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Windows 'Threshold' may bring back the Start menu

By Scorpus ยท 43 replies
Dec 9, 2013
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  1. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,498   +5,064

    Awe!! Are we giving you a headache? No wonder you are confusing anger for whining.

    I do love giving others a headache, especially when they love taking peoples options away and then accuse them of whining. If I'm not giving you a headache yet, I can up the game and start using a ball bat. No seriously, I'm free this weekend.

    At least I'm old enough, my screen doesn't look like a marriage between building blocks and crayons. I actually love using an image for my background, and don't need a ugly full screen menu system. And I shouldn't be forced to pay extra for an ecosystem, that was taken out of a previous Windows OS. Ohh and my window frames are not dull looking either.

    Can you guess which Windows version I am running? I'll give you a small hint, it will never be Windows 8, even if they keep the same name for another 8 years. At this point it is the name I hate, as well as out-of-the-box forced ecosystem change. I'm not gonna give Windows 8.x a chance period. Microsoft might as well change the name of their next release, because as far as I'm concerned Windows 8 has burned a bridge. And from what I can gather, there are others that probably feel the same way.
     
  2. Vrmithrax

    Vrmithrax TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,474   +510


    Sorry, childhood? I've been using Windows since the very first version, hell I helped beta test the first version, so maybe you should reign back on the insults and consider that maybe, JUST MAYBE, there are millions of people out there who have (gasp!) different opinions than you and (shock!) actually use their computers differently than you do. And, it's quite possible that those people have been using Windows for 20+ years and have grown accustomed to a specific method of work, come to expect certain things from Windows, and are most efficient when working within a familiar environment...

    Make no mistake, we're not all adverse to change and advancement... But only if it really makes sense, and if it's done right. The Modern UI and app system is absolutely stellar for tablet/touch environments, and I personally love the Surface products (and many of the new 8.1 OEM systems). But that doesn't mean I love it on my desktop. Did you see that Guest post with 3 monitors and a ridiculous Start Screen spread over the entire thing? That's very similar to my system, and was what completely turned me off to Win8 on my desktop. When I want to start a program, I don't want to lose every screen while I hunt for the tile. Couple that with all of these new shiny Win8 program/apps that force full screen, and you lost my interest entirely. It is abundantly clear that a decision was made to tailor Win8 for touch platforms, which leaves me out in the cold a bit. And I most certainly am not alone. Yes, I'm aware there are mods and programs I can get to help mold my user experience back to what it SHOULD be, but that's a little beside the point - the product decisions made when developing Win8 served to massively alienate the very loyal demographics that made Windows such a success in the beginning. MS basically saying "tough, this is how it is, touch is the future, go buy another program to make it how you want it" doesn't do anything to mask the big middle finger that they flew right our faces.
     
  3. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,151   +588

    At this point, I could not care less if they add that back as im happy with Windows 8.1, unless they add orders me a pizza when im hungry support to the list then I really could not care. I have learned to just adapt and move on unless something just kills the machine and experience all together. Honestly just hitting start and typing is what I do anyway, whether its on a basic text toolbar or a giant vibrant colorful screen does not matter to me.
     
  4. Finally, Windows 7 SP2. I do not care what they call it, I know what it is.
     
  5. trparky

    trparky TS Evangelist Posts: 552   +435

    "The choice by Microsoft to remove the Start menu initially caused a lot of negative feedback in the community"
    A lot? Really? That's like saying that the Cold War was a little tense. "A lot" doesn't even start to cover the amount of negative feedback that was given when they took out the Start Menu.

    Plus, not only that but the window dressings need some serious work. Square windows? No translucent window borders? Seriously?! Did we just step into the TARDIS and go back in time to 1995? It's like you practically need WindowBlinds on Windows 8 to make it even come close to looking decent!
     
  6. Littleczr

    Littleczr TS Guru Posts: 441   +92

    I still don't want it. Why would a want to install a bloated UI? Take out the bloated UI for desktops please.!
     
  7. HalfHuman

    HalfHuman TS Rookie

    I'm sorry if I was rude. only wanted to be direct. the whole start menu debate is sooo old. also talking about wether start menu will come back or not is boring beyond belief. it is also superficial. windows got so many little improvement that when you just get stuck on the start menu thing... well it sounds short sighted. the start menu is something microsoft invented. using the start screen compared to start menu its like using the mouse rather than putting your finger on a icon/tile.
    to me the start screen makes the apps (metro)... that we only have a few for now, a lot more discoverbale. as I said I do not really use the start sceen, its the place where 98% of the time a I go and start typing to search stuff and press enter. this can be learned by a beginer. but lets take on example: a weather app, metro and clasic. the clasic one you hunt through the start menu and open it... probably using the mouse. a metro weather app is already giving you some data in a tile, is animated, enticing you to click the tile to get more. this makes a lot of sense for simple folks, as much as touch makes a lot more sense compared to mouse and keyboard. a small child will learn intuitively a lot faster the tile paradigm than moving the mouse here to move the arrow (cursor) there on the screen to click on a static image (icon). I have to mention of course that this is for simple folks doing simple taks... that even the pros do. for doing pro stuff... the deskop is and will be the king for the forseable future. this is however debateable as touch can be used in pro scenarios as well but that is for another day.
     
  8. inventix1136

    inventix1136 TS Rookie Posts: 85   +14

    The fact that Windows 7 does not have Metro UI is actually a big selling point of the OS and personally I never use it because if you have a large number of programs installed, it is virtually impossible to determine what each icon is and scrolling through 5+ pages of tiles is a major non-starter for me...
     
