AMD Ryzen 3600XT, 3800XT and 3900XT Review

Hardware Geek

Posts: 234   +222
Can the infinity favric clock rate be pushed higher than before? I understand wanting to refresh the lineup to boost sales before the next generation comes out, but as others have stated, this is a pretty pathetic increase
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,321   +3,424
Having bought a 7 3800X for a build for my wife, from an enthusiast standpoint, that boxed cooler is crap, in my not so humble opinion. It may be good enough for many, however, I wanted something that was good for a PC run in a warm room during summer months. The big thing that bothered me about the boxed cooler is that, on this one at least, the bottom of the cooler was basically jagged. It was not polished like pretty much all the coolers that I have ever had are. When I saw it, I told my wife it was crap and bought a Thermalright Ryzen cooler. If the boxed cooler had had a polished surface like the Thermalright cooler, I probably would not have bought the aftermarket cooler.

So on the X parts, the boxed cooler had no value for me. I wonder if AMD's decision to leave out the cooler on these XT parts came from enthusiast feedback about the boxed cooler on the X parts. From what I read, the boxed coolers seem to have an enthusiast mystique about them that was not, IMHO, warranted.

Honestly, I wish they had left out the cooler on the X parts. Due to the fact that these XT parts do not perform substantially better than the X parts, I have no regrets buying the X part. I bought it from B&H in a reasonably priced, to me anyway, bundle with Office 2020 - as my wife uses office, particularly Excel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shadowboxer

Shadowboxer

Posts: 756   +447
That publicity is not necessarily good, IMO.
We won’t see it very positively. But it will be good for AMD. The thing is, does behaviour like this stop you buying the CPU you want to buy? I don’t think so. Personally I don’t hold this against AMD, I have no expectation of a new product every year. But I will hold it against fans who believe AMD care about you more than Intel does.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 756   +447
Having bought a 7 3800X for a build for my wife, from an enthusiast standpoint, that boxed cooler is crap, in my not so humble opinion. It may be good enough for many, however, I wanted something that was good for a PC run in a warm room during summer months. The big thing that bothered me about the boxed cooler is that, on this one at least, the bottom of the cooler was basically jagged. It was not polished like pretty much all the coolers that I have ever had are. When I saw it, I told my wife it was crap and bought a Thermalright Ryzen cooler. If the boxed cooler had had a polished surface like the Thermalright cooler, I probably would not have bought the aftermarket cooler.

So on the X parts, the boxed cooler had no value for me. I wonder if AMD's decision to leave out the cooler on these XT parts came from enthusiast feedback about the boxed cooler on the X parts. From what I read, the boxed coolers seem to have an enthusiast mystique about them that was not, IMHO, warranted.

Honestly, I wish they had left out the cooler on the X parts. Due to the fact that these XT parts do not perform substantially better than the X parts, I have no regrets buying the X part. I bought it from B&H in a reasonably priced, to me anyway, bundle with Office 2020 - as my wife uses office, particularly Excel.
I agree, the AMD coolers are garbage. They are slightly less garbage than the Intel coolers. This is where the confusion lies I believe. Better than Intel doesn’t mean good. Same goes for the graphics in AMDs APUs. They are better than Intel but still garbage for most games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wiyosaya

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,321   +3,424
We won’t see it very positively. But it will be good for AMD. The thing is, does behaviour like this stop you buying the CPU you want to buy? I don’t think so. Personally I don’t hold this against AMD, I have no expectation of a new product every year. But I will hold it against fans who believe AMD care about you more than Intel does.
I am not expecting much, but personally, I hope that they do avoid the sIntel syndrome.

As I see it, enthusiasts are clearly the target for the XT refresh given the cooler was left out. All of the enthusiast review sites I have browsed (TPU, TS, Tom's) are saying the same thing - the parts in the refresh are not really a good value and do not bring much improvement. From my standpoint, that kind of publicity is potentially damaging to AMD's reputation in the enthusiast community.

Sales of these parts will tell AMD whether people are going to go for them emulating sIntel's "no performance improvement" behavior.

