Core i9-10900K available for preorder, but it'll cost you

[Rdmetz]

1. X470 came out in 2018 not 2017 and when he purchased his pc in April 2019 it was the most current hardware available. He didn't buy old hardware and to say he must have predicted the future is just silly. He did what any normal person would do and just bought the most recent possible.

Stop making excuses for AMD fanboys really get on my nerves when they can accuse another company of treacherous actions but then excuse something similar from their own camp.

My original point still stands and buying any of these chips with the expectation that you WILL get to upgrade without need for other new hardware is stupid. And if you are in need of a cpu upgrade the developments in other tech involved in the motherboard space should have improved enough that it inky makes sense to get a new one for those technologies themselves.

 

[HardReset]

1. X470 came out in 2018 not 2017 and when he purchased his pc in April 2019 it was the most current hardware available. He didn't buy old hardware and to say he must have predicted the future is just silly. He did what any normal person would do and just bought the most recent possible.

Stop making excuses for AMD fanboys really get on my nerves when they can accuse another company of treacherous actions but then excuse something similar from their own camp.

My original point still stands and buying any of these chips with the expectation that you WILL get to upgrade without need for other new hardware is stupid. And if you are in need of a cpu upgrade the developments in other tech involved in the motherboard space should have improved enough that it inky makes sense to get a new one for those technologies themselves.

1. x470 is 100% same as x370 that came out 2017. So x470 is 2017 stuff, not 2018. Same way you could say that R9 280 came out 2014. Except that's exactly same as 7950 that came out 2012...

April 2019 x470 was old hardware, he was basically buying EOL product then. He should have predicted that there will be something new when Zen2 launches, and Zen2 launch was expected less than 6 months later. Point is: when you want good upgrade path, you just cannot randomly buy something. You really must plan ahead. That's what I do. So far, I have upgraded CPU to Every motherboard I have ever bought. And first PC I bought was somewhere around Pentium MMX era.

AMD is no way comparable to Intel this way. Even if your friend bought x470 April 2019, he still has better upgrade paths than Intel has ever offered.

It's not stupid. As I stated, I have upgraded CPU to every motherboard I have bought. It's just, if you randomly buy "something" and then there is no upgrade path, that's your fault.

List from my CPU upgrades on same motherboard include:

Pentium MMX166 (bought used) -> AMD K6-3 450
Celeron 600 (or something, bought used) -> Celeron Tualatin 1300
AMD Athlon64 3000+ -> Athlon64 X2 4200+
AMD FX-4100 -> FX-8350
Ryzen 1700 -> Ryzen 3700X

Over double CPU power with every upgrade. Not so useless

 

[Irata]

Not if game performance and stability is your only concerns. Not to mention resale value Intel chips hold their value better than anything in the market.

I used my 7700k for 3 years and just now sold it for 300.

Wow, you found a serious sucker. Who would be stupid enough to pay that much after Ryzen 3300x reviews were out ?

Or was that before the reviews ? In that case perfect timing and you got lucky.

 

[Irata]

List from my CPU upgrades on same motherboard include:

Pentium MMX166 (bought used) -> AMD K6-3 450
Celeron 600 (or something, bought used) -> Celeron Tualatin 1300
AMD Athlon64 3000+ -> Athlon64 X2 4200+
AMD FX-4100 -> FX-8350
Ryzen 1700 -> Ryzen 3700X

Over double CPU power with every upgrade. Not so useless

Had a K6-III myself, but the ‚+‘ version, and the low power one at that. Now, performance wise it was not up to par compared to the faster P3 and Athlon, but still very nice and the low power plus ran very cool. Compared to the K6-2 300 it replaced on the same board it was still a very noticeable upgrade.

The Tualatin Celeron were also very nice CPU. Built a system for my now wife with it (1.1 Ghz low power version) and that, too was one nice cool and silent system. Unfortunately the board‘s condensers went bad - that was an issue at the time. Liked the system so much that I had the first batch replaced with high quality ones. Sadly, after a while the smaller condensers failed as well and the guy who had replaced the first batch moved away.

 

[Rdmetz]

Wow, you found a serious sucker. Who would be stupid enough to pay that much after Ryzen 3300x reviews were out ?

Or was that before the reviews ? In that case perfect timing and you got lucky.

Lol you don't check eBay very often these chips STILL sell daily for around this price or even more in some cases just look up "7700k" under sold/completed listings and you'll see.

Intel unlike AMD is valuable and people WILL pay to have it for its stability and performance.

A 7700k OC to 5.0-5.1ghz beats almost everything AMD has had to offer up until now when it comes to gaming performance.


