TSMC's extreme work culture is putting off US workers, CEO says employees should have...

[midian182]

A hot potato: The Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, or TSMC as it's better known, is the world's most valuable and biggest manufacturer of semiconductor chips. But it seems that working at the firm's US operations is a grueling, brutal experience, and that's making hiring new staff for its Arizona foundries difficult.

Fortune reports that TSMC's profile on Glassdoor, the platform where current and former employees anonymously review companies, doesn't paint a pretty picture of the tech giant's work culture. It had a mere 27% approval rating from 91 reviews. For comparison, Intel's approval rating is 85%, though that's from tens of thousands of reviews.

Some of the complaints include twelve-hour days, common weekend shifts, and a "brutal" work-life balance. One person wrote that they saw people sleep in the office for a month straight.

"TSMC is about obedience [and is] not ready for America," one engineer wrote in January. There are also complaints about poor training, stress, heavy workloads, and a militaristic atmosphere.

In December last year, TSCM announced it would be investing up to $40 billion in the building of two advanced chip fabs – using the 4nm and 3nm processes - in Arizona, making it one of the largest foreign investments in US history, and something China isn't happy about. TSMC says it will hire 4,500 new workers to support the two plants, but the harsh working culture, rigid standards, and a required training period of up to 18 months in Taiwan are making filling all those positions challenging.

TSMC CEO Mark Liu thinks American workers have it easier than those in Taiwan

Focus Taiwan (via Tom's Hardware) reports that TSCM chairman Mark Liu responded to the Fortune article by saying that the company does not ask US employees to conform to the same work culture standards as those observed in Taiwan, suggesting that American employees have it easier than those in the Asian nation. He may be right: Fortune spoke to one American TSMC worker in Taiwan who said employees often do overtime to finish their workloads but are afraid to ask to be paid for it.

Liu added that anyone unwilling to take shifts should not enter the semiconductor industry, and even then, they should only do so if they have a passion for the work rather than a desire for lucrative wages.

Since the Fortune report was published, TSMC's Glassdoor approval rating has increased to 59%, though that's still not great compared to the likes of Intel.

Last month brought news that the extra expenses associated with setting up chip factories in the US compared to doing the same in Asia could see TSMC chips made in America cost 30% more than those manufactured in Taiwan.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/99008-tsmc-extreme-work-culture-affecting-us-hiring-ceo.html

 

[wiyosaya]

Just goes to show you that the cultures don't mix well. In essence, it sounds, to me, like the TSMC CEO is saying "I don't understand why American's don't want to work themselves to death like Chinese citizens do."

My advice to the CEO is that they ought to give their Chinese workers conditions like the Americans want. They might do even better as a company if they did that - not to mention, stop worrying about lining your own pockets with the fruits of the sweat of your workers. Have some respect for them, and stop treating them like drug mules. Not that he is going to listen, much less understand.

 

[dangh]

Oh ffs. Passion for staying 12 hours on the line and put a sticker to a product? Is he mad? Passion I can have for something creative, or for my family, not for bs job for minimum wage, where owner require me to work so much I could barely get time for sleep.
Sure, engineers creating new solutions should be driven to find better solutions and that gives satisfaction. But they even more needs to rest their heads and keep the balance or they will simply burn out - not something obviously he cares, he simply will put new people there to get the seniors' knowledge before they get fired.
If people do not feel good in the work it is solely management fault, not people's fault for not being 'passionate'. And sure, modern slaves from east asia slums do not have much other options, thankfully in US/EU situation is at least a bit better...

 

[RandomWAN]

There's a difference between having a passion for your job and expecting someone to make the job their entire life.

 

[Aranarth]

Just goes to show you that the cultures don't mix well. In essence, it sounds, to me, like the TSMC CEO is saying "I don't understand why American's don't want to work themselves to death like Chinese citizens do."

My advice to the CEO is that they ought to give their Chinese workers conditions like the Americans want. They might do even better as a company if they did that - not to mention, stop worrying about lining your own pockets with the fruits of the sweat of your workers. Have some respect for them, and stop treating them like drug mules. Not that he is going to listen, much less understand.

FYI Taiwan is NOT China just like Canada is not the United States even though both are in North America...

 

[Tom Sunday]

Looking at the numbers ‘The CHIPS Act’ provides $52.7 billion in federal funding, including $39 billion in semiconductor incentives alone. In addition to the funding, the CHIPS Act created a 25% advanced manufacturing investment tax credit administered by the US Department of the Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service for qualifying investments. As to the TSMC executive comments: “I as a typical American worker would be offended being told right upfront and especially by a representative of a foreign government and my immediate thought how they really feel about the Americans” The man on the street here would call this ill disguised contempt over the USA!

