Are We Reaching GPU Normalcy? The Answer Is (Almost) Yes

emmzo

Posts: 812   +1,251
In Europe, prices for midrange (3060ti, 3070, 6700) haven't moved since May. They haven't dropped a cent, even with ETHs merge. Price fixing is king, but keep 'em, mfkers! Buying old tech now is dumb anyway, unless there's a really really good deal.
 

Uncle Al

Posts: 9,363   +8,581
The laws of physic's still apply ... there is only so much they can do so not it all boils down to how much you get for any given price.
 

Revolution 11

Posts: 235   +329
In Europe, prices for midrange (3060ti, 3070, 6700) haven't moved since May. They haven't dropped a cent, even with ETHs merge. Price fixing is king, but keep 'em, mfkers! Buying old tech now is dumb anyway, unless there's a really really good deal.
I don't know why anyone is buying GPUs, Nvidia or AMD, right now when RDNA3 information is just around the corner. The best time to buy in 2022 will be Black Friday sales for old GPUs and December for next-gen GPUs.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,974   +6,430
I don't know why anyone is buying GPUs, Nvidia or AMD, right now when RDNA3 information is just around the corner. The best time to buy in 2022 will be Black Friday sales for old GPUs and December for next-gen GPUs.
While I agree that GPUs could go lower I think everyone should find what they feel is a reasonable price and buy then. I think the 6700xt could go below $300 but my price was $380 for what I thought was reasonable so when I saw a refurbished card on newegg with a warranty for $330 I jumped on it.
 

Revolution 11

Posts: 235   +329
While I agree that GPUs could go lower I think everyone should find what they feel is a reasonable price and buy then. I think the 6700xt could go below $300 but my price was $380 for what I thought was reasonable so when I saw a refurbished card on newegg with a warranty for $330 I jumped on it.
It is not the price that I am objecting to. We have major reveals for AMD GPUs coming on Nov 3, that is just two weeks away. Hold your horses so you can make an informed decision based on Nvidia AND AMD's next-generation GPUs. For the best price in 2022, wait for Black Friday for last-gen cards and for December for new-gen cards. But at the least, wait for November so you can make the decision to buy on all the information available this year.

What if you buy a Radeon 6XXX series card for a great price but then the 7XXX cards kick *** in RT and rasterization and you regret your purchase? Just wait for 2 weeks to avoid this, it is a single pay period, not a long time.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,974   +6,430
It is not the price that I am objecting to. We have major reveals for AMD GPUs coming on Nov 3, that is just two weeks away. Hold your horses so you can make an informed decision based on Nvidia AND AMD's next-generation GPUs. For the best price in 2022, wait for Black Friday for last-gen cards and for December for new-gen cards. But at the least, wait for November so you can make the decision to buy on all the information available this year.

What if you buy a Radeon 6XXX series card for a great price but then the 7XXX cards kick *** in RT and rasterization and you regret your purchase? Just wait for 2 weeks to avoid this, it is a single pay period, not a long time.
so I see the 6700xt as a special case because AMD made an epic BOAT LOAD of them, more so than any other card.

One reason I decide to jump on this price specifically is that both AMD and nVidia are reducing production on their next gen cards because of the overstock of last gen cards. They're doing this to keep prices high and I don't really see this as a horrible thing for them to do but it sucks for consumers. Fact of the matter is that they have a specific number to break even and another number of projected profits they need to make. With use going into a recession and all the old series cards on the market, which have great performance even in the midrange segment, there just isn't going to be the demand. They need to increase margins since they cannot increase volume of sales.

Now, I'm also not a PC elitist and the 6700xt can do 4k60 on all of the games I play. My 1070ti died in the middle of the chip shortage so I bought a 1050ti which has been disgusting to use. I have a hard time keeping a consistent 60 FPS at 1080 low settings. I needed a new graphics card ASAP, my price was $380 and in my case, I could not pass up $330 for a 6700xt.

My case is different than most people but it is my opinion that the price-performance of next gen cards is going to be fairly poor. With the huge supply of "new old" stock sticking around I think people will choose to go that route.

The 6700xt might go lower than $300 but I think the price floor for it is $320-$350. I also think the price floor for the 6800XT is about $500 but a more reasonable expectation is $550-580.

So while I hope the prices drop well below that it is important to manage our expectations and find what is a reasonable price for the individual. People can wait for a lower price if they want but manage your expectations. 6800XT's aren't going to drop to $400. the 6700XT's are not going to goto $200.

