Argument over Diablo II game led to man fatally shooting his friend of 26 years

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amghwk

Posts: 1,177   +1,098
USA - back to the WWW age - Wild,Wild,West - everyone walking around with guns. Almost everyone. Anyone can shoot anyone if they get angry. It's no more about self-protection.

And Diablo II doesn't have guns. For those that need some brain-polishing.

Games don't make you violent. (Some do get absorbed in them(violent games), though.) A knife in your kitchen won't make you want to be a murderer.

Saying that, games nowadays use profanity for almost every sentence they speak it seems, pr0n/soft-core games mushrooming and games that glorify vices are becoming the norm.
 

waclark

Posts: 319   +210
Music speaks to me on many levels. But it usually only enrages me when there's only one good track on an album, and the other eleven are pure garbage.. :mad:
Hence why iTunes does so well. You only have to buy that one track. Makes buying vinyl a bit tricky but that's only for old farts who can't read the liner notes on the CD packaging.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,206   +2,612
TechSpot Elite
Spellman warned Dickson that he needed to calm down or else he would get shot. Spellman then took the gun from next to his computer and walked to Dickson’s house. When asked by detectives why he kept a pistol next to his PC, Spellman said, “why not? This is America.” <- OMFG!!!

Let me guess... Some people are going to blame Diablo II for this and not the fact that the guy had a gun to use. I'm just going to shake my head sadly if I see it because irony isn't funny in this case.
 

waclark

Posts: 319   +210
Spellman warned Dickson that he needed to calm down or else he would get shot. Spellman then took the gun from next to his computer and walked to Dickson’s house. When asked by detectives why he kept a pistol next to his PC, Spellman said, “why not? This is America.” <- OMFG!!!

Let me guess... Some people are going to blame Diablo II for this and not the fact that the guy had a gun to use. I'm just going to shake my head sadly if I see it because irony isn't funny in this case.
I wouldn't blame the game, however, I also wouldn't blame this on simply having a firearm. It's not like people say, hmm, I have a gun, I think I'll shoot someone today.

This incident is due to some ***** losing his mind and using deadly force in what otherwise is a heated argument. He could just have easily used a knife or baseball bat.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,206   +2,612
TechSpot Elite
But video games don't create vilolent behavior in real life situations. "Many studies have been done to prove this is the case". (Most likely by the gaming industry itself). :rolleyes:
Wait... You don't notice that ALL of these instances occurred in the USA? People in other developed nations play video games too and even if they are insane weirdos, not having access to guns means nobody gets shot. I'll take video games over guns any day if given the choice. This isn't because of video games, it's because of the American proliferation of firearms:
Spellman warned Dickson that he needed to calm down or else he would get shot. Spellman then took the gun from next to his computer and walked to Dickson’s house. When asked by detectives why he kept a pistol next to his PC, Spellman said, “why not? This is America.”
I mean, come on, this passage says it all, doesn't it?
I just find it all quite fascinating as an argument. It's all fake, its all just entertainment, unfortunately some people just have mental problems and think it's ok to replicate whatever they see.

But we'd rather blame the media that billions of people have also used and claim that's the cause rather than simply, the individual in question is mental.
Yeah but as I pointed out to the Cranky ol' Captain (the self-professed sociopath :laughing: ), these games are played all over the world but only result in murder in the USA. The most significant difference is the relative availability of firearms.

Here in Canada, very few of us own guns and of those that do, most just own a simple .22-calibre rimfire rifle for plinking. The number of us who own pistols is a tiny fraction of the gun owners who themselves are a tiny fraction of the population. No matter which direction someone argues, the numbers speak for themselves and you can't argue with numbers.

