And here I thought all those years that black and white connotations with evil and good were actually stemming from catholic religion (snow white angel, pitchblack devil), long before majority in Europe has heard about some Black people living on a continent below Mediteranean. I was dumb that whole time...
'Blacklist' and 'whitelist' terms banned by UK cyber security agency for being racist
- Thread starter midian182
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brucek
Posts: 1,725 +2,694
I guess I disagree from the very get go: whitelist does mean allow, and blacklist does mean deny, but neither means good/bad so I disagree with your premise from then on.
In computer security the lists are commonly used to manage network firewalls, and the same server on one tier's whitelist is often on the next's blacklist. The server is neither good nor bad (nor is it a person.) The lists are also exceptions to more general defaults, so before something would need to appear on a white list it would have first been rejected by another rule (and vice versa.)
As to the origin of allow/deny for those terms, I'd intuit much more naturally to the behavior of colors (white=show all colors, black=show none) or the primal association of them (white=light=safe to move, black=dark=not safe to move) before I'd jump to race which seems pretty far fetched given the context. Even with those being the intuitive sources, I've seen enough word origins to know the actual root is often some specific quirk of history having nothing to do with anything.
Finally, while you may be focused on just those two words, the discussion overall did seem broader than that hence the rebuttal examples of white consistently meaning good and black consistently meaning bad.
In computer security the lists are commonly used to manage network firewalls, and the same server on one tier's whitelist is often on the next's blacklist. The server is neither good nor bad (nor is it a person.) The lists are also exceptions to more general defaults, so before something would need to appear on a white list it would have first been rejected by another rule (and vice versa.)
As to the origin of allow/deny for those terms, I'd intuit much more naturally to the behavior of colors (white=show all colors, black=show none) or the primal association of them (white=light=safe to move, black=dark=not safe to move) before I'd jump to race which seems pretty far fetched given the context. Even with those being the intuitive sources, I've seen enough word origins to know the actual root is often some specific quirk of history having nothing to do with anything.
Finally, while you may be focused on just those two words, the discussion overall did seem broader than that hence the rebuttal examples of white consistently meaning good and black consistently meaning bad.
ChickyBoom
Posts: 29 +25
Is that business in the red? Uhoh, racist too. Is that happy person in the pink? Uhoh, sexist.
Yes, it can get worse, there's will always be something.
ChickyBoom
Posts: 29 +25
' Ian Levy, says: “If you’re thinking about getting in touch saying this is political correctness gone mad, don’t bother.” '
In that case, we'll just post here that you're an f-in *****. lol
In that case, we'll just post here that you're an f-in *****. lol
Thanthan
Posts: 219 +475
I honestly think that making black/whitelisting about race is more of a sign of our times than of the actual words origin. It's very binary making everything that has to do with colours about race. It might as well be about the light and the dark, phenomena that EVERY culture have seen to represent the goodness of the sun contrasting the evils of the night. It seems... Shallow, to make it about race. But then again, that might just be me thinking that the chosen replacements are singularly uncatchy. I mean "allow list". They could have spent more time on that one.
Also please. Just stahp. if it ethymologically has racist implications, please fix. If not then let it be, and educate people about the actual origins of words and set phrases. I don't want to see the n word anywhere in my life except Notorious B.I.G. albums but I also don't want the poetry of light and dark to dissappear from our languages because some people have higher concentrations of melanin pigment than others.
Also, I checked the ethymology of blacklisting. the word stems from so-called "black books" wherein employers would denote troublesome employees, typically for union activity. Clearly, that is classist, not racist.
Also please. Just stahp. if it ethymologically has racist implications, please fix. If not then let it be, and educate people about the actual origins of words and set phrases. I don't want to see the n word anywhere in my life except Notorious B.I.G. albums but I also don't want the poetry of light and dark to dissappear from our languages because some people have higher concentrations of melanin pigment than others.
Also, I checked the ethymology of blacklisting. the word stems from so-called "black books" wherein employers would denote troublesome employees, typically for union activity. Clearly, that is classist, not racist.
Morris Minor
Posts: 249 +171
yeah, the only people that think about race all the time are racists
PEnnn
Posts: 1,285 +1,853
What's the point of this article??? Aside from triggering the usual suspects and their usual whining about their "victimhood" and "poor me" delusions??
Another poor soul here commented that's the reason "people vote for Trump"!
Now, that's rich, considering Trump has taken bullying, cyber or otherwise, to an amazing extreme level and made his truly racist base really proud. A true mirror of themselves.
So spare me that pathetic fake outrage about the "non-existing" racism!
- Do you have white (or bright) walls in your house / apartment? Then you're racist. Paint them black, right now!
- People like daylight, because if there's light, one can see. People are afraid of the night, because they can't see at night. Maybe that's the context of white and black, ha? But nobody thought of that natural distinction. Or maybe the nature is racist too??
- Many animals don't see at night, so they are afraid of the dark. Could be those animals are racists too, ha? But hey, bats aren't. They feel great at night. So they aren't racists. Oh, wait, they are. They prefer black. Hence, they are black racists.
- What's next? Banning chess? Because let's face it, white has advantage in chess. It makes the first move.
- But why are black credit cards considered the most privileged?? They are also racist then.
