Tesla increases Supercharging prices to the point that gas might be cheaper (Updated)

[Bajah]

This is a mute article as most people with a Telsa will charge it at home. Only on road trips would it be necessary to use a supercharger and even then with good planning not even then.

 

[captaincranky]

Same size car has 20-15 gallons of fuel not 12... and shall we begin to factor in the cost of oil wars and climate change? It is not always about the almighty dollar in any case. In time the plan is for the super chargers to be solar powered and will reduce the operating costs by 8x or so. This is not a profit center for Tesla.

And what is your fantasy about how many square feet of solar panels would be needed to run a 120 KW charger full time?

You can run the average townhouse during the summer at maybe 4 KW an hour, and people can't afford that many solar panels.

 

[captaincranky]

This is a mute article as most people with a Telsa will charge it at home. Only on road trips would it be necessary to use a supercharger and even then with good planning not even then.

People keep harping on how other people are going to "charge their EV at home".

I's suggest taking your silver spoon out of your mouth before you put your foot in it. Wanna guess how many people live in apartments, how many houses don't have dead on out front parking, how many houses don't have garages?

That's a whole lot of instances where some arrogant EV proponent just can't say, (in their typical cavalier manner), "just take it home and throw it on the charger.

In fact, I just priced having a 14-40 electric outlet installed for Tesla's new charger, and it was something like $600.00 to $1,100.00.

And at 40 KW capacity, just to be a smart a**, I'm going to call that, "Tesla's trickle charger".

 

[captaincranky]

I happen to own a Ford Explorer and live in California. I use premium and have always paid over $3/gal for it here. So if I pull in to the gas station anywhere under a quarter tank I will usually spend over $50 to fill up.

Maybe you should have read the instructions to that Explorer. They would have told you it runs on regular.

But if pissing away your money pouring high test through it makes you feel good about yourself, by all means, don't let me stop you.

 

[mctommy]

Why using reference points of CA and NY supercharger cost with Tesla estimated $2.85/gal and $0.31/kWh when supercharger pricing is based on local pricing as well and in those states with cheap gas... most of them also have cheaper supercharger cost (definitely lower than $0.31/kWh)

 

[captaincranky]

Even if the price of EVs drops to the level of ICE cars, range and charging limitations will still be an issue for many. Most of us need one car that can do everything, including longer trips.

Now, if they could get 600 miles out of the model 3 at under $30K, and the supercharger network would dramatically expand to every major highway in the US, I could see them entering mainstream dominance over ICEs, but that is a long time away from now.


What does the size of the gas tank matter? That 20 gallon tank car can go well north of 500 miles on a tank, while the tesla cant manage much more then 300.

If you want to factor in the "oil wars" and climate change, you should also factor in the pollution caused by cobalt and nickle mining, the use of child labor in these processes, and the increased use of fossil fuels to power all those EV cars. You can wax poetic about solar all you want, but there is currently no modern country that can sustain itself on solar, much of that extra demand will come from oil and natural gas, possibly even delay the closing of coal plants by a decade or more.

What I've found out about all these activist EV proponents, is that they're simply incapable of doing 5th grade math.

Tesla just eliminated the 85 kw battery option in their Model S and X vehicles. Their prices are expected to rise by as much as $18,000 with the 100 kw battery as standard equipment.

OK, so that's 15 kw more capacity for $15.000, which means you'll pay 1,000 per kw more for the extra capacity.

Now, if the total capacity of the new battery is 100 kw, when we multiply by $1,000 a kw, it means the battery as a whole, would cost $100,000 !

Basically, Tesla just rammed a $15,000 price increase down their customers throats, trying to mask that price increase with another few miles of range.

(BTW, using only $15,000 as the variable in that equation, I gave Tesla the benefit of the doubt).

 

[Evolm3]

This is a mute article as most people with a Telsa will charge it at home. Only on road trips would it be necessary to use a supercharger and even then with good planning not even then.

People keep harping on how other people are going to "charge their EV at home".

I's suggest taking your silver spoon out of your mouth before you put your foot in it. Wanna guess how many people live in apartments, how many houses don't have dead on out front parking, how many houses don't have garages?

