California will require all newly-sold trucks to be zero-emissions by 2045

Polycount

Posts: 2,446   +549
Staff member
In context: California has long been one of the primary proponents of clean energy and climate protection-focused policies and regulations. The state hit its emissions target a whopping four years ahead of schedule, as we reported in 2018, but California's leaders don't want to leave well enough alone.

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has announced a "first-in-the-world" rule that will require all truck and van manufacturers to transition from diesel vehicles to zero-emission alternatives starting in 2024.

The transition will be a lengthy one: manufacturers will have until 2045 to fully switch over. However, when the time comes, every truck sold in California must be electric (or otherwise zero-emissions).

The CARB hopes this rule will significantly reduce pollution in some of California's most "disadvantaged and polluted communities," including low-income and "Black and Brown" neighborhoods.

California's leadership seems confident that the state will hit its new targets. "California is an innovation juggernaut that is going electric," said California Secretary for Environmental Protection Jared Blumenfeld. "We are showing the world that we can move goods, grow our economy and finally dump dirty diesel."

California says trucks are the "largest single source" of vehicle air pollution, carrying the responsibility for "70 percent of the smog-causing pollution" and 80 percent of "carcinogenic diesel soot," despite making up only a small portion of the total number of on-road vehicles.

The CARB expects its upcoming regulations to lead to increased corporate investment in the development and production of electric trucks. It remains to be seen whether or not that will be the case.

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Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,882   +2,242
And in 2044, that deadline will be pushed out to 2065 and so on. All these "targets" are unobtainable with current technology, and those in charge KNOW that. Not to mention a metric shitload of companies register their Californian trucks in states like arizona or new mexico anyway, so this wont stop much. Only a fool registers their vehicles in Cali.

EDIT: and California still imports a great deal of electricity from out of state, from areas burning that dang dirty coal, and will be adding widespread pollution from cobalt, nickle, and lithium mining onto the impact sheet.
 
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Evernessince

Posts: 5,102   +5,345
And in 2044, that deadline will be pushed out to 2065 and so on. All these "targets" are unobtainable with current technology, and those in charge KNOW that. Not to mention a metric shitload of companies register their Californian trucks in states like arizona or new mexico anyway, so this wont stop much. Only a fool registers their vehicles in Cali.

EDIT: and California still imports a great deal of electricity from out of state, from areas burning that dang dirty coal, and will be adding widespread pollution from cobalt, nickle, and lithium mining onto the impact sheet.
Given that coal is only a small percentage of power generation in the US, most of which is situated in the south-eastern corner of the US, I very much doubt California is getting much of it's power from coal fired plants

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
https://www.powermag.com/map-of-coal-fired-power-plants-in-the-united-states/

Thank god california does set strict emission standards. If you haven't noticed American cities are no longer covered by a toxic haze. It's nice to be able to breath without having an asthma attack.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,363
Well I guess I know what lithium mining and automanufacturers to invest in over the next 10 years.
There is a great deal of research going on right now into batteries that use something other than lithium. As I see it, it would be nothing more than a bet to invest in lithium at this point.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,363
Given that coal is only a small percentage of power generation in the US, most of which is situated in the south-eastern corner of the US, I very much doubt California is getting much of it's power from coal fired plants

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
https://www.powermag.com/map-of-coal-fired-power-plants-in-the-united-states/

Thank god california does set strict emission standards. If you haven't noticed American cities are no longer covered by a toxic haze. It's nice to be able to breath without having an asthma attack.
There is plenty of evidence that air pollution causes major health problems and that body of evidence continues to grow. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-evidence-causal-link-air-pollution.html

IMO, only fools will be against this. If pollution were to go unabated, the health costs alone will cost more than the efforts to eliminate pollution. https://www.epa.gov/transportation-...ents-and-success-air-pollution-transportation
 

psycros

Posts: 3,131   +3,242
Given that coal is only a small percentage of power generation in the US, most of which is situated in the south-eastern corner of the US, I very much doubt California is getting much of it's power from coal fired plants

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
https://www.powermag.com/map-of-coal-fired-power-plants-in-the-united-states/

Thank god california does set strict emission standards. If you haven't noticed American cities are no longer covered by a toxic haze. It's nice to be able to breath without having an asthma attack.
Coal is the #2 source of power in the US behind natural gas, which is nearly zero-emission. You'd think the enviro-cultists would be all for building more gas power plants but their not..somehow drilling to extract a clean and efficient power source is against their religion.
 