- Presidents usually have black limos. Racists. They should have zebra-like limos, with equal surface area covered by white and black.
- People like daylight, because if there's light, one can see. People are afraid of the night, because they can't see at night. Maybe that's the context of white and black, ha? But nobody thought of that natural distinction. Or maybe the nature is racist too??
- Many animals don't see at night, so they are afraid of the dark. Could be those animals are racists too, ha? But hey, bats aren't. They feel great at night. So they aren't racists. Oh, wait, they are. They prefer black. Hence, they are black racists.
- What's next? Banning chess? Because let's face it, white has advantage in chess. It makes the first move.
- But why are black credit cards considered the most privileged?? They are also racist then.
- Presidents usually have black limos. Racists. They should have zebra-like limos, with equal surface area covered by white and black.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
blacklist | Etymology of blacklist by etymonline
"list of persons who have incurred suspicion, earned punishment, or are for any reason… See origin and meaning of blacklist.
www.etymonline.com
The word appears to not have a foundation in race. It has more of a foundation from employer/worker relations.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
When I think of color science, black is defined as an absence of color while white is defined as the presence of all colors. In computer science, the equivalent RGB values for black are 0, 0, 0 and for white 255, 255, 255. In other words an absence of color is black and the presence of all colors is white.
Colors in paints are made with pigments, in other words, they rely on the natural ability of materials to either absorb or reflect light. A material that absorbs all light is black, and a material that diffusely reflects all light is white. White pigment, for example, Ti02 (titanium dioxide) Black - carbon.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
When they show up at your door, please let us know!
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
In other words, its a clickbait article - just like other topics often posted on TS. After all, look at the number of comments it has generated so far.
IMO, its not particularly that simple. At least the word blacklist has an origin that has no basis in any race of humanity.
To me, its a point of view that has three sides to it - racist, not racist, no racial connotation at all.
Its a point of view that makes the words racist especially since race had no basis in the origin of blacklist.
I think the proclamation rather silly.
Tyr Antilles
Posts: 15 +9
Next step in this way of thinking will be to ban Star Wars because Darth Vader and Sith lords are "black" and this can be associated (in their dumb minds) with the black race, while the "white" Jedi are the good white guys.
Obviously for anyone with an intelligence a little bit higher then a mole-rat, the therm "blacklist" comes from the association with black color-denied-no, while "whitelist" comes from white color-allowed-yes.
To try to imply something racist here is digging **** and is just plain dumb.
Obviously for anyone with an intelligence a little bit higher then a mole-rat, the therm "blacklist" comes from the association with black color-denied-no, while "whitelist" comes from white color-allowed-yes.
To try to imply something racist here is digging **** and is just plain dumb.
Seraphim401
Posts: 90 +37
Once you allow this kind of ahistoric etymology-disregarding nonsense it will forever recognize no limit. Next they will protest, why call it allow list in the first place, why could not allow everyone at all? How injustice? How about anyone who don't have the necessary infrastructure (internet), are you going to disregard them entirely just because they are not "able"? How about disabled people who don't have internet connection, will you call them disabledisable, they are double minority and you disrespect them? How about this, how about that, recognize my internet pronoun! It's a crime to mock my avatar! You internet racist fascist!
And so ON. And so FORTH.
This is a huge mistake and you will reap what you sow. Soon.
And so ON. And so FORTH.
This is a huge mistake and you will reap what you sow. Soon.
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When they are keeping this kind of reasoning up then next we can not say that shitt is brown then Africans are brown and we are then comparing any brown skinned race to something dirty.
And so all fantasy books should be rewritten then you have the good white magic and the evil and bad black magic also StarWars then Luke Skywalker's father wants him to come to the dark (evil, bad) side.
These specifications have nothing to do with race or skin color.
And no one else then people who only think racial see this as race specific. And call it racist. So who are the actual racists, the people who try to ban anny thing they can think of linking to skin color or race.
How must Russian emigrants feel that in movies Russians always as the evil or criminal are portraited.
And so all fantasy books should be rewritten then you have the good white magic and the evil and bad black magic also StarWars then Luke Skywalker's father wants him to come to the dark (evil, bad) side.
These specifications have nothing to do with race or skin color.
And no one else then people who only think racial see this as race specific. And call it racist. So who are the actual racists, the people who try to ban anny thing they can think of linking to skin color or race.
How must Russian emigrants feel that in movies Russians always as the evil or criminal are portraited.
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Agreed. We need to petition Disney to ban all Star Wars movies, TV shows, cartoons and toys because being tempted to the Dark Side is a reference to black people and we all know how evil they are.
Also, all zebras should be captured and spray-painted some non-racist colour like turquoise. Or, just shot for being racist.
Don't get me started on Snow White.
AND the seven dwarves? Man, if that’s not worthy of a sick porno and nothing else I don’t know what is.
D
DelJo63
OK STUPID -- try Green List and Red List -- SHEEZ!!
Cycloid Torus
Posts: 4,892 +1,711
Think of positive 'blacks' - like on a profit statement - "in the black". Jewelry - obsidian, onyx, black pearls, etc
It's more about contrast than 'race'.
It's more about contrast than 'race'.
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