperbole.

 

[Endymio]

Top Fuel cars literally have their tires bolted to the rims, have incredibly reinforced sidewalls, run at ultra low pressures with very soft compounds. They're three feet high, one and a half feet wide, weigh 50 pounds and last a couple of miles at best.

Saying the primary difference is tread composition is a major understatement!

All those differences -- with the exception of pressure and tread composition -- don't affect traction while rolling. The reinforcing is necessary to the radial acceleration experienced at speeds approaching 300mph. Nor is the large size of the tires helpful -- except in the corner case I mentioned above.

The USA's requirements for tire legality also fall behind most standards elsewhere in the world, for example in Europe there are stringent regulations where the car will no doubt be sold.

Nonsense. There are no "stringent regulations" in the EU that prevent high-grip, low-life tires. Nor are the "tyres" sold in Europe any safer than those in the US.

If you want to say well you can just fit drag radials then no problem, but then it's not road legal

Nowhere did Musk state the Roadster would hit a 1s 0-60 on road-legal tires, did he?

You might want to think carefully about the notable differences between what Musk often claims and what actually happens in reality!

His delivery schedule is often delayed, but he's generally pretty good on eventually delivering. People scoffed at Starlink's conception of microsatellite-based low-latency worldwide communications, of his Starship ultra-heavy rocket, building his own EV batteries in a "Gigafactory", a nationwide network of "Superchargers", and many other claims upon which he delivered.

His latest venture: the launch of the world's first private space station, in Aug 2025. Personally, I think that one will be delayed as well ... but it'll certainly happen.

 

[scavengerspc]

You might want to think carefully about the notable differences between what Musk often claims and what actually happens in reality!

Wait, what? I always do. And I don't remember saying I believe Musk.
Maybe you can help me find it.
What I said was I think the tires could handle it, and I made a crack about Tesla steering, which I have seen fail first hand. (It was owned by a woman on my staff and was her 3rd, and last Tesla).
If interested, she lemon lawed it and bought a Mach-E GT.

 

[Vulcanproject]

All those differences -- with the exception of pressure and tread composition -- don't affect traction while rolling. The reinforcing is necessary to the radial acceleration experienced at speeds approaching 300mph. Nor is the large size of the tires helpful -- except in the corner case I mentioned above.

You compared a road tire to a top fuel tire. They're very different in compound, construction, mounting, size and a host of other parameters. All because of the stresses the tire is required to endure at all stages and the traction it must deliver. The size of the tire IS also relevant for these factors. This isn't up for debate. It's obvious.

There are no "stringent regulations" in the EU that prevent high-grip, low-life tires. Nor are the "tyres" sold in Europe any safer than those in the US.

I didn't say high performance tires were prevented. Only the regulations for street legal tires in most of the EU are more stringent. More widespread and comprehensive vehicle checks required in most countries. You can go years without submitting a vehicle for tire checks in some U.S states, some don't check at all. Rather more liberal then, with whatever you might have fitted to your vehicle and use on the highway without anyone caring.

Nowhere did Musk state the Roadster would hit a 1s 0-60 on road-legal tires, did he?

He didn't say it wouldn't be on a rocket sled either. Point is if you say it can be done with massive modifications from street legal production vehicles then anything can do it. It's an idle boast. If the McMurtry Spéirling can't do it on racing slicks with two tonnes of down force, the same output as a Model S Plaid and half the mass then a production Tesla can't do it no matter what tires you fit.

Talk is cheap, especially from Musk.

People didn't scoff at realistic, achievable aims. People scoff at Musk's penchant for hyperbole and downright misrepresentation. Which there is plenty one can highlight.

1.9s is totally realistic, has already been done and is not groundbreaking. Sub 1s is not realistic unless the car delivers on the promised rocket thrusters. One assumes it might be best to get the Cybertruck's touted sub 10 micron tolerances sorted that Elon wanted first. I hope your calendar has a few decades on it.

 

[Endymio]

The Demon 170 managed 1.66s. On a fully prepped strip with drag radials and rollout.... There is a custom built, all carbon fibre, sub 1000kg prototype electric car called the McMurtry Spéirling. It can do it in 1.4s.

Sub 1s for a production Tesla on road legal tires? Calm down.

Oops! Both the Demon and the McMurtry are RWD vehicles. An AWD vehicle has double the road grip for purposes of acceleration. Actually, when compared to the Demon, which has far from a 50/50 weight distribution, an AWD Tesla Roadster would have *more* than double the road grip.

The Rimac EV is AWD ... but its using tires not designed for drag racing either.

 

[Endymio]

The size of the tire IS also relevant for these factors. This isn't up for debate. It's obvious.

Tire size is relevant for sturdiness and a few other factors. It does *not* affect road grip. If you like, I can detail the (very basic) physics behind this.

[Musk] didn't say it wouldn't be on a rocket sled either. Point is if you say it can be done with massive modifications from street legal production vehicles then anything can do it.

Putting racing tires on a car isn't exactly a "massive modification".

People didn't scoff at realistic, achievable aims. People scoff at Musk's penchant for hyperbole and downright misrepresentation. Which there is plenty one can highlight.

