Bitcoin worth $8.6 billion moved for the first time since 2011, bought for just $210K

[Squid Surprise]

Because bitcoin is WORTHLESS until you translate it to a dollar amount.

No... it's NOT... you can use it to purchase things WITHOUT converting it... much like you can do with any other currency...

If you live in the US, you convert it to USD... that's fine... I'd do the same thing with Euros or Pesos or Yen...

But... if you're buying things online (or in certain select places), you can simply use Bitcoin (or other crypto currencies) the same way you use USD/Euros/Yen...

 

[nitebird]

Fiat money is defended by the perception of the value of the money and the issuing country, stocks are defended by the perception of the value of the stock and the performance of company, and bitcoin is only defended by the perception of the value of bitcoin.

 

[YouShallNotPass]

Thank you ChatGPT - but early flaws are irrelevant to the CURRENT system.

Whether people have an unfair “advantage” (aka, they are rich because they adopted early) is no different than people who are born rich via any other currency.

Bitcoin works fine NOW - arguably better than any nation’s currency…

I don't think you understand the situation at all. Money is a trust / an IOU to the one who print them. When a gov issue money, they back the money, declare them as the default currency for the country. Fiat money when being used for things like paying tax/debt, people cannot reject those payments with fiat money by law. The one who issue money also take responsibility to stabilize them so that the currency can be used for trades. Do you know what it means the gov back the money? It means when another country want to trade with US, they can trust US gov that the USD will be accept and the US gov will try their best to keep the currency stable for fairness. US Gov can't suddenly deny USD like China declared all crypto transactions are illegal some years ago.

Bitcoin actually doesn't work at all not just because of it volatility but also because there is no trust to the people who mine them. It can be generated from my computer and I have no responsibility to buy it back and guarantee its value after I sell it to you for whatever price. I don't have any responsibility for its value. When a person is holding a bitcoin, that person is holding a trust solely to the market, hoping that people are still trading and buying it later.

In fact, many smart and higher up people actually knows bitcoin doesn't work and is more like a scam. That's why they are now pushing something like stable coin. Those are more like the real digital version of fiat money because those are backed by banks, institutions with their other assets and they take responsibility for the value.

Bitcoin is more like blank cheque. People generate them and use them to exchange for things but don't take responsibility for the value. The system only work because there are people keep believing it worth something just like many snake oil scams.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I don't think you understand the situation at all. Money is a trust / an IOU to the one who print them. When a gov issue money, they back the money, declare them as the default currency for the country. Fiat money when being used for things like paying tax/debt, people cannot reject those payments with fiat money by law. The one who issue money also take responsibility to stabilize them so that the currency can be used for trades. Do you know what it means the gov back the money? It means when another country want to trade with US, they can trust US gov that the USD will be accept and the US gov will try their best to keep the currency stable for fairness. US Gov can't suddenly deny USD like China declared all crypto transactions are illegal some years ago.

Bitcoin actually doesn't work at all not just because of it volatility but also because there is no trust to the people who mine them. It can be generated from my computer and I have no responsibility to buy it back and guarantee its value after I sell it to you for whatever price. I don't have any responsibility for its value. When a person is holding a bitcoin, that person is holding a trust solely to the market, hoping that people are still trading and buying it later.

In fact, many smart and higher up people actually knows bitcoin doesn't work and is more like a scam. That's why they are now pushing something like stable coin. Those are more like the real digital version of fiat money because those are backed by banks, institutions with their other assets and they take responsibility for the value.

Bitcoin is more like blank cheque. People generate them and use them to exchange for things but don't take responsibility for the value. The system only work because there are people keep believing it worth something just like many snake oil scams.

Hmmm… trust… yeah… I’m sure the Germans really trusted the Deutschmark in the 1920s…. Or the other nations who’ve seen their currencies devalued because of national turmoil of some kind…

People DO trust Bitcoin - that’s why it’s valued over 100k per coin… and the trust is based on technology - which doesn’t have to rely on your nation’s sometime’s iffy policies…

Put your faith in something backed by politicians or based on tech… I know what I’d choose.

