Tesla unlocks full battery capacity so Florida residents can escape Hurricane Irma

By Shawn Knight ยท 56 replies
Sep 10, 2017
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  1. CaptainTom

    CaptainTom TS Maniac Posts: 318   +137

    Why are you taking anything that guy posts seriously?

    He is a mountain of contradictions that never agrees with anyone, and only exists to post what he thinks are clever jabs. But they never are....
  2. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,519   +3,035

    When did you appoint yourself the sole arbiter of what's clever and what's not around here? How do you tell? After all, you have to be funny to judge funny, and clever to judge clever. From what I've seen you post, you're neither. In fact, good or bad, whether I agree with it or not, your material isn't even interesting. In really, it's rather mundane.

    Your avatar exposes your self image. You're dangerous, self important, imposing, a force to be reckoned with, large and in charge, blah, blah, blah.

    Do have a nice day. :) (y)
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  3. namesrejected

    namesrejected TS Guru Posts: 398   +301

    Just glanced over all the posts and didn't see this mentioned so I think I will mention it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but lithium batteries need to be fully depleted and charged occasionally for them to remain healthy. How are you going to deplete it completely, and fully charge it if they are limiting how much you can?
  4. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,519   +3,035

    The older NiCad batteries were extremely temperamental in that regard. They would develop "memory" of their last charging state. You could have a perfectly good 500ma battery, and only get maybe 300ma of use out of it, if it wasn't "cycled" frequently. In fact, there were special pulse chargers designed for NiCads, which would burn through minor shorts in the cells and even increase the cell's capacity. For best performance, a "cycler / charger" was mandatory. these would drop the cell to perhaps 70% to 90% of dscharge, and then go into the charging mode. I used to use them in the very critical application of radio control model aircraft control systems. At the time, NiCads were all we had, at least in the way of rechargeables. (Obviously the sheer weight of lead'acid storage batteries, made them unsuitable for small aircraft use).

    I don't believe todays NiMh suffer from memory issues. If they do at all, it certainly is nowhere near as severely. Allowing NiCad to completely discharge, was tantamount to ruining it.

    75 Kwh over 60 Kwh is equivalent to an 80% discharge cycle. That said, if it were the case that lithium batteries needed to be cycled completely to avoid memory issues, imagine what a pain in the a** that would present to the electric car owner. To avoid damage, the discharge rate should need to be somewhere near the maximum charging rate. In other words, on battery cycling days, the car would need to be laid up perhaps twice as long as on simple charging days.

    As far as Musk's philosophy toward battery longevity is concerned, I think he'd be willing to sell you a new $10,000+ battery pack in a heartbeat, whether it was Tesla's fault the battery failed or not.

    What concerns me more than battery memory issues, is the total number of charge cycles available. Typically, I think your laptop batteries are rated at maybe 400 cycles (?), that's not very many in the life of a car battery pack. (I did not research that number, nor would I trust Tesla to tell me the truth. So take that number FWIW, a guess).

    I'm also certain that Lithium batteries, (as with all rechargeables), lose capacity as they near the end of their service lives. What that means is, simply because your Tesla would go 200 miles between charges off the showroom floor, doesn't mean it will go that far after owning it a couple of years
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  5. Icysoul

    Icysoul TS Enthusiast Posts: 39   +13

    My guess is that the battery is fully charged every time the meter says so, but the dashboard displays only 60. So if the car were to "burn" 60 kWh, the software shuts the power, regardless of the amount of charge that's left in the battery. A d*** move, ik
  6. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,519   +3,035

    @Icysoul In all honesty, I don't think I could deal with a vehicle whose manufacturer could sh!t all over you by remote control. OBD and computer control are annoying in their own right, but nothing of the magnitude where somebody at a factory 2000 miles away, could summarily reprogram your car. Nooooo, thank you! :mad:.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  7. mosu

    mosu TS Guru Posts: 481   +86

    @captaincranky: I wonder what's your take on 123 batteries NiMH with phosphate and later LiFePO4 and how the government handled the 500 mill $ factory.
  8. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al TS Evangelist Posts: 3,935   +2,424