That's a whole lot of instances where some arrogant EV proponent just can't say, (in their typical cavalier manner), "just take it home and throw it on the charger.

In fact, I just priced having a 14-40 electric outlet installed for Tesla's new charger, and it was something like $600.00 to $1,100.00.

And at 40 KW capacity, just to be a smart a**, I'm going to call that, "Tesla's trickle charger".

Yes most people who "own" Teslas charge at home. It's not about who lives in apartments, you can live on the streets for all I care. Now if you live on the streets and own a tesla then you really should really consider ur priorities. If you are buying a tesla with the hopes of supercharging only, u should really educate yourself on how EV cars work. Almost 90% of people who supercharge only need about 50% or less charge which is only about 15-20min, and should be done only on long long travels. 300 miles is more than enough. And plus I got my 14-50 plug installed for $150. There's a DIY on the university of YouTube. It just a matter of adding a 50amp breaker and adding wires. And twisting them together. Not rocket science.

 

[captaincranky]

Yes most people who "own" Teslas charge at home. It's not about who lives in apartments, you can live on the streets for all I care. Now if you live on the streets and own a tesla then you really should really consider ur priorities. If you are buying a tesla with the hopes of supercharging only, u should really educate yourself on how EV cars work. Almost 90% of people who supercharge only need about 50% or less charge which is only about 15-20min, and should be done only on long long travels. 300 miles is more than enough. And plus I got my 14-50 plug installed for $150. There's a DIY on the university of YouTube. It just a matter of adding a 50amp breaker and adding wires. And twisting them together. Not rocket science.

My post really wasn't about how lucky, resourceful, clever, or frugal you are, nor your opinion of people of lower social status than yourself, or how willing to do electrical work without a permit you are.

It's just a general observation. Deal with it.

 

[SCSolarguy]

What has changed since gas was $4.50 a gallon? Is there more oil? Is the world safer, no threats in Iran, Syria or elsewhere? Is it that EV's threaten the status quo? What happens when gas prices go up again or a major producer runs out of oil?

 

[captaincranky]

What has changed since gas was $4.50 a gallon? Is there more oil? Is the world safer, no threats in Iran, Syria or elsewhere? Is it that EV's threaten the status quo? What happens when gas prices go up again or a major producer runs out of oil?

Well, I think the US is supposed to be somewhere near energy independent ATM.

My only point is, that EV aren't practical for everyone, and am about sick and tired of the mindless EV promoters, who think that EVs will be "the wave of the future, day after tomorrow".

It's all wonderfully self righteous, but frankly Tesla stock, while not quite as over valued as Bitcoin, has been capitalized on the backs of the American taxpayer and stockholders for years. And now Musk is taking his show on the road to China. One has to wonder if he'll be willing to continue to suffer operating losses here without subsidies, or Teslas will turn into just another item on our trade deficit bill.

Usually, when a business starts jacking up prices the way Tesla has recently, it's in trouble. And higher prices usually lead to lower sales, and the whole process can, and has with other businesses in the past, plummet downward out of control, in a death spiral..

 

[carmann]

If everyone drives electric cars, what happens when government gets no revenue from gas tax?

 

[mailpup]

If everyone drives electric cars, what happens when government gets no revenue from gas tax?

I wouldn't be concerned about that. The government is very creative when it comes to taxing you. They'll figure something out. You can count on it.

 

[SpiceWare]

While nice, not many of us get free electricity.

Which is why I also mentioned the cost based on my average price per kWh. Using that, some simple math, and the average for residential US of 12.87 cents per kWh we get:

8.33 * 0.1287 / 0.1033 = $10.38 for 310 miles for the average American.

The home rate is fine as long as you never travel over 150 miles from home.

Typical weekend trip for me is to Corpus Christi or San Antonio. Both are about 200 miles away from Houston. I start out with a "full tank" at my home rate. I stop for a ~10 minute bathroom break at the Superchargers located midway, which adds enough range to drive around the city once I get there (less than $3 of electricity). Once I'm at my destination I plug in, the charger at the hotel is free just like the free breakfast - a way for them to attract clientele.