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GeforcerFX

Posts: 944   +437
Coal is the #2 source of power in the US behind natural gas, which is nearly zero-emission. You'd think the enviro-cultists would be all for building more gas power plants but their not..somehow drilling to extract a clean and efficient power source is against their religion.
There only lower emission if they have CCS or CCU tech which only like 5-10% have at the moment (mainly USA and Europe). CCU can drop emissions to 200g-300g of CO2 per kWh, average is 500g of CO2 per kWh. Which is nearly half of newer coal power plants, and older coal plants can push 2000g of CO2 per KWh. The new hydrogen tech though could be a game changer for natural gas plants, drops the plants to sub 150g of CO2 per kWh and increases energy production compared to straight methane, though methane is more dense.
 

Ludak021

Posts: 192   +140
And in 2044, that deadline will be pushed out to 2065 and so on. All these "targets" are unobtainable with current technology, and those in charge KNOW that. Not to mention a metric shitload of companies register their Californian trucks in states like arizona or new mexico anyway, so this wont stop much. Only a fool registers their vehicles in Cali.

EDIT: and California still imports a great deal of electricity from out of state, from areas burning that dang dirty coal, and will be adding widespread pollution from cobalt, nickle, and lithium mining onto the impact sheet.
yea but far left looks good doing this, ignorant uneducated sheeple will cheer. It's all they wanted, to look good.
 

Ludak021

Posts: 192   +140
Given that coal is only a small percentage of power generation in the US, most of which is situated in the south-eastern corner of the US, I very much doubt California is getting much of it's power from coal fired plants

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
https://www.powermag.com/map-of-coal-fired-power-plants-in-the-united-states/

Thank god california does set strict emission standards. If you haven't noticed American cities are no longer covered by a toxic haze. It's nice to be able to breath without having an asthma attack.
Why are people moving out of Cali then? You seem to be living a different reality then the rest of other normal people in the US. There was never toxic haze in US since, at least last 50 years. Mainly because you have no more industry, it's in China. Don't mind the hooligans and police nuttered. That's not toxic at all.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,363
Why are people moving out of Cali then? You seem to be living a different reality then the rest of other normal people in the US. There was never toxic haze in US since, at least last 50 years. Mainly because you have no more industry, it's in China. Don't mind the hooligans and police nuttered. That's not toxic at all.
:facepalm: No link to support this? In fact, it is the opposite of what you say - https://journal.firsttuesday.us/golden-state-population-trends/9007/
https://www.macrotrends.net/states/california/population
A declining rate of population increase does not equate to a population decrease. In fact, the population of CA is still increasing.

The right pretends to have a truthful narrative when it fact, much of the right's narrative is blatantly false and/or littered with half-truths. They seem to hope that their followers will just accept everything they say as the gospel truth.
 

candle_86

Posts: 313   +245
:facepalm: No link to support this? In fact, it is the opposite of what you say - https://journal.firsttuesday.us/golden-state-population-trends/9007/
https://www.macrotrends.net/states/california/population
A declining rate of population increase does not equate to a population decrease. In fact, the population of CA is still increasing.

The right pretends to have a truthful narrative when it fact, much of the right's narrative is blatantly false and/or littered with half-truths. They seem to hope that their followers will just accept everything they say as the gospel truth.
Housing crisis in Texas tripled prices in Austin and DFW as more people where moving in from predominantly California, it made headlines here everytime another company decided to ditch commiefornia and relocate to Texas. My sister bought a house in 2012 for 63k, she sold it in 2015 for 218k, she did no major repairs, it still looked outdated and needed repairs, the price was simply because so many people where flocking to the region their wasn't enough housing. We even have number stickers and a few put up billboards, such as don't California my Texas, or Texas is full go back to California.
 