 

[Uncle Al]

The simple fact is that these days most American's won't put up with over burdened management. These guys are going to just have to figure out how to appease the workers and be satisfied with the maximum they can get ... or invest everything in AI and hope nothing ever breaks!

 

[wiyosaya]

FYI Taiwan is NOT China just like Canada is not the United States even though both are in North America...

You are right. My mistake, and my apologies if you are offended, however, when a company CEO basically supports "making work your life" as is the case in China, its easy to make that mistake. My opinion of the CEO still stands. People are not slaves that he can treat as he wishes. Maybe he can do that in Taiwan or elsewhere that they do business, however, in the US, he has competition for jobs from other chip plants, and I bet the working conditions in those other chip plants are/will be nowhere near that expected by TSMC. There's more to making a company competitive than just outselling your competition.

 

[hahahanoobs]

30% more for American made chips?
Um, no thanks?
Maybe it's best these fab deals with TSMC fall through. It definitely doesn't look like it was well thought out on a few levels.

 

[Neatfeatguy]

Between the age of about 21 thru 35 I had passion for work - just work in general, it didn't matter what job I was doing. I put in the time and effort to get things completed. I never really felt burnt out, but that changed right at the end of that age range for me. Doing tech support, even though I was only doing about 9 hour days at the end of that job, it became grueling and mind numbing. I never have really liked people, but I can put up a good front and deal with them, but that last job I hated people by the end.

I found a job that requires me to deal very infrequent with customers and I don't have to manage retards, I get to work amongst them and tell them off if they're being too retarded. I don't mind doing the work that's needed, but I won't go out of my way to put in lots of extra time anymore. I worked enough 14 hour days at my last job when staff was shorthanded. I'm not doing that anymore unless for some reason things change drastically in my life and it actually requires me to do so.

In my younger years I would have been content doing long shifts at a company like TSMC just because I like to keep busy. These days, though, I've got no issue telling anyone - supervisor/boss/owner - to pound sand if they try to force me to do more hours and work over my normal job.

 

[kira setsu]

Between the age of about 21 thru 35 I had passion for work - just work in general, it didn't matter what job I was doing. I put in the time and effort to get things completed. I never really felt burnt out, but that changed right at the end of that age range for me. Doing tech support, even though I was only doing about 9 hour days at the end of that job, it became grueling and mind numbing. I never have really liked people, but I can put up a good front and deal with them, but that last job I hated people by the end.

I found a job that requires me to deal very infrequent with customers and I don't have to manage retards, I get to work amongst them and tell them off if they're being too retarded. I don't mind doing the work that's needed, but I won't go out of my way to put in lots of extra time anymore. I worked enough 14 hour days at my last job when staff was shorthanded. I'm not doing that anymore unless for some reason things change drastically in my life and it actually requires me to do so.

In my younger years I would have been content doing long shifts at a company like TSMC just because I like to keep busy. These days, though, I've got no issue telling anyone - supervisor/boss/owner - to pound sand if they try to force me to do more hours and work over my normal job.

So you've established yourself enough in life where you can make that choice right?

It may be alot of work but depending on the pay and some other factors it could be what alot of folks are looking for to get them started, or out of a hole so they can get to where you are at some point hopefully, aka not having to work that hard.

 

[yRaz]

The last straw for me at my last job was after working 84 hours in 5 days(not a typeo) they wanted me to come into work at 3am on a Saturday. I came in, complete the job that was asked of me and then they wanted me to stay and do more work that wasn't on the job order, I simply told them no and left.

Got a call about that from HR the following monday. They wanted to write me up not for leaving work early on Saturday, but working multiple shifts without 8 hours between them because it was a safety hazard.

I quit and I still get calls occasionally from my old boss asking me to come back because they can't fill my position. I still work for then occasionally but I do so as a contractor, not an employee. I worked with lots of great people there but the idea of getting written up for working too hard was absurd.

I work to live not live to work. I also get 3 paid months off a year so I don't mind putting the hours in during the work season but we really need to evaluate working conditions

 

[waclark]

You are right. My mistake, and my apologies if you are offended, however, when a company CEO basically supports "making work your life" as is the case in China, its easy to make that mistake. My opinion of the CEO still stands. People are not slaves that he can treat as he wishes. Maybe he can do that in Taiwan or elsewhere that they do business, however, in the US, he has competition for jobs from other chip plants, and I bet the working conditions in those other chip plants are/will be nowhere near that expected by TSMC. There's more to making a company competitive than just outselling your competition.

