Choose Your Own Adventure publisher sues Netflix over Black Mirror: Bandersnatch

funglebuddy

TS Enthusiast
"Part of Chooseco's marketing strategy includes appealing to adults now in their twenties, thirties, and forties who remember the brand with pleasant nostalgia from their youth and then buy Choose Your Own Adventure books for their own children," the complaint reads."
What a bunch of losers.
1) No one remembers 'Choose Your Own Adventure Books'. NO ONE.
2) Your seriously picking a fight with Netflix over this, the same company that helped put Black Mirror on the map?
I hope Chooseco dies a horrible, office on fire, cars running into cars, cats jumping off roofs death.

1. I do they were good books and 2. it may be biting a bit off more than they can chew because netflix according to them did ask Chooseco for permission before and they said no soooo it is a legitimate lawsuit. And Choose your own Adventure isnt a common phrase its a title of a series of books. It may be petty but its legal.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Choose your own adventure is a common phrase in my opinion. Think telltale games choose your own adventure games. I can list multiple occasions where choose your own adventure is used besides talking about books.
And why do you think it's a common phrase? Same way "Don't leave home without it" is now a common phrase...
 

Eldritch

TS Addict
And why do you think it's a common phrase? Same way "Don't leave home without it" is now a common phrase...
And would you support suing all the people who utter that common term in an YouTube video or TV show even when its not the logo or main focus but merely a part of dialogue? Does it not result is curbing of speech by the corporates?
Considering the number of companies, if all were to be copyright trolls then every single content cretor will be drowning in these frivolous litigations.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
And would you support suing all the people who utter that common term in an YouTube video or TV show even when its not the logo or main focus but merely a part of dialogue? Does it not result is curbing of speech by the corporates?
Considering the number of companies, if all were to be copyright trolls then every single content cretor will be drowning in these frivolous litigations.
No... I’d support suing anyone who intends to profit from someone else’s trademarked name.... and we know it’s intentional because they asked for (and did not get) permission to use it.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
This is the exact link https://www.techspot.com/tag/netflix/ it leads to a list of netflix articles. I don't have the time to click through all the articles to find whatever fact your quoting.
I think you’re suffering from some sort of brain aneurism perhaps? Maybe have a doctor check you out?

Let me be VERY clear... you are currently commenting on a very specific article detailing the lawsuit between Netflix and Chooseco. The article specifically states that Netflix asked permission to use the phrase “choose your own adventure” but Chooseco said no. Netflix proceeded to use it anyways...

Hint: paragraph 2
 
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Eldritch

TS Addict
No... I’d support suing anyone who intends to profit from someone else’s trademarked name.... and we know it’s intentional because they asked for (and did not get) permission to use it.
Please enlighten us how NetFlix profited from using a simple dialogue which had a part of a line that a copyright troll owns ?

Also, hurray for your enthusiam to curb free speech for even innocous dialogues. Lets open a dozen companies with common catchphrases and start trolling big corporates. YaY!
 
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Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Please enlighten us how NetFlix profited from using a simple dialogue which had a part of a line that a copyright troll owns ?

Also, hurray for your enthusiam to curb free speech for even innocous dialogues. Lets open a dozen companies with common catchphrases and start trolling big corporates. YaY!
Well, that’s the whole point of the lawsuit.... Chooseco alleges that the connection between “Choose your own adventure” and Bandersnatch- which occurred without their permission, will tarnish their brand. Netflix asked for permission to use the phrase - they obviously did it because they felt it would increase the popularity/ profitability of the title (otherwise why bother?!?).

As I posted originally, but you probably failed to read (or understand), it will be very difficult to prove damages... the only thing clear cut is that Netflix was wrong - whether it’s financially wrong is for a court to decide.
 

Eldritch

TS Addict
Well, that’s the whole point of the lawsuit.... Chooseco alleges that the connection between “Choose your own adventure” and Bandersnatch- which occurred without their permission, will tarnish their brand. Netflix asked for permission to use the phrase - they obviously did it because they felt it would increase the popularity/ profitability of the title (otherwise why bother?!?).

