Who Believes in aliens??

[pcaceit]

HAIL Vigilante....

open minded is good as you say.

that explaination using terms like "imposible for such object to exist" (ie the one i discribed as being infinately solid) lacked open mindedness regardless of 300 years of science.
and only leads me to say that the good scientist would really expect us to unquestionably accept (by his explaination that emplies that at atomis level there is actually never a physical contact between objects so therefore nothing is actually in contact but merely held together by force???????

Man i know that i actually touch things and not just hover at micro or nano metres away form things. Yeah vigiliante i think that the Person who claimed to be an Alien at least showed that we do go around blind to things because they are explained with models that work out mathematically and we accept until science comes up with another theory like STRING Theory to explain the iffy and questionable conclusions that are drawn.. Go Vigilante

There are things that are ALIEN even if ALIENS EXIST or not.

 

[Vigilante]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, agreeing with me, or making fun of me. But that's ok

If you want a good example, and a brain teaser, of how "solids" can interact. Watch this video and try to figure out how it's done. Amazing.
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/10488/Glass_Table_Illusion_extended.html

And if that isn't enough, try this one:
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/4422/Chris_Angel_walks_through_glass.html

 

[Fenunn]

Aleiens

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!way maybe in future but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[hewybo]

confused

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!way maybe in future but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Does this mean you don't think there are aliens now, but there may be some in the future?

 

[pcaceit]

No no no no

not making fun or been sarchy.

Your Comments are well agreed with.

I'm even thinking of making some sweeping statements myself and asking for a poll on ARE WE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY SCIENCE

(Quote, "I am not a conspiracy theorist")

Ohh....Just for the hell of it (excuse the term) Going to Write some crap and attach it to my next posting. "I will probably be ridiculed by everyone"

 

[lithiumdeuterid]

(by his explaination that emplies that at atomis level there is actually never a physical contact between objects so therefore nothing is actually in contact but merely held together by force???????

Yes, everything is held together by forces. That's a fact. If you understand what a force is, the rest of it follows logically.

Man i know that i actually touch things and not just hover at micro or nano metres away form things.

No, you don't know that. You're just guessing, and obviously have never learned physics. The atoms that make up your flesh are surrounded by electron probability clouds. The clouds interact, and repel each other. They are not, however, "touching" in the classical sense. They are simply repelling due to the Coulomb force. Things are incomprehensibly different on the atomic scale than on the macroscopic scale. Everyday notions of position and contact do not apply on the atomic scale.

 

[toffeapple]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, agreeing with me, or making fun of me. But that's ok

If you want a good example, and a brain teaser, of how "solids" can interact. Watch this video and try to figure out how it's done. Amazing.
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/10488/Glass_Table_Illusion_extended.html

And if that isn't enough, try this one:
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/4422/Chris_Angel_walks_through_glass.html

That is the best trick i have ever seen simple but amamzing..how did he do it?

 

[Vigilante]

how did he do it?

I would have no idea, lol.
Either the visible audience is all "in on it", or the glass is faked somehow to begin with, if there is such a thing. Or these people call on evil spirits to help

Gone are the days of magic on a stage with smoke and mirrors. Magic today is right on the street, in your face. Unbelievable.

Perhaps LithiumDeuterid could better answer how these two supposed "solids" can bypass eachother. How bout it?

 

[hewybo]

Read the thread title!

That is the best trick i have ever seen simple but amamzing..how did he do it?

It's easily explained, and I'm surprised you guys can't see the obvious- THEM GUYS IS ALIENS!! They're the ones that gave Dr. Who his transmogrifier!

 

[CrossFire851]

Notice that the movie were in bad Quilty hmm me thinks

 

[Fenunn]

Aliens

Yeh, I think there might

 

[pcaceit]

Yes, everything is held together by forces. That's a fact. If you understand what a force is, the rest of it follows logically.

