AMD cutting deeply into Intel's market share across desktop, mobile, and server segments

[ShObiT]

I'm so happy... oh Wait, Radeon VII got me to depression, Can't trust AMD in the GPU market...

 

[wiyosaya]

I'm so happy... oh Wait, Radeon VII got me to depression, Can't trust AMD in the GPU market...

Rome wasn't built in a day!

 

[John832]

Tell me what upgrade will actually get me better gaming performance? What will actually get me more FPS in games? I got an overclocked i7-4790K with a GTX1070ti right now, that I've had since forever now. AMD still can't get me a real upgrade. If I'm going to spend real money, I want real upgrades. I am not going to spend $700 of a RTX2080 only to get it gimped by a Ryzen. And certain not wasting money on a vii for more noise, worse driver support, and instability.

It's like AMD shows up at the racetrack telling all the race car owners how they can out tow everyone else (a.k.a. moar cores, content creation) and any other distraction they can come up with. Damn it, I just want better game performance period. Deliver that at better price and Intel and nVidia already. If they can't do it, just stop with nonsensical marketing crap, I don't want to hear more from their parrots echoing that crap either!

 

[captaincranky]

I heard that rumor, too. I also heard that the code name is "effluvium".

Good one! Even better since one can say, "AMD is full of effluvium", without tripping the dreaded string of asterisks... :

 

[iamcts]

I'm so happy... oh Wait, Radeon VII got me to depression, Can't trust AMD in the GPU market...

The VII trades blows with the RTX 2080. That's pretty damn good. Just give AMD time - they're finally giving the competition something to sweat over.

I think people are forgetting that AMD doesn't have the same R&D budget as Intel and Nvidia. They are 1/20th and 1/5th the size of Intel and Nvidia by market cap, respectively.

 

[John832]

The VII trades blows with the RTX 2080. ...

It looks more like it is just trying to be par with the 2070 see:

For reference see: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-vii-vega-20-7nm,5977-2.html

I think people are forgetting that AMD doesn't have the same R&D budget as Intel and Nvidia. ....

And yet they want to demand the same money from our gamer pockets? Why should anyone be making donations to help them screw us over? It is irrelevant what their budget is, deliver a better performing product for less money or just stop with the misleading marketing.

 

[cliffordcooley]

They are 1/20th

Lets deduct fabrication and everything else not relevant to CPU. Then compare values again. Intel will likely still be larger, but not by such a huge margin.

 

[iamcts]

It looks more like it is just trying to be par with the 2070 see:

For reference see: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-vii-vega-20-7nm,5977-2.html



And yet they want to demand the same money from our gamer pockets? Why should anyone be making donations to help them screw us over? It is irrelevant what their budget is, deliver a better performing product for less money or just stop with the misleading marketing.

I agree - AMD really messed up the pricing on the VII.

The VII beats the RTX 2080 in some benchmarks, but not enough to make it worth the same price as the RTX 2080.

 

[wiyosaya]

Good one! Even better since one can say, "AMD is full of effluvium", without tripping the dreaded string of asterisks... :

Excellent point! I'll have to remember that. Unfortunately, that will somewhat render that great new TS emoticon somewhat passe.

I think people are forgetting that AMD doesn't have the same R&D budget as Intel and Nvidia. They are 1/20th and 1/5th the size of Intel and Nvidia by market cap, respectively.

Which speaks to the level of accomplishment that this is for AMD in taking away market share from sIntel. Fanboism aside, it is quite an accomplishment - IMO.

I agree - AMD really messed up the pricing on the VII.

The VII beats the RTX 2080 in some benchmarks, but not enough to make it worth the same price as the RTX 2080.

As I see it, perhaps VII was more of a test for 7nm as opposed to something meant as a real product. At this point, it is difficult to find a VII anywhere except from the AMD site.

Anand's review - https://www.anandtech.com/show/13923/the-amd-radeon-vii-review looks at areas beyond gaming, and for those who can find a VII, there are some areas of performance that are superior to the competition.

Is it enough to make a difference? Perhaps. If this card can cut into the pro market as a viable alternative to absurdly priced professional graphics cards, then AMD may have a winner in that market place.

IMO, gamers often act like gaming is the only marketplace that exists. As I see it, AMD clearly went for the pro/server market with Zen. Personally, I think that was a smart move since that market is lucrative and meant more cash inflow for AMD. And if AMD is targeting the pro market with VII, I also think that this is the smart move as that market is much more lucrative than gaming.

The conclusions from Tom's seem to agree, IMO - https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-vii-vega-20-7nm,5977-8.html

No one, it seems, is recommending the VII for gaming, but content creation, compute, and professional modeling is a different story - and that is where the money is.