Hexic

Posts: 711   +671
TechSpot Elite
Housing crisis in Texas tripled prices in Austin and DFW as more people where moving in from predominantly California, it made headlines here everytime another company decided to ditch commiefornia and relocate to Texas. My sister bought a house in 2012 for 63k, she sold it in 2015 for 218k, she did no major repairs, it still looked outdated and needed repairs, the price was simply because so many people where flocking to the region their wasn't enough housing. We even have number stickers and a few put up billboards, such as don't California my Texas, or Texas is full go back to California.
The Phoenix area has had a huge influx of individuals moving from CA to the PHX metro area over the last decade. In talking to them, they're all saying a very similar story: We're running away from bad government, too many useless regulations, high taxes, and crazies.

I just hope the crazies stay over there and don't begin influencing AZ with their ludicrous politics.

Other than that, CA is a beautiful state. Shame about the locals though.
 

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,882   +2,242
Given that coal is only a small percentage of power generation in the US, most of which is situated in the south-eastern corner of the US, I very much doubt California is getting much of it's power from coal fired plants

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
https://www.powermag.com/map-of-coal-fired-power-plants-in-the-united-states/
And notice the small cluster in arizona and new mexico? Neither of those states are major power users owing to their small populations. Guess were that coal power ends up?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judecl...ng-imported-electricity-problem/#3bd297a54469

6% of california's power usage comes from coal, 33% comes from out of state, up from 25% in 2010, and those numbers have only climbed. Pushing for "muh electrics" will only raise that number, as California has been stubborn in building anything other then solar, which is useless at night, which is when most of these electric vehicles are charged. Oops.

Thank god california does set strict emission standards. If you haven't noticed American cities are no longer covered by a toxic haze. It's nice to be able to breath without having an asthma attack.
Exporting your pollution over state lines and overseas isnt "fixing" anything. You trade your haze for rampant groundwater pollution from cobalt and nickle mining and increased waste from frequent battery replacements.
 

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,882   +2,242
The Phoenix area has had a huge influx of individuals moving from CA to the PHX metro area over the last decade. In talking to them, they're all saying a very similar story: We're running away from bad government, too many useless regulations, high taxes, and crazies.

I just hope the crazies stay over there and don't begin influencing AZ with their ludicrous politics.

Other than that, CA is a beautiful state. Shame about the locals though.
I have bad news for you, they will bring the craziness with them. Look at huston and dallas. Look at colorado, or virginia.

They may seem sensible now, but in 5 years they'll go back to their No True Scotsman fallacy and begin pushing the same politics.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,363
Housing crisis in Texas tripled prices in Austin and DFW as more people where moving in from predominantly California, it made headlines here everytime another company decided to ditch commiefornia and relocate to Texas. My sister bought a house in 2012 for 63k, she sold it in 2015 for 218k, she did no major repairs, it still looked outdated and needed repairs, the price was simply because so many people where flocking to the region their wasn't enough housing. We even have number stickers and a few put up billboards, such as don't California my Texas, or Texas is full go back to California.
The Phoenix area has had a huge influx of individuals moving from CA to the PHX metro area over the last decade. In talking to them, they're all saying a very similar story: We're running away from bad government, too many useless regulations, high taxes, and crazies.

I just hope the crazies stay over there and don't begin influencing AZ with their ludicrous politics.

Other than that, CA is a beautiful state. Shame about the locals though.
Neither of those reasons surprise me, and as the housing (or any) market becomes tighter, there is no doubt that prices will rise. It is called "The Free Market" or "Capitalism". It sounds like some are getting a great return on their investment, though.

I am willing to bet that those who are moving out of the state have philosophies that are more like the philosophies of the states that they are moving to. From both of your comments, that sounds like it is the case; so perhaps they figured out that they made the wrong choice, as relates to what is best for them, to move to CA in the first place.

It sounds like those reasons are certainly not "We moved out of CA because the air was cleaner and it was getting cleaner all the time" as implied by other comments to this thread.

I think its pretty clear that before the Clean Air act was passed in 1970 that air quality in many places in the US (much like the air in many places like China and India now) was terrible - so much so it was causing health problems.

In that, my opinion is that some people will do everything and anything to save short-term $$$ while they remain, perhaps, unaware that the long-term costs are far greater than the "savings" they experience in the short-term.

