Weekend Open Forum: What's your take on the Xbox Scorpio and PlayStation Neo?

[midian182]

Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the last few months, you’ll probably know about the upcoming consoles from Microsoft (Project Scorpio) and Sony (Neo/PS4.5). A lot has been made about these mid-cycle hardware upgrades and their ability to handle 4K content, but will they turn out to be the dream machines the companies claim?

While Microsoft hasn’t revealed all of the Scorpio’s specs, it says that the console’s eight CPU cores, six teraflops of processing power, and over 320GB/s memory bandwidth will make it the “most powerful console ever,” able to handle native 4K gaming at 60fps.

Sony’s Neo, meanwhile, will reportedly also come with an eight-core CPU but be closer to the 4.14 teraflop mark. It’s still not clear how the Neo will handle 4K, but with less power and a lower price mark than the Scorpio, it’s suspected that its 4K content will only come in the form of video playback and the UI.

For this weekend open forum, we want to know your opinion on these two consoles. What do you think their 4K capabilities will be? Could the possible lack of exclusive titles affect their success? Is 4K the absolute pinnacle of gaming, or would the consoles' resources be better used in other ways? And would you consider buying one if the price was right?

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/65602-take-xbox-scorpio-playstation-neo.html

 

[alabama man]

"What do you think their 4K capabilities will be? Could the possible lack of exclusive titles affect their success? Is 4K the absolute pinnacle of gaming, or would the consoles' resources be better used in other ways? And would you consider buying one if the price was right?"

4K capability will be limited to upscaling and as most 4k tv's have horrible input lag I would rather stay 60fps 1080p until 4k is cheaper and better. Exclusives wouldn't hurt as most games are cheaper and better on pc but if you mean neo and scorpio exclusives they would divide the market. 4k is too small of a market to focus on and I personally think they should focus on something else. If neo is cheap enough (300$) I would buy it to play bloodborne with 60fps.

 

[GeforcerFX]

Xbone s will sit at $200-$250
Original ps4 will be at $250 or gone
Ps4 neo $400
Xbone Scorpio $500-$600

 

[VitalyT]

What's up with Sony? Have they signed up Keanu Reeves to flog their new play-station? I think NOT.

 

[Burty117]

I still think it's a bit early to be releasing new, higher spec'ed consoles.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all up for progression. I primarily game on the PC but I've always had a console under my TV. PS2, Xbox360 and now PS4.

It just feels a bit "early" to be changing it. As if I haven't really had enough play time from the PS4. I do only use it for exclusives to be fair but compared to the 360 and PS2. I've used the PS4 about a third of the play time.

 

[EClyde]

I live under my rock. Consoles are not for me

 

[hahahanoobs]

I'm still trying to figure out how consoles are going 4K when they struggle with 1080p. Consoles are great though, and I'm excited to see what happens.

 

[OcelotRex]

I'm still trying to figure out how consoles are going 4K when they struggle with 1080p. Consoles are great though, and I'm excited to see what happens.

My guess is that it will be achieved in the same way that the 360 and PS3 achieved 1080p - upscaling.

If "Scorpio's" specs are close to being accurate then it should be able to handle 1440p (perhaps larger resolution with dynamic scaling) that can be upscaled to "4k" TVs and look better than 1080p.

The biggest benefit for both should be 1080p 60fps with extra goodies enabled. Also a type of downsampling (called Ordered Grid Super Sampling Anti-Aliasing I think) could render higher resolutions than 1080p and display them on a 1080p screen. This would use the extra resources of the machine to make a better image than 1080p with traditional AA enabled.

 

[Uncle Al]

I'm living under the one that is living under a rock. Plopping you hard earned cash for a console just sound like a smart idea, especially when you consider how many of those $50 and up games you have to buy .... but what the heck, there are a lot of people out there with unlimited cash to throw away, so have at it!