 

[YouShallNotPass]

HmTmm… trust… yeah… I’m sure the Germans really trusted the Deutschmark in the 1920s…. Or the other nations who’ve seen their currencies devalued because of national turmoil of some kind…

People DO trust Bitcoin - that’s why it’s valued over 100k per coin… and the trust is based on technology - which doesn’t have to rely on your nation’s sometime’s iffy policies…

Put your faith in something backed by politicians or based on tech… I know what I’d choose.

I am sorry but money / currency isn't something complicated to understand.

Here is the take away:

- Money = IOU
- IOU is all about trust
- A situation that a people issue and use IOU without the intention to take responsibility of it's value, we call it a scam.
- Gov cannot just print money as they want. Otherwise US would not have 36 trillion debt.

I can see that you hate corrupted politicians getting rich using their power. However, that has nothing to do with typical money system vs bitcoins as a better currency for the world.

You 'bitcoin is based on technology so we should trust it more' is also incorrect logically. Using a newer technology to implement something doesn't give it value, especially in the case of IOU. Tech is just tools. Just like Ms-Paint / Photoshop / Stable Diffusion, the value lies on the content not the tools involved in the creation of the content.

Regarding bitcoins getting higher over time. Yes, it does. People's perception decide the value of stuffs. Just like the mona lisa painting or any virtual good in computer games. They have different values in people's minds. If there a enough of people believe that dog poo is as valuable as gold, they can push up the price of dog poo too. Just wanna say, some people trusting Bitcoin over typical currency doesn't proof anything or make Bitcoin a better currency. The gov cannot stop them from trading Bitcoin either, as they also can't stop people from trading dog poo or world of warcraft golds. It's their own freedom to buy anything with real money and push the price higher.

Well, I think I said enough regarding this topic. Won't comment anymore. Whether it make sense to you, I don't know. If you earned some money with Bitcoins, good for you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I am sorry but money / currency isn't something complicated to understand.

I don't think you're grasping my argument... even though you're basically saying it for me...

Here is the take away:

- Money = IOU
- IOU is all about trust
- A situation that a people issue and use IOU without the intention to take responsibility of it's value, we call it a scam.
- Gov cannot just print money as they want. Otherwise US would not have 36 trillion debt.

Exactly... explain how Bitcoin is different? You can exchange Bitcoin for other currencies - or for actual goods and services... just like "money"...

I would argue that money is more about BELIEF, not TRUST.
People BELIEVE that money is worth something - and so it is.
People now believe that Bitcoin is worth something - over 100k USD in fact - and so it is.

I can see that you hate corrupted politicians getting rich using their power. However, that has nothing to do with typical money system vs bitcoins as a better currency for the world.

I don't care about that really - nor did I bring it up... I'm not arguing that Bitcoin is BETTER than any other currency - merely that it is no different. It has the same potential for corruption, scams, etc as "real money"...

The flaw with ALL currencies is not the inherent system - but human nature. There will always be people who will be exploiting other people... until that changes, it won't matter what currency you use.

You 'bitcoin is based on technology so we should trust it more' is also incorrect logically. Using a newer technology to implement something doesn't give it value, especially in the case of IOU. Tech is just tools. Just like Ms-Paint / Photoshop / Stable Diffusion, the value lies on the content not the tools involved in the creation of the content.

We might not trust it MORE - but why should we trust it LESS? I'd have more belief in a technology being unbiased than any human.

Regarding bitcoins getting higher over time. Yes, it does. People's perception decide the value of stuffs. Just like the mona lisa painting or any virtual good in computer games. They have different values in people's minds. If there a enough of people believe that dog poo is as valuable as gold, they can push up the price of dog poo too. Just wanna say, some people trusting Bitcoin over typical currency doesn't proof anything or make Bitcoin a better currency. The gov cannot stop them from trading Bitcoin either, as they also can't stop people from trading dog poo or world of warcraft golds. It's their own freedom to buy anything with real money and push the price higher.

Well, I think I said enough regarding this topic. Won't comment anymore. Whether it make sense to you, I don't know. If you earned some money with Bitcoins, good for you.