My advise to people is always pick a number of what you're willing to spend and buy then. Sometimes you are only going to save $20-30 by waiting and if you aren't checking daily then you may miss that deal. I've been watching the 6700XT's bounce between $380 and $430 for a few weeks now and when I see one for under $400 they're already sold out. So when I saw that 6700xt for $330 I didn't even hesitate, I put it in my cart and bought it within seconds and it was sold out when I checked the listing later that day.

We all hope for cheap graphics cards but have a personal price target and stick with it. You might find it for cheaper but it could also be sold out when you do.
 

waclark

Posts: 788   +488
I don't know why anyone is buying GPUs, Nvidia or AMD, right now when RDNA3 information is just around the corner. The best time to buy in 2022 will be Black Friday sales for old GPUs and December for next-gen GPUs.
I think most people are holding out to see what RDNA 3 brings, but then we will have to wait to see what the 4080 16G looks like and whatever the re-branded 4080 12G is able to do and that won't be until Dec if the release dates are accurate. So we're all in a waiting game and so far, pricing for last gen Nvidia hasn't made much of a move, except for the 3090 cards. Everything else is still above MSRP and I think people were expecting to see a drop there.

AMD cards are doing better on the price reductions, but we all have hopes that RDNA 3 will bring much better performance at more reasonable price points. You wouldn't want to buy a card for $600 when the new version will bring 30-50% more performance for say a $50 uplift in price.

So, we wait, but we don't like it.

 

Revolution 11

Posts: 235   +329
so I see the 6700xt as a special case because AMD made an epic BOAT LOAD of them, more so than any other card.

One reason I decide to jump on this price specifically is that both AMD and nVidia are reducing production on their next gen cards because of the overstock of last gen cards. They're doing this to keep prices high and I don't really see this as a horrible thing for them to do but it sucks for consumers. Fact of the matter is that they have a specific number to break even and another number of projected profits they need to make. With use going into a recession and all the old series cards on the market, which have great performance even in the midrange segment, there just isn't going to be the demand. They need to increase margins since they cannot increase volume of sales.

Now, I'm also not a PC elitist and the 6700xt can do 4k60 on all of the games I play. My 1070ti died in the middle of the chip shortage so I bought a 1050ti which has been disgusting to use. I have a hard time keeping a consistent 60 FPS at 1080 low settings. I needed a new graphics card ASAP, my price was $380 and in my case, I could not pass up $330 for a 6700xt.

My case is different than most people but it is my opinion that the price-performance of next gen cards is going to be fairly poor. With the huge supply of "new old" stock sticking around I think people will choose to go that route.

The 6700xt might go lower than $300 but I think the price floor for it is $320-$350. I also think the price floor for the 6800XT is about $500 but a more reasonable expectation is $550-580.

So while I hope the prices drop well below that it is important to manage our expectations and find what is a reasonable price for the individual. People can wait for a lower price if they want but manage your expectations. 6800XT's aren't going to drop to $400. the 6700XT's are not going to goto $200.

My advise to people is always pick a number of what you're willing to spend and buy then. Sometimes you are only going to save $20-30 by waiting and if you aren't checking daily then you may miss that deal. I've been watching the 6700XT's bounce between $380 and $430 for a few weeks now and when I see one for under $400 they're already sold out. So when I saw that 6700xt for $330 I didn't even hesitate, I put it in my cart and bought it within seconds and it was sold out when I checked the listing later that day.

We all hope for cheap graphics cards but have a personal price target and stick with it. You might find it for cheaper but it could also be sold out when you do.
Again, I was not referring to price but instead to look at RDNA3 offerings before buying. It could be that RDNA3 is so good that it is worth a $100-$200 premium to get much better features, performance, RT, etc, etc. As for price, I do believe that prices will continue to drop especially on Black Friday.

That $330 price is quite good, BTW, enjoy a great card.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,974   +6,430
Again, I was not referring to price but instead to look at RDNA3 offerings before buying. It could be that RDNA3 is so good that it is worth a $100-$200 premium to get much better features, performance, RT, etc, etc. As for price, I do believe that prices will continue to drop especially on Black Friday.