Gamers in all Western countries play the same games, watch the same movies, etc. However, only Americans seem to get shot over them. Since you find deranged lunatics in every country, the mental illness argument doesn't hold water either. Something tells me that it's not the games or the media that are the big problem in this case.
 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,206   +2,612
TechSpot Elite
Video games may just be the thing that puts people over the edge, but the root causes are much more complex than that, and it would be a very long a philosophical discussion.
Nah, I think that there's more to this story than just a game of Diablo II. If a video game is enough to set someone off, then it just means that if it wasn't the video game, it would've been something else. The problem is that these people have the tools to do extreme damage, namely, firearms.
Would it be as long as the "philosophical discussions" entertained between the, "I love Elon Musk", and the, "I hate Elon Musk" sects that exist here? ;)
That depends on how people feel individually. I personally don't like Elon Musk but I don't care if someone else likes him. He's not Stalin-level bad.
Hope this neckbeard garbage goes away for a long time.
This is less neckbeard garbage and more redneck garbage. :laughing:
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
Hence why iTunes does so well. You only have to buy that one track. Makes buying vinyl a bit tricky but that's only for old farts who can't read the liner notes on the CD packaging.
-Well junior, I prefer to think of myself as, "73 years young", as opposed to being labeled, "an old fart". That being said, I don't quite fit into the stereotype that you believe constitutes, "old fart-hood". How about if we put our heads together and separate the misconceptions you have about being old, and me in particular, as opposed to the average member of the, "old fart herd"?

First of all, we'll put the content of my post you're quoting into its correct context. The "I only become enraged about albums with only one good track", comment, was in response to a post which suggested that some people, "hear messages in the music that instruct them to kill". Obviously, for that to happen the individual pretty much has to be a schizophrenic, to imagine such a thing as being fact" So by abstraction, I indicated that that I wasn't of the schizo persuasion..

Now let's tackle the current obsession with vinyl. IMO, it's a massive scam, that is is aimed at "old farts", designed to rekindle memories of their youth, and floated on the illusion that, "vinyl records sound better than CDs", period. A money grubbing scam by record companies, to reap additional royalties, on the same content the user has already purchased.

As for me, "not being able to read the liner notes", that's why bifocals were created. Granted, I do suffer from presbyopia, but that's been true since my forties, which is when most people fall victim to it..

So, I have a meager AAS in photography. I also have 6 DSLRs at my disposal, and a half dozen monitors available, up to and including 31". If I feel the need to see cover art at full size, or, "as the artist intended". I'll simply snap a photo of the CD OR vinyl album cover, enhance it in Photoshop, then put it up as a desktop background. It will look better in the color space and transmitted light from a modern monitor anyway. Lithographic printing to paper, even paper designed for photo printing, doesn't have anywhere near the color space or reflectance (albedo), value that a monitor's transmitted light provides.

"One good track on an album", was prevalent during the "Beatles Invasion", when record companies were hungry to cash in on The Beatles success by promoting average bands on the same ethnicity. The "one good track" paradigm, certainly didn't attach to "The Rolling Stones", or The Beatles themselves. But in those days, when we rode the big yellow dinosaur to school, before the motor bus was invented, iTunes or Amazon ?Music didn't exist. So yeah, you were liable to get a "one hit wonder" from time to time.

I still buy CDs, as opposed to Mp3s. Since I believe you have to be somewhat deaf not to be able to tell the difference between Mp3, and PCM stereo. Then, when you've been around as long as I have, you'll be able to buy any given artist's, "greatest hits collection", which relegates much of the album filler, to the studio's archives.

To get back to topic, modern "gansta rap", does in fact, direct people to commit violent acts. The "song" about "shooting cops" was particularly controversial. The music of my era, just convinced we "hippie types", to go out and hump like bunnies.

I hope this lengthy, some would say, "long winded TL;DR" post, will convince you to at least have some understanding of "old farts". (I understand asking you to, "respect your elders", places too much of a burden upon you youthful shoulders).

Good chat, dontcha think? . :p :rolleyes: 🤣

EPILOGUE: I still think video games, especially FPS type games, are capable of causing violent behavior, but only in individuals prone to mayhem in the first place.

I also believe other forms of media can produce the same result, in the same behavioral profile contexts.

Do I give a sh!t? Absolutely not.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
"Video games make you violent" is as legitimate a position as "vaccines cause autism."
This, (IMO), is a faulty analog either from a point of, or trying to induce, cognitive dissonance.

You're telling gamers what they want to hear, in the way they want to hear it. That there's absolutely no connection between videos game, and incidents of violence.