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  9. inventix1136

    inventix1136 TS Rookie Posts: 85   +14

    It is true. Even a Ferrari driver can adopt to driving a Yogo with bald tires because that's what Windows 7 to Windows 8 comparison is in terms of productivity. Just because someone adapts to something doesn't mean that they are as productive as before.
     
  10. To the people Who say win8 is a better version of win 7 tell me, how it is better to have the control panel split over two separate areas. How is it better to have a web browser (IE) with two totally different personalities. How is it better to close some programs with the X button and others with a full screen mouse drag. The fact is windows 8 offers no usability improvements over win 7. I work in a computer store and we struggling to move PC's. The 1st question most customers ask is "can I put windows 7 on it" And the answer is either yes if you pay extra for win 8 pro or no because many laptop OEMs don't offer win 7 drivers. HP envy for example.
     
  11. Hey if they backtracked on Xbox One they might just do the same on Windows. Sounds like consumer win to me.
     
  12. As someone who works regularly with users for computer support, Windows 8 has been a nightmare for me.

    The first problem was that all the changes were like having to re-learn how to walk. I couldn't do anything efficiently until I spent hours "updating my software" just to get my head wrapped around the changes.
    That hasn't happened to me ever since my initial days working with Win 3.x.
    The start menu was an addition that efficiently and cleanly organized a lot of options into a small area. The loss of open and closable groups on the desktop (of remembered custom sizes) was slightly annoying, but that was it.
    Since Win95, the only real changes have been shortcut keys (damn you shift from CtrlAltDel to CtrlShiftEsc), and background processes.

    The biggest issues though are how consumers understand their computers. One of the tricks I would show users previously was how to move all their "random junk" programs in the start menu into one folder, streamlining their Start experience and making it very quick and intuitive. As well as combining that with Desktop (and later, quick launch) links for the most used applications.
    Now it feels like setting up anything where they have access to the tools they need requires pen and paper so they remember how to get to it all. No more "Start -> Programs -> Computer Trouble" to hide away all those programs, text files, etc, that they hopefully won't need (and don't want to stare at) for months.
    Or when I ask them "how do you get to your control panel", after showing them, it usually involves them trying for 30+ seconds to get the side bar to pop up for them.

    And as a dedicated user of multiple monitors, Windows 8 guaranteed that I'd never move past Windows 7. Win8 is a single-screen touch-enabled monstrosity that belongs in the handheld (tablet/phone) market only.
    They promised us a "slimmed down" Windows that we would expand and customize to our needs. And yet most professionals I know involved in computer tech find themselves removing/limiting parts of Win8...

    MS failed us with Windows 8. They're finally listening to what we have told them with our wallets, but I say "too little, too late". I'm happy with Windows 7. With the dropping prices of RAM, and increases in processing power from multi-core CPUs and 64 bit processing, the bloating still present in Windows 7 is entirely manageable at only minor cost. And that cost is far less than the drawbacks of "upgrading" to the next OS - especially when you consider the cost Microsoft charges for their OS software.
     
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  13. Railman

    Railman TS Booster Posts: 708   +101

    To me the most damaging aspect of W8 is the structure of the icons which is a flat file structure as opposed to hierarchical. I am so used to a hierarchical structure as it makes sense to me. I suspect MS was thinking about cloud storage such as SharePoint. My company attempted to get staff to use SharePoint instead of the traditional server drives. They gave up because of complaints and constant failures of SharePoint. My biggest issue with SharePoint was the flat file structure. A flat file structure is only usable if there is a sensible naming convention and meta data is used.
     
  14. Jad Chaar

    Jad Chaar Elite Techno Geek Posts: 6,482   +978

    Lol I love how it took 2 years for them to listen
     
  15. I'd really like to see AeroGlass come back too.
     
  16. Pulagatha

    Pulagatha TS Rookie

    I hope they bring AeroGlass back too.
     
  17. hood6558

    hood6558 TS Evangelist Posts: 353   +110

    Surely there are many people at M$ who don't agree with Ballmer's carnival huckster approach (tell the suckers what they want and make them think they like it). Many of them are probably working quietly in the background trying to make Windows better, hoping that the new CEO will have the sense to see what's obvious, that the present and future landscape requires multiple custom versions and not the "unified user experience" crap that top management has been pushing lately. The smart ones know that people love options, the ability to customize something to their own satisfaction, because it lets them express individuality in a cookie-cutter world. Take the automotive industry as an example; those guys have it down - 40 brands available in the U.S., dozens of models from each brand, hundreds of options to choose from, in every color of the rainbow. How boring it would be if all cars were black like in the 1930's, and the only option was an AM radio. That's what the Ballmer crowd accomplished with Windows 8 - boring, simplified, options removed instead of added. There should be as many different versions as the market demands, including a totally streamlined version for gamers, lite versions for those with entry-level hardware, and full pro versions with all the options. All versions should include the option to remove (not just hide) any built-in Windows crap you don't want, including media players and browsers. If they can't or won't adapt to the changes, the Microsoft Era will soon end. With high-end Linux gaming and Steam OS on the horizon, it's time for M$ to remove head from ***...
     
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  18. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,498   +5,064

    Thats exactly the way I feel.
     
  19. Railman

    Railman TS Booster Posts: 708   +101

    The changes if they happen will be good but 2015 is a long way off. I doubt if the PC industry will be impressed. The competition will be happy.
     

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