Yet you have failed to do so. Even your (false) claim of the 1/4 mile Cybertruck run. Musk showed a Cybertruck, while towing a 911 beating a 911 in a drag race, then finished the video by flashing stats on the Cybertruck, including its 0-60 and quarter-mile stats. This led some reporters to conclude the race was a quarter-mile, but Musk never said that -- and in fact both Musk and a Tesla engineer interviewed right after the event clarified that the race was limited, due to the tow trailer being limited to a top speed of 80mph.

 

[Vulcanproject]

Oops! Both the Demon and the McMurtry are RWD vehicles. An AWD vehicle has double the road grip for purposes of acceleration. Actually, when compared to the Demon, which has far from a 50/50 weight distribution, an AWD Tesla Roadster would have *more* than double the road grip.

A Top Fuel dragster is rear wheel drive. Making them four wheel drive or the McMurtry for that matter won't make them enormously faster accelerating like you imagine. Their weight is already distributed for maximum traction.

The reason why the McMurtry is so fast is because it has less than 1000kg of mass to accelerate with another 2000kg on top of that pressing the tyres down. Better than 1 bhp per kilogram. It still fails to reach the target by 400 milliseconds. A huge relative amount. 30 percent improvement required.

You're going to end up with a Roadster that has inferior power to weight, less initial tractive force and inferior tyres.

Those numbers simply don't add up to 30 percent faster without the Looney Tunes rocket boosters.

 

[Vulcanproject]

Tire size is relevant for sturdiness and a few other factors. It does *not* affect road grip. If you like, I can detail the (very basic) physics behind this.

Sidewall wrinkle and contact patch are a critical aspect of top fuel tires. Size matters, no matter what your woman tells you.

Putting racing tires on a car isn't exactly a "massive modification".

The point was even that is not enough with the McMurtry. You're not reading.

This led some reporters to conclude the race was a quarter-mile, but Musk never said that

Musk said quarter mile. It came out of his mouth. You're dead wrong. That's why it's valid to challenge what Musk says, because what he says is often misspoken or just nonsense anyway.

That's enough for today. Take the hyperloop home, the fully self driving cybertruck pulling the 911 faster over a quarter mile stopped working because the solar roof tiles to charge it didn't get installed.

 

[Endymio]

A Top Fuel dragster is rear wheel drive.

Yes, because the majority of the weight of that dragster is directly over the rear wheels. What's your point? Even with just two active tires, those dragsters do 0-60 in far less than 1 second, which demonstrates beyond any doubt that tire grip isn't the limiting factor.

You're going to end up with a Roadster that has inferior power to weight...

You've lost the thread of the argument entirely. The debate is over tire grip only, not the Roadster's power to weight ratio.

Furthermore, I just happened to look up Musk's initial claim. In his tweet, he clearly specifies that a SpaceX "rocket thruster option" will be required to hit the 1s benchmark. Without it, it apparently hits 1.9secs:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1395474465794838528

Sidewall wrinkle and contact patch are a critical aspect of top fuel tires. Size matters, no matter what your woman tells you.

Snark doesn't substitute for facts, son. If you double the size of the contact patch, you halve the gravitational normal force per unit area, meaning the total dynamic frictional force remains constant. I could explain the *alternative* reasons larger contact patches are beneficial ... but it's rather clear you have no interest in learning.

 

[Vulcanproject]

Yes, because the majority of the weight of that dragster is directly over the rear wheels. What's your point? Even with just two active tires, those dragsters do 0-60 in far less than 1 second, which demonstrates beyond any doubt that tire grip isn't the limiting factor.

You're the one that was saying AWD = moar traction = faster. I was the one saying that doesn't matter in those specific instances, because various reasons. One being top fuel drag tires and weight distribution are so wildly different to road applications. You're confused.

You've lost the thread of the argument entirely. The debate is over tire grip only, not the Roadster's power to weight ratio.

The debate was whether it can do sub 1s on any form of tire. I said it couldn't with those power to weight specs compared to the McMurtry. I said it needs the rocket boosters to even stand a chance.

It seems you're now only just aware of the rocket booster claims which I repeatedly mentioned and also mocked along with many other promises never delivered. You only realize this part of the claim NOW? Even with the Looney Tunes the claim is different to what he said, not sub 1s.

Not the first time Musk says something and it is not accurate to prior information, but seized upon by people such as yourself as gospel instead of exercising appropriate skepticism. Getting the drift yet?

Snark doesn't substitute for facts, son. If you double the size of the contact patch, you halve the gravitational normal force per unit area, meaning the total dynamic frictional force remains constant. I could explain the *alternative* reasons larger contact patches are beneficial ... but it's rather clear you have no interest in learning.

Obvious math is obvious. You asserted tire size was not relevant for "road grip." Contact patch was only one factor, sidewall height and wrinkle was another critical dimension I mentioned that you conveniently ignored.

It's very safe to say size DOES actually matter, the snark was well warranted as was the eye rolling with all the backtracking you are now employing. I'm done, get back to me when Musk redefines common measurements to better suit both your claims.