So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[FusilliJerry82]

So you're going to have 6 cards with 5 as "backups" for one computer? Why?

And hrlow2, its not so much about whether PCIe is better than PCI (it is) but this is a bit off the original intent. Like has been said, the topic is generally for people who want to play WOW or The Sims, not the absolute cutting edge in PC games. Plus the fact that in this particular situation, putting any 8600GT above a 4860, be it PCIe, PCI or somehow ISA for god sake is a bad move.

 

[LinkedKube]

I like this thread, I just dont want the thought of "10-21" fps to be seen as playable, most people posting here are playing low hardware demanding games like Sims, really old flight simulator(for w/e reason) and a list of older games. These "average" pc gamers dont run fraps, or recording software in which they can see fps. So you say oh yeah, 10-24 fps is playable, I enjoy it. They think "oh, I'll think I'll do that." A week later we have an angry member because his character is running around the screen randomly having static seizures while bleeding out his ears. In which you'd probably bleed out of yours trying to adjust and read just your eyes with the constant jumping around.

 

[LinkedKube]

Crysis.

Why don't you pci express x16 gamers post your FPS in this game.

http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=439429&tstart=0

truthfully now.

Read this then talk about how bad PCI is.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/100973-25-crysis-controls

This post and/or the link you put in about pci e cards doesnt make pci cards any better! We weren't shunnin pci cards, they're good for older games and basic computing .

The thread needed to be grounded, as it went from help with Sims and older games to Crysis and games that pci wasnt made for at all.

 

[Tha General]

I like this thread, I just dont want the thought of "10-21" fps to be seen as playable, most people posting here are playing low hardware demanding games like Sims, really old flight simulator(for w/e reason) and a list of older games. These "average" pc gamers dont run fraps, or recording software in which they can see fps. So you say oh yeah, 10-24 fps is playable, I enjoy it. They think "oh, I'll think I'll do that." A week later we have an angry member because his character is running around the screen randomly having static seizures while bleeding out his ears. In which you'd probably bleed out of yours trying to adjust and read just your eyes with the constant jumping around.

So you're going to have 6 cards with 5 as "backups" for one computer? Why?

No, you are aware that i said i was buying a secondary computer soon, a gateway intel pentium dual core 2.4ghz stock, or a pentium 4 2.8 ghz. For my secondary computer, i will have the 8600GT as my main card, and buy the 4670 1gb for backup as a radeon card.

The 8400GS i am buying for this rig. Thats pretty much the last PCI card i will buy for my pentium III. So i will the following:

Intel Pentium 3/600mhz

BFG 6200/BFG or / Sparkle or 8400GS as Geforce cards.
HIS X1550/Visiontek 2400HD as Radeon cards

Secondary rig, Gateway Intel Pentium Dual Core 2.4ghz or Intel Pentium 4 2.4GHZ

Albatron 8500GT or 8600GT PCI card as my main geforce card, and the Diamond( my favorite GPU brand btw ) 1GB 4670.

As for future pci card use, well as i said the 8400GS will be my last PCI card for this rig my pentium III. As for my secondary rig, who knows. I might upgrade and buy the 9 series PCI card if i find one.

Also to note, AMD is suppose to be releasing the 3450 PCI with higher core and memory clock, they called it the PCI solution in 3450 form. Whenever that comes out, i will get rid of the 2400HD and replace that with the 3450 and use the 3450 with my pentium III. So i will be gaming with PCI forever, and when PCI dies, i will still use PCI, but clearly move on to PCIE, with the continue use of the 4670.

Thats pretty much, cheers

 

[LinkedKube]

AMD's solution will be a joke, higher clock rates dont mean much if you still lack Gflops, as you learned in a post about the 3850. Clock rates dont always make the card.


You're looking forward to a card that will be 70% slower than the average card, does that make sense?

 

[PCIGamer]

PCI Cards have high resale value at least. You could probably get 70-80% back on what you spent. In some cases you could make more.