 

[SpiceWare]

What has changed since gas was $4.50 a gallon? Is there more oil? Is the world safer, no threats in Iran, Syria or elsewhere? Is it that EV's threaten the status quo? What happens when gas prices go up again or a major producer runs out of oil?

Who knows, in my initial post* I pointed out that the price of gas is quite volatile.

* which appears to have been deleted. Is it common for Techspot to delete comments that are critical of an article?

 

[senketsu]

I just looked at Tesla Canada. A Model S starts at $124,600.
people posting above have used these to 'drive around town' and claim how cheap it is.
someone else states "we have already reached the point of price parity if you factor in lower fueling costs and probable lower maintenance costs" - I disagree
another "At this rate the tires are the single biggest operating expense on our car" yes, but the car 'starts' at $124,600 plus add the tax and extra charges, adding a charger to your home.....are you going to save 90 thousand plus dollars? Your car (and possibly you) will be dead and buried before that happens.

 

[Tyler Fawkes]

This really isn't surprising. The cost of Level-3 (FAST) charging everywhere is expensive. At VW's 'Electrify America', EVgo and other networks L-3 charging can be ridiculously outrageous. At times it's far more expensive than local gas prices where the charging station is located. I'm hoping this is just part of EV charging infrastructure growing pains. Maybe eventually prices will level out at more reasonable rates. Tesla just seems to be just adjusting their fees to market norms.

The reality is the vast majority of the time we drive around within range of our Leaf and charge cheaply ($0.10/kWh) at home. We also occasionally travel to a few regular destinations at the edge of our range where free charging is still available to get home. Based on many conversations with other EV drivers, I think this is pretty much common behavior. The only people I know of taking longer trips in their EV are Tesla drivers. I personally define 'longer trips' as anything beyond two or three times vehicle range. Even then and even with outrageous public charging cost on the road, it's still cheaper to drive an EV year-round.

Our rule of thumb is if it's going to take more than 3 extra hours to get somewhere due to charging, we rent something. We realized years ago it's a lot cheaper to rent a ICE when necessary, than keep one around we don't drive. I've also reached the age where if I can't get somewhere in 10 hours driving, I'm flying. What we need in the US is cheap, convenient, reliable rail service like they have in Europe and other places.

 

[Tyler Fawkes]

MiniGolf, thanks for posting this. I've seen several similar personal stories online and I know several other EV drivers with similar experiences. We lease, but other EV folks we've talked with tell us owning an EV is cheaper and at worst the cost of owning their EV is a wash with what they traded.

Squid Surprise, I agree with you that a better alternative is to take a bus. No question. And you are also correct that our purchase of a Model S was not to save money. Nor was it for prestige. I value money more than that.

We traded in a Chevy avalanche that cost us $5000/year in depreciation. Our Tesla Model S depreciated over 10 years would cost us $9000/year (assuming it's worthless at that point), but we are saving $3500/year in fuel savings alone (at current prices). We can argue about whether maintenance is more or less, whether we lost interest income, etc., but the big picture is that we are about the same as we were with the truck. Had we bought a Model 3 we would be way ahead.

But my reason for buying a Tesla was that 2 years ago Tesla was the only company making a car that worked for us, and because I write about Global Warming and the urgent need to stop burning fossil fuel, I could not wait. I do not encourage others to make a rash change as we did. I simply encourage people to start looking at EVs now, so that when they reach a natural time to replace their current ICE vehicle they give EVs proper consideration in their purchasing consideration. I also like owning a Tesla because it is a natural way to get into conversations about renewable energy and EVs. Yes, one of my goals in life is to educate people about EVs and to get them prepared to consider them the next time they buy a car.

In my opinion, we have already reached the point of price parity if you factor in lower fueling costs and probable lower maintenance costs.

 

[mailpup]

* which appears to have been deleted. Is it common for Techspot to delete comments that are critical of an article?

When a new member posts a questionable link, it might get deleted. One link would only allow bookmarking for some reason.