As you note, though, most of us will wait for Zen 3 rather than buy one of these parts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shadowboxer

Evernessince

Posts: 5,184   +5,514
I have never seen a rebrand as limited as this. In the Intel quad core days we would get better TIM and/or an actual noticeably different clock speed between the gens etc.

I am reaching the end of life for my outstanding i7 4790k. I had hoped these XT chips could offer more than the 10 series Intel parts in gaming for a more reasonable price. No such luck. I am firmly waiting until about this time next year (bonus time) and I’ll probably buy whichever brand can perform the quickest at games for under £1000 for the mobo, RAM and CPU.
This isn't a rebrand. A rebrand is when they change the series, not the model. AMD would have to call these 4000 series CPUs in order for it to be a rebrand.

This is a refresh. Big difference. AMD isn't implying these are new CPUs.
 

Puiu

Posts: 3,939   +2,450
I have never seen a rebrand as limited as this. In the Intel quad core days we would get better TIM and/or an actual noticeably different clock speed between the gens etc.

I am reaching the end of life for my outstanding i7 4790k. I had hoped these XT chips could offer more than the 10 series Intel parts in gaming for a more reasonable price. No such luck. I am firmly waiting until about this time next year (bonus time) and I’ll probably buy whichever brand can perform the quickest at games for under £1000 for the mobo, RAM and CPU.

Also, to all the fanboys, we’ve seen AMD backtrack on socket compatibility, raise their prices and milk a node for profit. Just like Intel. The two companies are the same. Stop treating AMD like they care about you. They don’t!
New CPUs are coming this year. As for the socket, they listened and changed it, unlike Intel. This is why people like AMD more compared to Intel. I've never seen Intel give a damn about regular PC customers, they only care about major OEMs and the server market. They actually did all they could to garner hatred from PC fans with their BS business decisions.

FYI the price hike for the new mobos from AMD is justified when you look at the components used and features. They're actually cheaper when you compare them to previous gen boards that had the same components and features
 
Last edited:

Shadowboxer

Posts: 756   +447
New CPUs are coming this year. As for the socket, they listened and changed it, unlike Intel.

FYI the price hike for the new mobos from AMD is justified when you look at the components used and features. They're actually cheaper when you compare them to previous gen boards that had the same components and features
Why are you rushing to AMDs defence? I don’t get it? These are multi billion dollar American corporations who have generally always treated us the same. And we will see about whether all users actually will get to upgrade. What worries me is that AMD will only allow these XT chips to go into B450 and X470, meaning you don’t really get future compatibility.

Also I made no complaint about AMDs “price hike” for mobos. I agree that generally yes you get a price hike but also an upgrade. To complain about the price hike is to me the same as people who complained that the RTX 2080 cost the same as a GTX 1080 yet performs the same but with more features. It’s only a complaint if you expected to get the same for less

Yes, while Intel fanboys buy a new motherboard every single time without complaining. Interesting double standards..
Not just Intel fanboys. I would suggest that many tech enthusiasts would also buy a new motherboard everytime and not complain. In fact I would say most do. If you’re an “enthusiast” why wouldn’t you be interested in the new features on a new motherboard? Or are things like fast M2 storage, PCIe4, USB C, Thunderbolt, faster memory support, better overclocking, better connectivity and RGB/fan controllers not things that a tech enthusiast would want? I’ve always bought a new board, for both AMD and Intel builds over the years. In fact in some cases I’ve even upgraded the board and not the CPU. Never have I looked at an ageing motherboard I’ve owned with no modern features and wished I could keep it.
 

Irata

Posts: 650   +851
TechSpot Elite
This is good publicity for AMD.
2 things:
- AMD is at the headline for a short time, reminding itself just before they announce new line-up
- This price increase (for no meaningful performance uplift) prepares the consumer for high prices of the new line-up.

I may be wrong, we will see.
Or alternatively it makes the regular X series look like a much better deal.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,321   +3,424
This is good publicity for AMD.
2 things:
- AMD is at the headline for a short time, reminding itself just before they announce new line-up
- This price increase (for no meaningful performance uplift) prepares the consumer for high prices of the new line-up.