Compared to a 3 year old PCI-E card that resells for next to nothing.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

The 8600GT is better than the 3450.

And why do you need to have backup cards for every machine? Normally people buy the replacement when they need it.

Again, it makes no sense to put an 8600GT in front of a 4670. Logically, the best thing to do would be use the 8600GT in the P3 and run the 4670 in the new computer.

Actually, you may want to get a 9600GSO instead of a 4670 and use the 8600GT as a Physx card. It would serve that purpose well; you'd have much better overall performance and your beloved PCI card would be playing an important role.

Also, a 2.4Ghz P4 isn't equal or even remotely close to the performance of a 2.4Ghz Pentium Dual-Core. Plus I don't even think they made a 2.4 Ghz P4 in LGA 775. If you were to for some reason buy into a P4, to go below 3Ghz or so would be buying into antiquity.

 

[LinkedKube]

PCI Cards have high resale value at least. You could probably get 70-80% back on what you spent. In some cases you could make more.

Compared to a 3 year old PCI-E card that resells for next to nothing.

who was mentioning prices and resale value?

 

[electromagnetic]

Another thing is a PCI and PCI express are not being compared for gaming on a low end systems.

Most games are made for high spec machines full of glitches just upgrade your PC to fix it. Fine so maybe PCI only is good enough for old games then. So maybe 3D analyze could help people with integrated graphics. You can get them to run on that. Just do Performance force software Transform and lighting. To run I got it to run.

 

[Tha General]

I have no idea when i am going to buy my secondary computer, i am just not interested in buying one at the moment. I have 2 in mind tho, a Pentium 4 in general. or a Intel Dual core. But as i said, i am not really interested in buying one. My Pentium III is performing so great now, i am just going to go one step up and buy a p4 most likely.

But whatever type of computer i buy next and whenever i do it, as my secondary rig, its going to be a Intel Pentium by Gateway. And i plan to use both pcie and pci cards on it. Thats the pretty much the bottom line on that issue.

Now FusilliJerry82 . The reason i have to keep so many cards. Well i am not sure if you are aware of this, but some games don't want good with some cards. I have on old game called Requiem: Avenging Angel, i get 100-250fps in the game, but only with my 6200, with my 2400HD, i get up to 260, however it drops to 4-7 when looking at everything in front of me. ATI drivers are worse then what they should be from the past, only because of opengl extensions. ATI drivers are good now, but they lack opengl when compared to nvidia uses opengl superior. So some older games, or most of them work better using geforce.
So its wise to keep alot of video cards around, so whatever game that does work good, you will have spare to use it.

Anyway, you mention something about a 9800?
Those cards require a power connector right? Because if you must know, i don't use video cards , that require a power connector, i don't want none of my pcie cards when i start to use them to share power with my PSU. I have my reasons one, but someone over at futuremark already gave me a list of video cards that don't required a connector, thats why the 4670 i like alot.

 

[Tha General]

Another thing is a PCI and PCI express are not being compared for gaming on a low end systems.

Most games are made for high spec machines full of glitches just upgrade your PC to fix it. Fine so maybe PCI only is good enough for old games then. So maybe 3D analyze could help people with integrated graphics. You can get them to run on that. Just do Performance force software Transform and lighting. To run I got it to run.

I use that program once, its ok. I use the program when i was using a radeon 7000, thats it. But you have the 6200, i don't see why you use it. You don't have too. You have full hardware transform and lighting.

You having trouble with a game?

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

Allowing a card to share power with your PSU will not kill your PSU if it can handle the load. But the HD 4670 is a smacking good card for the price and the fact that it delivers such great performance without requiring extra power is just icing on the cake.

 

[electromagnetic]

I get slowdown in Bioshock, I got the Tomb raider Underworld side show those games need HDR.

Not got any trouble in games, Rage_3K_Moiz posted his Bioshock fps and he's running a 64bit version of vista and running 2 Radeon cards so does not compare to PCI.

Tha General get a Quad core CPU. That's better than Intel pentium 4.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

Tha General get a Quad core CPU. That's better than Intel pentium 4.