My chip was solid at 5.0ghz and we delid so ran nice and chill. I too knew the 3300x numbers and was worried about the same thing but it doesn't matter plenty still want the Intel level of performance.

 

[Rdmetz]

1. x470 is 100% same as x370 that came out 2017. So x470 is 2017 stuff, not 2018. Same way you could say that R9 280 came out 2014. Except that's exactly same as 7950 that came out 2012...

April 2019 x470 was old hardware, he was basically buying EOL product then. He should have predicted that there will be something new when Zen2 launches, and Zen2 launch was expected less than 6 months later. Point is: when you want good upgrade path, you just cannot randomly buy something. You really must plan ahead. That's what I do. So far, I have upgraded CPU to Every motherboard I have ever bought. And first PC I bought was somewhere around Pentium MMX era.

AMD is no way comparable to Intel this way. Even if your friend bought x470 April 2019, he still has better upgrade paths than Intel has ever offered.

It's not stupid. As I stated, I have upgraded CPU to every motherboard I have bought. It's just, if you randomly buy "something" and then there is no upgrade path, that's your fault.

List from my CPU upgrades on same motherboard include:

Pentium MMX166 (bought used) -> AMD K6-3 450
Celeron 600 (or something, bought used) -> Celeron Tualatin 1300
AMD Athlon64 3000+ -> Athlon64 X2 4200+
AMD FX-4100 -> FX-8350
Ryzen 1700 -> Ryzen 3700X

Over double CPU power with every upgrade. Not so useless

Lol your talking in circles and calling something that's essentially the best they got at the time as a bad decision. And the he should have PREDICTED (like a fortune teller) that the better stuff was going to release a couple months later and that only it would have the upgrade paths that this would not. (even though the ONLY KNOWN FACT was that amd promised full support THROUGH 2020. And now here it is 2020 and he's being told he can't do what he knew at the time he was told he could do because he should have PREDICTED what? That amd would lie?

The other fact is he was buying the best he could at the time and unlike you doesn't buy middle of the road junk just to upgrade to slightly less bad junk.

He bought the top tier parts of the day and was promised upgradability THROUGH 2020. And that's just not the case!

 

[HardReset]

Lol your talking in circles and calling something that's essentially the best they got at the time as a bad decision. And the he should have PREDICTED (like a fortune teller) that the better stuff was going to release a couple months later and that only it would have the upgrade paths that this would not. (even though the ONLY KNOWN FACT was that amd promised full support THROUGH 2020. And now here it is 2020 and he's being told he can't do what he knew at the time he was told he could do because he should have PREDICTED what? That amd would lie?

Like I said: if you want good upgrade path, you just cannot buy something randomly. Additionally: sometimes you have to wait until proper options are available. so yes: he should have predicted that there will be better options available in less than 6 months rather than buying 2 year old stuff.

I have asked many times where AMD promised upgrade path through 2020. So far no one has given any proof. AMD promised support for Socket AM4 through 2020. That was not any sort of promise about any upgrade paths. So he should have predicted that 2 year old chipset would not offer good upgrade path. These upgrade path things are not for beginners.

The other fact is he was buying the best he could at the time and unlike you doesn't buy middle of the road junk just to upgrade to slightly less bad junk.

He bought best that was available at that time but like I said, sometimes you have to wait until better options become available. It was known as early as 2018 February that Zen2 will support PCIe 4.0. Did x470 support PCIe 4.0 at that time? No. So it was very easy to predict that there will be some sort of PCIe 4.0 supporting chipset coming when Zen2 is launched on desktop. It's also very easy to predict that "PCIe 4.0 supporting chipset" (we know now that is x570) will have at least equal and probably better upgrade paths than already obsolete that time x470. There is nothing hard on this one. These things separate beginners from professionals.

He bought the top tier parts of the day and was promised upgradability THROUGH 2020. And that's just not the case!

Just your imagination. To remind you, AMD never promised that. Feel free to PROVE me wrong.

 

[Rdmetz]

Like I said: if you want good upgrade path, you just cannot buy something randomly. Additionally: sometimes you have to wait until proper options are available. so yes: he should have predicted that there will be better options available in less than 6 months rather than buying 2 year old stuff.

I have asked many times where AMD promised upgrade path through 2020. So far no one has given any proof. AMD promised support for Socket AM4 through 2020. That was not any sort of promise about any upgrade paths. So he should have predicted that 2 year old chipset would not offer good upgrade path. These upgrade path things are not for beginners.