I may be wrong, we will see.
For anyone paying attention, the headlines for AMD are nothing to speak of. Not worth it seems to be the summary from multiple tech review sites with side drones of they are adopting the sIntel business model - said with a derogatory tone.

On the one hand, I see your logic of this preparing the consumer for higher prices. On the other hand, if the XTs do not sell well that sends a message back to AMD along the lines of "we're not buying it".

At this point, with X parts still available, if I were to build again, I would not change my decision to by the X part. They are a better value even when buying an aftermarket cooler, IMO.

The question is when will the market push back? sIntel has pushed mediocre generation after mediocre generation at higher prices and with each generation requiring a new MB. We could argue that AMD's recent announcement of Zen 3 being the last generation to support AM4 sockets is somehow a slight to their customers. However, AMD has, IMO, been clear from the start that 2020 would bring the last of AM4.

The bigger issue for me, though, is the ever rising prices on CPUs and GPUs without substantial performance increases. Though it is clearly different, I will liken this to ever increasing cable/satellite subscription prices. The market has responded to those by, in general, consumers dropping traditional cable/satellite subscriptions.

We will see, but I tend to think that the similar market stresses are already present due to sIntel's actions, and the question now is, will consumers tolerate the identical stresses when imposed on them by AMD.

There are always those who do not care about costs; however, I think they are a much smaller segment of the marketplace than those who do care about costs.

Overall, I think there has been a detrimental effect on the market due to sIntel's actions - many out there are fed up with it. I doubt that that effect will disappear because AMD.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: trieste1s

Arbie

Posts: 70   +81
Only an AMD fanboy would applaud such a release.

And I am one. Good for you AMD! You're finally getting a chance to make money. Keep it up. You're a novice at milking but Intel is a good teacher. And one of the things they taught us very well is that we absolutely must have two big players in this market.

Intel will eventually come back swinging, with their tens of billions war-chest. Please, please be ready. If they stamp you out the next time around, we're done for.

Is AMD "starting to look like Intel"? Great - that's *exactly* what we need.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

Aryassen

Posts: 36   +45
Well, I didn't expect much, but this was even less than that. Still, nothing wrong with that, as long as the original Zen 2 products are available. And fortunately they are :)
I really don't get though what they wanted to achieve with this release? Zen 2 was doing really well, it was (and still is) flying off the shelves, so I really wonder what was the plan here?...
 

bluetooth fairy

Posts: 147   +92
XT stands for eXTreme, in my opinion. It is the fastest what you can get from AMD at every price point (or from core count perspective), for now and until the year end.

I like the naming, btw. It is better than something like i9-10850 or i3-10320.

I think they needed to respond on Intel 10th gen desktop parts in any way.

They have a.. tradition of making ''special'' model(s), see 2700X 50th ann edition, or graphics card models.

Also, there's a price drop from MSRP since the Zen2 launch, and somehow it may affect sales negatively. When two competing product's, eg 10600k and 3600X, price difference is too big, it may seem suspicious.

As for article, I'd like to see power consumption when OC'd either. Anyway, thanks for being reliable source for this kind of things.
 
Last edited:

Aryassen

Posts: 36   +45
Also, to all the fanboys, we’ve seen AMD backtrack on socket compatibility, raise their prices and milk a node for profit.
More information about "milk node for profit" and "backtrack on socket compatibility"?
I would be interested to see that too. As far as I can see, AMD "backtracked on the backtrack" (so now it seems that Zen 3 will be supported in B450/X470 at least), and prices are more or less the same for the entire Zen 2 range (I mean within normal fluctuation depending on exchange rates, at least in my country). "Milking node for profit" is plausible, though if the "old" product line is still available, at unchanged prices, that makes the "milking" part more like "voluntary contribution".

I am not a fan of this move from AMD (see my comment above), but let's not get straight to the other side of the proverbial horse...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Irata and Puiu

meric

Posts: 255   +194
For anyone paying attention, the headlines for AMD are nothing to speak of. Not worth it seems to be the summary from multiple tech review sites with side drones of they are adopting the sIntel business model - said with a derogatory tone.

On the one hand, I see your logic of this preparing the consumer for higher prices. On the other hand, if the XTs do not sell well that sends a message back to AMD along the lines of "we're not buying it".

