Why aren't electric cars already ubiquitous?

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picka

Posts: 83   +95
Seeing as companies like ford and nissan have reported low sales
Sales from coast to coast is anything but low. I guess that falls right in with the other lies we are to believe.

You may not believe it. But any time a small guy came in and presented something that would counter oil production. They were soon never heard of again. They were either bought out or vanished. I'm beginning to think the same is taking place with battery tech.

I bet it was the aliens.
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 13,141   +6,439
Hydrogen if it can be extracted cleanly is the future. Drop this crazy battery idea.
So you are banking on a concept that you are not sure can be a thing. And at the same time calling battery usage a bad idea. As if it is not better than burning fossil fuels. Thanks for voting.
I bet it was the aliens.
Probably the aliens buying up all the telecoms and movie studios as well. Do you actually think big business doesn't buy up and silence the little guy?
 

Aus spot

Posts: 130   +111
So you are banking on a concept that you are not sure can be a thing. And at the same time calling battery usage a bad idea. As if it is not better than burning fossil fuels. Thanks for voting.

I say stick with a known working solution and invest in a technology known to be working which needs one or two fixes to make it best in class.

On the comment of voting, should I mention trump? Hahaha
 

arrowflash

Posts: 514   +589
Range, charging time and price.

This. They aren't the only reasons, but are the main reasons by a wide margin. No need for an article or study to figure this one out.

To add on top of this if your electric car breaks good luck finding a mechanic to fix it, you'll have to go to the cars manufacturer to fix it and it's probably going to cost a lot since it's complex and fiddly. There's also a lot of software and do I need to tell you how most software these days is mostly rushed buggy piece of ****?

We also need to see how age will affect batteries in electric cars and how reliable are they after 10-15 years. There are a lot of questions that require time to be answered and people won't spend huge amounts of money for something untested (unless they're gamers).

Me thinks if you want an electric car revolution you have to work on making them as affordable as possible which means no fancy infotainment systems, autopilots and so on...The downside with that is they will become less attractive (Personally, I don't even like those features in modern cars) And even then it will be too expensive for most people, they will buy them used once they become cheap but it's gonna take a few years for that.

Also this. Maintenance isn't a big issue afaik, because EVs supposedly are much more reliable and actually have less complicated maintenance than combustion vehicles.

Long-term battery longevity is a reason for concern though, especially since they make up a big chunk of an EVs price. If manufacturers don't find a way to drastically cut down battery cost without making compromises on longevity, range and safety, current EVs could be practically disposable and have no reasonable fate other than the junkyard once their batteries begin to fail in 10 years.

I also fully agree with you on your last point. I want to see an EV by a name brand without any fancy yuppie stuff, no self-driving or auto-braking crap, no huge tablets instead of a traditional dashboard and instrument cluster, just try to sell me an affordable, sturdy EV 4-door sedan, minivan or SUV that's like a standard budget car with nothing more than AC/heating, radio, power windows, cup holders and standard safety features such as airbags and ABS (but of course, no compromises on performance, range and recharge time).
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 6,280   +7,213
#1 Design: up till Tesla, most EV were ugly, small little clown cars. Tesla - followed by Germans with PHEV - are the first to make "desirable" EV that don't stand out too much on the highwway.

#2 Range - Tesla was first to give us a mass produced EV getting 300 miles range and being able to recharge itself in a reasonable amount of time. Charge time is important because a car's charge time can't conflict with people's routines. PHEV was always the safer route, but was plagued by problems.

#3 COST - obviously, if an EV costs 2 or 3 times the price of a regular, practical car, they were gonna be seen as niche luxury gimmicks.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,546   +7,387
Range, I know the range will increase in the years to come as battery technology increases.
Charging time, I know that will get less as well as it's done since battery technology's been in use.
Price, As electric vehicles need about 200 parts to work as opposed to petrol cars 1000 shouldn't electric cars be cheaper? I know they are in early development but shouldn't the car companies take the hit for the future profits they will make on these cars.
We are (allegedly) suffering from a lithium "shortage". Lithium is the chief element in lithium ion batteries> (Although, yes, I am stating the obvious).