He bought best that was available at that time but like I said, sometimes you have to wait until better options become available. It was known as early as 2018 February that Zen2 will support PCIe 4.0. Did x470 support PCIe 4.0 at that time? No. So it was very easy to predict that there will be some sort of PCIe 4.0 supporting chipset coming when Zen2 is launched on desktop. It's also very easy to predict that "PCIe 4.0 supporting chipset" (we know now that is x570) will have at least equal and probably better upgrade paths than already obsolete that time x470. There is nothing hard on this one. These things separate beginners from professionals.



Just your imagination. To remind you, AMD never promised that. Feel free to PROVE me wrong.

You're talking in circles again it was known in 2017 they would support the am4 Socket for upgradability through 2020 as listed here

AMD Confirms AM4 Socket Will Support Future Ryzen Processors Through 2020

AMD Confirms AM4 Socket Will Support Future Ryzen Processors Through 2020

hothardware.com

And only a psychic could have predicted that that would me a support process up and down the generations except the last one. This is just not something anyone could predict and is exactly why so many are upset (especially b450 owners who bought in even later) that they have no where to go.

Try all you like to justify it, but amd (if they outright didn't LIE) they mislead people with a false sense of security. And left people buying current hardware with 0 upgrade paths.

Even Intel is promising 1 newer level of support with LGA 1200 (rocket lake).

All that really matters is I made the right choice in 2017 to go 7700k and return my 1800x and it paid off 3 years later. I got 3 years of better gaming performance and at the end was able to sell my chip for 300 of the original 350 I paid for all the way back then. Where as my buddy who stuck with amd and has no upgrade path to a current 2020 setup is stuck buying everything new along with me (no problem there its been 3 years) but he paid 500 for his 1800x and can't even get 150 today. Not to mention he's dealt with sub par gaming performance this whole time.

I made the right call and PREDICTED the best move, but that's because I was smart and went intel and my 2 friends who've both gone ryzen have suffered with stability issues every month since purchase and have lost significantly more in resale value.

I think I'll continue to "predict" what the right move will be to get the most out of my money and when Resale and upgrades are both weighted along with cost and reliability. Intel is just the smartest move.

I've said since day 1 with ryzen I'll look at them as an option ONLY when they can claim to have the top gaming performance (the kind people pay extra for when it comes to buying used parts) and even after all this time AMD has yet to take that crown and looks like they still won't be.

So my 10900k and Z490 will get me buy til I need pci 4.0 for real and then I'll sell it off (for much more than the same priced and released AMD PARTS from today) at that time and get the best new stuff that's out then knowing I paid much less for it thanks to the resale value of my 10900k.

Either way I end up spending the least and have the most performance.

A real win win.

 

[HardReset]

You're talking in circles again it was known in 2017 they would support the am4 Socket for upgradability through 2020 as listed here

AMD Confirms AM4 Socket Will Support Future Ryzen Processors Through 2020

AMD Confirms AM4 Socket Will Support Future Ryzen Processors Through 2020

hothardware.com

There is nothing that says AMD will support AM4 for upgradeability through 2020.

During the question and answer session, Prior talked about the future of AMD's Zen architecture, noting that Ryzen 2 will use the same AM4 socket as current generation Ryzen processors. He also reaffirmed AMD's plan to AM4 will remain relevant through 2020.

1. It was planned that AM4 will remain relevant through 2020.

2. Zen3 will use Socket AM4 so even if that was promised, that promise is fulfilled.

3. They said Ryzen 2 will use same AM4 socket but for Zen3 it's just "plan" and nothing about "same AM4 socket than currrent Ryzen processors".

Those make big difference. Still waiting for that proof.

And only a psychic could have predicted that that would me a support process up and down the generations except the last one. This is just not something anyone could predict and is exactly why so many are upset (especially b450 owners who bought in even later) that they have no where to go.

How about PCIe 4.0 support? In case Zen3 works on B450 motherboards, AMD just couldn't advertise Zen3 platform as "PCIe 4.0 platform" since there are many builders that will use non-PCIe 4.0 motherboard with Zen3. So yes, that was something that could be predicted. Only problem here is that B550 is still not yet available but as pointed out earlier, B550 is made by ASMedia, not AMD.

Try all you like to justify it, but amd (if they outright didn't LIE) they mislead people with a false sense of security. And left people buying current hardware with 0 upgrade paths.

Even Intel is promising 1 newer level of support with LGA 1200 (rocket lake).

Buying 2017 chipset and expecting it to support CPU launched somewhere 2020 is not good idea. There is also upgrade path, 16-core Ryzen 9 3950. Not bad.

