AMD's upcoming AM5 socket for Raphael processors appears to lack PCIe 5.0 support

[Daniel Sims]

In brief: According to TechPowerUp, the socket for AMD's next generation of CPUs will not support PCIe 5.0. This information reportedly came from the ransomware attack Gigabyte suffered earlier this month. Gigabyte's attackers threatened to leak a massive amount of data if it didn't pay up, including confidential documents from AMD.

TechPowerUp's sources familiar with the ransomware attack on Gigabyte provided them with a block diagram of the AM5 socket, showing its connections to other components. AM5 is the socket used for AMD's upcoming Zen4 Ryzen 6000 CPUs, reportedly codenamed Raphael. The diagram shows many PCIe 4.0 connections, but none of which are 5.0.

Of the 28 PCIe 4.0 lanes in the diagram, 16 are devoted to discrete graphics, four to an m.2 slot for NVME, another four to a USB controller, and another four to the AM5 chipset.

When the RansomExx group attacked Gigabyte, it threatened to leak 112 GB of its data if the company didn't pay a ransom. That includes communications between Gigabyte and Intel, AMD, and American Megatrends, some of which are still under NDA.

Earlier this week, CyberNews reported eRansomExx published around 7GB of that data on its website. The author of the post leaking the two-part archive claims the first part contains data from AMD -- presumably including the AM5 diagram, and the second part contains internal documents and the source code for Intel's Manageability Commander.

AMD currently plans to launch the Zen4 CPUs, along with its RDNA 3 graphics chips, next year. Intel's upcoming 12-generation "Alder Lake" CPUs, the first of which should be coming later this year, will support PCIe 5.0.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/90888-amd-upcoming-am5-socket-raphael-processors-appears-lack.html

 

[Adi6293]

Not exactly a big deal since even 4.0 isn't really needed by 99% of PC users, I'm using 3.0 and I'm fine but I can see Intel fanboys use this as a weapon against them when they were they ones who said 4.0 didn't matter....

 

[paul1122]

Pre review AMD smash. Nice. Keep up the good work.

 

[fps4ever]

Meh, its a gimmick until faster NvME drives come out and pretty much not needed for graphics cards as of yet. They are after all "supposed" to be economy cpu's and you will never get all the PCIE lanes to begin with like performance motherboards....cough.

 

[Azurelas]

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like PCIE4 has barely had time to truly stretch it's legs. Hell, even most modern SSDs don't max-out the bandwidth.

 

[punctualturn]

Pre review AMD smash. Nice. Keep up the good work.

Really strange how this site seems to be posting fluff pro nvida articles on a daily basis and the few AMD articles they post are only on a negative side.

And dont get me started in the draconian censorship that is the barrage of removed comments that dont fit their narrative.

 

[veLa]

And dont get me started in the draconian censorship that is the barrage of removed comments that dont fit their narrative.

It's not the brand agenda that's the problem for me, it's the censorship.

 

[Nanochip]

When intel was still on pcie3, amd fanboys said “intel is terrible, mired in stagnation, can’t innovate anymore, Intel is dead.”

Now that Intel has forged ahead leading the industry with pcie5 while amd is stuck on pcie4 for years, it’s “well no one needs pcie5, it’s a gimmick, there’s no discernible difference between pcie3.0 and pcie4.0 so who even needs pcie5, blah blah blah.”

Kinda amusing and sad simultaneously.

 

[Kosmoz]

This is at least 1 year away and the leaked/hacked data may be old/older, we don't know.

I think it's still possible the real AM5 when it's officially announced before the launch to actually have PCIe 5.0.

Intel fanbois should not rejoice yet, it's not over.

P.S. Also as a side note: the majority of gamers are still on PCIe. 3.0 (myself included) and it's fine, so there is a lot of room for 4.0 to grow before going to 5.0.
Only the smug elitists need 5.0 for bragging rights (with the exception of pro-sumers).

 

[Lionvibez]

Hell, even most modern SSDs don't max-out the bandwidth.

All of the E18 controller and newer models are already hitting max bandwidth on PCIe 4.0.

However I think this is fine for AMD as PCie 5.0 is needed more in the server market than consumer. And most consumers don't have workflows that use all that bandwidth.