Personally, I would much rather see AMD go for the more lucrative markets rather than the "niche" market of gaming since it means more and much needed money in their bank which they can then reinvest in future product offerings. That AMD is somewhat closer to a better gaming card is a step in the right direction, IMO.

Will we see better gaming performance in the future from AMD? The future holds the answer to that question. We do, however, know that Lisa Su has said that AMD has not forgotten gamers - even that, though, is no guarantee that AMD will release the killer gaming products.

 

[hahahanoobs]

Got that right, @captaincranky
Back in the days of silver halide holograms, as much as a truck going by outside was potentially enough to ruin a hologram - and those wavelengths are a factor of 40 or more longer than 10nm. The smaller the wavelength, the worse it gets in terms of tolerable disturbances. "Visible" light starts around 400nm, and in the early days of holography, the HeNe laser at 633nm was the tool of choice. I suspect that a truck going by some fab would likely have the same ruinous effect, and that all fabs have invested millions of dollars if not more in vibration isolation equipment to mitigate the effect. It is by far not an easy task.


More corporate hubris. sintel will get caught with their pants down if they do not watch out. And why would they erroneously claim their cpus are the cat's meow when they need asinine cooling? https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...anic-reaction-to-32-core-threadripper.245041/

You can be sure that if sIntel was not working on an architecture that is better than the core series, they are now. I bet sIntel is taking AMD seriously. AMD's gains in market, though one might think them small, are substantial. If they follow typical growth processes, they will become exponential if sIntel continues to sit on its core architecture.

Twisted? Really?
And I suppose that you think that a tiny incremental improvement, like, for instance, usb 3.1 from usb 3.0 is worth buying a new motherboard?

IMO, the incremental improvements in supporting hardware on motherboards are plateauing at this point - decreasing the value of subsequent upgrades.

AMD was rebranding chipsets back in the FX days...

Guru3D forum post:
The only notable difference between the 970/99X/990FX chipsets is 990FX supports SLI with 16/16/8 PCI-e slots - (99X is 16/8/4, 970 is 8/4).
Otherwise they're virtually identical, all use the same 950 SB, and the BIOS are same which is why I never bought the Sabertooth.

Simply put 990FX is for SLI, 970 is for single cards.



800 & 900 series are also identical except the 900 series is AM3+ whereas 800 is nearly always AM3.
VRM Phase control is better on the 900's also.

 

[HardReset]

Intel trashed for 5% IPC improvements...
AMD praised for 3% IPC improvement.
*smh*

I have said this before, but...

Intel was trashed because of 5% IPC improvements when switching architecture.

AMD got 3% without architecture change. Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series have exactly same architecture.

For architectural IPC improvements:

Bulldozer-Piledriver ~15%
Piledriver-Steamroller ~10%
Steamroller-Excavator ~10%
Excavator-Zen ~50%
Zen-Zen 2 TBD

AMD was rebranding chipsets back in the FX days...

Guru3D forum post:
The only notable difference between the 970/99X/990FX chipsets is 990FX supports SLI with 16/16/8 PCI-e slots - (99X is 16/8/4, 970 is 8/4).
Otherwise they're virtually identical, all use the same 950 SB, and the BIOS are same which is why I never bought the Sabertooth.

Simply put 990FX is for SLI, 970 is for single cards.

800 & 900 series are also identical except the 900 series is AM3+ whereas 800 is nearly always AM3.
VRM Phase control is better on the 900's also.

Getting 20 PCIe lanes more = rebrand

900 series is rebrand of 800 series. There you have point. Basically, AMD just wanted to tell "buy 900 series chipset = that is surely AM3+". Same thing with Ryzen 300- and 400- series: 400-series will have proper BIOS for 2000-series CPU, 300-series nor surely.

VRM phase control depends on motherboard, not chipset.

At least you got something right this time

 

[cliffordcooley]

For architectural IPC improvements:

Bulldozer-Piledriver ~15%
Piledriver-Steamroller ~10%
Steamroller-Excavator ~10%
Excavator-Zen ~50%
Zen-Zen 2 TBD

Blah blah blah *yawn*

Yet AMD is just now starting to catch up with Intel. So why is it again, Intel is being trashed? Premature trashing maybe?

 

[HardReset]

Blah blah blah *yawn*

Yet AMD is just now starting to catch up with Intel. So why is it again, Intel is being trashed? Premature trashing maybe?

Intel's IPC improvement per generation:

7.th: 0%
8.th: 0%
9.th: 0%

Intel's IPC improvement per year:

2016: 0%
2017: 0%
2018: 0%

Not to mention Intel's 10nm process is 3 years late and counting...

 

[cliffordcooley]

Not to mention Intel's 10nm process is 3 years late and counting...

I'll give you that. But your IPC argument is BS, when AMD has been playing catch up the whole time.