And Intel's so called upgrade will be what? +200MHz clock speed ?

Intel's upgrade path: you get 5% more clock speed

AMD's upgrade path: you get 20% more clock speed, +15% IPC and 100% more cores.

You just cannot compare those.

All that really matters is I made the right choice in 2017 to go 7700k and return my 1800x and if paid off 3 years later. I got 3 years of better gaming performance and at the end was able to sell my chip for 30p of the original 350 I paid for all the way back then. Where as my buddy who stuck with amd and has no upgrade path to a modern path is stuck buying everything new along with me (no problem there its been 3 years) but he paid 500 for his 1800x and can't even get 150 today. Not to mention he's dealt with sub pat gaming performance this whole time.

I made the right call and PREDICTED the best move, but that's because I was smart and went intel and my 2 friends who've both gone ryzen have suffered with stability issues every month since purchase and have lost significantly more in resale value.

Anyone that pays 300 for 7700K today is *****. There are always people that pay more for used stuff that new one costs but that's rarely big picture. About upgrade paths, that who bought 1800X can upgrade to R9 3950. That is over double CPU power. I also wonder what you did with your motherboard when you sold that 7700K?

Strangely I didn't have any stability issues with my Ryzen.

I think I'll continue to "predict" what the right move will be to get the most out of my money and when Resale and upgrades are both weighted along with cost and reliability. Intel is just the smartest move.

I've said since day 1 with ryzen I'll look at them as an option ONLY when they can claim to have the top gaming performance (the kind people pay extra for when it comes to buying used parts) and even after all this time and has yet to take that crown and looks like they still won't be.

So my 10900k and Z490 will get me buy til I need pci 4.0 for real and then I'll sell it off (for much more than the same priced and released amd parts) at that time and get the best new stuff that's out then.

Either way I end up spending the least and have the most performance.

A real win win.

Problem with resale value is that you need someone to pay what you ask. Anyone who pays 300 bucks for 7700K just *****. When it comes to reliability, vulnerabilities like Meltdown strikes Intel badly whereas AMD is safe. So much about "reliability".

I take Ryzen 7 3700X anytime over any quad core, even when gaming. Since I have plenty of background stuff that will choke any quad core when gaming same time. Not to mention AMD platforms are superior compared to any Intel platform. Intel still does not have proper way (and Z490 won't have either) to connect M.2 SSD directly into CPU. And that makes difference during gaming. If you forget timedemos and other useless "no network connection" etc benchmarks. Intel's solution causes lag that is easily noticed on IRL use whereas with AMD you can connect M.2 SSD into CPU. New console generation will make this even more visible.

 

[neeyik]

@HardReset @Rdmetz - please take your discussion in a private Conversation.

 

[Bamda]

Oh and don't forget that Intel Z490 motherboards are up to 60% more expensive than predecessors, according to retailer.

Got to love that Intel Tax.

 

[PurpleYoda]

I did and I got almost what I paid for my 7700k selling it (before eBay fees and such but still).


These chips hold their value (top end intel that is) and its almost an investment into future savings by buying them vs the huge losses seen with ryzen.

If you're a regular upgrade not afraid of selling used parts it's really the best as far as cost to performance (for gaming) you can get.

I usually do just that, sell old CPU and motherboard and sometimes even RAM (but not this time around) and put it towards an upgrade. As you can see my “cycle” is around 2-3 years, I bought this CPU in 2017 so it’s about time to refresh ;-) I onow which CPU to go for , the i7 one but I am wondering which MOBO to go for, I’m not some huge overclocker, have my i7 on 4.9 and happy with it, and currently on Asus Gaming F MOBO so not some Extreme, ROG or whatever for hundreds of pounds, I hope there will be something similair available soon that won’t break the bank ;-)

 

[PurpleYoda]

I'm sure this has been pointed out time and time again: The performance difference between the 3600 and 9900K in gaming isn't that much. If you are playing at 1440p or above, it's essentially nill. Not to mention, power consumption. For 99% of PC Gamers who are on a budget, it makes zero sense to get the 9900K unless you have money to burn. Might as well get the 3600, put that extra towards a GPU, and save yourself a couple hundred in air conditioning costs this summer to boot by not having to cool that Intel.

If you are a gamer I would assume it would make more sense to go for i7 instead of i9 and use saved money for something else. Personally I already have Kraken CPU water cooler and after finding out it will work with this gen of CPU’s I don’t have to factor in the cost of cooling at all so it is a win win for me, especially coming from 7700K so 3 years in my refresh “cycle” and I still can reuse my cooling, sweet!