AMD keeps chipping away at Intel in latest Steam survey, more gains for Ampere

texasrattler

Posts: 1,105   +513
Hardware enthusiasm is another thing, but in the field of PC components, there is no reason to pay for products to keep some company alive. If AMD would vanish, the government (USA) would take care of the monopoly of Intel. Either the government or other parties would fund development of a competing product, while Intel might be forced to open up patents and hand their designs over. There are other options too of course to mitigate the huge negative effects of a monopoly, like making strict deals between the company and the government.

AMD is growing now, which is very good for the balance of the marketspace, but you still should opt for the best possible deal you can get. Intel sooner or later seems to be quite competitive in the GPU space, while already being competitive in CPU space due to prices and availability. It just seems some people cannot fathom paying for "an inferior product", when there is technically something more advanced available like Ryzen 5000 series. Some people want the best, but I'm for the best deal possible. Free market is not for the simplest of people.

PS. I'm glad to see that most customers are smart by buying value products as the top of the chart is showing us, although the absence of RX 5600 XT and RX 5700 XT is little baffling? The drivers were bad for a long time though.
Let's also not forget that while AMD does have great processors, Intel has been using 14nm and still being very competitive. That alone means alot. Even the new 11th gen will still be 14nm but with a new design. 2022 will or could be a big year for processors. Lot of changes will be happening.
 

texasrattler

Posts: 1,105   +513
Unfortunately it looks like AMD is on the footsteps of nvidia... it's all because of the state the GPU market is in now, they can afford to increase prices too... not just nvidia.

The 6700XT was just announced now and instead of being a replacement for the 5700XT at $400 it's at $480 MSRP. So they upped the price because of these foolish people that pay any price... meh.

And we all know that the real store prices will be $500-$600 or even more depending on the location on the globe.
AMD on the footsteps of Nvidia LOL. Just stop. Nvidia hasn't ever taken their foot off on AMDs throat that got put there long ago. While AMD may finally be making headway back into the gpu market, its DOMINATED by Nvidia in a MASSIVE way, over 80 % marketshare, maybe even more and that even increased over the past year.
So while AMD may be back being competitive in the gpu market, they are only baby steps and are a long way off if ever to being anywhere near nvidia.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,035   +631
Let's also not forget that while AMD does have great processors, Intel has been using 14nm and still being very competitive. That alone means alot. Even the new 11th gen will still be 14nm but with a new design. 2022 will or could be a big year for processors. Lot of changes will be happening.

nm numbers are nothing more than marketing. And Intel's "current 14nm" is two generations newer than "original 14nm" (2015) btw.

AMD on the footsteps of Nvidia LOL. Just stop. Nvidia hasn't ever taken their foot off on AMDs throat that got put there long ago. While AMD may finally be making headway back into the gpu market, its DOMINATED by Nvidia in a MASSIVE way, over 80 % marketshare, maybe even more and that even increased over the past year.
So while AMD may be back being competitive in the gpu market, they are only baby steps and are a long way off if ever to being anywhere near nvidia.

No no and no. Intel dominates GPU market with around 60%, AMD and Nvidia are somewhat equal with 20% each.

Start getting facts right first and then write.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 125   +202
AMD on the footsteps of Nvidia LOL. Just stop. Nvidia hasn't ever taken their foot off on AMDs throat that got put there long ago. While AMD may finally be making headway back into the gpu market, its DOMINATED by Nvidia in a MASSIVE way, over 80 % marketshare, maybe even more and that even increased over the past year.
So while AMD may be back being competitive in the gpu market, they are only baby steps and are a long way off if ever to being anywhere near nvidia.
Clearly you did not understand what I said: "on the footsteps of nvidia" = pricing wise.

They used to have decent prices, at least for some of its GPUs, now there are no more decent prices, only scalper prices. Just like nvidia.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,016   +1,149
TechSpot Elite
The only concern about that is the new cards MSRP will be officially higher, more than it should be anyway, because of the people that bought at the current scalper prices - giving AMD and nvidia reason to raise them without worry in the future...