No, you don't know that. You're just guessing, and obviously have never learned physics. The atoms that make up your flesh are surrounded by electron probability clouds. The clouds interact, and repel each other. They are not, however, "touching" in the classical sense. They are simply repelling due to the Coulomb force. Things are incomprehensibly different on the atomic scale than on the macroscopic scale. Everyday notions of position and contact do not apply on the atomic scale.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Actually am very Qualified in these matters (Dont like to be Vain)

so wont quote any letters after my name or etc...

so at sub atomic level are none of the particles solid? so you would suggest that even the tiniest known particle is also made up of some similar scheme like the Atoms of which they are a part of! and infinitely reccuring for all particles of particles of particles of particles..............................

and all of these held together by force only? and none of these sub particles ever actually physically in contact at all levels, so therefore force increases exponentially as thing get smaller? which it would have to for anything to actually hold its form, so are you saying that there are even more significantly energetic reaction than Nuclear Fusion and Fision? so are the models of atomic structure apply to infinity because nothing is ever truly solid or in contact with anything else???

If you have a formula or explaination of how this all works then i will hail you with much respect.......

 

[toffeapple]

I think ya need to take this up with Stephen Hawkins...or start a physics thread

 

[MonkeyMan]

That's a very nice theory, but it's quite apparent that you have absolutely no idea what force, energy, friction, magnetic fields, or black holes even are. Prove me wrong. Also, don't congratulate yourself too much; you've posted only un-scientific nonsense based on nothing more than passing fancies and homegrown "theories" (and I use the word very loosely). If this thread is legendary for anything, it's legendary for the sheer amount of crackpot pseudoscience tossed around.

lol, what I'm trying to do is think "outside of the box" which most ppl do not do. They follow the norms, and do not use their own logic to apply to scientific theories and discoveries. Your right, in that these have no professional scientific proof, but that is why I state in my post "My theories" in which it is just that lol. I do apply some scientific data about the universe, and apply it to my theories. It shows that I am "Thinking about the possibilities" of scientific logic and theory. I honestly think you said those things just to make me feel bad lol, but as I stated in my post, its just my theories.

 

[Athena]

OK so we are just talking aliens from another life supporting planet.

Does pre animate matter count or do the aliens have to be self a where in order to be considered for this pole?

Well I hate to say because I would like to think there are other people out there looking to the sky and seeing our sun as a star but after years of schooling, books, talks w/ people w/ more brains than pride I have to say there is no way. Using math to do the odds actually puts the odds so low that it means we are not even here.

Anyway cool place to read about stuff.
space.com
reasonstobelieve.org

But I still have hope we will one day out grow believing in silly things like the law a relativity so we can move forward developing tech that will allow us to travel faster than light.

 

[Vigilante]

so we can move forward developing tech that will allow us to travel faster than light.

That would/will be downright creepy if we ever get that smart. After all, how can you really test if something goes faster then the speed of light? I mean, if scientists were able to shoot something off into space at, say, 10x lightspeed, how would they tell it to stop? Or communicate with it? Or know where it went? Or be able to bring it back? What if they tell it to "shoot" back at us, and it smacks into earth and ends life as we know it?

I'm not sure I would want to be living the age where people can send objects that fast out into space. But it would have to be a significant multiplier of lightspeed. For example, to reach even our nearest start in, say, and hour, we would have to travel hundreds of times faster then the speed of light. I don't know for sure, I whipped out my calculator to try and figure that out. Somebody smarter then me do that please? Here it is:

Nearest star: 4.3 Light Years
Spead of light: 186,000 Miles / second

How many times the spead of light do you have to travel to get there in an hour? For some reason my mind is drawing a blank on how to calculate that. I'm going to bed.

 

[hewybo]

I think

Unless I missed a number, I believe you'd have to travel about 733,808.219 times the speed of light to get there in an hour. Mr. Vigilante, I don't think even your Viper (with a tune-up) could do that. Maybe with some nitrous oxide boosters?

Besides, it wouldn't be any fun, cuz you couldn't call ahead to tell your Aunt KmduhgksKNhtk to meet ya, cuz she wouldn't get the call until ..........um.......er....... quite a bit later than you arrived. Plus she would have aged um.......er.........um........ years! Plus- it would give mew meaning to the phrase: "You can't go home again."

Hope this helps. :angel:

 

[Vigilante]

Lol, what was your formula? It seemed simple to me but I couldn't get it, to late at night I guess.