That $330 price is quite good, BTW, enjoy a great card.
I don't know if they'll be that good. AMD has been quiet about their new cards and, to me, that's not a good sign. You'd think they'd be sending out review samples as soon as nvidia released the 4090
 

Revolution 11

Posts: 235   +329
I don't know if they'll be that good. AMD has been quiet about their new cards and, to me, that's not a good sign. You'd think they'd be sending out review samples as soon as nvidia released the 4090
Maybe they are not going to be ready until December for the launch so it makes no sense to send out review samples on drivers that are not ready 6 weeks early. And Nvidia did not get great reception with the community on the 4090 price and the 4080 12 GB "unrelease" so why should AMD not give Nvidia more room? Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

If they reveal the cards and specs on Nov 3, the review samples would go out after that with a release after Black Friday in very late November, or early December so that any inventory of RDNA2 and older cards can be cleared out in the Black Friday sales.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,974   +6,430
Maybe they are not going to be ready until December for the launch so it makes no sense to send out review samples on drivers that are not ready 6 weeks early. And Nvidia did not get great reception with the community on the 4090 price and the 4080 12 GB "unrelease" so why should AMD not give Nvidia more room? Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

If they reveal the cards and specs on Nov 3, the review samples would go out after that with a release after Black Friday in very late November, or early December so that any inventory of RDNA2 and older cards can be cleared out in the Black Friday sales.
I really love the "unrelease" of the 4080 12g. It was a cut down die and should always have been a 4070. While I really disapprove of nvidia as a company I am happy the retracted on the 4080 branding with the 12gb model
 

PEnnn

Posts: 1,010   +1,361
"we had heard from multiple retailers and card makers ahead of launch that stock for this particular GPU was really strong in comparison to previous launches."

Ha!!

Well,obviously!! NGridia's best customers, aka, the scalpers and the miners, are not buying much of those this time!!
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,502   +3,248
Title should be changed to "Are We Reaching Nvidia GPU Normalcy? The Answer Is (Almost) Yes
GPU Pricing Update - October 2022"

Thumbnail? Nvidia.

First 6 photos? Nvidia.

First 300 words or so? About Nvidia.

Then, perhaps to do not look biased, one AMD GPU photo.

Oh and lets not forget that the photos used are for two of the most ridiculously priced GPUs ever, but hey, we all are filthy rich in this world and we all can afford them.

I don't know if they'll be that good. AMD has been quiet about their new cards and, to me, that's not a good sign. You'd think they'd be sending out review samples as soon as nvidia released the 4090

AMD rarely does that type of things (over hyping a product before launch).
Ryzen 7000 was pretty much quiet and if anything, lower numbers were leaked yet its made its launch, reviews proved that it was even better.

So I wouldnt read too much into it until unbiased reviews are published. The key word being unbiased, which they rarely get unfortunately.
 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,355   +4,362
I really like Tim, I always have. He's knowledgeable, honest, diplomatic, and a great host for Hardware Unboxed but I really think that he's being far too optimistic here. I say this because there's nothing even close to normal about a consumer-grade video card having an MSRP of US$1,600 like the RTX 4090 does. That's not normalcy, that's madness!

Normalcy disappeared with the RTX 2080 Ti having an MSRP of US$999 and seemed to return with the RTX 3080 having an MSRP of US$699 and the RX 6800 XT having an MSRP of US$649. AMD didn't even break the US$1,000 barrier with the halo-level RX 6900 XT at US$999 but nVidia did with their RTX 3090 at US1,499. Honestly, I don't think that nVidia expected the 3090 to sell well, if at all. The RTX 3090 was just a "We have the fastest card" marketing stunt so they priced it at what they considered to be a comically-high MSRP (especially since it was only like 10% faster than the 3080). This is why Jensen referred to the RTX 3080 as "our flagship card" instead of the 3090.

The problem was that the mining craze hit and it suddenly didn't matter what the prices were for any cards, because the miners were willing to pay. However, that didn't mean the market was normal, it was a very specific situation that was decidedly abnormal. In their typical delusional fashion, nVidia "fans" (read: paid shills and clueless noobs) like Linus Sebastian dishonestly tried equating the RTX 3090 to the RTX Titan. The clueless noobs did the same because Jensen (very shrewdly) said "Titan-like performance" when introducing the RTX 3090.

These days, there are very few truly investigative tech YouTubers. Steve Burke is one and he's good but the best that I've ever seen is Jim from AdoredTV. He's the best investigative tech journalist since Charlie Demerjian was a writer at The Inquirer, period. He had no problem calling out the BS that was causing so much damage to the market as a whole and I believe that he did as good a job at minimizing the market damage as he could, but he's only one man.