Yeah, that's the thing though. There aren't that many chip plants in the US. It's like 6 companies operating 20 plants.

 

[p51d007]

The Asian work culture, for the most part has always been that way. Almost every "Asian" restaurant I've been to where I live, the people work their tails off. Go into most American places, it's hard to GET them to wait on you.

 

[yRaz]

The Asian work culture, for the most part has always been that way. Almost every "Asian" restaurant I've been to where I live, the people work their tails off. Go into most American places, it's hard to GET them to wait on you.

At least in my area, most Asian restaurants are owned and run by the family. For most Americans working in restaurants they're under paid and have no stake or incentive for making the business successful.

In the US we have a culture where the employees don't matter, everyone is replaceable and people just aren't willing to give up their lives for someone who doesn't care about them. I've had bosses who if they quit to start a business I'd follow them, I've also had bosses who cared so little about me that I quit.

I have feeling that the US is going through a bit of a workers rights renaissance. Employers are literally insulting potential prospects because they want things like "don't call me off the clock" and "This task doesn't require me to be at the office, I don't want to come in." While TSMC may not be a saint, they are starting a business in the US at a time when employees and employers are fighting with each other about better wages, better hours and a better work/life balance.

 

[Bamda]

Oh ffs. Passion for staying 12 hours on the line and put a sticker to a product? Is he mad? Passion I can have for something creative, or for my family, not for bs job for minimum wage, where owner require me to work so much I could barely get time for sleep.
Sure, engineers creating new solutions should be driven to find better solutions and that gives satisfaction. But they even more needs to rest their heads and keep the balance or they will simply burn out - not something obviously he cares, he simply will put new people there to get the seniors' knowledge before they get fired.
If people do not feel good in the work it is solely management fault, not people's fault for not being 'passionate'. And sure, modern slaves from east asia slums do not have much other options, thankfully in US/EU situation is at least a bit better...

You are a complete fool? Or an online troll? No one working there is making minimum wage.

 

[Todd Sauve]

You are a complete fool? Or an online troll? No one working there is making minimum wage.

But they will burn out working insane hours. Life is too short to be a slave to your employer. And if TSMC refuses to adapt to the way things are done in North America, then refund all the taxpayer incentives you took from the government and go back to Taiwan and hunker down for the communist Chinese invasion, with no further help from the Western world's defences. You are too smug and arrogant by half TSMC and it is time you got trimmed down to size. Remember that Chairman Xi has a nasty place reserved just for you and your lot in a "re-education camp" if you decide that greed is your only god.

 

[Lounds]

Wait til this CEO learns what unions are lol.

 

[Kam7r]

From our European POV, the "normal" work culture in the US is already Hell ... so if them, they're shocked by the Taiwanese one... imagine if TSMC build a Fab in Germany ... I'm gonna laugh so hard ahahah...

 

[BuckarooBonzaii]

Two different culture clashes and only time will tell to see how long TSMC will last here. But with everything being about money especially to our politicians they may find ways to keep TSMC here with some kind of deal.

 

[dalpilot]

A hot potato: The Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, or TSMC as it's better known, is the world's most valuable and biggest manufacturer of semiconductor chips. But it seems that working at the firm's US operations is a grueling, brutal experience, and that's making hiring new staff for its Arizona foundries difficult.

Fortune reports that TSMC's profile on Glassdoor, the platform where current and former employees anonymously review companies, doesn't paint a pretty picture of the tech giant's work culture. It had a mere 27% approval rating from 91 reviews. For comparison, Intel's approval rating is 85%, though that's from tens of thousands of reviews.

Some of the complaints include twelve-hour days, common weekend shifts, and a "brutal" work-life balance. One person wrote that they saw people sleep in the office for a month straight.

"TSMC is about obedience [and is] not ready for America," one engineer wrote in January. There are also complaints about poor training, stress, heavy workloads, and a militaristic atmosphere.

In December last year, TSCM announced it would be investing up to $40 billion in the building of two advanced chip fabs – using the 4nm and 3nm processes - in Arizona, making it one of the largest foreign investments in US history, and something China isn't happy about. TSMC says it will hire 4,500 new workers to support the two plants, but the harsh working culture, rigid standards, and a required training period of up to 18 months in Taiwan are making filling all those positions challenging.

TSMC CEO Mark Liu thinks American workers have it easier than those in Taiwan

Focus Taiwan (via Tom's Hardware) reports that TSCM chairman Mark Liu responded to the Fortune article by saying that the company does not ask US employees to conform to the same work culture standards as those observed in Taiwan, suggesting that American employees have it easier than those in the Asian nation. He may be right: Fortune spoke to one American TSMC worker in Taiwan who said employees often do overtime to finish their workloads but are afraid to ask to be paid for it.