As I posted originally, but you probably failed to read (or understand), it will be very difficult to prove damages... the only thing clear cut is that Netflix was wrong - whether it’s financially wrong is for a court to decide.
You have failed to prove your own claim. You stated
"I’d support suing anyone who intends to profit from someone else’s trademarked name"
and then when asked how Netflix profited from this you dilly dallied and went running to "very difficult to prove damages".
Keep on shifting goal posts as this is the only thing that can be done when your foundation is hollow.
The only thing this case shows is how much desperate and pathetic 'Chose your own adventure' 0series owners are that they decided to sue someone big just to get attention and gain free popularity from controversy as they are too broke and cheap to do real advertising.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
You have failed to prove your own claim. You stated
"I’d support suing anyone who intends to profit from someone else’s trademarked name"
and then when asked how Netflix profited from this you dilly dallied and went running to "very difficult to prove damages".
Keep on shifting goal posts as this is the only thing that can be done when your foundation is hollow.
The only thing this case shows is how much desperate and pathetic 'Chose your own adventure' 0series owners are that they decided to sue someone big just to get attention and gain free popularity from controversy as they are too broke and cheap to do real advertising.
I understand reading is not your strong suit... but I ask you to please re-read the article, along with ALL of the comments....

To answer your inane comment, again, the point is pretty clear: Netflix thinks that using the phrase “Choose your own adventure” will result in more viewers, thus more money in the long run - more renewals, more subscriptions, etc.... but this is irrelevant to the lawsuit - I only stated this because of your question....

The LAWSUIT doesn’t care how much money Netflix makes - Chooseco is claiming that the use of their trademark will damage their brand! As I stated, previously, proving this will be difficult....

What IS clear, but apparently you don’t see it, is that Netflix knew they were in the wrong when they used it. Otherwise, why would they have asked permission to use it in the first place?

I’m not sure which of these rather simple concepts you are failing to grasp...
 

Eldritch

TS Addict
I understand reading is not your strong suit... but I ask you to please re-read the article, along with ALL of the comments....

To answer your inane comment, again, the point is pretty clear: Netflix thinks that using the phrase “Choose your own adventure” will result in more viewers, thus more money in the long run - more renewals, more subscriptions, etc.... but this is irrelevant to the lawsuit - I only stated this because of your question....

The LAWSUIT doesn’t care how much money Netflix makes - Chooseco is claiming that the use of their trademark will damage their brand! As I stated, previously, proving this will be difficult....

What IS clear, but apparently you don’t see it, is that Netflix knew they were in the wrong when they used it. Otherwise, why would they have asked permission to use it in the first place?

I’m not sure which of these rather simple concepts you are failing to grasp...
Using harsh language when you fail to make a point is hallmark of trolls and their defenders which is followed by the ironclad 'argument' that :

'Netflix thinks that using the phrase “Choose your own adventure” will result in more viewers, thus more money in the long run - more renewals, more subscriptions, etc....'

So you know what they think too. Amazing esp when the said line is just a part of dialogue, is the icing on the cake. Absolutely hilaruous.
There is precedent that common phrases were taken away from the owners when they launched frivolous lawsuits. Do some research. It will be even more hilarious if the phrase Chose your own adventure is taken away from them.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Using harsh language when you fail to make a point is hallmark of trolls and their defenders which is followed by the ironclad 'argument' that :

'Netflix thinks that using the phrase “Choose your own adventure” will result in more viewers, thus more money in the long run - more renewals, more subscriptions, etc....'

So you know what they think too. Amazing esp when the said line is just a part of dialogue, is the icing on the cake. Absolutely hilaruous.
There is precedent that common phrases were taken away from the owners when they launched frivolous lawsuits. Do some research. It will be even more hilarious if the phrase Chose your own adventure is taken away from them.
I believe the pot has just called the kettle black... since you feel hard done by, I’m going to assume you don’t comprehend the actual posts I’ve written... you’ve lost the actual point of the lawsuit.... it isn’t about Netflix and how they are profiting from using a phrase... it’s about Chooseco claiming that Netflix’s use of the phrase damages them.

I have NOT claimed that this is actually true - I’ve stated many times now that this will be hard to prove in a court of law.

For the last time, the ONLY thing we actually do know (at least according to the article), is that Chooseco denied Netflix’s request to use the phrase “choose your own adventure” but Netflix decided to use it anyways...

I’m not sure where your confusion arises here. Can you please let me know exactly what you don’t comprehend?
 

Eldritch

TS Addict
I believe the pot has just called the kettle black... since you feel hard done by, I’m going to assume you don’t comprehend the actual posts I’ve written... you’ve lost the actual point of the lawsuit.... it isn’t about Netflix and how they are profiting from using a phrase... it’s about Chooseco claiming that Netflix’s use of the phrase damages them.

