AMD says to follow Reddit's advice if you've got USB connectivity issues

kiwigraeme

Posts: 261   +227
I'm going to hold judgement - If I was AMD I would want to buy up a number of these problem systems .
I can understand both sides - I hate it when my PC I paid for does run well.
However this seems a very niggly problem - problems you can not replicate with ease always are .
Is it too many things have to line up? - and it they all out in sum by of more than X% .
Add in MB components and quality , add in software .

I would hazard a guess - it probably can be fixed by bios - by juggling processes & timings, possibly power draw .

However if it really only an isolated problem- quality systems , high quality parts suggest most folks built it themselves - so know how to go to reddit etc - so number complaining to total problems ratio must be quite high . If so AMD could cover it - fix problem - sell of parts -( or those not affecting problem )
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,034   +629
Nonsense. I have exactly the same things I had on my 9900k which NEVER had a single usb disconnect issue as my 5950x setup has
Stop making up excuses for AMD. Fanboys do not help anyone.

Not nonsense but better understanding. I had memory module that worked on AMD system but did not work on Intel system. Using your logic: module works on AMD so there cannot be nothing wrong with it, conclusion: Intel is crap. Simple as that.

Not to mention memory module is in many ways much less complex than USB device. Believe me, there are Intel systems that have problems with USB devices, I have encountered many. It's just not that simple as you think it is.

If this was Intel making such a statement to disable stuff, you will be burning them at the stake!

Like totally disabling Intel Management Engine (IME) because of security hole?
 

DukeJukem

Posts: 173   +159
Come on guys....the best piece of evidence we have is its the motherboard. They mention the x570 and b550 chipsets while also stating the evidence shows its happening more frequently when users are also using an rtx 3000 series card. There is no specific/hard evidence that it's the actual cpu from AMD. None. Therefore AMD doesn't have to refund or RMA anything if you're outside of the return date/refund policy from wherever you bought it. The warranty from AMD themselves would cover the issue if it was CPU related but again, no hard evidence that it's actually the cpu especially when there are users having 0 issues on said setups. The people having issues are having USB port issues, not cpu issues. Everything the cpu is advertised to do is being done. If the case went to court any lawyer/judge with a brain would dimiss the case. Lack of evidence. It's that simple. AMD looks like the bad guy here and I understand that but they're not required to do anything until the cause of the issue is proven to be the cpu. Finally, all of the workarounds that are having success have nothing to do with tweaking the cpu at all in the BIOS.
 

mosu

Posts: 553   +193
Are you actually aware of the facts here? The issue is with AMD products and AMD have announced they are working on a fix. They are saying it’s their issue!

But here you are pathetically defending them. You really can’t bear to hear criticism against that beloved corporation of yours can you? Maybe you can tell us how AMD are working on a fix despite it not being their problem to fix?


Oh and AMD not being able to replicate the issue tells us more about AMDs support teams than it does about the issue itself at this point.

Mate, I really hope that company is paying you something to get you to continue to humiliate yourself on here..
The phrase "look who's talking" comes to mind when I see an ShIntel supporter so fiercely blaming AMD for an unclear issue.Do you even own an AMD system?
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 309   +295
Why? Why should AMD refund anything? There is no proof problem is AMD hardware or drivers.



What AMD has acnowledged? AMD said they are investigating issue but still cannot say What is causing issue? Just because there is issue does not mean it's AMD's fault in any way.



AMD is unable to replicate problem so probably problem is somewhere else people think it is. Or this is another Intel fueled smear campaign.



AMD didn't admit anything.