Liu added that anyone unwilling to take shifts should not enter the semiconductor industry, and even then, they should only do so if they have a passion for the work rather than a desire for lucrative wages.

Since the Fortune report was published, TSMC's Glassdoor approval rating has increased to 59%, though that's still not great compared to the likes of Intel.

Last month brought news that the extra expenses associated with setting up chip factories in the US compared to doing the same in Asia could see TSMC chips made in America cost 30% more than those manufactured in Taiwan.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/99008-tsmc-extreme-work-culture-affecting-us-hiring-ceo.html

Actually, this is an expected additional cost for more secure supply chains since the pandemic with "Friendshoring" or in this case "Onshoring". So, it should not be a surprise that adhering to US norms of labor cost and working conditions and also increased costs of US Labor to build the Fabs. Also must factor in the additional costs (not included in the Chips Act but added by the Labor Department) of providing child care facilities and maternity/paternity leave benefits and union labor greatly inflates costs of construction and operating costs well above Taiwanese. If the overall cost of Chips build here (whether Intel in Ohio, TSMC in Arizona, or Samsung in Texas) is only 30% then for national security and secure supply lines that is a nominal cost of doing business. I suspect these companies will sue Biden admin over "additional requirements" not in the Chips act.

 

[shark975]

"Last month brought news that the extra expenses associated with setting up chip factories in the US compared to doing the same in Asia could see TSMC chips made in America cost 30% more than those manufactured in Taiwan."

Wow who knew environmentalists banning factories in the USA could drive them all to China.

Then the gigantic US govt and Biden decide by dictator fiat we want a few back, so we pay billions of inefficient taxpayers dollars to build them as well as suspend the environmental regulations for this plant and lithium mining because the left approves, rather than organic investment because the USA is actually a good place to do business.

All that and it's not going to work. 30% more means these dont have a chance in any free market.

but dont worry, billions of your middle class tax dollars are lining the ultra wealthy tmsc ceo's pocket. aint socialism grand.

 

[trieste1s]

Just goes to show you that the cultures don't mix well. In essence, it sounds, to me, like the TSMC CEO is saying "I don't understand why American's don't want to work themselves to death like Chinese citizens do."

My advice to the CEO is that they ought to give their Chinese workers conditions like the Americans want. They might do even better as a company if they did that - not to mention, stop worrying about lining your own pockets with the fruits of the sweat of your workers. Have some respect for them, and stop treating them like drug mules. Not that he is going to listen, much less understand.

It's either "American" and "Taiwanese", or "Caucasian" and "Chinese".
Are you referring to nationality or "racial" group?

 

[sorten]

Wow who knew environmentalists banning factories in the USA could drive them all to China.

Then the gigantic US govt and Biden decide by dictator fiat we want a few back, so we pay billions of inefficient taxpayers dollars to build them as well as suspend the environmental regulations for this plant and lithium mining because the left approves, rather than organic investment because the USA is actually a good place to do business.

All that and it's not going to work. 30% more means these dont have a chance in any free market.

but dont worry, billions of your dollars are lining the tmsc ceo's pocket. aint socialism grand.

Environmentalists didn't ban anything. American corporation CEOs and board members decided to move manufacturing to China, India, and other low wage countries to increase profits. That's a feature of Capitalism rather than Socialism.

The CHIPs Act was supported by Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate. Not by "dictator fiat".

During the pandemic, Americans finally realized the cost of offshoring most of our manufacturing. And that realization is being reinforced as the west struggles to ramp up manufacturing to support Ukraine in the war. Now we're stuck trying to fix the problems caused by greed.

 

[bandit8623]

At least in my area, most Asian restaurants are owned and run by the family. For most Americans working in restaurants they're under paid and have no stake or incentive for making the business successful.

In the US we have a culture where the employees don't matter, everyone is replaceable and people just aren't willing to give up their lives for someone who doesn't care about them. I've had bosses who if they quit to start a business I'd follow them, I've also had bosses who cared so little about me that I quit.

I have feeling that the US is going through a bit of a workers rights renaissance. Employers are literally insulting potential prospects because they want things like "don't call me off the clock" and "This task doesn't require me to be at the office, I don't want to come in." While TSMC may not be a saint, they are starting a business in the US at a time when employees and employers are fighting with each other about better wages, better hours and a better work/life balance.

its been this way for over 200 years... but people are more and more entitled... to do basic work you shouldnt be paid 20$ and hour....sorry...thats reserved for people that put in the time or degree.