I have NOT claimed that this is actually true - I’ve stated many times now that this will be hard to prove in a court of law.

For the last time, the ONLY thing we actually do know (at least according to the article), is that Chooseco denied Netflix’s request to use the phrase “choose your own adventure” but Netflix decided to use it anyways...

I’m not sure where your confusion arises here. Can you please let me know exactly what you don’t comprehend?
Read your own comments. You stated that Netflix profited from this and gave a hilaruously bad argument in support of it.
Regarding damage claim you also agreed is 'extremely hard' to prove. Real people don't act like
'Ohhhh there was mention of XYZ' s catchphrase in a dialogue of the ABC show. I will not but XYZ ever again! '

Only thread you are hanging by is Netflix asked to use the phrase. To which I and some of the other commentators have said that its a very common phrase so obviously Netflix figured that it will be in clear even without the permission and went ahead.
It will be a great slap on the copyrighy trolls face, if the phrase is deemed to be too common, which it is, and the copyright is stripped away as had already happened with other trolls.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Read your own comments. You stated that Netflix profited from this and gave a hilaruously bad argument in support of it.
Regarding damage claim you also agreed is 'extremely hard' to prove. Real people don't act like
'Ohhhh there was mention of XYZ' s catchphrase in a dialogue of the ABC show. I will not but XYZ ever again! '

Only thread you are hanging by is Netflix asked to use the phrase. To which I and some of the other commentators have said that its a very common phrase so obviously Netflix figured that it will be in clear even without the permission and went ahead.
It will be a great slap on the copyrighy trolls face, if the phrase is deemed to be too common, which it is, and the copyright is stripped away as had already happened with other trolls.
I did read my comments.... I’m beginning to believe that you really haven’t - or at least you didn’t understand them.

I never said that Netflix profited from this... I said that Netflix must have thought they would - otherwise why do it? And, for the last time I hope, the profitability of this for Netflix does not pertain to the lawsuit! The lawsuit is Chooseco claiming that the use of their brand “Choose your own adventure” is damaging them. I already posted that this would be very hard to prove - you’re the one who has stated that I’m on Chooseco’s side in all this.

And I’ve already stated (as have multiple others) that the commonality of the phrase is not relevant - the phrase is common BECAUSE of Chooseco’s use of it over the past several decades.... and they have the trademark to prove it. If Netflix really thought that it was ok to use the phrase without permission from Chooseco, WHY ASK PERMISSION?

What I DID state, is that both parties will probably settle, with both profiting from the lawsuit. The publicity helps both companies, and the settlement will help Chooseco (even the full amount of $25 million is a drop in the water for Netflix but will probably be very useful for Chooseco), and of course, the lawyers for both sides get paid...

Do you understand yet?
 

cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
They're literally complaining about having free advertising. Meanwhile there are millions of companies that have to pay for advertising. Yet they want to "cease-and-desist" free advertising. Seriously look at what other horror movies/series have done to innocent children books. These people need to get a life.
 
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Eldritch

TS Addict
I did read my comments.... I’m beginning to believe that you really haven’t - or at least you didn’t understand them.

I never said that Netflix profited from this... I said that Netflix must have thought they would - otherwise why do it? And, for the last time I hope, the profitability of this for Netflix does not pertain to the lawsuit! The lawsuit is Chooseco claiming that the use of their brand “Choose your own adventure” is damaging them. I already posted that this would be very hard to prove - you’re the one who has stated that I’m on Chooseco’s side in all this.

And I’ve already stated (as have multiple others) that the commonality of the phrase is not relevant - the phrase is common BECAUSE of Chooseco’s use of it over the past several decades.... and they have the trademark to prove it. If Netflix really thought that it was ok to use the phrase without permission from Chooseco, WHY ASK PERMISSION?

What I DID state, is that both parties will probably settle, with both profiting from the lawsuit. The publicity helps both companies, and the settlement will help Chooseco (even the full amount of $25 million is a drop in the water for Netflix but will probably be very useful for Chooseco), and of course, the lawyers for both sides get paid...

Do you understand yet?
Why they should give these trolls even a dollar when the case will either be tossed away as frivolous litigation or the Choseco may lose their common worded phrase. This parasitic behaviour, hoping for a settlement or free advertising from controversy is pathetic and should they should be given exemplary punishment for trolling like this without any factual claim.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Why they should give these trolls even a dollar when the case will either be tossed away as frivolous litigation or the Choseco may lose their common worded phrase. This parasitic behaviour, hoping for a settlement or free advertising from controversy is pathetic and should they should be given exemplary punishment for trolling like this without any factual claim.
Let’s not forget that Netflix also gains free advertising.... it’s not parasitic so much as it’s symbiotic... everyone wins....

