SpaceX intentionally burned up 260 Starlink satellites in the last six months, with hundreds more set to follow

Climate change and the environment only matters when feeding the peasants crickets and stopping them from traveling or living in humane conditions.

It doesn't apply to the ruling class.
You bought that nonsense about reentering satellites destroying the ozone layer, eh? The equivalent of 200+ Starlink satellites in meteors burn up in the earth's atmosphere each day ... and that's been happening for billions of years.
 
You bought that nonsense about reentering satellites destroying the ozone layer, eh? The equivalent of 200+ Starlink satellites in meteors burn up in the earth's atmosphere each day ... and that's been happening for billions of years.
Do those meteors contain aluminium as a primary material which reacts with the atmosphere to create aluminium oxide which catalyses the chlorine ozone reaction to deplete the ozone layer? Oh and does that stay in the atmosphere for decades?

Where are you getting the 200+ from there bud? Most meteors are the size of a grain of sand and are made of silicates
 
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You bought that nonsense about reentering satellites destroying the ozone layer, eh? The equivalent of 200+ Starlink satellites in meteors burn up in the earth's atmosphere each day ... and that's been happening for billions of years.
:rolleyes: Throwing your straw man into the fire again, I see.

Meteors that burn up in the atmosphere are not thought to have a detrimental effect on the environment.

Need I remind you that the chemical composition of the Starlink satellites is far different from meteors?
 
:rolleyes: Need I remind you that the chemical composition of the Starlink satellites is far different from meteors?
Why not learn science? The primary component of Starlink satellites is aluminum, which is widely present in asteroids. The claims of "ozone depletion" are from the aluminum oxide particles released when the satellites reenter the atmosphere.

".... Satellites burn up at the end of service life during reentry, generating aluminum oxides as the main byproduct. These are known catalysts for chlorine activation that depletes ozone in the stratosphere....."


"...aluminum is widely present in asteroids. It naturally occurs locked within silicate rocks and minerals (like aluminum oxides)...."

" Aluminum is the 12th most common element in the cosmos. It is a primary building block of rocky planets and meteorites...."

Do those meteors contain aluminium as a primary material which reacts with the atmosphere to create aluminium oxide which catalyses the chlorine ozone reaction to deplete the ozone layer?
Yes. To be precise, it's generally already in oxide form ... but even if it wasn't, superheated aluminum reacts readily with atmospheric oxygen.

Oh and does that stay in the atmosphere for decades?
Do you believe aluminum oxide from a natural satellite is somehow chemically different than that from an artificial satellite?

Where are you getting the 200+ from there bud? Most meteors are the size of a grain of sand and are made of silicates
More than 100 tons of grain-sized micrometeorites strike the earth each day. I'm surprised you don't already realize this.
 
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Why not learn science? The primary component of Starlink satellites is aluminum, which is widely present in asteroids. The claims of "ozone depletion" are from the aluminum oxide particles released when the satellites reenter the atmosphere.

".... Satellites burn up at the end of service life during reentry, generating aluminum oxides as the main byproduct. These are known catalysts for chlorine activation that depletes ozone in the stratosphere....."


"...aluminum is widely present in asteroids. It naturally occurs locked within silicate rocks and minerals (like aluminum oxides)...."

" Aluminum is the 12th most common element in the cosmos. It is a primary building block of rocky planets and meteorites...."


Yes. To be precise, it's generally already in oxide form ... but even if it wasn't, superheated aluminum reacts readily with atmospheric oxygen.


Do you believe aluminum oxide from a natural satellite is somehow chemically different than that from an artificial satellite?


More than 100 tons of grain-sized micrometeorites strike the earth each day. I'm surprised you don't already realize this.
Aluminium makes up a tiny fraction of meteors, research shows that 10% of all particles in the stratosphere is aluminium from satellites and all problem metals resulting from satellites exceed that from cosmic dust.

Link
 
Aluminium makes up a tiny fraction of meteors, research shows that 10% of all particles in the stratosphere is aluminium from satellites and all problem metals resulting from satellites exceed that from cosmic dust.
Well, you've embarrassed yourself yet again. There's nothing special about aluminum oxide particles; they don't chemically interact with ozone. Instead they -- and any other similar-sized particles -- catalyze the reaction in an identical manner. Carbon, Iron and nickel particles, for instance -- the primary constituents of asteroids -- are even more effective at breaking down ozone:


Nor is aluminum particularly rare in asteroids: it averages about 8% in S-type asteroids, and ~1.5% in others. But again: it's not the element itself that matters, but the reactant surface.

Finally, your figure of 10% of all stratospheric particles is also wrong ... or, more precisely, outdated, as we've recently discovered an additional source of ultrafine organic particles in the stratosphere that's increased the amount from natural sources by a factor of ten:

 
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Well, you've embarrassed yourself yet again. There's nothing special about aluminum oxide particles; they don't chemically interact with ozone. Instead they -- and any other similar-sized particles -- catalyze the reaction in an identical manner. Carbon, Iron and nickel particles, for instance -- the primary constituents of asteroids -- are even more effective at breaking down ozone:
As I stated previously aluminium oxide the chlorine ozone reaction which is incredibly effective at destroying ozone and is why we banned CFCs like R12 (Freon).

Nor is aluminum particularly rare in asteroids: it averages about 8% in S-type asteroids, and ~1.5% in others. But again: it's not the element itself that matters, but the reactant surface.
That is from 1995, it’s incorrect and out of date. Which is why your claims are wrong.
Finally, your figure of 10% of all stratospheric particles is also wrong ... or, more precisely, outdated, as we've recently discovered an additional source of ultrafine organic particles in the stratosphere that's increased the amount from natural sources by a factor of ten:

Your source isn’t relevant nor does it back up any of your claims.
 