 

[HardReset]

I'll give you that. But your IPC argument is BS, when AMD has been playing catch up the whole time.

I thought you asked why Intel was trashed. But now you are explaining that AMD does this and that. Even if Intel was better than AMD, Intel could still be trashed if improvements per year are single-digit percentages. Similarily AMD got praise for 52% improvement even they still were behind Intel... AMD at least tries to improve, Intel don't.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Even if Intel was better than AMD, Intel could still be trashed if improvements per year are single-digit percentages.

Not by comparing them to subpar IPC. That is the only point I am trying to make with you. And yes Intel is better, they have been for a long time! But I know you will disagree. You just stated as much, which is more BS. You are literally trashing a company for being number one for at least 5 years. And you do it every time you enter an AMD conversation. That is like thumbing down the gold medalist. You really make it hard for Intel fans to congratulate you and AMD on their recent success, when you come in with all this non-sense. I'm happy for AMD. But I'm not gonna fall for AMD is better, when they are still yet barely on par with Intel. And that is even with Intel's 10nm troubles.

 

[HardReset]

Not by comparing them to subpar IPC. That is the only point I am trying to make with you. And yes Intel is better, they have been for a long time! But I know you will disagree. You just stated as much, which is more BS. You are literally trashing a company for being number one for at least 5 years. And you do it every time you enter an AMD conversation. That is like thumbing down the gold medalist. You really make it hard for Intel fans to congratulate you and AMD on their recent success, when you come in with all this non-sense. I'm happy for AMD. But I'm not gonna fall for AMD is better, when they are still yet barely on par with Intel. And that is even with Intel's 10nm troubles.

Wow! You asked why others trash Intel and I tried to explain you. Then you just got out of control

So I put it another way. Intel's IPC progress and manufacturing process progress has been subpar on last four years. So what happens when AMD releases Zen2? Then AMD has better IPC, higher clock speeds and lower power consumption. This is nothing new. Many companies get careless when they are market leaders. They abandon progress and former underdog is new king.

You see, if Intel's IPC progress would have been 5% per year like before, Intel would still have better IPC after Zen2 launch. That's why Intel is trashed. Intel had huge lead, soon it will be gone.

 

[hahahanoobs]

I have said this before, but...

Intel was trashed because of 5% IPC improvements when switching architecture.

AMD got 3% without architecture change. Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series have exactly same architecture.

For architectural IPC improvements:

Bulldozer-Piledriver ~15%
Piledriver-Steamroller ~10%
Steamroller-Excavator ~10%
Excavator-Zen ~50%
Zen-Zen 2 TBD



Getting 20 PCIe lanes more = rebrand

900 series is rebrand of 800 series. There you have point. Basically, AMD just wanted to tell "buy 900 series chipset = that is surely AM3+". Same thing with Ryzen 300- and 400- series: 400-series will have proper BIOS for 2000-series CPU, 300-series nor surely.

VRM phase control depends on motherboard, not chipset.

At least you got something right this time

3% with a process change. :|
A process change that was used to fix what was broken. Cache latency, memory compatibility, and clock bumps that still drags behind Intel's 14nm process performance today. A process change that still left a 2800 and 2800X off the table.

20 more PCIe lanes for what? To solidify it as THE premium gaming platform? For workstations? Hahaha - NO. Remember, this was long before NVMe and at a time multi-GPU setups were niche and unreliable. I had two 6950's and performance was trash. Back when Radeon was trashed by The Tech Report and Pcper for heavy micro-stutter. When frame times were introduced.

Ryzens' higher PCIe lane count goes unmentioned today. Lanes used by NVMe drives outside of the ones from the CPU (SoC) are poor at best for storage performance.
Back in the Bulldozer days, AMD lagged behind Intel chipsets when it came to SSD performance. See the trend here? If you missed it, Intel has been winning with less. AMD is so desperate they think more sales will come with bigger numbers. Think Fury X vs 980 Ti and Radeon VII vs RTX 2080. Over engineered and under delivered. Twice. In a row. All that waiting for nothing.

Keep waiting for AMD's smoking gun, because it isn't here yet.

 

[HardReset]

3% with a process change. :|
A process change that was used to fix what was broken. Cache latency, memory compatibility, and clock bumps that still drags behind Intel's 14nm process performance today. A process change that still left a 2800 and 2800X off the table.

AMD could have done that 3% even without process change. Samsung 14nm was never supposed to beat Intel's process in performance. AMD chose names 2700 and 2700X. It was possible to choose 2800 and 2800X instead.

320 more PCIe lanes for what? To solidify it as THE premium gaming platform? For workstations? Hahaha - NO. Remember, this was long before NVMe and at a time multi-GPU setups were niche and unreliable. I had two 6950's and performance was trash. Back when Radeon was trashed by The Tech Report and Pcper for heavy micro-stutter. When frame times were introduced.