    Seems to me I remember a legal case against a producer years ago that "crippled" their product with the intent of paying for an upgrade years later. If memory serves, the courts determined that anything sold must have full capability or an acknowledgement from the buyer they knew in advanced what they were getting. It also detailed that this information could not be buried in the "fine print" and had to be a separate disclosure. Can't remember what it was or what product it covered, but it would be interesting to see how that decision might reflect on Tesla's practice .... if at all.
  9. Jroc187

    Jroc187 TS Enthusiast Posts: 25   +12

    Most of the CPU's they manufacturer have flaws the ones that don't are sold as the top tire i7 the rest get cut down then sold as i5 or i3 and so on. AMD, Nivida they all do this.
  10. Kibaruk

    Kibaruk TechSpot Paladin Posts: 3,432   +980

    I thought it was for increased battery life or something like that. Almost SSD type, it both impresses and saddens me... in order for them to save money, they put a bigger battery that is software locked, and you get the opportunity of a lifetime to unlock it for a mere couple of bucks... geez.
  11. Puiu

    Puiu TS Evangelist Posts: 2,888   +1,313

    You are just making really weird and biassed assumptions. What's worse you are not even trying dude. It's not that I "suppose I could be wrong" it's that you don't know and you are most likely wrong on all fronts. I also have no idea why you think that NASA paying for contracts is wrong if it's much cheaper for them to do that. Most people are actually surprised that SpaceX got a lot less money than Boeing from NASA when you look at things objectively (I think it was 2.6 vs 4.2 bil). But at least they aren't using Russia the send astronauts into space. It was freaking expensive, 70 mil per flight.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  12. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Grand Inquisitor Posts: 5,051   +4,086

    So what you're telling me is that The Taken King, a DLC for Destiny, cost Bungie/Activision no additional time or money beyond development of the base game? Instead, they had to spend that time and money creating a licence and then inserting a boolean somewhere in the game code?

    You don't understand the post you are responding to.
  13. Kibaruk

    Kibaruk TechSpot Paladin Posts: 3,432   +980

    I believe that you didn't understand. Although I don't approve the practice, it makes sense.
    You were to be releasing a software that made A, B and C, but you planned forward and said, ok, we have everything covered, let's add some more features that were never planned to add to the base software, and let's later unlock by codes. So you hire more people into your team in order to prepare function D. Everyone is happy until people know that that development took place in between the launch for the base software, even though you used additional resources in order to have D and you plan to charge for it if people want to use it, it makes sense.
  14. Puiu

    Puiu TS Evangelist Posts: 2,888   +1,313

    Except that with very few exceptions that's not how DLC is being developed.
  15. davislane1

    davislane1 TS Grand Inquisitor Posts: 5,051   +4,086

    Then you believe incorrectly. I know how the DLC development process works. It has been discussed at length on this website and I've even said that it makes business sense. This is part of why, in my original post, I said that these Tesla models have on-disc DLC. The difference being this wasn't something that was added once the base battery pack was already completed and awaiting distribution. Rather, it was specifically engineered to have this capacity from the start and they locked it as DLC anyways.

    There is good DLC and bad DLC. This is the same type of DLC people complain ruins gaming but they give it a pass because EVs are their tech fetish.

    It is (or was) a savvy business move. It's also entertaining.
  16. NightAntilli

    NightAntilli TS Maniac Posts: 212   +155

    Maybe it was locked because charging to 100% degrades your battery a lot faster than charging to say 80%.
  17. viperfl

    viperfl TS Enthusiast Posts: 30   +9

    We have pay to play games, now we have pay to drive cars.
  18. peas

    peas TS Enthusiast Posts: 53

    Couple of thoughts...