As I stated previously aluminium oxide the [sic] chlorine ozone reaction which is incredibly effective at destroying ozone and is why we banned CFCs like R12 (Freon).
As you incorrectly stated. CFCs interact chemically with ozone, and there is no chlorine in aluminum oxide. Do you see a "Cl" in Al2O3?

As my above references verify, tiny particles of *any* substance can and does catalyze ozone destruction. I'll repeat the most relevant portion. Any words you fail to understand, simply point them out for assistance:

"....Ozone destruction by submicron particles has been experimentally investigated by measuring the ozone volume mixing ratio as a function of the particle concentration ... Submicron carbon or iron aerosol particles are found to destroy ozone efficiently...."


Do you need a reference on how much carbon, iron, and nickel are in asteroids?

That is from 1995, it’s incorrect and out of date. Which is why your claims are wrong.
Do you believe the composition of asteroids has changed since 1995? And my other research dates from as late of April of this year.

Your source isn’t relevant nor does it back up any of your claims.
The source is indeed relevant. Do you not understand that, when we discover an entirely new class of stratospheric particles that dwarfs all other sources, it ineluctably reduces the contributions of other sources?
 
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As you incorrectly stated. CFCs interact chemically with ozone, and there is no chlorine in aluminum oxide. Do you see a "Cl" in Al2O3?
My degree says I know more about it that you. You clearly do not understand what a catalyst is or what it does as evidenced by that question.
As my above references verify, tiny particles of *any* substance can and does catalyze ozone destruction. I'll repeat the most relevant portion. Any words you fail to understand, simply point them out for assistance:

"....Ozone destruction by submicron particles has been experimentally investigated by measuring the ozone volume mixing ratio as a function of the particle concentration ... Submicron carbon or iron aerosol particles are found to destroy ozone efficiently...."
But ti what degree and for how long under what conditions? There’s a reason why refrigerants have ODP ratings.

Do you need a reference on how much carbon, iron, and nickel are in asteroids?


Do you believe the composition of asteroids has changed since 1995? And my other research dates from as late of April of this year.
Do you think understand has changed wince 1995? Your more recent research isn’t relevant.
The source is indeed relevant. Do you not understand that, when we discover an entirely new class of stratospheric particles that dwarfs all other sources, it ineluctably reduces the contributions of other sources?
It’s really not and you’re citing old out of date papers
 
My degree says I know more about it that you. You clearly do not understand what a catalyst is or what it does as evidenced by that question.

But ti what degree and for how long under what conditions? There’s a reason why refrigerants have ODP ratings.

Do you think understand has changed wince 1995? Your more recent research isn’t relevant.

It’s really not and you’re citing old out of date papers
Your degree says fallacy of appeal to authority.

Sincerely, fellow forumer with hons degree in general chemistry.
 
Your degree says fallacy of appeal to authority.
Not really it’s more showing of a deeper understanding that when someone tells you that you’re wrong it’s from that deeper understanding not just vibes and an AI answer from Google.
Sincerely, fellow forumer with hons degree in general chemistry.
More that I know a catalyst isn’t required to contain the reactant in question, in this case chlorine, at all. I am aware that’s GCSE level science but some people don’t seem to get it.
 
My degree says I know more about it that you. You clearly do not understand what a catalyst is or what it does as evidenced by that question.
Ah, an appeal to authority fallacy. How typical. How trite. You still haven't explained why you believe aluminum oxide contains chlorine. Nor have you addressed the tremendous body of research proving that stratospheric particles that are *not* aluminum -- the iron, nickel, and carbon that comprise the bulk of asteroid mass -- are equally adept at catalyzing ozone destruction.

The paper I cited is hardly unique; I can provide countless others.

"...Sub-micrometer refractory carbonaceous particles in the polar stratosphere
particle samples collected in the polar stratosphere during SOLVE (SAGE III Ozone loss and validation experiment) ... aircraft exhaust, volcanic emissions and biomass burning can certainly be excluded as sources. The same is true[ for] wood burning, coal burning, diesel engines and ship emissions ... Recondensed organic matter and extraterrestrial particles, potentially originating from ablation and fragmentation, remain as possible sources..."


Or:

"...we turn our attention to iron, one of the most reactive elements [that] destroy ozone. Iron in primary and secondary aerosols plays a crucial role in the formation of ice crystals in cirrus clouds and in the polar stratospheric clouds that are involved in ozone hole formation. Iron is associated with reactive oxygen species, like the hydroxyl radical (OH) that destroys ozone in the stratosphere. Iron is known to activate halogens including chlorine, bromine, and iodine. Ozone is destroyed by adsorption onto Iron-containing particles..."


Do you think understand has changed [sic] wince 1995? Your more recent research isn’t relevant.
I can't quite understand the broken English, but do you or do you not believe that asteroid composition changed somehow after the year 1995? If so, here's a more recent paper from 2023 confirming my remarks:

 
Wow! all these comments are so complicated and fully informed on the subjects of satellites, meteors and and low orbital space! Obviously, you all must be well educated and filled with knowledge- And have earned college degree's and phd's!!
I gotta ask: How have you become so interested about imaginary subjects that you have never personally experienced? How do you come to believe in the existence of space and the pretend world of all these details in exact measurements? If ANYONE can speak of their personal experiences of physically exploring space, outer space or even low orbit space-- I would appreciate it! I have been unable to overcome the mindless conspiracy theorists insisting that NASA purchases more helium than all other buyers(worldwide) added together.
Individually, viewing the skies above with telescopes and exploring the night sky is more realistic than any of the photography taken from outer space...
Telescopes and photography combined with a quality computer are great- yet limited.
 
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