Understatement of the year.

I defy you to even find a new pre-built PC that comes with a P4. The Pentium D is just as outdated. It's mostly because THERE'S NO REASON TO SELL THEM. THERE'S BETTER CPU'S FOR THE SAME MONEY TO PUT IN LOW-END PC's. You should be building your own anyway.

I don't even understand your fear of making the video "share power" with the PSU. Where do you think the power comes from that is coming through the expansion slot? Magic? Power is going directly from the PSU through an integrated circuit on the motherboard to the video card. All the power connector does is cut out the middle-man. It's true that most power supplies that come in pre-built PC's can't support high-end cards, but any new PC should run a 9600GSO (not a 9800; READ what people write) without issue.

I seriously am ready to give up on you. You're stubborn and illogical, and what you try to do with computers is akin to spending $1000 to find and use a black and white TV in new condition instead of simply walking out of a store with a new one for a fraction of the cost, simply because you seem to need to prove that black and white is fine enough or even as far as saying its "good". Oh, but wait, I'm going to get a "new" TV, but I'm only going to move up to a color TV from 1982 for the same price as a new one. But its better than what I have so I'm somehow justified. It should be 3-4 times as good!

 

[PCIGamer]

Why do you even care? He is happy with his system, you are with yours. Lets just get on with things.

 

[hrlow2]

Why should someone always have to conform with someone elses ideals? If he is satisfied(as I am with my P4) then maybe people should back off and leave him alone.
I, myself, have no overwhelming desire to have the " Killer" machine everybody thinks I should buy. Don't need dual or quad core CPUs. Don't have an ego problem that I'm trying to make up for.( Or is there something else that you're trying to compensate for?)

 

[FusilliJerry82]

( Or is there something else that you're trying to compensate for?)

Go screw, [expletive].

DO ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY READ OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS?

The danger here is the possibility that someone stumbling onto this thread may think that a computer like his is sufficient for the type of gaming he purports it to be, when in the general computing world, it isn't. I couldn't care less if he's trying to get Crysis to work on an IBM PC XT with a Hercules card.

I said a P4 is not logically or fiscally smart to buy AT THIS POINT. If you already have one, fine, stick with it. But for the same price you can get a better processor and a better video card. You can't even buy a pre-built PC with a P4 anymore. To buy a new computer that's already 4-5 years out of date is STUPID. Stop trying to make yourselves out to be the greasers on the other side of the tracks trying to make do with what they can, while the rich kids make fun of them. You're going out of your way to spend more money for a lesser product.

Old enough to know better...

Apparently not.

 

[hrlow2]

And if you were able to read, this thread is about PCI cards. If your machine doesn't use PCI, then maybe you don't need to be posting here in this thread.

 

[hrlow2]

And by the way, it appears that I struck a nerve there.

 

[LinkedKube]

And if you were able to read, this thread is about PCI cards. If your machine doesn't use PCI, then maybe you don't need to be posting here in this thread.

Its common that the people with the pci e cards know more, in most situations, NOT ALL, about pci cards than some of the pci users. We dont shun your p4's and pci cards. And I'll repeat as its been said above. "If you'd read the other post." I myself am trying to ground this thread. If you're posting in this thread and you have "Any pci," card, the words Crysis and Good shouldnt even be used here. It confuses people, If you're going to post about people with "pci e" cards and how we shouldnt post here, make sure you go back and read where all this started.

 

[Tha General]

Allowing a card to share power with your PSU will not kill your PSU if it can handle the load. But the HD 4670 is a smacking good card for the price and the fact that it delivers such great performance without requiring extra power is just icing on the cake.

Why should someone always have to conform with someone elses ideals? If he is satisfied(as I am with my P4) then maybe people should back off and leave him alone.
I, myself, have no overwhelming desire to have the " Killer" machine everybody thinks I should buy. Don't need dual or quad core CPUs. Don't have an ego problem that I'm trying to make up for.( Or is there something else that you're trying to compensate for?)