So, will Intel come to the rescue with their GPUs? That would be nuts! (I don't expect it though... but I wouldn't mind turning out to be true)
I'm afraid that Intel won't be saving anyone with the low levels of performance from their GPUs.
Its really surprising how the "sheep" keep flocking to Nvidia when AMD has GPUS that either match or pass their offering for less money.

Specially with the desire to get a RTX 3000 series.

As Kosmoz and I have said many times over and Steve from HU has said even more, RT and DLSS are present on maybe less than 10 games and the current hardware is barely able to allow a good experience, so I fail to see the need to want that.

But we know, we have this crazy need to feed our tribalism and "belong" to a brand/corporation white knights that is simply insane.

And before I am called a hypocrite, I like AMD, but I will call their cr@p out, instead of blindly defending them when they do anti-consumer cr@p like what Nvidia has done over and over.
Yep, you and I aren't AMD fanboys, we're Intel and nVidia haters, and much deserved, even if others are too blind to see it.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 125   +202
I'm afraid that Intel won't be saving anyone with the low levels of performance from their GPUs.
If you expect 3090/6900XT level of performance, you expect too much from Intel DG2, but if you expect 3070-ish then you will be in for a surprise. Soon™, this year.

That's the level of performance that me and the majority of gamers need. The halo products are bought only by the few %.

So it's all about how much Intel's 3070 competitor DG2 GPU will cost...
 

jpuroila

Posts: 314   +177
If you expect 3090/6900XT level of performance, you expect too much from Intel DG2, but if you expect 3070-ish then you will be in for a surprise. Soon™, this year.

That's the level of performance that me and the majority of gamers need. The halo products are bought only by the few %.

So it's all about how much Intel's 3070 competitor DG2 GPU will cost...
I don't know about that, expecting 3070-levels of performance seems highly optimistic even if on paper they should be able to deliver it.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 125   +202
I don't know about that, expecting 3070-levels of performance seems highly optimistic even if on paper they should be able to deliver it.
The leaks keep telling about 3070 to 3080 class performance, so I chose to take the lower tier one, which is very plausible, if you think logically.

The top DG2 will have 512 EU / 4096 shading units / 16GB of GDDR6 memory and that looks very much like a 3080/RX6800/XT competitor, but like I said, I'm setting my expectations lower.

Why would Intel launch their first discrete GPUs and not even have a mid field card? It makes no sense, it's Intel we're talking about, they don't want to be seen as a run of the mil company in anything they do...
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,016   +1,149
TechSpot Elite
If you expect 3090/6900XT level of performance, you expect too much from Intel DG2, but if you expect 3070-ish then you will be in for a surprise. Soon™, this year.

That's the level of performance that me and the majority of gamers need. The halo products are bought only by the few %.

So it's all about how much Intel's 3070 competitor DG2 GPU will cost...
I think perhaps some context is in order:
The only concern about that is the new cards MSRP will be officially higher, more than it should be anyway, because of the people that bought at the current scalper prices - giving AMD and nvidia reason to raise them without worry in the future...

So, will Intel come to the rescue with their GPUs? That would be nuts! (I don't expect it though... but I wouldn't mind turning out to be true)
I'm confused. First you say you don't expect it, then you say "Soon™" with the TM which means "whenever" and that I'll be surprised. You've seemingly contradicted your own original post that I replied to (and liked). Intel is not going to have RTX 3070 performance this year. They've only really been focusing on mobile discrete with some entry-level desktop cards for OEMs. PC Magazine was considerably less than impressed back in December:
First Tests: Intel Iris Xe Max Is No Gaming Powerhouse
Intel isn't going to make a jump from being only slightly better than an low-power AMD mobile APU designed for slimline craptops (with their best GPU design to date) to surpassing a discrete desktop RX 5700 XT card in less than a year.