And it’s not completely free.... lawsuits cost money - lawyers get paid...

And how do you see any possible end result where Chooseco loses their trademark on “Choose your own adventure”?
 

Eldritch

TS Addict
Let’s not forget that Netflix also gains free advertising.... it’s not parasitic so much as it’s symbiotic... everyone wins....

And it’s not completely free.... lawsuits cost money - lawyers get paid...

And how do you see any possible end result where Chooseco loses their trademark on “Choose your own adventure”?
Google it, its pretty easy to find when copyright trolls get whats coming for them (Disney one was quite fun). Also, you will find that even the trademark names (not the catchphrase but the brand name itself) can be made public domain. Companies know it and actively try to avoid it. Do some research and you will learn that its a very real possibility and it will be utterly hilaruous to see Choseco bite the dust trying to get free publicity by creating unnecessary controversy.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Google it, its pretty easy to find when copyright trolls get whats coming for them (Disney one was quite fun). Also, you will find that even the trademark names (not the catchphrase but the brand name itself) can be made public domain. Companies know it and actively try to avoid it. Do some research and you will learn that its a very real possibility and it will be utterly hilaruous to see Choseco bite the dust trying to get free publicity by creating unnecessary controversy.
Lol... I looked it up... and in order to be revoked, it has to become FAR more popular than it already is - there’s also a considerable amount of behind the scenes negotiating that brings “brand genericide” into play...
This isn’t Aspirin or Elevators... this is a pretty specific phrase used as book titles for decades.

While I suppose anything is possible, I’d put the odds of Chooseco losing their trademark over this at under 1 percent...
 

Jamie Flower

TS Rookie
I think you’re suffering from some sort of brain aneurism perhaps? Maybe have a doctor check you out?

Let me be VERY clear... you are currently commenting on a very specific article detailing the lawsuit between Netflix and Chooseco. The article specifically states that Netflix asked permission to use the phrase “choose your own adventure” but Chooseco said no. Netflix proceeded to use it anyways...

Hint: paragraph 2
Wrong, paragraph two says that Chooseco claims Netflix wanted to license the trademark. Licensing a trademark, and referencing it in a line of dialogue are not the same thing.
 
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Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Wrong, paragraph two says that Chooseco claims Netflix wanted to license the trademark. Licensing a trademark, and referencing it in a line of dialogue are not the same thing.
Not in a legal sense perhaps - we'll see where the lawsuit goes - but in the terms of this thread, YES IT IS.

Assuming Chooseco's claim is accurate (and Netflix has yet to deny it), then Netflix asked permission to use Chooseco's trademark in Bandersnatch. How they INTENDED to use it when they originally asked permission is unknown - perhaps they wanted actual choose your own adventure books in the movie?. What we do know is that they used the phrase, "Choose your own adventure" in the movie, after being denied permission to use the trademark.

What the lawsuit will decide is whether this is legal or not... a couple of days ago, Netflix filed to have the case dismissed https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/netflix-chooseco.pdf

If you'll notice, on that PDF, paragraph 2 says this:
"The original Complaint filed by plaintiff Chooseco LLC (“Chooseco”) challenged only a brief snippet of dialogue, in which the protagonist describes the fictitious book on which his videogame is based (both also titled “Bandersnatch”) as a “Choose Your Own Adventure” book, a reference to the book’s narrative device. Chooseco alleged that by using this common – and accurate – phrase to describe the narrative structure of the “Bandersnatch” book, Defendant Netflix, Inc. (“Netflix”) infringed Chooseco’s trademark rights."

So yes, the argument is over the usage of the phrase, "Choose your own adventure".... we'll wait and see whether it is trademark infringement or whether it is using a common and accurate phrase to describe their narrative...
 

Jamie Flower

TS Rookie
"then Netflix asked permission to use Chooseco's trademark in Bandersnatch. "
NO THEY DIDN'T! Where are getting this from? According to this article they wanted license the trade mark, the article says NOTHING about them asking permission regarding the content of a Black Mirror movie. Do you really think that movies, TV shows etc should be open to lawsuits for mentioning the existence of brand names in dialogue? I think that is ridiculous.