I am just not into the whole connecting your psu with the card. I guess i am use to it, because i have only use pci cards my whole life. I just don't feel like doing it, thats all. My 90watts Is working wonderful, i wouldn't want to directly share it with my 2400HD or 6200 which requires 250 and 270. So i just want to keep everything cozy with my new rig once i get it. About the p4, dual core, quad core whatever rig, i really have no idea what i am getting , but a p4 is on my mind for reasons. Whatever i do intend to buy, well thats me.

Anywho, really no point in discussing what someone should or should'nt buy or should or should't use, everyone enjoy what you have, and i will do the same

I get slowdown in Bioshock, I got the Tomb raider Underworld side show those games need HDR.

Do you mind posting your GPU-Z, i want to see something.
And btw, i played Bioshock once with my 6200, only because i was using XP at that time, and my system was being bottleneck which i didn't know at that time. But i wouldn't even try to bioshock with a 6200, unless your rig is hgh end.

About TRU, well i never played it, however i am pretty sure i can run the game with ease with my 6200.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

And by the way, it appears that I struck a nerve there.

By being a complete douche for no reason in a thread about computing, yes.

I am just not into the whole connecting your psu with the card. I guess i am use to it, because i have only use pci cards my whole life. I just don't feel like doing it, thats all. My 90watts Is working wonderful, i wouldn't want to directly share it with my 2400HD or 6200 which requires 250 and 270.

Did you not read my post? Your PSU is powering everything in your computer. It doesn't matter at all whether its going directly to the card or through the motherboard. Especially since a PSU of that age is running on single voltage rails, so all power for each voltage is being pulled evenly. As a matter of fact, connecting it directly would do nothing but increase the efficiency of that power delivery. How are you even running a 90W PSU? You should be at least in the 1xxW range for a PIII that you bought somewhere. Not that I'm saying 90W isn't sufficient (it's on the cusp) it's just that I've never encountered any PC that relatively new with such a low-wattage PSU. Even 286's from the late 80s have ~150Wish PSUs. Want a PSU that is both cheap, powerful and solid? This model is one of the best ones I've found for when you want to get when you want more power on the cheap without buying crap that will die in a week, and you won't have to worry about what you put on it. It's the price of PSU's with 1/3 the wattage with fair quality that seems to last. 2 friends of mine have them running fairly high-end PCs for more than a year and a half.

Also, what reasons do you have to get a P4? Hyperthreading?

 

[Tha General]

Your PSU is powering everything in your computer. It doesn't matter at all whether its going directly to the card or through the motherboard. Especially since a PSU of that age is running on single voltage rails, so all power for each voltage is being pulled evenly. As a matter of fact, connecting it directly would do nothing but increase the efficiency of that power delivery. How are you even running a 90W PSU?

My PSU has been running since actually 2000. I take it apart each year and clean it, blows out cool air all the time, when playing games, it starts to blow out very cool air. The PSU never gets warm too. 90watts is good enough So far its 2009 and never gave me any issues.

But for my secondary rig when i buy it, i would just rather keep it simple and buy only PCIe cards that does not require a connector, thats all.

Want a PSU that is both cheap, powerful and solid? This model is one of the best ones I've found for when you want to get when you want more power on the cheap without buying crap that will die in a week, and you won't have to worry about what you put on it. It's the price of PSU's with 1/3 the wattage with fair quality that seems to last. 2 friends of mine have them running fairly high-end PCs for more than a year and a half.

I plan to buy 2 90watts PSU backups when i get the chance, from the same brand over at this certain gateway website. However, that PSU which you just link will not work.

Don't know if you know this already, but i have 2 spare 350watts PSU in my house, brand new. Saving them for my new rig, however i wanted to use one for this computer, but i can't because of the 4 pin connector. My motherboard is a 810 chip/82810, it does not have the 4 pin connector. So i need a small PSU, that fixes correctly into my tower, not to mention one that does not have a 4pin connector.
This is the model of my PSU

http://www.skyline-eng.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5164

I plan to buy 2 more as backups if i can not find the same size one with higher watts. But 90watts is just fine

HERE is the list if you can find me something
http://www.skyline-eng.com/index.cf...ategory_id=5337&CFID=4155541&CFTOKEN=93832135

Also, what reasons do you have to get a P4? Hyper threading?