As I see it, regulation was the only way that those who care only about the short-term costs would do anything about the mess, costs, and problems they were creating for themselves, others, and the future.

There are those out there that do not give a crap about anything except for how much their short-term costs are. For those people, as I see it, regulation is a necessity in some cases; otherwise, they will gladly harm themselves and others in pursuit of the lowest possible costs.

If you do not think that there is something wrong with that, that is your prerogative; however, I highly suggest you educate yourself on what real communism is rather than narrate to us how you think CA is a communist state.

I do not think that it is acceptable from any point of view that anyone or any business should be allowed to do things that are harmful to anyone or anything, directly or indirectly through things like harming the environment, no matter how much money it saves them, and if it takes regulations to enforce that, I am all for it.
 
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Evernessince

Posts: 5,102   +5,345
6% of california's power usage comes from coal, 33% comes from out of state, up from 25% in 2010, and those numbers have only climbed. Pushing for "muh electrics" will only raise that number, as California has been stubborn in building anything other then solar, which is useless at night, which is when most of these electric vehicles are charged. Oops.

Exporting your pollution over state lines and overseas isnt "fixing" anything. You trade your haze for rampant groundwater pollution from cobalt and nickle mining and increased waste from frequent battery replacements.
You do realize your article is from 2016 right?

Even by 2018, that number was down to 4.13%


FYI the national average from coal power is 11%. If you are trying to convince people that cali is in fact dirty, you are having the opposite effect.

Why are people moving out of Cali then? You seem to be living a different reality then the rest of other normal people in the US. There was never toxic haze in US since, at least last 50 years. Mainly because you have no more industry, it's in China. Don't mind the hooligans and police nuttered. That's not toxic at all.
Well for starters smog still exists in the US


Second, the US certainly did have severe smog issues


There are dozens and dozen of articles on the subject. The only reality I'm living in is the one where I'm not burying me head in the sand like a numbskull.

The whole "people are moving out of cali thing" is just off topic. First, you've provided no proof to back it up. Second, people move out of states all the time. I assume you mean in mass but you never specified. Third, people move for a variety of reasons. Attributing it to whatever point you happen to be on is foolish at best. You can't bend the rules of the world to fit your point.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,363
The whole "people are moving out of cali thing" is just off topic. First, you've provided no proof to back it up. Second, people move out of states all the time. I assume you mean in mass but you never specified. Third, people move for a variety of reasons. Attributing it to whatever point you happen to be on is foolish at best. You can't bend the rules of the world to fit your point.
It seems some people just cannot resist throwing a straw man on the fire because it looks cool when it burns up. :rolleyes:
 

Hexic

Posts: 711   +671
TechSpot Elite
It seems some people just cannot resist throwing a straw man on the fire because it looks cool when it burns up. :rolleyes:
And the first search result of Google threw the torch.


But let’s not bother with those pesky facts. They get in the way of the Golden State rhetoric.
 

Uncle Al

Posts: 7,098   +5,453
I am still waiting for some realistic data on load & length of travel for these electric trucks. Seems they have bounced all over the board on them but if they honestly expect any company to comply, the companies will need to know that data and adjust their fee's for hauling accordingly .... and from the looks of it, that could easily double or more the costs!
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,102   +5,345
And the first search result of Google threw the torch.


But let’s not bother with those pesky facts. They get in the way of the Golden State rhetoric.
You are proving his point.

Still has NOTHING to do with the topic.

Cali isn't even the state loosing the most residents from people moving


If you want to talk about people moving out of states make a thread about it. Otherwise keep your comments at least environmentally / vehicle related. At least then they'd be in the same ballpark.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,363
And the first search result of Google threw the torch.


But let’s not bother with those pesky facts. They get in the way of the Golden State rhetoric.
And again with the straw man argument - CA's net population change is positive, not negative. The original post that stated the straw man argument implied that the net change in population was negative. Statistics show CA's population growth is still positive. https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/california-population/

The original straw man post tried, IMO, to imply that the reason that people were moving out of CA was clean air. That, in and of itself, is a rather specious argument. I simply can't see anyone moving out of anywhere and their primary reason for doing so being "The air is too clean".