R00sT3R
Posts: 805 +2,478
Funniest thing is, men who like to virtue signal their feminism credentials are only doing it in the hope of getting laid more.
Two outspoken feminists have left League of Legends developer Riot
- Thread starter mongeese
- Start date
All these comments say more about the commenters than the people mentioned in the article.
The internet really is a place used to unload one's frustrations...
BTW you realize the word "fan" comes from fanatic?
The internet really is a place used to unload one's frustrations...
BTW you realize the word "fan" comes from fanatic?
alabama man
Posts: 563 +355
"Two outspoken feminists have left League of Legends developer Riot"
If they left on their own where's the problem? Or were they fired for doing stuff they were told not to do? Why are you trying to make them look like heroes when they are just employees who got fired for sabotaging their employers reputation? They just wanted fame and you sure seem eager to give them that, you even go so far as wishing them luck "Whether or not they took it too far, I sincerely commend Klein and Lehman for standing up so strongly for what they believe in and hope they find success at another game studio.". Why do you want them to get a new job when they clearly were bad employees? Do you get paid by them? Are you part of their new games studio? Or are you just pro SJW? Either way I hope this wont turn into Kotaku and half of the articles turn to SJW bullshit instead of tech and gaming news, if I wanted politics I would watch the news from TV....
If they left on their own where's the problem? Or were they fired for doing stuff they were told not to do? Why are you trying to make them look like heroes when they are just employees who got fired for sabotaging their employers reputation? They just wanted fame and you sure seem eager to give them that, you even go so far as wishing them luck "Whether or not they took it too far, I sincerely commend Klein and Lehman for standing up so strongly for what they believe in and hope they find success at another game studio.". Why do you want them to get a new job when they clearly were bad employees? Do you get paid by them? Are you part of their new games studio? Or are you just pro SJW? Either way I hope this wont turn into Kotaku and half of the articles turn to SJW bullshit instead of tech and gaming news, if I wanted politics I would watch the news from TV....
fps4ever
Posts: 1,149 +1,899
I see the feminist/women comments on here saying we make their point because us "guys" don't understand. How ironic. The fact is us "guys" all agree on the culture at Riot that needs to change. Heck you can say that about a lot of the gaming industry. It's the hypocrisy displayed with the social justice warrior's push back. Never double down on stupid. Maybe these two feminists can sue Riot now for not letting them fight intolerance and hate with their own intolerance and hate. If you can't see the stupid in that then that's on you.
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Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,590 +5,220
You might want to do some research....https://www.geekwire.com/2013/gaming-report-12-billion-people-playing-games-worldwide/
While there are more males playing games, 44% of gamers are female.... and that was 5 years ago! It gets closer to 50/50 every year...
It’s the ignorant, sexist folk who simply assume that gamers are mostly male
D
davislane1
The video is about being dishonest.
You might want to do some research....https://www.geekwire.com/2013/gaming-report-12-billion-people-playing-games-worldwide/
While there are more males playing games, 44% of gamers are female.... and that was 5 years ago! It gets closer to 50/50 every year...
It’s the ignorant, sexist folk who simply assume that gamers are mostly male
Gamers are mostly male, per the statistics you listed. 54% > 46%. The 44% is the total number of gamers worldwide, including both genders and all ages.
Moreover, males are the primary customers for all major genres other than basic-tier mobile games (https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/):
Facts aren't sexist. Telling men they're bad and they need to change because women have differing interests is.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,590 +5,220
My point was that gamers are not dominately male...54-46 percent is pretty close - and it gets closer to 50-50 every year...The video is about being dishonest.
Gamers are mostly male, per the statistics you listed. 54% > 46%. The 44% is the total number of gamers worldwide, including both genders and all ages.
Moreover, males are the primary customers for all major genres other than basic-tier mobile games (https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/):
Facts aren't sexist. Telling men they're bad and they need to change because women have differing interests is.
Find me a gaming company where 46% of it’s employees are female... hmmmmm....
D
davislane1
Your point is factually incorrect. There is no statistic that shows males aren't the predominant market. What you feel is "pretty close" doesn't change what is demonstrably a significant difference, both in total and even more so across the genres.
Invalid metric. You're assuming that women who play games are also committed to developing them. This is every bit as dishonest as the feeling that STEM fields are hostile to women because more women go to college than men but somehow wind up with fewer STEM degrees.
It's the most blatantly sexist thing possible and, frankly, disgusting. Not only is it dishonest, it deligitimizes female decision-making as a whole and attempts to corral them like cattle to satisfy arbitrary statistical quotas.
fps4ever
Posts: 1,149 +1,899
You might want to do some research....https://www.geekwire.com/2013/gaming-report-12-billion-people-playing-games-worldwide/
While there are more males playing games, 44% of gamers are female.... and that was 5 years ago! It gets closer to 50/50 every year...