In any event, you'd think with lithium being 3rd on the periodic chart, it would be around in abundance. But, a star can't fuse lithium, it and 2 other elements between helium and carbon are all unstable. Thus, you have to wait for a supernova to come along, .and make lithium for you. FWIW, a star fuses to carbon from helium in what's called "the triple alpha process". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-alpha_process
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 18,546   +7,387
...[ ]....Hydrogen if it can be extracted cleanly is the future. Drop this crazy battery idea.
Other than the obvious:

129559_Hindenburg_disaster---Hero.jpg


I do believe that extracting hydrogen from water requires electrolysis, which requires fuel to be burned.

I don't have the efficiency stats on the process as compared to generating electricity for distribution. I'll leave that part of the discussion to you. Still, considering the amount of hydrogen necessary to fuel a fleet the size of America's passenger cars, the energy expended would be formidable.

Oops, I almost forgot, if we're talking about hydrox in a liquid form, it (obviously), has to be pressurized and refrigerated. I only mention it since it is quite dangerous, (even more so than lithium batteries), and isn't quite the "free energy source" to which you're alluding.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 18,546   +7,387
4) You need a house with outlets/tools/etc capabale of charging EVs to charge at home. How many people own houses in America? The people living in condos, apartments, etc wont be able to charge EVs. Going back on its higher upfront price, EVs are basically for rich or well to do people who own houses and can afford paying a large premium over gas cars.

None of these big problems are caused by consumer ignorance or greedy dealers.
Don't forget that row houses make up a very sizable chunk of owned houses. In the inner city and even near field suburbs, row homes predominate. Nobody is guaranteed a parking spot in front of their home. Where I live, there are no "savezies". In fact, even if you block up a parking spot you just shoveled out for yourself from a monster snow storm, you might get hit with a $200.00 fine,.(and costs).
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,546   +7,387
Both responses were childish. The correct response would have been the truth or silence.
Why don't you do us both a big favor and go try and talk down to someone else.

AFAIK, you're not staff. (IMO, you're not really stable enough).

If you think about it, perhaps your best response might have been to not respond, and let the joke play out .

Better still, put me back on your ignore list..(y) (Y)
 
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Fearghast

Posts: 499   +413
TBH Price is the only issue for me.
Give me something like a Yaris or preferably something bigger, so I can fit my family comfortably, 400 km range and I am good.
There are not many chargers in my country, but as long as the range is good and I have option to charge at home I seriously see no issue to switch my 2.0 TDCI for electric motor.

Even that new prototype of Prius, that with solar panels EVERYWHERE seriously peaked my interest - sadly the price will be ridiculous.

I can estimate my current car holding up 3 more years, so hurry up guys :-D
 
R

retsxel

The question this article posed can be summed up with these points;
1. Entry Price/Expense
2. Range(lack thereof)
3. Recharge times
4. Battery wear-down(further reducing range)
5. Maintenance Costs(see below)
6. Right-to-repair(lack thereof, in blatant violation of standing laws)

Enough said.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,546   +7,387
Even that new prototype of Prius, that with solar panels EVERYWHERE seriously peaked my interest - sadly the price will be ridiculous.
"TBH", as you so deftly put it, those Prius solar panels are more likely for the express purpose of "piquing peoples interest", than for any real value in recharging the car. This 25 watt (!) panel from Harbor freight, hits the tape at 13 1/2" x 40", or about 3 1/2 square feet of surface area.

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-Watt-Solar-Panel-63940.html As you can see you'd likely need a dozen or so, just to run the car's air conditioner.

(I honestly don't know if this output is typical or not. I put it in to provoke discussion)

This video is a bit tedious, but it shows a loss of about 10 horsepower with the A/C engaged. The music is horrible at the end of the video. Quick, hit stop, right after he makes his conclusions.

.
As far as price goes, don't expect much in the way of relief. I think they charge you somehow to drive into center city London nowadays. (There's a story behind that statement, which I can't recall ATM, but it is worth investigating).

The point I'm getting to is, (IMHO), that government would like to, "price drivers off the roads", given the further congestion that lower priced EVs might cause in conjunction with an exploding population.