I don't even know what hyper threading is, but i do want SSE2 extensions. And the other stuff i seen in p4's. But i am maybe thinking about going p4, because i want to go one step from a Pentium III. My p3 works so unbelievable, why not just go up a step and use a p4. Old hardware, no big deal, they get the job done. I am playing tomb Raider Legend, at almost max settings, with next generation effects, reflections, 1280x1024, full screen effects, no AA, and i get 19-40fps. And that is with my 2400HD, no telling how good TR games work with my 6200, which plays them about 40% better. So my p3 is working great with games no, that i am bottleneck free.

So using a p4 will be amazing. So i don't know what i am going to get, i will cross the bridge when i go shopping.

peace

 

[electromagnetic]

I am just not into the whole connecting your psu with the card. I guess i am use to it, because i have only use pci cards my whole life. I just don't feel like doing it, thats all. My 90watts Is working wonderful, i wouldn't want to directly share it with my 2400HD or 6200 which requires 250 and 270. So i just want to keep everything cozy with my new rig once i get it. About the p4, dual core, quad core whatever rig, i really have no idea what i am getting , but a p4 is on my mind for reasons. Whatever i do intend to buy, well thats me.

Anywho, really no point in discussing what someone should or should'nt buy or should or should't use, everyone enjoy what you have, and i will do the same


Do you mind posting your GPU-Z, i want to see something.
And btw, i played Bioshock once with my 6200, only because i was using XP at that time, and my system was being bottleneck which i didn't know at that time. But i wouldn't even try to bioshock with a 6200, unless your rig is hgh end.

About TRU, well i never played it, however i am pretty sure i can run the game with ease with my 6200.

http://gpuz.techpowerup.com/09/01/10/7ef.png



Here's my GPU-Z post Tha General.

 

[Tha General]

http://gpuz.techpowerup.com/09/01/10/7ef.png
Here's my GPU-Z post Tha General.

hmmmm, do you still have that TR Legend install, if so, do me a fav. Download and install the 81.98 drivers, and play the game at 1280x1024 with shadows off, water reflections off, reflections on, next generation effects on, no AA and tell me how your performance.

Maybe its different on XP, but using windows 2000 which i am using, whenever i use the 6200, the BFG version, i use 81.98 and the performance triples.
In the GPU-Z this is what is suppose to say for correct stats.

Bandwidth = 4.3
Core at 300
300

Memory at 266
266.

I haven't played with the 6200 since my computer is bottleneck free now(when i do, the performance should have triple in games). But from past experience using XP, i notice there is a slight bottleneck when the bandwidth increases to 8.5, from 4.3. I haven't tested out alot of games, and half of the games will not work good as for performance when the bandwidth is at 8.5. One example, this game called the thing:
It will be choppy as hell with 8.5, depending on what driver you are using, because i did notice using the 175.80 at 8.5 bandwidth the game work just fine, but using say the 177.92 it didn't perform as good, but still going back to the older 81.98 the thing game, work beautiful.

Keep in mind, don't know if this will work on your rig, because your computer is pretty great IMO, but i would try out the older drivers, the 81.98 , they seem to work better then the new ones.

Anyways, if you do decide to buy the 2400HD card, when playing Tomb Raider games, in the sound area, always turn hardware sound acceleration off. Because if you don't there is static in the background it kinda slows down a bit.
Even tho my 6200 runs the game slightly better, it doesn't slow down as much when looking at everything in front of you. Seems like the 6200 can render everything faster or something.

But the 2400HD can run it pretty good at 1280x1024, with Fullscreen Effects on, next generation effects on, water reflections off, reflections on, i get about 19-55fps.