It’s the ignorant, sexist folk who simply assume that gamers are mostly male
Maybe a lot of people are just misinformed. But hey why not up the hyperbole to ignorant and sexist folk to fit your argument. Hypocritical don't you think?
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,590 +5,220
Since when does 54% equate to DOMINATE?? Especially as the percentage drops every year!
And your assumption that women AREN'T interested in developing games.... That's just as dishonest.... It's opinions like this that are keeping women back in all sorts of fields.
Yes, women are under-represented in STEM fields... Is it because "they just don't like these fields"? Or is it because they are discouraged from taking science classes in school - a message that is all-pervasive in male-dominated societies. Despite being in the minority in these fields, almost all of these fields show INCREASES in the percentage of female participation - as society grows more accepting of treating women as equals, perhaps we'll see these percentages approach 50%...
https://engineerscanada.ca/diversity/women-in-engineering
Just an example, but we can see that while Canadian women make up only a small percentage of engineers, the number is growing! As we improve society and educate misinformed people about females, I suspect we'll see far more equality in just about every field...
Marie Curie is probably rolling over in her grave reading this thread...
Perfect response. You can't even have a discussion about these topics from a center, or right of center position without the WhiteKnights calling you sexist, racist, etc. Feminism in it's form today is cancer that is WAY more about man hating and pushing far left political ideology than women rights. It's why women are fleeing it in droves.
Countries with the highest levels of gender quality show fewer women in Stem fields. You need to rethink your position.
http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girls-3848156-Feb2018/
m4a4
Posts: 3,804 +5,431
The moment when you used a metric that lumped hardcore gamers and softcore gamers together, and liken them as the same is when your opinion on this topic became invalid.
Show me a metric that supports your claim where it compares males and females with hardcore video gaming (not facebook or casual mobile games) and we'll take you seriously. Because the top game companies that you're complaining about are making games with employees that love to play them. You know, where the majority of gamers in those categories are male (as @davislane1's metric points out).
Ps. Just because someone casually plays games doesn't mean that they want to make a career out of it, like you seem to want forced on the industry.
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D
davislane1
Since 54 was bigger than 46. See: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dominate and https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dominant
This is exactly the type of sexist, anti-woman BS I was talking about. In your world, women don't make their own choices. They're too fragile for that. Instead, they need the consent and encouragement of men to do things. They couldn't possibly be different in a statistically relevant way--they're just like you and me.
That's horrible.
maddogmcgee
Posts: 31 +43
Ac
Actually they are just like you or me. There is difference at a personal level of course between any two people but any difference in STEM participation at a macro level is obviously due to social factors...unless you are trying to argue women are genetically unsuitable for being scientists.
maddogmcgee
Posts: 31 +43
The problem with using terms like left and right is they are different from person to person and place to place and most people probably think of themselves as in the centre.
I tend to think the idea that there should be equal rights for men and women as the centre of politics and the rejection of it as right or far right.
Rather than use derogatory terms like white knights to denigrate those that disagree with you, why not except that we are having the discussion you said you wanted. A discussion where many people (almost everyone I have ever talked to) disagree with your opinion. Unless all you want is to find a corner of the internet where everyone agrees with your conservative attitude to gender equality so you can all agree with each other?
Can I just ask, has anyone here ever talked to actual women, personally, about why they didn't choose to go into a STEM field? Why does everyone seem to assume that because there are less women in STEM that there's some systemic obstruction in place that is preventing them from entering the field?
I'm the oldest child in my family and the only male in my family besides my dad. I have three younger sisters, all of which who play games and have been playing games since growing up in the days of NES, SNES and PS1. We still get together and play actual (not mobile) games regularly. Out of all of us, I'm the only one that went into a STEM field. One went to school to teach English, one to be a firefighter, and one for business. I ended up with a computer science degree.
Why didn't they enter a STEM field? It wasn't because they couldn't or were worried about any sort of barrier of entry. It wasn't because my parents pushed them in another direction. It was because they didn't want to. They wanted to pursue other areas of study and eventually careers.
In fact, I did my best to convince them to enter a STEM field. If you have to force someone into a field they don't want be in, would it not be better off for everyone if they were to instead pursue what they want to do, even if that doesn't "help" statistics?
If someone said to me, "you should go into nursing because it's a female dominated profession and there should be more male nurses," I would say no. That is not something I'm interested in at all. I would be miserable working as a nurse because that's just not what I want to do. It has nothing to do with being male or female or whatever. This shouldn't be a gender issue. It's a personal choice whether or not to go to college or whether or not to major in a STEM field and ultimately what career you decide you would like to pursue.