Here's some thing to ponder; a 100 woman gets into a Ford F-150, at that moment she's more powerful than a 200 pound man driving a Ford Pinto. Experts have theorized that the power and equalizing forces of being encased in a massive vehicle, can't alter a person's outlook and personality. This is evidenced plainly in incidences of "road rage". Which to those of us sitting on the couch watching the news, seem completely implausible. After all, if the same two people accidentally bumped into another person while walking down the street, or in the supermarket, they'd say, "excuse me", and that would be the end of it. So, to say that a machine can't alter, (if only temporarily), a person's behavior, is pure and patent bullsh!t. People have killed one another over parking spots.

Now to the gun. In the same way that a vehicle could be ostensibly be referred to as, "an equalizer", guns have long been referred to in colloquial terms, as, "equalizers".

So, video games, under certain circumstances could serve as a trigger for violent behavior. In fact under situations published here, that has been the case..

OK, how many people suffer road rage and kill one another on the way to, or home from, work? Not very many. But the possibility does exist. How many people kill one another over a video game" Same answer, "not very many.", but the possibility does exist..

And that assessment isn't analogous to, or indicative of, some bizarre belief system that I just pulled out of my behind..
 

waclark

Posts: 319   +210
-Well junior, SNIP
I am your junior, by less than a decade
Now let's tackle the current obsession with vinyl. IMO, it's a massive scam, that is is aimed at "old farts", designed to rekindle memories of their youth, and floated on the illusion that, "vinyl records sound better than CDs", period. A money grubbing scam by record companies, to reap additional royalties, on the same content the user has already purchased.
Well, this statement comes with a lot of caveats. A lot of early rock music was recorded on equipment that was not of the same quality as the electronics we have today. But, a quality vinyl recording can sound better than a typical CD sampled at 44.1 kHz. Can most people hear that? I don't think so, and I'm sure I can. Still I do like perusing the album covers. CD packaging often times left much of the original packaging out because of space limitations.
As for me, "not being able to read the liner notes", that's why bifocals were created. Granted, I do suffer from presbyopia, but that's been true since my forties, which is when most people fall victim to it..
Well, that can help somewhat, assuming the original line notes and materials are included, which wasn't always the case.
SNIP

"One good track on an album", was prevalent during the "Beatles Invasion", when record companies were hungry to cash in on The Beatles success by promoting average bands on the same ethnicity. The "one good track" paradigm, certainly didn't attach to "The Rolling Stones", or The Beatles themselves. But in those days, when we rode the big yellow dinosaur to school, before the motor bus was invented, iTunes or Amazon ?Music didn't exist. So yeah, you were liable to get a "one hit wonder" from time to time.
Well, in a certain sense you're right about one-hit wonders, but that seemed to change with groups like the Beatles, Stones, Who and other groups of the 60s and 70s. I remember you would get an album and 9 of 10 sounds were good and 1 was average or not that good. Now it's the other way around.
I still buy CDs, as opposed to Mp3s. Since I believe you have to be somewhat deaf not to be able to tell the difference between Mp3, and PCM stereo. Then, when you've been around as long as I have, you'll be able to buy any given artist's, "greatest hits collection", which relegates much of the album filler, to the studio's archives.
My problem is that for some artists the album filler is pretty good and I hate how CDs arbitrarily "cut" the songs. Totally ruins albums like the second side of Abbey Road which is like one continuous song.
To get back to topic, modern "gansta rap", does in fact, direct people to commit violent acts. The "song" about "shooting cops" was particularly controversial. The music of my era, just convinced we "hippie types", to go out and hump like bunnies.
Yes, songs today, in some cases, have a very different tone than 50s, 60s and 70s rock. Sure, we had our protest songs (Neil Young, Ohio for example or War by Edwin Starr) but I don't recall any song calling for the killing of other people.
I hope this lengthy, some would say, "long winded TL;DR" post, will convince you to at least have some understanding of "old farts". (I understand asking you to, "respect your elders", places too much of a burden upon you youthful shoulders).
I understand old farts all too well. And I respect those that have come before.
Good chat, dontcha think? . :p :rolleyes: 🤣

EPILOGUE: I still think video games, especially FPS type games, are capable of causing violent behavior, but only in individuals prone to mayhem in the first place.

I also believe other forms of media can produce the same result, in the same behavioral profile contexts.