AMD didn't admit problem is on AMD hardware or software.
I wonder what motherboards these people are running? There might as you say be a good chance this could be a motherboard vendor issue and not an AMD issue, it's like the NVidia early 3000 GPUs that people blamed NVidia for when in fact it was AIBs using Inferior poscaps. This issue could be a motherboard issue in which case I would say may be more likely Gigabyte Intel boards had a huge amount of issues with usb that sound very similar at one point.
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 309   +295
Come on guys....the best piece of evidence we have is its the motherboard. They mention the x570 and b550 chipsets while also stating the evidence shows its happening more frequently when users are also using an rtx 3000 series card. There is no specific/hard evidence that it's the actual cpu from AMD. None. Therefore AMD doesn't have to refund or RMA anything if you're outside of the return date/refund policy from wherever you bought it. The warranty from AMD themselves would cover the issue if it was CPU related but again, no hard evidence that it's actually the cpu especially when there are users having 0 issues on said setups. The people having issues are having USB port issues, not cpu issues. Everything the cpu is advertised to do is being done. If the case went to court any lawyer/judge with a brain would dimiss the case. Lack of evidence. It's that simple. AMD looks like the bad guy here and I understand that but they're not required to do anything until the cause of the issue is proven to be the cpu. Finally, all of the workarounds that are having success have nothing to do with tweaking the cpu at all in the BIOS.
Ty, just stated this.
There could be a multitude of issues going on here, and there is no direct correlation as an example I am running Asus Crosshair CH8 x570 hero with a 5900x and a 3080 Asus Strix gpu...I have zero problems other than my smartphone not fast charging off my Phanteks P500A front type C port and I am fully loaded with 2 Corsair Commanders and a rats nest of wiring and devices plugged into the back of the computer, also my Rift S works just fine and that is one of the most finicky devices.
 

bviktor

Posts: 356   +634
So their workaround involves disabling PCI-E 4. Too bad that's pretty much the ONLY reason to get these chipsets lol.

In any case, now I remember why I ditched AMD back in the day. They can't do software. They just can't. Now my B450 board randomly won't boot. Like 30% of the time. I press reset, and then it's fine. I just accepted that it's part of everyday life with AMD. Oh and XMP randomly freezes the comp, too. I could probably go on, but you get the idea. That's just AMD SW QA for ya. Deal with it.
 

Dimitriid

Posts: 287   +495
We still don't know if it's AMD problem at all...

It is, because they're the platform developers: They create the CPUs, the microcode, the chipset and certify motherboards as compatible with their products. You're not engaging with the actual arguments I am listing here and just want to find some technical excuse to imply the problem doesn't exists when AMD responding at all should be sufficient acknowledgement it's not people imagining things or weird, fringe cases.

Sorry to say but there's nothing else for me (Or for that matter, most people taking the topic seriously) to discuss with you, so I just wont.
 

yRaz

Posts: 3,574   +3,460
It is, because they're the platform developers: They create the CPUs, the microcode, the chipset and certify motherboards as compatible with their products. You're not engaging with the actual arguments I am listing here and just want to find some technical excuse to imply the problem doesn't exists when AMD responding at all should be sufficient acknowledgement it's not people imagining things or weird, fringe cases.

Sorry to say but there's nothing else for me (Or for that matter, most people taking the topic seriously) to discuss with you, so I just wont.
Does this problem happen in Linux? From the data that's available to me online I doesn't not appear that way. If it is not it could be more on the side of the dumpster fire that is Windows 10.

We don't know what is causing this. I would also like to mention that just because AMD is the platform developer, the minute they sell chips to Gigabyte or Asus and they slap their name with product warranty on it, it is no longer an "AMD" product.

The idea that the only link we have is that this is happening to 3000 and 5000 series ryzen chips on 500 series motherboards strongly points to the idea that this is a motherboard problem. To me this looks like a motherboard chipset problem which would make issuing refunds for CPU's pointless. This issue isn't happening on 3000 series chips on non-500 series chipsets. From the information available to us, this seems like a Windows 10 problem with 500 series chipsets and a small one at that.

But we also have to bring up the idea that AMD issuing refunds for this would be an admission of guilt on their part. They could be sued to hell and back in a class action lawsuit if they did something like this. This is a strategic business decision because the issue probably isn't AMD's fault. If they start issuing refunds lawyers will "make" it AMDs fault.

 

Dimitriid

Posts: 287   +495
Does this problem happen in Linux? From the data that's available to me online I doesn't not appear that way. If it is not it could be more on the side of the dumpster fire that is Windows 10.

We don't know what is causing this. I would also like to mention that just because AMD is the platform developer, the minute they sell chips to Gigabyte or Asus and they slap their name with product warranty on it, it is no longer an "AMD" product.

The idea that the only link we have is that this is happening to 3000 and 5000 series ryzen chips on 500 series motherboards strongly points to the idea that this is a motherboard problem. To me this looks like a motherboard chipset problem which would make issuing refunds for CPU's pointless. This issue isn't happening on 3000 series chips on non-500 series chipsets. From the information available to us, this seems like a Windows 10 problem with 500 series chipsets and a small one at that.

