TSMC's extreme work culture is putting off US workers, CEO says employees should have...

[scavengerspc]

I think you're proving my point. Many people in those factories work in packaging, or supplying materials from trucks, they earn as little as possible. And engineers after years of study do not earn well in relation to the cost of living (paying back students loans I.e.) and don't have much money either...
And if that person have no to little education, some family to sustain, and works so much he cant even thing about anything else except some rest and just peace of mind - those people really rarely quits as this will potentially put their family at risk, and often, when they do actually quit and find other job very often the new job will be similar quality as old one and they going to repeat all that yet again.

And yet, all those people are free to go and work elsewhere if they please.

Problem is, your point can't be proven. TSMC has their standards. They are crap standards, but they are just as free to decide what they want from a worker as the worker is to decide to go elsewhere.

Please, lay off the slavery crap until you can grasp what you are saying.

 

[MaxSmarties]

This tells me that western working culture is poor and decaying…

 

[MaxSmarties]

Just goes to show you that the cultures don't mix well. In essence, it sounds, to me, like the TSMC CEO is saying "I don't understand why American's don't want to work themselves to death like Chinese citizens do."

My advice to the CEO is that they ought to give their Chinese workers conditions like the Americans want. They might do even better as a company if they did that - not to mention, stop worrying about lining your own pockets with the fruits of the sweat of your workers. Have some respect for them, and stop treating them like drug mules. Not that he is going to listen, much less understand.

Are you aware Taiwan is NOT China ?

 

[hahahanoobs]

Why is that shocking? Even before factoring in the additional costs of running a business in America, higher wages are going to lead to higher prices for goods. That's why the entire last 50 years of Western economic policy has been built around outsourcing production of goods, in order to lower costs and keep inflation under control.

Everyone wants "Made In America". But oddly, no one wants to pay the price hit that comes along with it.

Relax. Crysis adverted.
TSMC is not manufacturing sub 3nm in the US. Whew!

 

[hahahanoobs]

The thing is, if China gets a wild hair up their *** chip costs might go up more than 30%. Having fabrication capabilities in the US will ensure that we are not held hostage by the likes of China. Everyone always talks about not buying foreign products, to buy American to protect the American worker, to protest the human rights violations committed by China. But, when they get to the store what do they do; buy the cheapest product that fulfills their needs.

US loves money too much. China isn't going anywhere.

 

[xpwjintel]

Talk to any one in the tech industries in Taiwan and they'll tell you TSMC's biggest advantage over the other competitor is not the technology patent, is not the management, is not the years of experiences of making chips, and it's certainly not the ridiculous amount of profit they've acquired over the years. The biggest advantage TSMC have over the other competitors are the workers and cooperate culture it has imbued within the whole company from top all the way down. This is why TSMC will only work the way it is in Taiwan. They can build new fab or satellite offices in other countries but it will never be the same nor will it match the production level anywhere close to the ones in Taiwan. Also to clarify, according to them, this isn't something they are proud of either LOL.

 

[waclark]

Relax. Crysis adverted.
TSMC is not manufacturing sub 3nm in the US. Whew!

Not so fast there cowboy...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/business/taiwan-tsmc-arizona-plant-hnk-intl/index.html

 

[waclark]

US loves money too much. China isn't going anywhere.

China may not be going anywhere, but that doesn't mean they won't put the screws to the US, given the chance. And, if we get into a shooting war over Taiwan then hold on to your old iPhones because you won't see them for a while. It's aways good to have advanced manufacturing capabilities.

 

[maxxcool7421]

There's a difference between having a passion for your job and expecting someone to make the job their entire life.

Kinda sounds like Elon don't he ..

 

[maxxcool7421]

The thing is, if China gets a wild hair up their *** chip costs might go up more than 30%. Having fabrication capabilities in the US will ensure that we are not held hostage by the likes of China. Everyone always talks about not buying foreign products, to buy American to protect the American worker, to protest the human rights violations committed by China. But, when they get to the store what do they do; buy the cheapest product that fulfills their needs.

Except currently China supplies 90+% of all cpu-grade silicon .. sooooo they can hose us any time they like regardless of 'fab capacity' because all the magic sand comes from them .. and all the magic neon gas comes from russia and without either there is not enough cpu-grade silicon or neon production capacity in the rest of the entire world to offset a complete collapse of cpu/gpu/silicon processing based production.

Google "statistica silicon production by country"
Google "statistica neon production by country"
Goolge "hackaday mining-and-refining-pure-silicon-and-the-incredible-effort-it-takes-to-get-there"

If russia and china decide they can survive the economic disaster of stopping supplies to 'western aligned' countries it is game over

 

[hahahanoobs]

Not so fast there cowboy...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/business/taiwan-tsmc-arizona-plant-hnk-intl/index.html

I said sub 3nm....
Google it.

 

[hahahanoobs]

China may not be going anywhere, but that doesn't mean they won't put the screws to the US, given the chance. And, if we get into a shooting war over Taiwan then hold on to your old iPhones because you won't see them for a while. It's aways good to have advanced manufacturing capabilities.

Then it won't matter to anyone. Nothing to talk about.
But until then....

 

[waclark]

I said sub 3nm....
Google it.