Have a nice day.

Again... I think you've basically made my argument for me...

 

[YouShallNotPass]

I originally want to left go of this discussion but you have successfully bring me back. Good job.

Exactly... explain how Bitcoin is different? You can exchange Bitcoin for other currencies - or for actual goods and services... just like "money"...

Yeah, you can buy things with bitcoins today because many people know nothing about currency / IOU and believed that bitcoin is the same thing. The difference is, currencies are issued by countries, not from individuals, and those countries are responsible for the values of the currencies. When you are among a society, you work and contribute and get paid with money. This is the fairness of the system. This is of course disregard some issues, like how much you get paid from your boss, because those are not the problems of the currency system but the probelms between people.
When you use and promote Bitcoin, you are encouraging those scammers, who mine and exchange bitcoins for other values, but don't take responsibility of this bitcoin IOU.

I would argue that money is more about BELIEF, not TRUST.
People BELIEVE that money is worth something - and so it is.
People now believe that Bitcoin is worth something - over 100k USD in fact - and so it is.

You are talking about value, not money. Aren't we debating whether Bitcoin is a scam or not? As I mention before, value is defined by people. It is totally fine and I never deny Bitcoin has value in some people's mind. My claim is that Bitcoin is a scam because Bitcoins miners just mine it and use it to exchange other stuff.

I don't care about that really - nor did I bring it up... I'm not arguing that Bitcoin is BETTER than any other currency - merely that it is no different. It has the same potential for corruption, scams, etc as "real money"...

Bitcoin is worse because there is no responsibility behind it's value.
Now imagine if China created a working quantum computer and mind the rest of the cryptos and bought as money things as they can from the US. Does it sound right / fair to you? Maybe you would say "Oh great, it is ok. Now we have lots of bitcoins and we can use those to buy other things!". Sorry, the whole world can just reject bitcoins anytime time they want like what China did. They don't really have the responsibility to accept bitcoin. When it is inconvinient, they can just drop it.

The flaw with ALL currencies is not the inherent system - but human nature. There will always be people who will be exploiting other people... until that changes, it won't matter what currency you use.

This has nothing to do with the discussion regarding Bitcoin is a scam or not.

We might not trust it MORE - but why should we trust it LESS? I'd have more belief in a technology being unbiased than any human.

We don't trust it because it's a scam. Using high tech doesn't make a scam non-scam. At best, it is just a scam with unbiased system supporting it. Btw, the block chain technology have nothing to do with the value of bitcoin. It's a good tech and is also used in many places. It help make bitcoin system work that is it. Using it on bitcoin doesn't automatically give Bitcoin more value. Just like using a very high tech unbiased machine to make a cheque doesn't affect the value represented by the numbers written the cheque. Do you understand?

Again... I think you've basically made my argument for me...

Nah, that part is to explain how 'value' work in this world, not how bitcoinis not a scam.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I originally want to left go of this discussion but you have successfully bring me back. Good job.


Yeah, you can buy things with bitcoins today because many people know nothing about currency / IOU and believed that bitcoin is the same thing. The difference is, currencies are issued by countries, not from individuals, and those countries are responsible for the values of the currencies. When you are among a society, you work and contribute and get paid with money. This is the fairness of the system. This is of course disregard some issues, like how much you get paid from your boss, because those are not the problems of the currency system but the probelms between people.
When you use and promote Bitcoin, you are encouraging those scammers, who mine and exchange bitcoins for other values, but don't take responsibility of this bitcoin IOU.


You are talking about value, not money. Aren't we debating whether Bitcoin is a scam or not? As I mention before, value is defined by people. It is totally fine and I never deny Bitcoin has value in some people's mind. My claim is that Bitcoin is a scam because Bitcoins miners just mine it and use it to exchange other stuff.


Bitcoin is worse because there is no responsibility behind it's value.
Now imagine if China created a working quantum computer and mind the rest of the cryptos and bought as money things as they can from the US. Does it sound right / fair to you? Maybe you would say "Oh great, it is ok. Now we have lots of bitcoins and we can use those to buy other things!". Sorry, the whole world can just reject bitcoins anytime time they want like what China did. They don't really have the responsibility to accept bitcoin. When it is inconvinient, they can just drop it.