Now, IF Intel GPUs manage to become competitive with the discrete GPU designs from ATi and nVidia, it will be at least five years from now if Intel's lucky. I am not in for any GTX 3070-ish (aka RTX 2080 Ti) "surprises" from Intel this year, and neither are you. Believing that Intel will reach that level this year is delusional fanboy territory as far as possible reality is concerned. Not even ATi or nVidia, two GPU designers that actually know what they're doing and have been doing it for decades can make jumps that large even over two generations. Intel isn't doing it in less than a year.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 125   +202
I think perhaps some context is in order:

I'm confused. First you say you don't expect it, then you say "Soon™" with the TM which means "whenever" and that I'll be surprised. You've seemingly contradicted your own original post that I replied to (and liked). Intel is not going to have RTX 3070 performance this year. They've only really been focusing on mobile discrete with some entry-level desktop cards for OEMs. PC Magazine was considerably less than impressed back in December:
First Tests: Intel Iris Xe Max Is No Gaming Powerhouse
Intel isn't going to make a jump from being only slightly better than an low-power AMD mobile APU designed for slimline craptops (with their best GPU design to date) to surpassing a discrete desktop RX 5700 XT card in less than a year.

Now, IF Intel GPUs manage to become competitive with the discrete GPU designs from ATi and nVidia, it will be at least five years from now if Intel's lucky. I am not in for any GTX 3070-ish (aka RTX 2080 Ti) "surprises" from Intel this year, and neither are you. Believing that Intel will reach that level this year is delusional fanboy territory as far as possible reality is concerned. Not even ATi or nVidia, two GPU designers that actually know what they're doing and have been doing it for decades can make jumps that large even over two generations. Intel isn't doing it in less than a year.
No contradiction whatsoever, when I said " (I don't expect it though... but I wouldn't mind turning out to be true) " I was talking about price, not performance. As in, I don't expect Intel to come with consumer friendly prices, like an underdog... but I would like it to be true.

As for DG2 being the equivalent of a 3070 or even 3080 performance, I don't know where do you take your information from, but all the leakers are saying this... unless you disregard leaks completely and just wait for official info. In that case wait 3-6 more months to get it from Intel, what the leakers already know.

Also, please don't turn this dicussion about trusting or not trusting leaks. We are not on the same page if you don't. And that I think is the main issue of you not knowing... actually not wanting to trust the leaks.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,016   +1,149
TechSpot Elite
Clearly you did not understand what I said: "on the footsteps of nvidia" = pricing wise.

They used to have decent prices, at least for some of its GPUs, now there are no more decent prices, only scalper prices. Just like nvidia.
This what I mean when I talk about the "non-cooperative" collusion of the gaming GPU industry. They're not in cahoots but instead of pricing based on desired margin, AMD is pricing ATi's GPUs according to what nVidia is charging. That's never good for consumers.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,016   +1,149
TechSpot Elite
No contradiction whatsoever, when I said " (I don't expect it though... but I wouldn't mind turning out to be true) " I was talking about price, not performance. As in, I don't expect Intel to come with consumer friendly prices, like an underdog... but I would like it to be true.

As for DG2 being the equivalent of a 3070 or even 3080 performance, I don't know where do you take your information from, but all the leakers are saying this... unless you disregard leaks completely and just wait for official info. In that case wait 3-6 more months to get it from Intel, what the leakers already know.

Also, please don't turn this dicussion about trusting or not trusting leaks. We are not on the same page if you don't. And that I think is the main issue of you not knowing... actually not wanting to trust the leaks.
I assure you that I do not, not have I ever, dismissed leaks out of hand. I used to read Charlie Demerjian back when he was with The Inquirer. I think that perhaps I missed the leak to which you're referring. It's very possible because I've been so pissed off about the lack of availability to the point that nothing seems to actually exist that I haven't been watching as much RedGamingTech as I usually do because what's the point in getting excited about the next upcoming paper launch?