There were enough people who either didn't understand or had a vested interest in not doing so (which is all too common) pushing back at him with lies despite the fact that everything he said was true, was verifiable and made total sense. People were being misled and he was the only one with the guts and heart to openly say so:

In the here and now, nVidia is pretending to not recognise the very specific market conditions that have existed over the past two years. In fact, they've doubled-down and introduced their 90-level card first as if it were a mainstream product instead of the overpriced joke that the 3090 was intended to be.

I suppose that they were justified in their expectation that there are enough people with more money than brains who will buy it to make it worth their while, especially with nothing else from them on the market. I know that it's not selling nearly as well as the 3090 but they're likely raking in US$1,200 profit per card so to them, it's worth it.

What really bothers me though is how so many tech YouTubers have been unable to connect the dots (read: unwilling to publicly call out nVidia's marketing BS). I don't think that it's because they don't know because I don't think that they're that stupid, quite the contrary actually. It's because nVidia has shown itself to be a very vindictive entity.

I hope that most haven't forgotten how they blacklisted Hardware Unboxed and then "backpedalled". If you have forgotten this, then you're a part of the problem because it wasn't all that long ago. Sure, the "tech press" pushed back hard about it, nVidia made some crocodile-teared non-apology and backed off. Nevertheless, nVidia's message was clearly delivered. After all, if they'll treat a big-name reviewer like that, the smaller guys know that they're all fair game. Hell, they even treated EVGA, one of their marquee AIB partners so badly that EVGA left them (something I never thought would happen). They're toxic and for many reviewers, especially the little guys, being on nVidia's good side could mean the difference between success and starvation so they do what they're told.

The only card that has ever had an MSRP above US$1,000 within the last five years was the RTX Titan in 2018. Titans don't count because they're not consumer-grade cards but are between consumer and professional cards in the same way that Threadrippers are between Ryzen and EPYC. Sure, consumers can buy and use them but they're meant for workstations and so they command much higher prices. At the time, the highest MSRP ever for a consumer-grade video card was US$$999 for the RTX 2080 Ti and even that was considered insane so how could an MSRP of US$1,600 be considered even remotely normal?

The fact that a consumer-grade video card has an MSRP of US$1,600 means that we are nowhere close to normalcy and probably never will be again. Tim's trying to sugar-coat the situation but a turd coated with sugar still tastes primarily like turd.
 
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Nobina

Posts: 4,044   +4,709
The only thing being normalized is high GPU prices. The whole gaming PC build used to cost less than the latest RTX card.

Consumers are cattle and should be exploited cause that's their purpose in life.

A positive note: You don't need anything above 1080p to have a good time gaming. For it, you'll want something like an RX 6600 which is actually affordable and good at that resolution compared to anything else. We all complain about expensive **** but at least realise you absolutely don't need that gear like you used to before.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 421   +208
This last couple years has been very good for me when it comes to gpu's....

Sold my 2080ti for $1025 in Aug 2020

Bought $730 3080 on launch day

Traded 3080 FHR to miner for 3080 ti LHR (summer 2021)

Sold 3080 ti May 2022 for $1650 - Saw crypto bubble about to burst and knew it was time to get out + thought 40 series was coming in the summer.... When it didn't....

Bought 3070 Ti from a local guy who thought he killed it for $200 (aio leak)

Fixed and used til this week

Bought 4090 fe for $1525 (Best Buy credit card 10% coupon)

Sold 3070 Ti last night for $425

From 2080ti to 3080 to 3080 ti to 4090 (with a temp 3070 Ti in between) and spent zero money in fact made what.... Like $645 bucks?

I don't think anyone could argue that isn't good value for your money.

Even before the craziness of the past couple years I've been upgrading my stuff with every new bump in that level of cards performance since 2013 and on average my out of pocket costs were only ever about $200-250/yr.

Selling while something is still considered "hot" is the way to go vs. Letting your stuff age to the point no one even wants it and be stuck paying full price for your next upgrade. Meanwhile the whole time you've watched your once top level performance drop and drop and drop til your scraping the bottom of the barrel.

No thanks!
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 421   +208
The only thing being normalized is high GPU prices. The whole gaming PC build used to cost less than the latest RTX card.

Consumers are cattle and should be exploited cause that's their purpose in life.

A positive note: You don't need anything above 1080p to have a good time gaming. For it, you'll want something like an RX 6600 which is actually affordable and good at that resolution compared to anything else. We all complain about expensive **** but at least realise you absolutely don't need that gear like you used to before.
Well you're not wrong about that... They treat us as cattle for sure... The thing to is not be the sheep but the wolf.... Don't let the market play you.... Play the market. Other *****s want to waste good money on overpriced stuff let them... Take advantage of their impatience.... Don't get mad... Get paid.