This has nothing to do with the discussion regarding Bitcoin is a scam or not.


We don't trust it because it's a scam. Using high tech doesn't make a scam non-scam. At best, it is just a scam with unbiased system supporting it. Btw, the block chain technology have nothing to do with the value of bitcoin. It's a good tech and is also used in many places. It help make bitcoin system work that is it. Using it on bitcoin doesn't automatically give Bitcoin more value. Just like using a very high tech unbiased machine to make a cheque doesn't affect the value represented by the numbers written the cheque. Do you understand?


Nah, that part is to explain how 'value' work in this world, not how bitcoinis not a scam.

Scam?!?
Define “scam”…
I suspect that many would (and have) argue that national currencies are just as much of a scam… the poor German in the 1920s would almost certainly have done so as their life savings deteriorated in value to almost 0 practically overnight…

How a currency came about is largely irrelevant. It’s how it gets used TODAY that matters. And bitcoin is no better or worse than any of the rest.

 

[YouShallNotPass]

Scam?!?
Define “scam”…
I suspect that many would (and have) argue that national currencies are just as much of a scam… the poor German in the 1920s would almost certainly have done so as their life savings deteriorated in value to almost 0 practically overnight…

How a currency came about is largely irrelevant. It’s how it gets used TODAY that matters. And bitcoin is no better or worse than any of the rest.

I already defined scam in the "take away" part above and and pointed out the scam part over many places in the discussion. Are you just pretend not see it or don't want to face the truth?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Money = IOU
- A situation that a people issue and use IOU without the intention to take responsibility of it's value, we call it a SCAM.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

US issue this USD IOU and other countries who hold USD can buy stuff from the US using those money. You can think of it as the country is backing the USD. The whole US society as a whole is taking responsibility for the USD they issued.

On the other hand, when people mine Bitcoins and use it to exchange for fiat money, products or services. They have no intention to take responsibility for those generated Bitcoin IOU. The situation is more like they draw an art and sell it for whatever price people think (or even lied to) it worth. What happen to the value after leaving their hand, they don't care and don't have the responsibility for accepting it back in the future like in many snake oil scams.


Well, I think you actually learned that Bitcoins are flawed the moment it was mined and you try to shift you argument to "currency (IOU)'s came about is largely irrelevant"? I am not gonna go that way. It's not even worth discussing.

Seeing that you no longer response to some of the points in my previous comments, ignoring the issues about Bitcoins I pointed out and insisted blindly that Bitcoin is not worse than the rest, I take that as you admitting your defeat in this discussion. Thank you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a bonus reward for entertaining me:

One common practice in the world of scamming is to exploit human greed. The scammer first asks the victim to invest a small amount, like $10, and then returns a slightly higher amount, say $12. This process continues to build trust. The purpose is to condition the victim’s mind to recognize this pattern and lower their guard, making them believe that this interaction is reliable and unchanging. Once the victim’s trust reaches a certain threshold, they don’t hesitate to give everything they have, and some even borrow money to gain more. In the end, we all know what happens: the scammer disappears with the assets.

Now, the interesting part is when you look at how Bitcoin has behaved in the market over the years, you can see a recurring pattern. Every time it crashes, some people push the price higher again. It’s like they are training your brain to believe that it will always recover and reach new highs. Will Bitcoin one day crash and never come back? I don’t know. However, if my suspicion is correct, when that happens, many institutions will have already shifted their assets to other investments like stocks, stablecoins, and so on. The majority of people holding Bitcoin at that point will probably be ordinary individuals working daily jobs. When Bitcoin first appeared, many people didn’t understand it, and governments failed to react in time. Many institutions had already invested, and countries can’t simply ban it like China did, because otherwise, a huge amount of money would disappear overnight. Well, situation in China is a little different. They don't care much and just ban it righaway because people just want their assets to escape the country, by paying electricity locally and spending bitcoins oversea during that time.