 

[risc32]

I'm still trying to figure out how consoles are going 4K when they struggle with 1080p. Consoles are great though, and I'm excited to see what happens.

yup, anyone think this hardware horsepower increase will really make these systems 4x as powerful? I mean, 4k is 4x 1080, and the current hardware isn't exactly owning 1080, so.....
plus it's too early, and frankly without exclusives(that just means they will program for the lowest tier, the old ps4) and something along the lines of 8-10x more power than what we have, I'm 100% sitting this one out. even then, I'd be pissed at the short lifespan of the ps4 and think about weening my kids and myself entirely off consoles. there are some pretty good pc options out there, and my pc does all sorts of other useful things besides gaming.
AFAIC, when the console makers decided to just use x86 pc components, they lost one of the two best things they had going for them. the ability to make weird quirky systems that could perform amazing feats if coded correctly. now they are just low powered PCs. you will now always be able to go out and roll your own far more powerful system.

 

[yukka]

I think it's great. I can't wait to play all my digital purchases on a better version of my current console. And I'll move my current one into a second room. Awesome.

 

[Evernessince]

I'm still trying to figure out how consoles are going 4K when they struggle with 1080p. Consoles are great though, and I'm excited to see what happens.

yup, anyone think this hardware horsepower increase will really make these systems 4x as powerful? I mean, 4k is 4x 1080, and the current hardware isn't exactly owning 1080, so.....
plus it's too early, and frankly without exclusives(that just means they will program for the lowest tier, the old ps4) and something along the lines of 8-10x more power than what we have, I'm 100% sitting this one out. even then, I'd be pissed at the short lifespan of the ps4 and think about weening my kids and myself entirely off consoles. there are some pretty good pc options out there, and my pc does all sorts of other useful things besides gaming.
AFAIC, when the console makers decided to just use x86 pc components, they lost one of the two best things they had going for them. the ability to make weird quirky systems that could perform amazing feats if coded correctly. now they are just low powered PCs. you will now always be able to go out and roll your own far more powerful system.

Unfortunately power doesn't scale up linearly. The PS4, the more powerful of the next gen consoles, will be around an RX 480. I expect next gen consoles to do 1440p at best.

Releasing next gen consoles so quickly is going to alienate people who bought Xbox Ones and PS4s. Devs are either going to have to double testing because they now have two consoles to deal with or only target one.

 

[lripplinger]

Ummm. I really don't give two figs about "game consoles" to begin with.

 

[Tekkaraiden]

It's what they should have released in 2013.

 

[oldikes]

I'm still trying to figure out how consoles are going 4K when they struggle with 1080p. Consoles are great though, and I'm excited to see what happens.

My guess is that it will be achieved in the same way that the 360 and PS3 achieved 1080p - upscaling.

If "Scorpio's" specs are close to being accurate then it should be able to handle 1440p (perhaps larger resolution with dynamic scaling) that can be upscaled to "4k" TVs and look better than 1080p.

The biggest benefit for both should be 1080p 60fps with extra goodies enabled. Also a type of downsampling (called Ordered Grid Super Sampling Anti-Aliasing I think) could render higher resolutions than 1080p and display them on a 1080p screen. This would use the extra resources of the machine to make a better image than 1080p with traditional AA enabled.

Teraflops are literally the only number officially announced for Scorpio

And it won't be up scaling acordding to every official statement on the matter. They designed the console specifically for 4K without considering developers wanting to add other graphical enhancements. They will give devs the option for lower res + up scaling +better graphics elsewhere

 

[Lionvibez]

It's what they should have released in 2013.

I highly doubt that would have been possible in 2013 without double the heat output and double the price.

Were you going to pay $800 for a PS4?

 

[Jack007]

This is severely underpowered compared to my core i7 3770k custom rig. I never did like consoles

 

[toooooot]

I don't own a console. But I would like one for FIFA series which has always been terrible to play UT on PC. I refuse to have a device that requires a subscription. I already pay for internet, games and consoles aren't free either. It looks like these days every company wants to do one thing: subscription service. I can list a hundred things I would like to buy before I pay a console subscription (hint, I dont have those things yet ). So, only one game I would want a console for isn't enough to buy one or care about it.

 

[CortyDK]

Can't really see the point with consoles. Besides playing games and the odd movie, they are as useful as bricks..

Tried a PS2 once, bought it second hand including 10 games for about 30$, used it 2 times, realised games looked and felt better with keyboard/mouse that with a controller. I gave the PS2 with games to one ouf our local charity organizations.

Perhaps some refugee family could use it.