Do I give a sh!t? Absolutely not.
I think violent behavior of this sort is complex and there are probably several external stimuli that cause people to go off the rails. I play video games, FPS, and RPG and I have no desire to shoot anyone in RL, though there may be some that deserve it. I agree that it's not just video games.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
But, a quality vinyl recording can sound better than a typical CD sampled at 44.1 kHz. Can most people hear that? I don't think so, and I'm sure I can.
I'm fairly certain you can't hear the 44 Khz sampling, especially at our relative ages. I'm certain that if you were tested in a double blind, you cold pick out the CD versus the record every time. But not for that reason. And let's agree that, "sounds better", is subjective..

I've been to see the Who on several occasions. And in that context you could tell the recording from the live performance immediately. (**) The dynamic range went away, as well as a lot of detail in the high end.CDs to their advantage, can come closer to reproducing the dynamic range of live music as well as obtain a greatly superior S/N ratio. As to whether sound recording engineers are willing to take advantage of this, or piss it away, is another matter altogether.

(**) This is also true of other performer's concerts I've attended. And no, I sincerely don't believe they were holding back the recorded tracks, to make the artist live sound better
Well, in a certain sense you're right about one-hit wonders, but that seemed to change with groups like the Beatles, Stones, Who and other groups of the 60s and 70s. I remember you would get an album and 9 of 10 sounds were good and 1 was average or not that good. Now it's the other way around.
Yes, but those bands were the exceptions, not the rule. You can certainly listen yo, "Tommy", or "Quadrophenia", from start to finish. (For that matter even "Sellout"). But for every one of those bands, there were ten "one hit wonders", that studio execs regarded as, "product". Millions of people would place "Led Zeppelin" in the "all the way through" category. As for myself, I don't want to listen to Jimmy Page's sh!t, until he picks up a 12 string.
My problem is that for some artists the album filler is pretty good and I hate how CDs arbitrarily "cut" the songs. Totally ruins albums like the second side of Abbey Road which is like one continuous song.
Well, IMO, some artists don't even have "album filler". There are several bands with concept albums that I just push "play", and the band works its magic. :Kamelot" stands out to me in this regard. "Horslips", is another on two of its albums anyway. The album that the band claimed almost got them fired, "Short Stories and Tall Tales", is my favorite. Yeah, I color outside the lines. :confused:

As for a CD's targeting breaks, if they annoy you that much, rip it to lossless, put it into "Audacity", then prepare to settle in for a few hours, and eliminate them.
I think violent behavior of this sort is complex and there are probably several external stimuli that cause people to go off the rails. I play video games, FPS, and RPG and I have no desire to shoot anyone in RL, though there may be some that deserve it. I agree that it's not just video games.
Well, I just lost my job, my wife is leaving me, my dog just bit me, so I'm going to escape by playing this FPS, and this a**hole just pissed me off to the breaking point, Lemme see now, where's my gun..... So, yeah, a video game could be the trigger under a severely serious confluence of circumstances.
 
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CybaGirl

Posts: 90   +36
Well, I have to say that some of these comments are very sad and cruel. Some of you people really need help, and you are part of the problem(s) in society these days and not part of the solution!

We are talking about someone's son here. WTF is wrong with you? Your parents must be so very proud of what they created?

Would you feel the same way about your own child?

Such a tragic waste of life really and so very sad.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,469   +2,653
Well, I have to say that some of these comments are very sad and cruel. Some of you people really need help, and you are part of the problem(s) in society these days and not part of the solution!

We are talking about someone's son here. WTF is wrong with you? Your parents must be so very proud of what they created?

Would you feel the same way about your own child?

Such a tragic waste of life really and so very sad.
Ok cool, you going to explain? Do you have a solution or an idea you'd like to share?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
Well, I have to say that some of these comments are very sad and cruel. Some of you people really need help, and you are part of the problem(s) in society these days and not part of the solution!
Well perhaps deservedly so. If you follow the story from beginning, it's step by step, copy cat murder, based on the same sequence of steps that Kyle Rittenhouse took, in his killing of two at that protest

The guy took his gun, walked down the street, went into the guy's house,, then claimed "he lunged at me", and shot him, dead. The whole "he lunged at me" is,(**) (IMO) pure bullsh!t, fabricating a claim of self defense in advance. If he's found guilty of anything, (which is not a certainty), he should be convicted of 1st degree murder. Why? Because this was premeditated..