 

[mountains]

I will not be (unfortunately) starting a new PC rig for a while, but give me PCie 5.0 when I do. I don't care, Intel or AMD. Whichever makes sense at the time.

I keep PC's for a long time and tend to stuff a lot of things in them.

Give us more lanes!

 

[Shadowboxer]

Lots of people claiming that pcie5 isn’t needed for gaming, neither is Pcie4 really. But it’s sensible to buy the fastest spec. This will hurt AMD.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Really strange how this site seems to be posting fluff pro nvida articles on a daily basis and the few AMD articles they post are only on a negative side.

And dont get me started in the draconian censorship that is the barrage of removed comments that dont fit their narrative.

This is valid news pal, Techspot would be biased if they didn’t report it. You need to mentally prepare yourself, AMD are about to get smashed by Intel. Maybe in GPUs as well as CPUs. But fear not dear fanboy, AMD will return, they always do.

 

[Irata]

Meh, its a gimmick until faster NvME drives come out and pretty much not needed for graphics cards as of yet. They are after all "supposed" to be economy cpu's and you will never get all the PCIE lanes to begin with like performance motherboards....cough.

Fun fact: Alder Lake does not support PCIe 5.0 for NVMe drives. It‘s x16 PCIe 5.0 lanes for the PCIe slot (GPU), x4 PCIe 4.0 lanes for NVMe and ‚up to’ x8 3.0 lanes for the chipset connection according to the information that‘s out there.

So with a current gen PCIe 4 GPU, you can use one PCIe 4 nVME, one less than on current X570 systems.

It may be possible to split the x16 lanes into 2x8 or even split off 8 for nVME. We‘ll see.

When intel was still on pcie3, amd fanboys said “intel is terrible, mired in stagnation, can’t innovate anymore, Intel is dead.”

Now that Intel has forged ahead leading the industry with pcie5 while amd is stuck on pcie4 for years, it’s “well no one needs pcie5, it’s a gimmick, there’s no discernible difference between pcie3.0 and pcie4.0 so who even needs pcie5, blah blah blah.”

Kinda amusing and sad simultaneously.

The difference is that everything was PCIe 4.0 with X570 - slots, nVME and the chipset connection. So it‘s full PCIe 4 vs partial PCIe 5,4 and afaik 3 mix.

There were also plenty that complained about the more expensive mainboards due to that.

I‘d say if you want to keep your system for a very long time, having the latest IO standard is a plus, but it depends how much that plus costs and when you actually start to see the benefits. For X570, there were at least a few devices on PCIe 4, well see when the first PCIe 5 cards (GPU ?) are released.

For me personally spending over €100+ more for an X570 vs B450 board was not worth it at the time.

 

[Rayneofpayne]

Not exactly a big deal since even 4.0 isn't really needed by 99% of PC users, I'm using 3.0 and I'm fine but I can see Intel fanboys use this as a weapon against them when they were they ones who said 4.0 didn't matter....

It kind of is a big deal because of the feature sets 5 brings like cxl support which is a game changer.

 

[Beerfloat]

Really strange how this site seems to be posting fluff pro nvida articles on a daily basis and the few AMD articles they post are only on a negative side.

And dont get me started in the draconian censorship that is the barrage of removed comments that dont fit their narrative.

There are quite a few AMD-related posts. Sure, some are not good news. Some reviews and features mention the things that are less than optimal. It's really not any different with Nvidia posts, though.

Draconian? Yeah, please don't get started. They're very lenient letting so many of your off-topic ultra-biased rants stand!

 

[Rayneofpayne]

Lots of people claiming that pcie5 isn’t needed for gaming, neither is Pcie4 really. But it’s sensible to buy the fastest spec. This will hurt AMD.

Well actually, *"ignorant"* that clearly just think it's a bandwidth increase then, there is more than just raw bandwidth for GPUs to be concerned with, like feature sets, like CXL that is a complete game changer for the way devices or co-processors, yeah that is your GPU, in the PCIe pipeline are handled.

*"* I am calling ignorant because of a lack of knowledge while making judgements about a tech commenters apparently are not informed about which is the proper term and not to be meant in an inherently demeaning way like most people perceive it thanks to bastardized English, it's just a lack of knowledge on the subject. So try not to perceive it in the wrong way please and own up if you are uninformed.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Well actually, *"ignorant"* that clearly just think it's a bandwidth increase then, there is more than just raw bandwidth for GPUs to be concerned with, like feature sets, like CXL that is a complete game changer for the way devices or co-processors, yeah that is your GPU, in the PCIe pipeline are handled.