But we also have to bring up the idea that AMD issuing refunds for this would be an admission of guilt on their part. They could be sued to hell and back in a class action lawsuit if they did something like this. This is a strategic business decision because the issue probably isn't AMD's fault. If they start issuing refunds lawyers will "make" it AMDs fault.

I'm not sure there's even enough people using the combination of hardware on Linux to determine this and if it is, I am also unsure if some of the features causing issues have been already supported on Linux (And enough people using them and for long enough timeline to determine)

In any case I think I must reiterate most of the comments I made to someone else already on this thread: if AMD officially supports windows then it's on them to find it and fix it in collaboration with Microsoft. A software incompatibility with new hardware still basically means the hardware is unusable as advertised since we can easily establish AMD heavily promotes Windows 10 use with their products. Waiting for discovering and providing a software solution should be a consumer option, not the only consumer option as opting for a refund is again, not unreasonable if AMD said their product line and platform would work with Windows 10, which they did.

As for this being a "business strategy" not to accept any wrong doing to avoid legal issues well, I'm not saying that isn't the case but that'd be the worst kind of anti consumer behavior possible on AMD's part: let paying customers get stuck with a faulty product or pass the issues along to all retail partners to avoid admitting to any wrong doing.

But if that's the case, well they already botched the strategy by replying at all to the issue and even suggesting known work arounds so the plausible deniability is pretty firmly out of the window now. Even if someone wanted to concede AMD should care more about preserving their business strategy over knowingly delivering faulty products (Which again, it's just unsustainable and flatout illegal to do from a consumer standpoint) they probably can't do that anymore at this point.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,043   +2,025
I've built three AMD systems last year, two B550 and one X570. X570 has a 5900x, and the two B550's (one normal ATX and one Mini-ITX) have a 3600x and 5800x. All have overclocked RAM at either 3200MHz or 3600MHz.
All of them have PCI-E Gen4 NVMe as boot drives or more, only one of them has a PCI-E 4.0 GPU.

All I can say is, I've had no issues at all with BIOS, chipset USB's etc... I've had some weird issues getting RAM to overclock but that's about it.

I'd be surprised if this issue is properly far reaching and not just a loud minority, we are in a pandemic, not much else to do...
 

Dimitriid

Posts: 287   +495
I've built three AMD systems last year, two B550 and one X570. X570 has a 5900x, and the two B550's (one normal ATX and one Mini-ITX) have a 3600x and 5800x. All have overclocked RAM at either 3200MHz or 3600MHz.
All of them have PCI-E Gen4 NVMe as boot drives or more, only one of them has a PCI-E 4.0 GPU.

All I can say is, I've had no issues at all with BIOS, chipset USB's etc... I've had some weird issues getting RAM to overclock but that's about it.

I'd be surprised if this issue is properly far reaching and not just a loud minority, we are in a pandemic, not much else to do...

This is the most aggravating thing anybody can say when someone is facing hardware issues: "I've build 3 systems and they all work fine" All it does is attempting to excuse and divert any attention away from AMD and gets in the way of people getting their issues addressed because you were able to determine the product is fine since the 3 single grains of sand were fine when we're looking at a mile long beach worth of sand here.
 

yRaz

Posts: 3,574   +3,460
I'm not sure there's even enough people using the combination of hardware on Linux to determine this and if it is, I am also unsure if some of the features causing issues have been already supported on Linux (And enough people using them and for long enough timeline to determine)

In any case I think I must reiterate most of the comments I made to someone else already on this thread: if AMD officially supports windows then it's on them to find it and fix it in collaboration with Microsoft. A software incompatibility with new hardware still basically means the hardware is unusable as advertised since we can easily establish AMD heavily promotes Windows 10 use with their products. Waiting for discovering and providing a software solution should be a consumer option, not the only consumer option as opting for a refund is again, not unreasonable if AMD said their product line and platform would work with Windows 10, which they did.

As for this being a "business strategy" not to accept any wrong doing to avoid legal issues well, I'm not saying that isn't the case but that'd be the worst kind of anti consumer behavior possible on AMD's part: let paying customers get stuck with a faulty product or pass the issues along to all retail partners to avoid admitting to any wrong doing.