At this point, with X parts still available, if I were to build again, I would not change my decision to by the X part. They are a better value even when buying an aftermarket cooler, IMO.

The question is when will the market push back? sIntel has pushed mediocre generation after mediocre generation at higher prices and with each generation requiring a new MB. We could argue that AMD's recent announcement of Zen 3 being the last generation to support AM4 sockets is somehow a slight to their customers. However, AMD has, IMO, been clear from the start that 2020 would bring the last of AM4.

The bigger issue for me, though, is the ever rising prices on CPUs and GPUs without substantial performance increases. Though it is clearly different, I will liken this to ever increasing cable/satellite subscription prices. The market has responded to those by, in general, consumers dropping traditional cable/satellite subscriptions.

We will see, but I tend to think that the similar market stresses are already present due to sIntel's actions, and the question now is, will consumers tolerate the identical stresses when imposed on them by AMD.

There are always those who do not care about costs; however, I think they are a much smaller segment of the marketplace than those who do care about costs.

Overall, I think there has been a detrimental effect on the market due to sIntel's actions - many out there are fed up with it. I doubt that that effect will disappear because AMD.
Publicity is publicity :) The XT line brings ZERO additional cost to AMD. These are the products of a matured process node, nothing else. They hit many birds with 1 stone. If the XT line doesn't sell, the vanillas will mean better value.
XTs could sell later with price cuts. This is an inventory clearing before new products. XTs don't come with a cooler (if I'm not wrong) but they offer a free game. In my opinion these are terrible value but every XT chip they can sell means better profit still. As for the rising prices, AMD has their reason on top of other reasons. I see they no longer want to be the cheaper alternative. And they need to earn a lot more to pay for their former debts, R&D etc. Intel is losing Apple but they still are strong with the OEM contracts. AMD needs more OEMs.
 

ruddevil

Posts: 21   +42
These good bins should've been moved to produce the 3300X. AMD would get more market share with it than these XTs.
 

Adhmuz

Posts: 2,020   +813
Yes, while Intel fanboys buy a new motherboard every single time without complaining. Interesting double standards..
I think this is a common misconception, at least if you poll people running Intel CPUs on this site, how many of us do you think have actually built a new PC ever time Intel comes out with a new socket?

I've personally bought 3 Intel motherboards in the last 10 years, two of which were even the same socket. I rocked X58, started with a 920 then bought a used X5660 and OC'd it until my current X99 build and even then I upgraded for feature set more than lack of performance, and see no reason to upgrade right now either. If I go back another 10 years it was the same story, 3 motherboards and two CPU generations, although I was admitted making far less money to spend on these things.

My latest build is showing no signs of slowing down, and after tinkering with some recent AMD Ryzens I can without a doubt say I'll be likely to buy Intel when I do finally decide to upgrade again. I don't know if I was just unlucky with the hardware I was building, or this is just what you have to expect from AMD, but I can without doubt say it was some of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had with custom built PCs.

Don't get me wrong here, I do applaud AMD for what they've done and what they'll force Intel to finally do, but I'll gladly pay more for piece of mind and confidence in what I'm getting will work and last a long time as this had been my experience with Intel for the last 20 years. I just wish I could say the same of AMD, maybe one day.
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,469   +1,439
TechSpot Elite
That's a single bad experience and of course a bad one is gonna taint your view. As another anecdote I'll mention that the first PC I ever built was a Ryzen 3 1200 and I had zero problems. With the cheapest B350 board available at the time and the cheapest DDR4 with decent speed (2933 MHz). It just worked, for a first time builder.

2 years later that's now been upgraded to a Ryzen 5 1600AF with 3200 MHz DDR4 with the requisite BIOS update. I OC'd the R5 1200 to 3.7 with a modest overvolt but I've been too lazy to OC the 1600AF so far. It's such an improvement over the 1200 in the places I needed it to be that it's not worth the effort yet.

Since that one I've built an Intel and then another Ryzen, no problems with either. I see no problems with choosing either Ryzen or Intel if the specs fit the need.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Irata and Lounds