As for you guilt trip nonsense, save it for someone it will work on, or cares

(**) In other words, he was trespassing in the victim's own living room. And exactly how many people do you know who would rush a gun? Would you? Yet that's the guy's claim, "self defense".
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
Ok cool, you going to explain? Do you have a solution or an idea you'd like to share?
Just take the guilt trip she's trying to lay on us and enjoy it. Sort of like you would a Christmas present.

The always ever ungrateful me says, "all I wanted for Christmas was my two front teeth". Instead, Santa put this load of horsesh!t in my stocking. :poop:
 

ilovetohateyou

Posts: 17   +2
I also believe that, "behaviour", is spelled, "behavior". So what? This is America. :p

This is the internet. The internet is not America. There are people in the world who speak English who are not American. Some of them even spell words differently.

Try not to embody your username too aptly.
 

3volv3d

Posts: 424   +220
“why not? This is America.”

Classic.

Are you someone who believes video games do create violent behaviour? In which case, what would you do about it? Bare in mind Movies, TV Shows, Books, Music and other forms of entertainment exist.

Are you someone who believes games and none of the forms of media want to make you violent, happy, sad, or any other kind of mood or thought provoking?

Human minds are empty, until the brain washing from its sources, fills it. Some people run with what they are fed, others look for proof of what they are heard before making a decision, some people react. Cause and affect, action reaction.

I get that we have emotions, jealousy is the weirdest one of all, yet the most common. Someone boffs ya gf/wife, ya gonna go have a fight, over a person, that you don't own, that clearly isn't your soul mate if you believe such stuff, and yet you will make some irrational decision because you used to get your johnson wet in that woman and now shes polishing someone elses.

Humans are stupid.


 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
This is the internet. The internet is not America. There are people in the world who speak English who are not American. Some of them even spell words differently.

Try not to embody your username too aptly.
OK, so my personal "belief system", that I consider "behaviour", to be spelled "behavior", will not be tolerated by you, is that correct? It's really an insignificant concession on your part to accept that.

So tell me, is your alias, "Ilovetohateyou", indicative of your value system as it pertains to forum exchanges of viewpoint and tolerance?

And since you mentioned my screen name as the basis of your disapproval; a casual observer might draw the conclusion that, "the pot is calling the Kettle black".
 
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Rayneofpayne

Posts: 502   +415
But video games don't create vilolent behavior in real life situations. "Many studies have been done to prove this is the case". (Most likely by the gaming industry itself). :rolleyes:
No that is actually true, there is a distinct difference between saying a person was violent as a result of a games influence versus people just being crappy people in life and already predisposed to it because of society.
Perhaps.. perhaps, instead of blaming music, books, games, movies and other media blame bad parenting and society for their failures.
Don't see mass murders blaming Leo Tolstoy for War and Peace.
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 502   +415
What would I do about it? Absolutely nothing. I'm a boring old sod who doesn't venture out much further than, "Spider Solitaire", "Scrabble", and the occasional game of chess. And I'm not about to shoot the machine if I lose to it.

Additionally, I do think that all of those media are capable of inducing violence in personalities susceptible to it. In my case, the mitigating factor is that I have some sociopath tendencies in my own personality. Most notably, an almost complete a complete lack of empathy. So, I simply don't care who, or how many, are killed by them, it just won't be me.

When I said that I thought that video games could cause violence, did that make you mad? How mad? 🤣

One point you should consider is, that movies contain violence. But that's far and away different from a FPS game, which gives you the opportunity to practice killing.

I also believe that, "behaviour", is spelled, "behavior". So what? This is America. :p
So basically you have zero exposure, and are still making an argument that really has no basis other than from your lack of exposure meaning "ignorance and assumptions".
Perhaps you should watch Gore versus Dee Snyder about Music. If you draw those conclusions it's all you, opinions or not you are making those opinions public, so in essence you are opening yourself to criticisms from others whether based on facts or your own fiction.
Honestly it's easier when people don't troll and try to be cute about something.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
Perhaps.. perhaps, instead of blaming music, books, games, movies and other media blame bad parenting and society for their failures.
This is one of my posts from the TicTok thread

Speak for yourself. Oh, you were. Never mind. People such as myself do get jaded after awhile. .For example, I cheer when our fair city sets a new murder record. Then I'm amazed when the "community" thinks that the answer to the problem is to dole out money to them "to fix the problem". Well, if the parents didn't pitch crack and smack out the front door and leave guns laying around the house while their budding sociopaths were growing up, we'd have far less of a problem.