This perspective is a warning for those who are still holding Bitcoin. It may not come true as this world is always unpredictable. You may be able to gain a little during the grand scam. However, in the future, if you lose a lot of money from Bitcoin, just don’t blame God for not giving you a chance. You chose to stay on this path, and you have to accept the consequences.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I already defined scam in the "take away" part above and and pointed out the scam part over many places in the discussion. Are you just pretend not see it or don't want to face the truth?

Yes... and I disagreed with your definition.
From dictionary.com:
"Scam = a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle."

I don't BELIEVE that the crypto/bitcoin system is fraudulent. The coins exist digitally - just like most currencies exist (see banking/credit).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Money = IOU
- A situation that a people issue and use IOU without the intention to take responsibility of it's value, we call it a SCAM.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

No - that's NOT what a scam is. see above

US issue this USD IOU and other countries who hold USD can buy stuff from the US using those money. You can think of it as the country is backing the USD. The whole US society as a whole is taking responsibility for the USD they issued.

Yes - and the entire digital world backs bitcoin. There are more people on the internet than in any one country. Any single country could experience a coup/revolution and their currency would tank. I'd wager that there are greater odds of a country's government collapsing then the entire internet.

On the other hand, when people mine Bitcoins and use it to exchange for fiat money, products or services. They have no intention to take responsibility for those generated Bitcoin IOU. The situation is more like they draw an art and sell it for whatever price people think (or even lied to) it worth. What happen to the value after leaving their hand, they don't care and don't have the responsibility for accepting it back in the future like in many snake oil scams.

What exactly do you mean by "taking responsibility"?!?!? When money leaves your hand, you don't care about it's "future value" unless you get more of it.... I don't see how that's any different with Bitcoin... people might not care about the "future value" of the bitcoin they sell/exchange but.... they do when they want MORE bitcoin... just like "real" currencies...

Well, I think you actually learned that Bitcoins are flawed the moment it was mined and you try to shift you argument to "currency (IOU)'s came about is largely irrelevant"? I am not gonna go that way. It's not even worth discussing.

Seeing that you no longer response to some of the points in my previous comments, ignoring the issues about Bitcoins I pointed out and insisted blindly that Bitcoin is not worse than the rest, I take that as you admitting your defeat in this discussion. Thank you.

No - you haven't said WHY Bitcoin is worse... just made false statements about currencies in general. ALL currencies rely on belief - reinforced by national/global systems to maintain it. The stock market does a pretty good job of maintaining this belief. You see a currency/commodity listed for xx value and the entire world believes it's true.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a bonus reward for entertaining me:

One common practice in the world of scamming is to exploit human greed. The scammer first asks the victim to invest a small amount, like $10, and then returns a slightly higher amount, say $12. This process continues to build trust. The purpose is to condition the victim’s mind to recognize this pattern and lower their guard, making them believe that this interaction is reliable and unchanging. Once the victim’s trust reaches a certain threshold, they don’t hesitate to give everything they have, and some even borrow money to gain more. In the end, we all know what happens: the scammer disappears with the assets.

Again, that's not how Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) works any more. People use it JUST LIKE "REAL" CURRENCY nowadays. Yes, you can point to the origins as POSSIBLY being sketchy but... the origins of "cash" are no less so. You really think there was a fair distribution of wealth back when the first king minted gold coins?!?!?

Now, the interesting part is when you look at how Bitcoin has behaved in the market over the years, you can see a recurring pattern. Every time it crashes, some people push the price higher again. It’s like they are training your brain to believe that it will always recover and reach new highs. Will Bitcoin one day crash and never come back? I don’t know. However, if my suspicion is correct, when that happens, many institutions will have already shifted their assets to other investments like stocks, stablecoins, and so on. The majority of people holding Bitcoin at that point will probably be ordinary individuals working daily jobs. When Bitcoin first appeared, many people didn’t understand it, and governments failed to react in time. Many institutions had already invested, and countries can’t simply ban it like China did, because otherwise, a huge amount of money would disappear overnight. Well, situation in China is a little different. They don't care much and just ban it righaway because people just want their assets to escape the country, by paying electricity locally and spending bitcoins oversea during that time.