Now, if someone wants to do something and is actively discouraged from doing that, that's a different story. However, everyone I have talked with has simply said that STEM is not their area of interest. That's really all there is to it in most cases.
I'm the oldest child in my family and the only male in my family besides my dad. I have three younger sisters, all of which who play games and have been playing games since growing up in the days of NES, SNES and PS1. We still get together and play actual (not mobile) games regularly. Out of all of us, I'm the only one that went into a STEM field. One went to school to teach English, one to be a firefighter, and one for business. I ended up with a computer science degree.
Why didn't they enter a STEM field? It wasn't because they couldn't or were worried about any sort of barrier of entry. It wasn't because my parents pushed them in another direction. It was because they didn't want to. They wanted to pursue other areas of study and eventually careers.
In fact, I did my best to convince them to enter a STEM field. If you have to force someone into a field they don't want be in, would it not be better off for everyone if they were to instead pursue what they want to do, even if that doesn't "help" statistics?
If someone said to me, "you should go into nursing because it's a female dominated profession and there should be more male nurses," I would say no. That is not something I'm interested in at all. I would be miserable working as a nurse because that's just not what I want to do. It has nothing to do with being male or female or whatever. This shouldn't be a gender issue. It's a personal choice whether or not to go to college or whether or not to major in a STEM field and ultimately what career you decide you would like to pursue.
Now, if someone wants to do something and is actively discouraged from doing that, that's a different story. However, everyone I have talked with has simply said that STEM is not their area of interest. That's really all there is to it in most cases.
lumbeeman
Posts: 34 +37
BAM!!! I couldn't agree more. It is mostly (not always) a feeble attempt at getting laid. White-knighting at its "best"
maddogmcgee
Posts: 31 +43
Not arguing on an individual level. People should do what makes them happy of course.
I run a tuition centre and the vast majority of girls need help with maths and the vast majority of boys need help with literacy (to a degree that shocked me when I started). Unless you believe this is genetic, something else is going on. Now this should not really matter until you consider the fact that most of the higher paying fields are STEM. So whatever factors influencing women also lead them to make less money on average. The solution is obviously not to force women to science and men to teach/nurse. I have seen women only STEM programs run in high schools to try and encourage women to take an interest at a young age. I don't think the fact boys are not invited to these programs makes them sexist.
Management in most fields/workplaces is still male dominated (even if areas like primary school teaching where most employees are actually female). When you combine a male dominated field like game development with an even more male dominated management culture it is very easy to create a work environment where women are not treated equally. Now getting back to the individual level, this is where it would be easy for an individual woman who has chosen to work in a male dominated field can become upset. They view themselves as working harder and smarter for less pay and a lower chance of promotion. This is bad for the company as they lose talent and for the person who becomes frustrated with their job. The best example I can think of is Uber that has faced serious issues due to the workplace culture created.
Now there are no total solutions and there will always be some inequity in the real world BUT to attack people who actively try to address these issues like some posters have only makes things worse.
I suppose it could be possible if the original presenter did a piss poor job at presenting the idea.
I'm fine with equal rights, but what part of segregating by gender to give particular groups an advantage considered equality? You can broad sweep that management is mostly male. Okay. You talk men. Talk man. The guy just out of school that no longer has an opportunity to get his foot in the door because company policy wants more women. Qualifications be damned. That's not equality.
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
I suppose it could be possible if the second presenter had them all horny they still wouldn't have paid attention to the idea.
Danny101
Posts: 2,035 +842
Feminists are ugly and slutty women who are trying to change men into something attractive women are not attracted to. Maybe it's because they're in bed with population control ideologs. Look at what they support. LGBTQ is a population control mecca of the weird. The have a very developed abortion fetish. Maybe the birth control pills are simply screwing up their biology and their thinking. Got women so whacked in the head that a lot of men are simply electing to go MGTOW just to avoid the drama, have a piece of mind, and keep a full wallet. Not a man on earth is trying to change women as difficult to deal with as they are.. We fuss about them but understand that they are par for the course. Men win games through skill and strength. Women win through manipulation. It's just like a woman to use every seductive technique in her toolbox and when a man responds commences to shaming and then wonder why men won't take her seriously. Asking for or demanding respect is one thing, but behaving in a manipulative manner will derail it every time. Gathering up history and dumping it on the present isn't progress. It's just vengeance and it's on people who are far removed from it.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,590 +5,220
Wow.... just.... wow... and with that, I think I’m finished with this thread...
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