But as for the rest of your comment, I would just assume, that if we could jettison solids at 800k times the speed of light, surely the same technology could transfer non-solids even quicker. Such as an interstellar phone call. But here it gets better, so what if we get to our nearest star in an hour? What about hopping on over to our nearest galaxy in, say, a good 24 hours flight? Instead of a "lightyear", we'll have to coin a new term of speed!

Maybe it'll be like the movies and we'll build a stargate so when you enter it, you come out instantaneous on the other stargate. lol
-----------

I was just thinking something, based on a previous persons comments. For those of you who believe in evolution and what not, that there is no god. Ok, here is the point, no matter WHAT kind of "chances" you give to have life elsewhere in the universe, it MUST be true, because WE are here. We are part of the same chance right? So it doesn't matter if you say 1 out of 10 chance or 1 out of 10^10^10^10. The fact that WE are here, proves that it is possible. Therefore you CANNOT say that life doesn't exists elsewhere, because we are here, and are part of the same chance. Therefore we know that NO chance is to great for life to exists, because it already HAS existed.

Anyhoo, I don't believe that anyway, but I thought it was interesting just the same.

 

[hewybo]

can't remember

I was tired, but- I came up with 23,462,784,000,000 miles as the distance to the star, so that's the speed (in mph) you'd have to travel to get there in an hour. Light travels at 669,600,000 mph, so- (and this is a new, today, I'm awake, calc) 23,462,784,000,000/669,600,000 = NEW RESULT! That's 35,040 times the speed of light.

With that corrected figure (???!!!), it should be easily attainable. In fact, on high octane my Blazer might do it! Ya wanna be careful about jettisoning solids, though, or you might arrive as a shadow of your former self.

I prefer the stargate, too, but those guys at Cheyenne Mountain have a lousy attitude about lettin me in to use it. :bounce:

As for life elsewhere, all I can say is, it exists on the ocean floor, with NO sunlight, plastered all over and around 800 degree thermal vents. That's a pretty low environmental requirement; surely that can be equalled elsewhere.
If you're talking about sentient creatures, that'a a whole different ballgame, but as you say- it happened here.

 

[zephead]

the nearest galaxy is over 2 million light years away...which means what we see is where it was >2 million years ago

i think that the distances involved here make the interaction with alien worlds a pretty slim chance.

 

[MonkeyMan]

Well, I'm going to leave out the theoretical, and scientific explainations for this post and say: Actually, It's not that slim Zep. Just think about it, there are billions and billions of planets that exist in the Universe, and your telling me that no intelligent life can exist? I personally think its just not possible. Astronomers from around the world, have already found over 160 planets to date, and we know we are just scratching the surface. They have already launched a space shuttle to investigate Pluto, and what it may possibly contain. I think that Pluto just might surpise us, in that it may have some form of life, maybe not intelligent, but its possible. Astronomers think that Pluto could support life, but not intelligent life, because the temperatures on Pluto are way too hostile for anything intelligent to live in. Pluto's temperatures are estimated to be (-228 to -238 C, 35 to 45 K)http://www.lowell.edu/users/buie/pluto/plutotemp.html Now, these are pretty extreme temperatures, and it would be a very crazy concept to assume that intelligent life could exist on this planet. However, Microbial life, and other extremely less intelligent organisms could exist on Pluto, I give it that, but I dunno, maybe some very furry mammals live on the hostile planet. I guess we'll just have to see, when the space shuttle observes its hostile surface. And also, I believe that we could possibly reach the speed of light through the use of laser technology. We could possibly harnest a very powerful laser system, into a propulsion type engine, that could give us the juice to possibly reach light speed. But, If I may add, there have to be, an almost infinite source of energy, because it would take a tremendous amount of energy to keep this thing going. I mean just think about it, it would take every energy source we have in the world today, and more, to scratch the surface of reaching the speed of light. I'm not even going to use a fuel related scenario, because fuel would be less efficient, and it would take zillions of tons of fuel to even fuel a light speed propulsion for only a couple of minutes. So, I use a laser system scenario type, because we already possess this technology, and it would seem more likely, with technolgy that we already possess. If there was a way that we could somehow program a laser light, to send back information over vast distances, we could be able to travel beyond our solar system. This is possible, because we have the technology to recieve information through space shuttles, that we send out in space, over vast amounts of distances. Well, this is my theory, along with some scientific explainations to go along with it, but as I always state, I'm thinking outside, and inside of the box. I have so much more to say, but I think I'll stop here, because this post is getting rather long lol. I have so so many theories, but I'll state them as we go along, because I don't want to put them all in one post, because I could probably take up like 2 pages lol. But I would like to hear some of your theories on the universe, alongside scientific data, to see what kind of ideas you all can come up with. Well, does anyone have any?