    Have you considered that those who bought the 60 kWh pack (which was a limited 75 kWh pack) got a discount on that pack? Let's say the 75 kWh pack costs $40k for Model S owners who get the full capacity. The Model S buyers who opted for 60 kWh only pay $35k. This up-front discount can be recovered when they pony up the additional money later.

    As for the criticisms of Elon making money, your angst is better pointed at capitalism. Capitalism sets no moral or ethical standards, it is purely about making money. If that's the case, you're anti-capitalist, which would put you in the camp of socialist or communist. That's funny because most of those berating Elon for making money also claim to hate socialism.

    "But he's doing it dishonestly!" ... Read above. Capitalism isn't about honesty, it's about money. If you worship capitalism, don't complain about the dirty laundry that comes with it.
  19. MonsterZero

    MonsterZero TS Evangelist Posts: 477   +247

    Can we just get the season pass for the rest of the DLC?
  20. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,519   +3,035

    NASA was indeed crippled by the withholding of funding. Whether or not it was precipitated by "wasteful government spending" on NASA's part, is an entirely different topic, and unless you've been following the US Congress's budget votes and allotments for the past 2 or 3 decades, you should likely not portray yourself as an "expert".
    . I actually tucked that in there to soften the tone of the post a bit. It makes sense really to do so. Since, "you're always right, and I'm always wrong" anyway, (or so you say), I just thought I'd give you the opportunity to enlighten me. What I got was childish gloating and condescension. Oh well, my bad, It surely won't happen again.
    Maybe it was because Boeing is a long standing defense contractor, and Musk is better at finagling money from the private sector. Accordingly, the most money went to someone NASA knew and trusted. I'm not even going try and determine if that was the right move. You already have your answer picked out.

    I will say that if you choose to believe the fairly sizable volume of material on the web about Musk's treatment of his employees, his successes are based on their broken backs.
    At 70 million a pop, if they had any value at all, is was a step toward "Glasnost", since at least the parties had one common venture with an (at least outwardly appearing), healthy working relationship. Certainly much better then, than the sore losing Democratic party has turned them into now.

    You're absolutely not going to like what I have to say next. So let's postpone it, until I decide to "unlock my reserves", so to speak.
  21. Tanstar

    Tanstar TS Evangelist Posts: 655   +199

    I'm in my 40s and I think it's the exact same thing. Of course, I like to buy those locked core CPUs and unlock the cores for free speed and I'd do the same to those batteries if I owned a Tesla car.
  22. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,519   +3,035

    Well, I admire your spunk and confidence, but the facts of the matter are, I'm pretty sure your Tesla is sending more telemetry back to the factory, than your $100.00 'modified' CPU. In practical fact though, tampering with the car's software configuration could net you a voided warranty, and a violation of ToS action against you.

    If you understood the 'extra range battery alteration", was, 'optional at extra cost', at the time of purchase, I'd speculate you could pick up a 'theft of services' complaint.

    Please note that these are simply idle musings on my part. But know his, Tesla is making book on every move that someone makes with one of their cars. It's probably as bad, if not worse, than letting those douches at "Progressive" shove one of their "snapshot" devices up your com port, "to earn yourself a lower insurance premium".

    I do know Tesla was all prepared with downloaded data from the "autopilot accident", and more than ready, willing, and able, to hang the incident on the driver, while absolving themselves of any responsibility.

    Just offering some fun facts for you to ponder.(y)
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  23. viperfl

    viperfl TS Enthusiast Posts: 30   +9

  24. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,519   +3,035

    @viperfl We respect what you have to say, but ask that you reformat it to make it more accessible.

    Please edit so that peas' post is inside the quote box, and your response is outside the box and under it. Thanks in advance.
    Tanstar likes this.
  25. viperfl

    viperfl TS Enthusiast Posts: 30   +9

    What does Capitalism have to do with it? What Elon Musk is doing is a personal preference, not part of any economic system. The higher capacity is already built into the battery, just need software to release it.

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