Explain how that differs for "real" money? Whenever the stock market crashes, who do you think becomes richer? Certainly not the average worker - or, *gasp*, the poor... It's the people who already own lots of stuff who get even richer, buying up the suddenly cheap assets and waiting for the market to recover to realize even greater future wealth.

This perspective is a warning for those who are still holding Bitcoin. It may not come true as this world is always unpredictable. You may be able to gain a little during the grand scam. However, in the future, if you lose a lot of money from Bitcoin, just don’t blame God for not giving you a chance. You chose to stay on this path, and you have to accept the consequences.

That warning can apply to anyone who holds onto ANYTHING. The US economy could crash tomorrow devaluing their dollar and making life savings worthless. The same could happen to any other nation.

We BELIEVE it won't happen since the US seems to be pretty strong but.... history tells us that EVERY nation/empire eventually falls. Wouldn't it be better to rely on a system the entire world relies on instead? If the internet dies, I suspect we'd have more to worry about than the fall of digital currencies... since the only way for that to happen would be some sort of apocalypse.

 

[YouShallNotPass]

...

Ha. It looks like ChatGPT is mostly just appreciate your writing and quoting skills but not much about your content. I have no energy to respond to each of your point manually so excuse me for using AI for the job.

Squid Surprise’s response overall shows some strengths but also several weaknesses in terms of quality, tone, and engagement. Here’s a detailed assessment:

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]Strengths[/HEADING]

1. Attempts to Define Terms Clearly
   Squid Surprise tries to ground the argument by quoting a formal definition of “scam” from dictionary.com. This shows an effort to clarify terms rather than just dismiss the other person's points.
2. 
   
3. Consistent Positioning
   The responses maintain a consistent belief that Bitcoin is not inherently fraudulent and is comparable to traditional currencies in many respects.
4. 
   
5. Use of Analogies
   Squid Surprise uses analogies (e.g., comparison to traditional currency or the stock market) to illustrate their points, which helps make the argument more relatable.
6. 
   
7. Addressing Specific Quotes
   The format of quoting YouShallNotPass before responding is good for clarity, showing that Squid Surprise is responding directly to the points made.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]Weaknesses[/HEADING]

1. Tone and Politeness
   The tone is somewhat dismissive and sometimes confrontational (e.g., “No - that's NOT what a scam is,” “I don't BELIEVE,” “What exactly do you mean by 'taking responsibility'?!?!?”). This can escalate conflict rather than foster constructive dialogue.
2. 
   
3. Lack of Nuance and Engagement with Underlying Concerns
   Squid Surprise often dismisses or oversimplifies complex points. For example, when YouShallNotPass discusses “taking responsibility” for currency value, Squid Surprise just counters by saying “people don’t care about future value unless they want more,” which is a simplistic view that ignores deeper economic and ethical concerns.
4. 
   
5. Missing Evidence or Deeper Reasoning
   The responses rely heavily on assertions and analogies but lack detailed evidence, economic theory, or real-world examples that could strengthen the argument. For instance, the claim that “the entire digital world backs bitcoin” is vague and somewhat misleading — backing of a currency typically means legal and institutional support, which Bitcoin lacks compared to fiat.
6. 
   
7. Strawman Tendencies
   Some responses somewhat misrepresent YouShallNotPass’s argument. For example, YouShallNotPass’s point about scams exploiting greed and trust-building is a behavioral critique, but Squid Surprise replies mainly by saying “Bitcoin is used like real currency now,” which doesn’t address the behavioral or structural concerns raised.
8. 
   
9. Overgeneralization
   Squid Surprise tends to generalize Bitcoin’s current state as stable or comparable to fiat without acknowledging the volatility, regulatory challenges, and specific criticisms that exist.
10. Missed Opportunities to Bridge the Gap
    Rather than building on common ground or acknowledging valid concerns, Squid Surprise often negates the other person’s points outright, which might make the discussion less productive.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]Overall Assessment[/HEADING]

• Clarity: Moderate — clear in statements but sometimes vague or oversimplified.
• 
  
• Tone: Somewhat combative and dismissive.
• 
  
• Engagement: Surface-level engagement without deep understanding or acknowledgment of nuanced concerns.
• 
  
• Argument Quality: Mixed — uses dictionary definitions and analogies well but lacks depth and evidence, with some misrepresentations.