 

[tipstir]

Wait for the Roman calendar to end in the year 2011; you'll have your answer to the question you posed.

 

[Jonas_football]

is it or is it not verry probable that aliens exist??? To answer that question another must be answered before...How was the earth created?
was it created by hundrends of thousands of misshapenings, until there was a jump unexplainable to science and there was life for??? ort was it created by god??? or was it created by other inteligent life form??? or are we part of an experimnet, run by the mice???

As long as we don't know how the earth was formed and micro organisms created, we can't know if it is probable that their is aliens in the universe or not.
If we believe that the earth and us was created as sience suggestes, by a siries of mistakes, then it it verry unlikley that there is other life form ont htis planet.

Another theory is that as long as no one see's something it doesn't exist, like if you leave your room there is nothing left in your room, your desk, computer,bed,tv,or whatever else you've got in there just doesn't exist, as long as you are gone... the moment you reenter your room everything is back...
if that is the case, then if no one has seen the aliens then they don't exist, can't evolve, can't come to us...

 

[SNGX1275]

But I would like to hear some of your theories on the universe, alongside scientific data, to see what kind of ideas you all can come up with. Well, does anyone have any?

is it or is it not verry probable that aliens exist??? To answer that question another must be answered before...How was the earth created?

When you've been around these forums for a long time you recognise lots of stuff that has been talked about before. What I'm about to paste came from earlier threads on this board, but originally existed back on the forums when we were still using Jawbreaker rather than vBullitin.

Originally posted by SNGX1275 in the OLD FORUM

History of Universe:

1. Initially-Minkowski Space -pre big bang

Mass = 0

Temp = 0k

Volume = 0 *Laws of Physics do not apply*

2. Big Bang - Universe Created

-First appearence of Expanding Energy -something higher energy than plasma

3.1 Second into Existance

- 1st appearence of mass

- Exponential Expansion Phase

- Broken Symmetry (slight variations in texture)

- Hotter and "cooler" regions begin to form

- 1st Heterogeneties

4. Partical Creation Phase

- 1st particles - antiparticles created

- Expanding Sphere continues

5. Partical Production Ceases - subatomic particles

- Particles and antiparticles mutually anialate each other

- Attraction due to electormagnetic properties

6. 14 seconds after Big Bang

- Subatomic particles begin to organize into protons & neutrons

- Then organize into the nuclei of H and He

- 80% Hydrogen 20% Helium

- Temperature = 3 Billion K

- H & He concentrated in Hotter Regions

7. Time = 300,000 Years

- Temperature 3000K

- Temperature is cool enough for electorns to attract to H and He nucleui - atoms formed

- "Proto"star formation in hot dense regions

8. Time 1 Billion years

- Accumulation of enough H-He to allow 1st stars to ignite

- Proto galaxies begin to form - corresponding vacuum of space



Thats the history of the universe for you. Kind of placed it in this post for fun. I'm bored and been drinking a bit yet its too early to go out just yet.



In case you are interested into where formation of earth comes into play I'll help you out. All you high school students take note maybe you can use this in one of the science classes you take



Estimates range for universe age most being between 13-20 billion years. Based on the "Red Shift" (Hubble I think discovered this). And by Cephid Stars (they pulse at a high rate and somehow they determine this I could explain the best I can but it would take too much time).



Our Solar system can be very precisely be estimated to be 4.6 billion years old. Oldest dated earth rock - 4.2 Billion. Now time for earth history:

1. At least 1 supernova explosion before matter in Earth can be formed (remember H and He were the only elements that existed at formation of universe... We have more than H and He right?)