But if that's the case, well they already botched the strategy by replying at all to the issue and even suggesting known work arounds so the plausible deniability is pretty firmly out of the window now. Even if someone wanted to concede AMD should care more about preserving their business strategy over knowingly delivering faulty products (Which again, it's just unsustainable and flatout illegal to do from a consumer standpoint) they probably can't do that anymore at this point.

While YOU might not know lots of people using Linux on AMD machines, I do. I'm fairly involved in the Linux community. Ryzen CPUs and Threadrippers are basically the go to for anyone wanting to build a home lab. I have multiple Ryzen systems running VMs and game servers. I have not seen any issues like this on the Gentoo, Ubuntu or Mint forums. And, trust me, people post about ALL their Linux problems on those forums. As a Linux user, most Linux users think they're geniuses and never shut up about Linux.

If I haven't seen this issue mentioned on the thousands of posts I've read on various Linux forums, 2 things are possible. 1) The issue doesn't exist or 2) so few people are actually experiencing it that the sample size I'm working with has yet to experience it.

Now my best guess as to what this problem might be on the hardware side of things is that there was a bad batch of chips(not chipsets) used in various motherboards causing instability issues. The chip shortage caused manufactures to loosen their tolerances on chips to increase production. This makes sense to me on a hardware side because 1)the fix involves power management, 2)stability issues outside of overclocking are often caused by "unclean" power as I like to call it and 3) These OEMS share many of the same suppliers, out of spec parts could explain the difficulty of recreating this problem.

Now I want to be clear on something here, I'm not trying to defend AMD as some sort of shill. It's just that this problem can't even properly be recreated in a lab. How are you supposed to fix a problem that can't be found? Frankly, if I was AMD I'd buy people new systems and take the old hardware back just so they can recreate the issue on "known" bad hardware.
 
I have a 5800X, Asus ROG Strix X570-F and RTX 3080, which all should apparently cause issues, but I haven't had anything like this. All ports work fine all the time, GPU and NVME drives get the correct performance numbers. Have an 850w Corsair PSU, 2x 8GB 3200mhz Corsair ram, sabrent 1tb SSD. Not sure if it might be PSU related like others said, but I don't think the issue is directly related to ryzen CPUs, I think the issue is within the chipset of the board and/or board settings that maybe some boards have or don't have turned on.
 

0dium

Posts: 189   +221
Does this problem happen in Linux? From the data that's available to me online I doesn't not appear that way. If it is not it could be more on the side of the dumpster fire that is Windows 10.
I've got older hardware and usb disconnection happened to me a few times. Before latest Windows update everything worked fine
 
I've got older hardware and usb disconnection happened to me a few times. Before latest Windows update everything worked fine

Actually this reminds me, my old build which had a 4690k with a H81 motherboard had random USB disconnections. Mainly my external HDD would stop being detected, I was convinced it was an issue with the motherboard, but it might've been windows 10 related. I was running the newest up to date version of W10 as of a few months ago
 

Bp968

Posts: 207   +153
Why should AMD take back 5000-series CPU since there is zero evidence problem is on CPU?

Customer goodwill? Because they would be returning a product that is in such demand that amd can't fill all their orders, so its not like doing so would damage them in any way.

Honestly, major companies should almost *always* be willing to take back products that are being returned for reasonable reasons. You'll find many top tier products in the low volume category are often covered by "no BS" return warranties. Your unhappy? Fine, return it, clearly its not for you. But we stand behind our product (and likely they wont have any trouble finding a new home for your return).

Thats just confidence.

Ill be interested to see how this plays out. If AMD truely is denying returns on the issue it worries me that it might actually be something serious (because if they take returns now, then discover its an issue with all 5000 series cpus and they need a redesign.. well ouch. Turning the spigots off then would be rather difficult).
 

Bp968

Posts: 207   +153
I have a 5800X, Asus ROG Strix X570-F and RTX 3080, which all should apparently cause issues, but I haven't had anything like this. All ports work fine all the time, GPU and NVME drives get the correct performance numbers. Have an 850w Corsair PSU, 2x 8GB 3200mhz Corsair ram, sabrent 1tb SSD. Not sure if it might be PSU related like others said, but I don't think the issue is directly related to ryzen CPUs, I think the issue is within the chipset of the board and/or board settings that maybe some boards have or don't have turned on.