You said it ws rebrand, it wasn't. You just said one reason why Nvidia no longer supports SLI and AMD is alsoditching Crossfire.

Ryzens' higher PCIe lane count goes unmentioned today. Lanes used by NVMe drives outside of the ones from the CPU (SoC) are poor at best for storage performance.
Back in the Bulldozer days, AMD lagged behind Intel chipsets when it came to SSD performance. See the trend here? If you missed it, Intel has been winning with less. AMD is so desperate they think more sales will come with bigger numbers. Think Fury X vs 980 Ti and Radeon VII vs RTX 2080. Over engineered and under delivered. Twice. In a row. All that waiting for nothing.

Of course they are. On AM4 AMD offers one good slot for NVMe, those who want more, should buy Threadripper.

Those differences were so small that nobody noticed. Radeon VII is rebrand of Radeon pro that is old architecture. In fact, only reason AMD even bothered to release it was Nvidia's hugely disappointing RTX series. There wasn't much to wait but at least it delivered what it promised.

Keep waiting for AMD's smoking gun, because it isn't here yet.

No problem.

 

[hahahanoobs]

AMD could have done that 3% even without process change. Samsung 14nm was never supposed to beat Intel's process in performance. AMD chose names 2700 and 2700X. It was possible to choose 2800 and 2800X instead.



You said it ws rebrand, it wasn't. You just said one reason why Nvidia no longer supports SLI and AMD is alsoditching Crossfire.



Of course they are. On AM4 AMD offers one good slot for NVMe, those who want more, should buy Threadripper.

Those differences were so small that nobody noticed. Radeon VII is rebrand of Radeon pro that is old architecture. In fact, only reason AMD even bothered to release it was Nvidia's hugely disappointing RTX series. There wasn't much to wait but at least it delivered what it promised.



No problem.

Weak damage control.
I feel like I'm talking to someone in the wccftech comments...

 

[Nightfire]

Weak damage control.
I feel like I'm talking to someone in the wccftech comments...

You are active in wccftech? Well, that explains your passion for a hardware brand.

 

[hahahanoobs]

You are active in wccftech? Well, that explains your passion for a hardware brand.

I go after whoever I feel deserves it at any given time. This isn't sports meaning I have no reason to give the side that can't make it to the championship game

You are active in wccftech? Well, that explains your passion for a hardware brand.

Not so fast. I know their rep and avoid the comments after attempting to talk tech there.

I go after whoever I feel deserves it at any given time. This isn't sports meaning I have no reason to give the side that can't win a championship any pity.

 

[MaikuTech]

Wow! You asked why others trash Intel and I tried to explain you. Then you just got out of control

So I put it another way. Intel's IPC progress and manufacturing process progress has been subpar on last four years. So what happens when AMD releases Zen2? Then AMD has better IPC, higher clock speeds and lower power consumption.

Sorry but clifford is right, this is why I left amd fx series for haswell and then onto kabylake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle

Oh yes amd has been improving without a doubt.
I like amd as much as I do intel when I first started using pc's in 1994.
However single base ipc per core per cycle is a good thing, it makes gaming emulation, programming and streaming, much better with less lag.
I hate overclocking amd chips just to match a performance by intel chip.

I could have went ryzen whatever but after watching it for a year, they are still behind intel at the moment.
Also intel is indeed improving behind the scenes.
Its just a matter of time before they put amd back in its place again. =/
"History Happens"
Here you go view this here, this is right before I upgraded my ram and hard drive specs.

 

[Nightfire]

I go after whoever I feel deserves it at any given time. This isn't sports meaning I have no reason to give the side that can't make it to the championship game


Not so fast. I know their rep and avoid the comments after attempting to talk tech there.

I go after whoever I feel deserves it at any given time. This isn't sports meaning I have no reason to give the side that can't win a championship any pity.

Some care only about Major Leagues (GTX xx80ti). Others are interested in Minor Leagues and College. (GTX xx80/70/60).

Volvo is not the Champion of all trucks over Toyota and Ford because it has a truck that can pull more than anything.

Also, my Dad can beat up your Dad.

 

[hahahanoobs]

Some care only about Major Leagues (GTX xx80ti). Others are interested in Minor Leagues and College. (GTX xx80/70/60).

Volvo is not the Champion of all trucks over Toyota and Ford because it has a truck that can pull more than anything.

Also, my Dad can beat up your Dad.

Don't forget the xx30 and xx50's. The majority only care about the low and midrange. That's where the most revenue comes from. High end is low demand but high profit.

Nvidia dominates across the board.
Intel still dominates in performance. AMD is only a player because of their lower prices.

Food for thought:
AMD notebooks had the highest gains in marketshare over desktop and server. Think about that...