2. Planetesimals form in our solar system (masses of matter)

3. Heavy elements settle to inside of planets (now I'm just goign to do earth now).

4. After 100,000 years our sun enters a T-Tauri stage where it expels 25% of its mass in a proton/electron plasma.

5. This explosion blows a good portion of the gases from the inner planets out to the gaseous planets.

6. Fairly long planetary accretion process of how elemental seggregation happened (that I will not get into-Smith and Ringwood models if you care to look them up)

7. Then sometime in accretion process when earth is still molten a big meteor hits it and displaces some of the matter, making up the moon. Trust me this is a logical model - I could provide you with elemental percentages of matter in earth and moon and compare it to smith and ringwood models and it would make sense.



Well I think this is my longest post ever by about 4 fold. Hopefully the people that cared enough to read this learned some. I find it pretty interesting.



If you are curious as to how I know this stuff, well I learned it from about the 3rd and 4th lectures in Geochemistry at my school. (I'm a geology major).

 

[SNGX1275]

Here is another part explaining some more stuff.

Well its hard to write atomic weight and atomic mass without doing it in a math program. So here is what I'm going to do. if I right 1:1H that means 1 proton and 1 neutron. 13:7C means 7 protons 6 neutrons.



So 1st we started with hydrogen and helium like I said in that previous post but here is how helium forms:

*1:1H + 1:1H +1:1H +1:1H ----> 4:2He

*This process is called electron capture. It converts a proton to a neutron when it captures the electron.

*He production results in densification of core of stars which leads to a temperature increase.

*At about 100Million degrees Kelvin He fusion occurs:

4:2He + 4:2He + 4:2He ----> 12:6C with Intermediate Li, B, Be

*Carbon atoms form a catylist for further reactions

*CNO cycle (carbon nitrogen oxygen)

* 12:6C + 1:1H ----> 13:7N + gamma

* 13:7N ----> 13:6C + a Beta particle (positron)

* 13:6C + 1:1H ----> 14:7N + gamma

* 14:7N + 1:1H ----> 15:8O + gamma

* 15:8O ----> 15:7N + Beta

* 15:7N + 1:1H ----> 12:6C + 4:2He which is the catylist for the CNO cycle - its recycled. the 4:2He is an alpha particle when stripped of electrons.

* Alpha Particle Fusion

* 12:6C + 4:2He ----> 16:8O

* 16:8O + 4:2He ----> 20:10Ne

* 20:10Ne + 4:2He ----> 24:12Mg

* there are 9 more steps to this which continue all the way up through formation of 56:28Ni, that is the last of alpha particle fusion. I don't think I need to continue the pattern as it should seem obvious after 3 examples. (the nickel formed is radioactive, it decays to a stable Iron)

*NOW 1 OF 2 THINGS CAN HAPPEN

1. Reaction continues until all of the He is used up, then the star fizzles out and forms a "White Dwarf" which has a cool dark Iron Core and the other elements that formed (smaller than Fe). Note: Our sun will take this path.

2. This is the cool one

Neutron Capture occurs in Red Giant Stars

* 62:28Ni + 1:0n ----> 63:28Ni + gamma Note: I must have temporarly fallen asleep during this class because I don't have in my notes how we got from that alpha fusion to 62:28Ni....

* 63:28Ni + 1:0n ----> 63:29Cu

* This is the process that formed all further elements



Now you might be subconsiously wondering why we have heavier elements than Iron on Earth, espically since our Sun is taking the wrong path. Well it simply means that our solar system is a result of at least 1 supernova explosion (red giants can do the whole supernova thing).



While I'm rambling on (you guys don't have to read the rest) I'll include some observations about elements in our Solar System.

1. As atomic # increases abundance generally decreases.

2. Oddo-Harkins Rule:

- Elements with even atomic #s are more stable than odd.

- Number of neutrons also has an effect on nuclear stability:

Proton Neutrons Mass # Of Stable Isotopes

Even Even Even 168

Even Odd Odd 57

Odd Even Odd 50

Odd Odd Even 4 (Li, Be)







It appears that the spacing isn't work right for that table, you'll just have to imagine they line up