That seems unlikely. Primarily because the issue spans two different series of chipsets (x570 and b550) and *doesnt* seem to be happening on 3000 series cpus. So 5000 series cpu *and* a 570 or 550 board is required. Well, we think its required, but the reality is how many people have 5000 series cpus on x470 boards to even test? Are their even any x470 boards with updated firmware yet that support 5000 series cpus?
 

SixTymes

Posts: 124   +84
Bahahaha! people have to turn to reddit for help. talk about brain washed fan boys. whats next, bull dozer cores that don't actually exists? oh wait, that happened already. enjoy your buggy bios and bricked systems. I learned my lesson years ago, never again amd.
 
That seems unlikely. Primarily because the issue spans two different series of chipsets (x570 and b550) and *doesnt* seem to be happening on 3000 series cpus. So 5000 series cpu *and* a 570 or 550 board is required. Well, we think its required, but the reality is how many people have 5000 series cpus on x470 boards to even test? Are their even any x470 boards with updated firmware yet that support 5000 series cpus?

Ive just built a system using Ryzen 3600 (5600x nowhere to be found in NZ atm), Asus B550 and 6800XT...
Can confirm that the 3000 series CPU system is also experiencing drop-outs, not tied to just 5000 series... just saying.
 

Makste

Posts: 134   +93
Communication is key, and it is a big thing. I've been robbed by corporations before, but once they acknowledge it and not invalidate the issue and make promises, I generally let the issue pass. In a nutshell, I'm liking this attempt.
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,410   +3,221
TechSpot Elite
Or it could be something as *****ic as Windows mishanding some interrupt requests on PCIe4 on the AMD platform leading to piling of latency until a perpipheral is timed-out. It can be anything! Old-school people surely remember IRQ conflicts back in the day, what didwedo then to mitigate? Disable unused peripherals, disable power saving, anything tto reduce bus traffic until we figured out on forums it was (most often) the crap Creative drivers.
If AMD addresses it now, that's way more than what used to be the accepted practice a few years ago - doing nothing.
Oh god, IRQ conflicts were a nightmare.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,034   +629
It is, because they're the platform developers: They create the CPUs, the microcode, the chipset and certify motherboards as compatible with their products. You're not engaging with the actual arguments I am listing here and just want to find some technical excuse to imply the problem doesn't exists when AMD responding at all should be sufficient acknowledgement it's not people imagining things or weird, fringe cases.

Sorry to say but there's nothing else for me (Or for that matter, most people taking the topic seriously) to discuss with you, so I just wont.

No. AMD does NOT certify motherboards, it's motherboard maker's problem to make it work with AMD CPU. Exactly same with Intel. Same way memory manufacturers do not certify motherboard makers or other way around. Well, perhaps on very expensive ones but not consumer ones. Always good idea to get facts right.

Actually this reminds me, my old build which had a 4690k with a H81 motherboard had random USB disconnections. Mainly my external HDD would stop being detected, I was convinced it was an issue with the motherboard, but it might've been windows 10 related. I was running the newest up to date version of W10 as of a few months ago

It's somewhat strange Windows 10 updates have not been closed out as problem source. Much easier than looking hardware problems.

Ill be interested to see how this plays out. If AMD truely is denying returns on the issue it worries me that it might actually be something serious (because if they take returns now, then discover its an issue with all 5000 series cpus and they need a redesign.. well ouch. Turning the spigots off then would be rather difficult).

AMD does not allow returns because in that case they basically admit it's their fault. And on that case, if problem is somewhere else, AMD have much harder to solve Real problem since AMD already admitted they have problem. Just for example, assuming that problem is Windows 10. AMD allows returns. Because AMD takes the blame, Microsoft have no need to fix anything since problem was AMD and not Windows 10...

I know you arent referring to me, I’m not Intel supporter.

And yes I do own a Ryzen 5000 system. And I’m not actually blaming AMD for the issue, although it is likely their fault. I’m blaming AMD for the way they are treating users suffering from that issue. It’s anti-consumer bs and shame on anyone defending them for it.

Instead blaming AMD for everything, tell what they could have done better. At this point, basically nothing.