See my post above for what I mean.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 421   +208
I really like Tim, I always have. He's knowledgeable, honest, diplomatic, and a great host for Hardware Unboxed but I really think that he's being far too optimistic here. I say this because there's nothing even close to normal about a consumer-grade video card having an MSRP of US$1,600 like the RTX 4090 does. That's not normalcy, that's madness!

Normalcy disappeared with the RTX 2080 Ti having an MSRP of US$999 and seemed to return with the RTX 3080 having an MSRP of US$699 and the RX 6800 XT having an MSRP of US$649. AMD didn't even break the US$1,000 barrier with the halo-level RX 6900 XT at US$999 but nVidia did with their RTX 3090 at US1,499. Honestly, I don't think that nVidia expected the 3090 to sell well, if at all. The RTX 3090 was just a "We have the fastest card" marketing stunt so they priced it at what they considered to be a comically-high MSRP (especially since it was only like 10% faster than the 3080). This is why Jensen referred to the RTX 3080 as "our flagship card" instead of the 3090.

The problem was that the mining craze hit and it suddenly didn't matter what the prices were for any cards, because the miners were willing to pay. However, that didn't mean the market was normal, it was a very specific situation that was decidedly abnormal. In their typical delusional fashion, nVidia "fans" (read: paid shills and clueless noobs) like Linus Sebastian dishonestly tried equating the RTX 3090 to the RTX Titan. The clueless noobs did the same because Jensen (very shrewdly) said "Titan-like performance" when introducing the RTX 3090.

These days, there are very few truly investigative tech YouTubers. Steve Burke is one and he's good but the best that I've ever seen is Jim from AdoredTV. He's the best investigative tech journalist since Charlie Demerjian was a writer at The Inquirer, period. He had no problem calling out the BS that was causing so much damage to the market as a whole and I believe that he did as good a job at minimizing the market damage as he could, but he's only one man.

There were enough people who either didn't understand or had a vested interest in not doing so (which is all too common) pushing back at him with lies despite the fact that everything he said was true, was verifiable and made total sense. People were being misled and he was the only one with the guts and heart to openly say so:

In the here and now, nVidia is pretending to not recognise the very specific market conditions that have existed over the past two years. In fact, they've doubled-down introduced their 90-level card first as if it were a mainstream product instead of the overpriced joke that the 3090 was intended to be.

I suppose that they were justified in their expectation that there are enough people with more money than brains who will buy it to make it worth their while, especially with nothing else from them on the market. I know that it's not selling nearly as well as the 3090 but they're likely raking in US$1,200 profit per card so to them, it's worth it.

What really bothers me though is how so many tech YouTubers have been unable to connect the dots (read: unwilling to publicly call out nVidia's marketing BS). I don't think that it's because they don't know because I don't think that they're that stupid, quite the contrary actually. It's because nVidia has shown itself to be a very vindictive entity.

I'm hope that we haven't forgotten how they blacklisted Hardware Unboxed and then "backpedalled". If you have forgotten this, then you're a part of the problem because it wasn't all that long ago. Sure, the "tech press" pushed back hard about it, nVidia made some crocodile-teared non-apology and backed off. Nevertheless, nVidia's message was clearly delivered. After all, if they'll treat an important AIB partner like EVGA badly, do you really believe that they'll think twice about screwing with a reviewer?

The only card that has ever had an MSRP above US$1,000 within the last five years was the RTX Titan in 2018. Titans don't count because they're not consumer-grade cards but are between consumer and professional cards in the same way that Threadrippers are between Ryzen and EPYC. Sure, consumers can buy and use them but they're meant for workstations and so they command much higher prices. At the time, the highest MSRP ever for a consumer-grade video card was US$$999 for the RTX 2080 Ti and even that was considered insane. So how could an MSRP of US$1,600 be considered even remotely normal?

The fact that a consumer-grade video card has an MSRP of US$1,600 means that we are nowhere close to normalcy and probably never will be again. Tim's trying to sugar-coat the situation but a turd coated with sugar still tastes primarily like turd.
90 series didn't exist then and is effectively what a titan is today.... Naming may be different but it's all the same... By your 80 class card like you always have amd focus on that card and it's pricing not a higher sku that doesn't even apply to the before times.

Yes it's still higher but nearly as much.