Of course after mom gets to jawing on the news claiming her hoodlum son, " could have been president", it kind of dulls their credibility. You think I should have "empathy"? Bullsh!t, I'm just thankful I didn't get in the way of the gunfight.

"Empathy is the emotions illegitimate child" (C.Cranky

And this is a response to a post of mine from "ilovetohateyou"
OK, so my personal "belief system", that I consider "behaviour", to be spelled "behavior", will not be tolerated by you, is that correct? It's really an insignificant concession on your part to accept that.
""ilovetohateyou"" said

"This is the internet. The internet is not America. There are people in the world who speak English who are not American. Some of them even spell words differently.

Try not to embody your username too aptly".
.
Talk about getting trolled. Hey, I'm the victim here on this one.
No that is actually true, there is a distinct difference between saying a person was violent as a result of a games influence versus people just being crappy people in life and already predisposed to it because of society.
From this very thread.:
The guy took his gun, walked down the street, went into the guy's house,, then claimed "he lunged at me", and shot him, dead. The whole "he lunged at me" is,(**) (IMO) pure bullsh!t, fabricating a claim of self defense in advance. If he's found guilty of anything, (which is not a certainty), he should be convicted of 1st degree murder. Why? Because this was premeditated.
I've stated that this was a copy cat killing, as it followed the exact sequence of Kyle Rittenhouse's actions, the night he went to that protest.

As for my personal opinion, if you didn't catch on by now, I think all media is capable of creating violence in a mentally unstable individual, and that it occurs with an antagonizing confluence.of prior events in that individual's life. My only reservation is that video games afford the opportunity to, "practice killing", before undertaking something like say, a school shooting..

So, when I said I would do "absolutely do nothing about it", I thought that the majority shouldn't be deprived of something because one, or even several individuals actions..So basically I don't think video games cause violence to the great majority of gamers, but they certainly can serve as a trigger., (within a confluence of events, in certain individuals).

Anyway, I really enjoy being told what I'm supposed to think, or allowed to post, or be told "I'm trolling", by someone who is selectively quoting me instead of taking everything I've said into context.

How mad did my posts make you?

If you had me in front of you, would you beat me up?

Would you shoot me?

I mean after all, you're "Reign of payne". And with you throwing around the "T word", you must be pretty upset.

Or is, "I better shut up if I say something you don't like or misunderstand" the passive extent of it?


People love to key in on my screen name's connotations. Especially people who call themselves, "rayne of pain", or, "ilovetohateyou". Hey, we all have ego issues, I'll deal with mine, if y'all promise to deals with yours
 
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ilovetohateyou

Posts: 17   +2
OK, so my personal "belief system", that I consider "behaviour", to be spelled "behavior", will not be tolerated by you, is that correct? It's really an insignificant concession on your part to accept that.

So tell me, is your alias, "Ilovetohateyou", indicative of your value system as it pertains to forum exchanges of viewpoint and tolerance?

And since you mentioned my screen name as the basis of your disapproval; a casual observer might draw the conclusion that, "the pot is calling the Kettle black".
Your "belief system" is irrelevant regarding prescription of word spellings. As is a value system, and my tolerance. The word has two spellings because there is a spelling that is chiefly American and one that is chiefly British, as you imply in your initial statement. It has everything to do with you recognizing that the word has multiple spellings, that one variant is specific to a region, and that an English-speaking website such as this one is not limited to that region.

Because this is not America. This is a website.

And as for my username, yes, that may be valid criticism, except: on the issue of the spelling you are being obtuse, and you come off as cranky. If my response to you comes off as hatred, then I'd hate to see how you weather actual vitriol.
 

mailpup

Posts: 7,745   +828
TS Special Forces
I think that will be enough personal comments for this thread. Any further such comments will disappear into the ether.
 
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