 

[SpiceWare]

When a new member posts a questionable link, it might get deleted. One link would only allow bookmarking for some reason.

Thanks! I did have links:

• Tesla's site to the Mobile Connector - the cable that comes with the car that is used to plug into a standard electrical outlet
• Tesla's site to the adapters - to show the 8 standard electrical outlets the above cable supports
  
• Gasbuddy to a historical gas price chart - to show the volatility of gas prices & that we're currently at a low point.

Don't know what would be questionable with any of those.

 

[Jonny Molander]

I am a Tesla owner. I drive an (for US) average amount per year (~12-15k miles). I have NEVER used a supercharger. I have a Tesla charger at home and at my cabin. People should not compare charging an electric vehicle with filling gas at the gas station. I don't drain my Tesla to 5% and then go to the super charging station. It's much more like a smart phone. I plug it in at night and leave with a full (90%) charge in the morning. People that compare cost of ownership (from a "fuel" perspective) based on cost at a Supercharging station don't get it. If you're in sales and drive 200+ miles a day then supercharging matters. Most people are not.

 

[mctommy]

I just looked at Tesla Canada. A Model S starts at $124,600.
people posting above have used these to 'drive around town' and claim how cheap it is.
someone else states "we have already reached the point of price parity if you factor in lower fueling costs and probable lower maintenance costs" - I disagree
another "At this rate the tires are the single biggest operating expense on our car" yes, but the car 'starts' at $124,600 plus add the tax and extra charges, adding a charger to your home.....are you going to save 90 thousand plus dollars? Your car (and possibly you) will be dead and buried before that happens.

People who buy Model S aren't the ones looking for CAD$34,600 cars... while I agree with you that price parity has not been accomplished, but at least have some more realistic expectations. If you have the dough to spend that much money, you need to compare the price of cars that you would otherwise have bought in the same category.

 

[Squid Surprise]

People who buy Model S aren't the ones looking for CAD$34,600 cars... while I agree with you that price parity has not been accomplished, but at least have some more realistic expectations. If you have the dough to spend that much money, you need to compare the price of cars that you would otherwise have bought in the same category.

Agreed... but the "equivalent" car would still be around $50,000 less.... if cost is your concern, buying a Tesla (especially the S) is rather silly...

 

[mctommy]

Agreed... but the "equivalent" car would still be around $50,000 less.... if cost is your concern, buying a Tesla (especially the S) is rather silly...

This CAD $ is throwing all things sideways

I would compare a US$80k Tesla Type S with a US$50k-60k medium size luxury sedan. Whether US$20k-30k difference is worth to go for the Tesla, that really depends on the person.

 

[Bill Hepworth]

Strange article that seems to really miss the point. The first obvious mistake is the reliance on Supercharging. Although I racked up 90,000 miles on my Tesla I only use the Superchargers a small portion of the time. An overwhelming majority of the time I charge at home every night at around $.14 kWh. Every morning I end up with a full charge and 205+ mile range. So if I am not driving over 100 miles during the day I never touch the Supercharger. An increasing number of EV owners charge off their own solar energy so it costs very little per kWH. Gas vehicles simply do not have this option and so you ALWAYS needs to fuel up at the gas station.

Takeaway: Supercharging is not a requirement. Just a luxury for interstate travel.

 

[Bill Hepworth]

I am a Tesla owner. I drive an (for US) average amount per year (~12-15k miles). I have NEVER used a supercharger. I have a Tesla charger at home and at my cabin. People should not compare charging an electric vehicle with filling gas at the gas station. I don't drain my Tesla to 5% and then go to the super charging station. It's much more like a smart phone. I plug it in at night and leave with a full (90%) charge in the morning. People that compare cost of ownership (from a "fuel" perspective) based on cost at a Supercharging station don't get it. If you're in sales and drive 200+ miles a day then supercharging matters. Most people are not.

The problem is that many people just can't think outside of what they already know. The media can only focus on the Supercharger aspect as it is the closest analog to gas stations. Surely if every home had gas a ridiculously low prices and automatically refuel at night they would use that instead of going to a station right?