So I too am living under a rock, albeit it is equipped with a Skylake CPU

 

[yukka]

The subscription service point is interesting. You get 48 games a year included in the Xbox Live sub and you can pay less than £3 a month if you shop around. You keep the games if you cancel too

 

[Faelan]

Changes nothing where I'm concerned. I'm a PC gamer. I've lost track of the amount of money that I've poured into that system. Let's just say that I got the HTC Vive hooked up to it and it runs it like a champ for the most part. I spend most of my time playing games and what not. I'm a hardcore Gamer. But consoles? No interest.

It's not because I want to look down at the console plebs while beating my chest and proclaiming myself a member of the master race. No. Couldn't care less. That whole concept is just silly. It's simply because the majority of console games do not interest me and the majority of games that do, are either PC only or better on the PC. I simply go where the games I want can be found and I'm willing to spend most of my disposable money on something that I spend most of my free time on. I don't see the new consoles changing that in any meaningful way. I kinda wish it was the other way around though. Would be a hell of a lot cheaper if I could live with just a console!

 

[Zenodroid]

Im going for the new nintendo mini plz be nov the 11th tomorrow ?

 

[CrisisDog]

Don't care about 4k gaming, only got 1080p televisions at my house. I'd be happy if these new consoles could do better than my home built "Steam Machine" running on a GTX 970; the current generation doesn't come close. Because of the fact that some titles are not available through Steam (Halo, Gears, Destiny), is one reason I have a console in the first place. Dedicated Netflix / Hulu apps for Windows 7 would give me less reason to fire up the console too. It's a pain to surf the sites in a browser from the couch, easier to just use a console for those.

 

[BSim500]

While Microsoft hasn’t revealed all of the Scorpio’s specs, it says that the console’s eight CPU cores, six teraflops of processing power, and over 320GB/s memory bandwidth will make it the “most powerful console ever,” able to handle native 4K gaming at 60fps.

Real-world translation:-

1. Given how XB1/PS4 were initially marketed as 1080p consoles and ended up 720-900p, the so called "4K console" will end up chugging along at 4k 30fps with 15-20fps slowdowns whilst everyone is still screaming they prefer smoother 1080-1440p/60fps gameplay. And this is precisely why I don't own a console - a super-sharp slide-show is not "better" than sharp silky smooth gameplay in actual practise away from static screenshots.

2. The moment a games console eventually consistently manages to do 60fps (finally catching up to decades old 50Hz PAL / 60Hz NTSC cartridge based consoles), is the same moment we'll stop seeing lame "No-one can see anything above 30fps" 'debates' in console gaming forums.

3. If it's backwards compatible with existing consoles, it means two lots of testing. At which point, given x86 consoles already need their games installing & patching like a PC, that console owners take a screwdriver, open up the case to upgrade their HDD to an SSD like a PC, and now the games will come with multiple resolution versions designed for different hardware variations like a PC, means we can stop pretending modern x86 "consoles" are anything other than keyboard & mouse-less "Steambox" PC's (but with more Sony / MS platform lock-in...)

 

[OcelotRex]

Teraflops are literally the only number officially announced for Scorpio

And it won't be up scaling acordding to every official statement on the matter. They designed the console specifically for 4K without considering developers wanting to add other graphical enhancements. They will give devs the option for lower res + up scaling +better graphics elsewhere

During the official announcement 6 TFLPs was a big point but also they confirmed another 8 core CPU and 320 GB/s memory bandwidth. I think those are official numbers.

- Jump to 3:00 minutes for the announcement.

There's a lot of exciting terms in that video but none that confirm 4k 60fps. "4k gaming," "True 4k resolution," "True 4k Gaming" and "high fidelity VR" sit beside the statements of "fully uncompressed pixels" and "highest quality pixels."

Other outlets have looked at what's official and taken a more educated guess than mine and come to the same conculsion: 4k 60 fps on the more powerful Scorpio will require compromises if it is possible at all. More likely there will be dynamic scaling or sacrifices made.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/xbox-project-scorpio-hardware-specs-can-it-do-4k/

I'd go further and say anything close to 4k will remain targeted at 30fps. Like with PS4 and Xbox1's target of 1080p 60 FPS I don't think either new console has a prayer to deliver 4k 60 fps.