I used to watch AdoredTV religiously before Jim decided not to cover tech anymore (can't say that I blame him) so my attention hasn't been on that side of things over the last month or two. It's hard to no longer hear the "Alright guys, how's it goin'?" with his Scottish brogue after so many years of taking it for granted. He really was the greatest TechTuber that I've ever seen IMO.

But hey, if what you say is true, that's great! We need more than just a duopoly in the GPU space, even if that third wheel is a company that I hate. I'd even welcome S3 and/or Matrox if they were to come up with something (they both still exist). If you could post a link to the leak you're referencing, it would be most appreciated. A performance jump that big in a span of time that short has never happened before (that I've ever seen or heard about and I've been building PCs since 1988) and I would be very interested to read it.

Eh, maybe I'm just becoming cynical about tech advancement in my old age. :laughing:
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 125   +202
I assure you that I do not, not have I ever, dismissed leaks out of hand. I used to read Charlie Demerjian back when he was with The Inquirer. I think that perhaps I missed the leak to which you're referring. It's very possible because I've been so pissed off about the lack of availability to the point that nothing seems to actually exist that I haven't been watching as much RedGamingTech as I usually do because what's the point in getting excited about the next upcoming paper launch?

I used to watch AdoredTV religiously before Jim decided not to cover tech anymore (can't say that I blame him) so my attention hasn't been on that side of things over the last month or two. It's hard to no longer hear the "Alright guys, how's it goin'?" with his Scottish brogue after so many years of taking it for granted. He really was the greatest TechTuber that I've ever seen IMO.

But hey, if what you say is true, that's great! We need more than just a duopoly in the GPU space, even if that third wheel is a company that I hate. I'd even welcome S3 and/or Matrox if they were to come up with something (they both still exist). If you could post a link to the leak you're referencing, it would be most appreciated. A performance jump that big in a span of time that short has never happened before (that I've ever seen or heard about and I've been building PCs since 1988) and I would be very interested to read it.

Eh, maybe I'm just becoming cynical about tech advancement in my old age. :laughing:
Here is the article from videocardz, they also name the source > https://videocardz.com/newz/specifications-of-intel-dg2-xe-hpg-gaming-gpu-family-emerge

There are more leaks (with the same info) from MLiD and RedGamingTech too, but the above one was the easiest to find.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,016   +1,149
TechSpot Elite
Here is the article from videocardz, they also name the source > https://videocardz.com/newz/specifications-of-intel-dg2-xe-hpg-gaming-gpu-family-emerge

There are more leaks (with the same info) from MLiD and RedGamingTech too, but the above one was the easiest to find.
Thanks Koz! I'll read it ASAP! :D

Ok, so I've read it and while it certainly looks promising, I don't see anything that actually screams "high-performance" because, while there are up to 512 Execution Units (EUs), there's no indication of how potent those EUs actually are. Will the actual GPU cores be as potent as nVidia's CUDA Cores or ATi's Stream Processors? It's like trying to figure out a CPU's IPC, impossible just from looking at specs. Then of course, there's also the question of how good the drivers will be because historically, Intel drivers have made AMD drivers look amazing.

Remember that it took Intel's most potent discrete mobile card to defeat an AMD mobile APU with a (three generations-old) Vega IGP. I mean, I could see this card having performance similar to (what would be called) an RX 5600 and in that scenario, it would still be a huge win for Intel because it will sell VERY well and being one generation behind sure isn't bad for your first kick at the can.

As for pricing, I just don't know because I've NEVER seen ANYTHING with Intel branding that wasn't overpriced or at least what anyone could call "cheap". The other thing is that if it's even half-decent at mining, it will be as MIA as tits competitors.

I seriously hope that Intel does well (for purely altruistic reasons because I sure as hell have no intention of buying anything that says "Intel" on it) for the sake of the people who are stuck with APU-level graphics or a GTX 1050.
 
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