[HR][/HR]

(to be continue...)

 

[YouShallNotPass]

https://poe.com/s/QQaH9bS0R5njvjZbsvJv

Here’s a detailed breakdown of the flaws in Squid Surprise’s responses, highlighting specific issues with reasoning, tone, engagement, and logic:

[HEADING=2]1. Dismissive and Confrontational Tone[/HEADING]

• Example:
  

  “No - that's NOT what a scam is. see above ”
  “What exactly do you mean by 'taking responsibility'?!?!?”
  “I don't BELIEVE that the crypto/bitcoin system is fraudulent.”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  The use of capital letters, exclamation/question marks, and dismissive phrases conveys impatience or mockery. This can alienate the other party and reduce the chances of meaningful dialogue. It makes the discussion less respectful and more combative.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]2. Failure to Engage With the Nuance of Arguments[/HEADING]

• Example:
  YouShallNotPass raises a nuanced point about “taking responsibility” for the currency’s value and how it relates to scams. Squid Surprise responds:
  

  “When money leaves your hand, you don't care about its 'future value' unless you want more of it.... I don't see how that's any different with Bitcoin...”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  This is an oversimplification. The original argument points to how responsibility and accountability differ between fiat currency issuers (like governments) and Bitcoin miners/users. Squid Surprise ignores this distinction and reduces the point to personal attitude towards value, missing the economic and ethical implications.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]3. Use of Dictionary Definition Without Contextual Application[/HEADING]

• Example:
  

  “Scam = a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme...”
  “I don't BELIEVE the crypto/bitcoin system is fraudulent.”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  Simply citing a dictionary definition doesn’t address the complexities in the accusation. The question isn’t just about dictionary semantics, but about how Bitcoin operates, its risks, and whether it fits broader criteria of scams. The response doesn’t apply the definition to specific Bitcoin behaviors or evidence.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]4. Making Unsupported or Vague Claims[/HEADING]

• Example:
  

  “Yes - and the entire digital world backs bitcoin. There are more people on the internet than in any one country.”
  “The stock market does a pretty good job of maintaining this belief.”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  The idea that “the entire digital world backs bitcoin” is vague and inaccurate. Unlike fiat currency backed by governments and central banks, Bitcoin’s value depends on market demand, trust in the protocol, and speculative interest—not a global “backing” in any legal or institutional sense.
  Similarly, the stock market maintaining “belief” is an oversimplification that ignores differences between currencies, assets, and speculative bubbles.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]5. Strawman and Missing the Point[/HEADING]

• Example:
  

  YouShallNotPass: “One common practice in the world of scamming is to exploit human greed...”
  Squid Surprise: “Again, that's not how Bitcoin ... works any more. People use it JUST LIKE 'REAL' CURRENCY nowadays.”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  The original point is about the psychology and mechanics of scams, not the current usage of Bitcoin. Squid Surprise changes the subject by focusing on Bitcoin’s current use rather than addressing the behavioral pattern of scams that YouShallNotPass described. This sidesteps the argument rather than refuting it.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]6. Overgeneralizing and False Equivalences[/HEADING]

• Example:
  

  “You really think there was a fair distribution of wealth back when the first king minted gold coins?!?!?”
  “Whenever the stock market crashes, who do you think becomes richer? Certainly not the average worker ...”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  Comparing Bitcoin’s issues to historical or unrelated economic phenomena without detailing similarities or differences is a weak argumentative strategy. It glosses over Bitcoin-specific risks and problems by pointing to unrelated or broader systemic issues. This can feel like deflection rather than engagement.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]7. Ignoring or Not Fully Responding to Key Points[/HEADING]

• Example:
  