Who is producing sub-3nm anywhere?

 

[hahahanoobs]

Who is producing sub-3nm anywhere?

Don't worry about it. US-based TSMC fabs ain't getting it.
And 3nm chips that will be in the CPU's and GPU's we buy won't come from US-based TSMC fabs either.

In fact, TSMC founder Morris Chang had repeatedly stressed that the US efforts to increase onshore manufacturing of semiconductors is wasteful and an expensive exercise in futility due to a lack of manufacturing talent and extremely high costs. He also noted that the cost of producing the same chip product in the US is 50% higher than in Taiwan, and no reason can be found for maintaining viable production in America.

Nevertheless, apparently bowing to geopolitical pressure from the US, TSMC had earlier announced volume production of its 5nm chips at the Arizona fab set to start in 2024 will be upgraded to 4nm chips, and it is also proceeding with second-phase construction at the same manufacturing complex, which is scheduled to commercialize 3nm chip production in 2026. Its total investments in both phases are estimated to top US$40 billion, marking the largest-ever direct foreign investment project.

Industry observers said that apart from fulfilling orders from the US government for military defense and other specific chip demands, TSMC will have to start to adjust taking orders from American customers and maintain a regular capacity utilization of at least 70-80% to avoid a serious drag on its overall profitability. The foundry will inevitably face the challenge of how to persuade clients to share part of its huge construction and manufacturing cost increases for the US plant.

 

[waclark]

Except currently China supplies 90+% of all cpu-grade silicon .. sooooo they can hose us any time they like regardless of 'fab capacity' because all the magic sand comes from them .. and all the magic neon gas comes from russia and without either there is not enough cpu-grade silicon or neon production capacity in the rest of the entire world to offset a complete collapse of cpu/gpu/silicon processing based production.

Google "statistica silicon production by country"
Google "statistica neon production by country"
Goolge "hackaday mining-and-refining-pure-silicon-and-the-incredible-effort-it-takes-to-get-there"

If russia and china decide they can survive the economic disaster of stopping supplies to 'western aligned' countries it is game over

It doesn't change the necessity to have our own manufacturing capability. Per Google, 70% of neon comes from the Ukraine, not Russia. Also, Neon is apparently abundant in space, whereas it's rarer on Earth. Hence, why we might want to ensure we have space mining capability as well. The fact that we have allowed ourselves to become dependent upon hostile foreign governments for critical components is just a sad testament to the failure of our government (over many years).

 

[waclark]

Don't worry about it. US-based TSMC fabs ain't getting it.
And 3nm chips that will be in the CPU's and GPU's we buy won't come from US-based TSMC fabs either.

In fact, TSMC founder Morris Chang had repeatedly stressed that the US efforts to increase onshore manufacturing of semiconductors is wasteful and an expensive exercise in futility due to a lack of manufacturing talent and extremely high costs. He also noted that the cost of producing the same chip product in the US is 50% higher than in Taiwan, and no reason can be found for maintaining viable production in America.

Nevertheless, apparently bowing to geopolitical pressure from the US, TSMC had earlier announced volume production of its 5nm chips at the Arizona fab set to start in 2024 will be upgraded to 4nm chips, and it is also proceeding with second-phase construction at the same manufacturing complex, which is scheduled to commercialize 3nm chip production in 2026. Its total investments in both phases are estimated to top US$40 billion, marking the largest-ever direct foreign investment project.

Industry observers said that apart from fulfilling orders from the US government for military defense and other specific chip demands, TSMC will have to start to adjust taking orders from American customers and maintain a regular capacity utilization of at least 70-80% to avoid a serious drag on its overall profitability. The foundry will inevitably face the challenge of how to persuade clients to share part of its huge construction and manufacturing cost increases for the US plant.

The point being, no one has it now, so your comment is moot.

 

[Gastec]

It is not the CCP that rules Taiwan, which is where TSMC is from.

If you want to be an ally of freedom, then act like it and start by Googling some every essential facts about the East Asian theater of politics and culture.

And yes, apparently I know enough about the USA to use "freedom" as a trigger word to get people to shape up a lil' in their geopolitical knowledge, or maybe not, heh.

Please! I know where and what Taiwan is, I'm not Amurikan, I'm European. But those "work culture standards" are abominations coming out of China.

 

[hahahanoobs]

The point being, no one has it now, so your comment is moot.

Point being US-based TSMC fabs aren't getting TSMC's best stuff. 3nm products we would be buying will continue to come from Tawain. There is too much uncertainty with those fabs. Nvidia claims interest, but it's all cloudy. And only Nvidia so far. Too many pieces of the puzzle have to fit to make that a possibility, but mainly total cost.

Best case scenario, you're not getting any 3nm products from US-based TSMC fabs until 2026 if at all for Client and Gaming assuming Nvidia and AMD haven't moved on, or soon to.

 

[bandit8623]

I don't directly use my degree in my field but I make significantly more than $20/hr

u proved my point. you do have a degree though and it shows. u clearly can be dedicated enough to try and focus. now can others that dont have a degree do the same ? sure.. just helps weed out people. know too manyb people that think they should be making top dollar in 6 months when they know nothing..... like just showing up for work is knowledge. although these days getting people to show up for work is a challenge