*"* I am calling ignorant because of a lack of knowledge while making judgements about a tech commenters apparently are not informed about which is the proper term and not to be meant in an inherently demeaning way like most people perceive it thanks to bastardized English, it's just a lack of knowledge on the subject. So try not to perceive it in the wrong way please and own up if you are uninformed.

I don’t quite understand your comment. I would say that it is “ignorant” to dismiss Pcie5 as unnecessary or only for servers etc, or that it is merely bandwidth increase. It’s just the latest standard and users should always opt for the latest standards.

 

[Rayneofpayne]

Meh, its a gimmick until faster NvME drives come out and pretty much not needed for graphics cards as of yet. They are after all "supposed" to be economy cpu's and you will never get all the PCIE lanes to begin with like performance motherboards....cough.

Please read about 5.0 before commenting about it, look up CXL and what it does and is capable of before making foolish claims. Not everything is about raw speed or bandwidth.
And no the m.2 ssds are more than fast enough, the problem lies in the software component not utilizing it. Outside of Windows itself only really productivity software manages to actually use that speed. Blame the software engineers.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Please read about 5.0 before commenting about it, look up CXL and what it does and is capable of before making foolish claims. Not everything is about raw speed or bandwidth.
And no the m.2 ssds are more than fast enough, the problem lies in the software component not utilizing it. Outside of Windows itself only really productivity software manages to actually use that speed. Blame the software engineers.

Why would someone choose Pcie4 over Pcie5?

 

[Rayneofpayne]

I haven’t made any foolish claims at all. People should always choose the better spec.

No that is incorrect, only buy for what you need, overspending is foolish. Don't buy tech you cannot theoretically use, it's a waste of money.

You kind of have, you state your case on speeds or bandwidth without understanding why PCIe 5.0 is a big deal.

 

[Shadowboxer]

No that is incorrect, only buy for what you need, overspending is foolish. Don't buy tech you cannot theoretically use, it's a waste of money.

You kind of have, you state your case on speeds or bandwidth without understanding why PCIe 5.0 is a big deal.

All I have said here is you should buy the more modern spec. I can assure you this is not a foolish claim.

Unless you have a reason outside of “buy only what you need” for choosing PCIe4 over PCIe5 then you are nothing but a worthless troll…

 

[Puiu]

People are arguing too much about something that we don't knw if it will be important. Let's see some benchmarks first.

It hasn't been that long since PCIe 4.0 came out so I doubt we'll see a bandwidth issue in the next 3-4 years (maybe for next gen SSDs).

 

[hahahanoobs]

It's not just for consumer parts people.
Intel will benefit IMMENSELY from this, because server and HPC are king, not games.

 

[hahahanoobs]

Fun fact: Alder Lake does not support PCIe for NVMe drives. It‘s x16 PCIe 5.0 lanes for the PCIe slot (GPU), x4 PCIe 4.0 lanes for NVMe and ‚up to’ x8 3.0 lanes for the chipset connection according to the information that‘s out there.

So with a current gen PCIe 4 GPU, you can use one PCIe 4 nVME, one less than on current X570 systems.

It may be possible to split the x16 lanes into 2x8 or even split off 8 for nVME. We‘ll see.




The difference is that everything was PCIe 4.0 with X570 - slots, nVME and the chipset connection. So it‘s full PCIe 4 vs partial PCIe 5,4 and afaik 3 mix.

There were also plenty that complained about the more expensive mainboards due to that.

I‘d say if you want to keep your system for a very long time, having the latest IO standard is a plus, but it depends how much that plus costs and when you actually start to see the benefits. For X570, there were at least a few devices on PCIe 4, well see when the first PCIe 5 cards (GPU ?) are released.

For me personally spending over €100+ more for an X570 vs B450 board was not worth it at the time.

Fun fact:
When AMD was touting PCIe 4 on X470, the chipset was PCIe 2.

Meanwhile on Intel's platform, four full speed PCIe 4 M.2 drives can run sultaneously on Z690.

AMD didn't capatilize while Intel was still on 14nm. I saw this coming.