Accordingly, they can take kickbacks from mass transit interests, and tax the sh!t out of the rest of the population to get these systems built.
 
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treetops

Posts: 3,064   +784
Hopefully alienating China is not part of a big oil lobbying scheme. We need their rare earth metals to build batteries. A decent budget electric car would make the demand for gas plummet. A win win for the consumer, cheap gas vs electric.

P.s. I just googled the koch brothers, they indeed have a hand in big oil, this does not bode well.

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/companies-owned-koch-brothers/

2016 oil and gas contributions
1 Trump, Donald (R) $1,069,181 (not Koch)
2 Clinton, Hillary (D) $967,336 (idk which companies)

The tech industry vs big oil?

p.s.s. Tech will win it's just a matter of time, people love their smart phones to much. The battery will continue to improve. Then will have a new big oil. Maybe our new masters will be kinder.

Just a thought.
 
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quadibloc

Posts: 353   +237
If legislation increases the cost of making a car, of course, without any need for explicit collusion in violation of antitrust law, the expected consequence is that the price of a car will exactly reflect that. Only if the market for cars somehow became more competitive would that not be the case. (Of course, with cars more expensive, consumers would be more price sensitive, so that would happen to at least a limited extent.) So I am amazed at the unrealistic goals of the governments in Europe, expecting someone else to pay for the price increase.
 
My local Kia dealership told me that they would not be be getting a Niro EV because “there is no demand for electric cars outside of downtown Atlanta” in GA. He then proceeded to try to sell me literally anything else.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,477   +4,402
TechSpot Elite
We could have had electric cars decades ago. But the money all went to oil companies which bought patents and stopped development of electric cars.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,546   +7,387
We could have had electric cars decades ago. But the money all went to oil companies which bought patents and stopped development of electric cars.
I tried to explain to one of our members that Apple likely patented "retractable bumpers", for a car they had no intention of proceeding to build, to either force others to license the tech, or use it for patent trolling. That earned me a 3 page argument to the contrary.

Somehow it seems, Apple apparently violated Universal Studios "patent" on the "Knight Rider" movie car, "KITT" which was automatically granted patent rights on its retractable bumpers, without filing for it.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,546   +7,387
...[ ]....4. Battery wear-down(further reducing range).
Speaking of batteries, most rechargeable batteries lose capacity in cold weather. NiCads admittedly, were by far the worst in this regard, but most to all rechargeables suffer from it to one degree or another.

Electric car builders, (I'm speaking directly to you Tesla), most likely rate their car's range under ideal conditions. You know 72 degrees F, & 40% RH. OK, ICE engine powered vehicle builders are certainly no better in this respect. But, with a gas station almost within walking distance in a huge chunk of the US, they can lie their a**es off, without really harming or stranding their customers.

Winter driving in snow, with its low speeds and lights, defrosters,and windshield wipers, can almost kill the battery in an ICE vehicle, which presumably is able to charge its battery as you drive. You have to wonder what kind of dent that would put in the advertised ranges of electrics, particularly on an older set of batteries.

I really wouldn't put anything past Tesla, particularly in light of the fact they put their biggest batteries in all their cars, lock the buyer out of full capacity, until they get paid something like another ten grand to unlock the battery's full potential. You know, sort of like the same sh!t, Apple pulled with their older phones.

The younger set here is frighteningly susceptible to propaganda. They live and breathe advertising, as if Madison Avenue's crap storm of lies, is some sort of gospel. And that's particularly if it's a "cause", they want to believe in.
 
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kira setsu

Posts: 287   +223
For me at least, they try to hard.

the idea of never going to a gas station again sounds great, but the cars are awful in execution, I dont even mind the higher price because I understand the premium on new technology.

look at tesla model3, the interior imo seems weird and alien, everything focused on a massive screen, and most of these electric cars pull from that book of design, yeah sure theyre electric and new but why veer from the normal vehicle so much?

give me the drivetrain from an electric vehicle with the body and interior of a mazda/chevy/toyota, a normal vehicle and you'd have a sale from me.
 
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