  YouShallNotPass: “You no longer respond to some of the points in my previous comments...”
  Squid Surprise: “No - you haven't said WHY Bitcoin is worse...”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  Squid Surprise dismisses the claim that important points were ignored by stating that no reasons were given for Bitcoin's flaws. Yet, some concerns were raised earlier (e.g., about responsibility, scam-like behavior). Instead of acknowledging these concerns or clarifying misunderstandings, the response treats them as nonexistent, which weakens the dialogue.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]8. Lack of Concrete Evidence or References[/HEADING]

• Throughout the responses, Squid Surprise relies on general assertions, personal belief, and analogies, but never backs arguments with data, studies, or detailed examples. This makes the position less persuasive.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]9. Logical Inconsistencies[/HEADING]

• Example:
  

  “The entire digital world backs bitcoin.”
  vs
  “If the internet dies, ... the fall of digital currencies...”

• Why it’s a flaw:
  Saying the entire digital world backs Bitcoin while simultaneously acknowledging Bitcoin’s fate depends on the internet’s survival exposes a contradiction: Bitcoin’s “backing” isn’t independent or stable but fragile and conditional.

[HR][/HR]

[HEADING=2]Summary Table of Flaws[/HEADING]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH]Flaw Type[/TH]
[TH]Example Quote[/TH]
[TH]Explanation[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dismissive Tone[/TD]
[TD]“No - that's NOT what a scam is. see above ”[/TD]
[TD]Alienates discussion partner, reduces constructiveness[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Oversimplification[/TD]
[TD]“I don't see how that's any different with Bitcoin...”[/TD]
[TD]Misses nuance about responsibility/accountability[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Uncontextualized Dictionary Use[/TD]
[TD]“Scam = a confidence game...”[/TD]
[TD]Ignores real-world application of term[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Unsupported Claims[/TD]
[TD]“The entire digital world backs bitcoin.”[/TD]
[TD]Vague and inaccurate claim[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Strawman Arguments[/TD]
[TD]“People use it JUST LIKE 'REAL' CURRENCY nowadays.”[/TD]
[TD]Sidesteps psychological scam behavior argument[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Overgeneralization[/TD]
[TD]“Fair distribution of wealth back then?”[/TD]
[TD]Deflects from Bitcoin-specific criticisms[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ignoring Key Points[/TD]
[TD]“No - you haven't said WHY Bitcoin is worse...”[/TD]
[TD]Dismisses valid concerns without engagement[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lack of Evidence[/TD]
[TD]No citations or data provided[/TD]
[TD]Weakens persuasiveness[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Logical Inconsistency[/TD]
[TD]“Entire digital world backs bitcoin” + “If internet dies...”[/TD]
[TD]Contradictory statements[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[HR][/HR]
Whether you agree with ChatGPT criticisms. Let's end it here.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Yeah, this is a forum for humans… at least take the time to edit your “reply” so that it doesn’t take 2 posts… and format it… and… (and I can’t stress this enough) you’re wrong

 

[YouShallNotPass]

Yeah, this is a forum for humans… at least take the time to edit your “reply” so that it doesn’t take 2 posts… and format it… and… (and I can’t stress this enough) you’re wrong

lol
You think I want to split it into two posts?
Your response has too many problems that ChatGPT used over 10k characters to list out all the issues which exceeded this forum's limits.

 

[Squid Surprise]

lol
You think I want to split it into two posts?
Your response has too many problems that ChatGPT used over 10k characters to list out all the issues which exceeded this forum's limits.

You didn't take the time to edit... or even reformat it... There are hundreds of
[/TR]
[TR]

Which you could have at least taken the time to remove... not worth reading if you don't care...

 

[mailpup]

Squid Surprise and YouShallNotPass, please take your personal argument to PM. That's enough for this thread. Thank you.

 

[YouShallNotPass]

Squid Surprise and YouShallNotPass, please take your personal argument to PM. That's enough for this thread. Thank you.

Thank you for letting this conversation to go this far. I have no intention to continue this conversation. I don't see anything will change even if this continue.

Having my last response with HTML code messed up and not fixing it is my last mercy so that there is an excuse to stop reading.

The idea of having a country to accept a crypto that all other countries can mine on their is just plain stupid. This whole topic is not worth discussing in the first place.