LordVile95
Posts: 1,094 +751
Only if the Netherlands and Britain have suddenly become Israeli then no
European Central Bank warns AI bubble burst could trigger systemic fallout
- Thread starter Alfonso Maruccia
- Start date
pnntmp
Posts: 1,044 +1,661
Spotify was founded in April 2006 which is more than 20 years. ASML and ARM were founded in the mid 1980s.
Europe stopped innovating and completely lost its risk taking startup culture long ago. Now it's drowning in bureaucracy producing one regulatory nonsense on top of another. Nothing else.
LordVile95
Posts: 1,094 +751
What profitable American company was founded in the last 20 years?
Again not really you’re just not looking
Anton Longshot
Posts: 648 +948
pnntmp
Posts: 1,044 +1,661
Actually I looked a lot for new major EU tech companies but didn't find any. Are you suggesting I should use a microscope?
Taroo
Posts: 148 +198
This is the real issue IMO.
Some rich investors and big companies blindly invest tons of cash in a blackhole.
Then it'll explode.
And lots of normal people all around the world will face financial consequences. The same normal people that did not want to have AI in their coffee maker.
LordVile95
Posts: 1,094 +751
Wow, this comment section is getting good. I’m going to let it bake a little longer before I drop my two cents. I need some time to let all this propaganda, financial wizardry, and economic doomsday forecasting really marinate.
This is good stuff!
This is good stuff!
pnntmp
Posts: 1,044 +1,661
Palantir, Uber, AirBnb, Stripe, Meta, Coinbase, Robinhood, Doordash, Snoflake ... thousands.
Of course the purpose of this ridiculous gotcha question to get an answer like OpenAI or Anthropic, so that you can jump and explain that investments are actually losses. Again.
Apparently you failed to understand it the first time, so focus - I'm typing this slowly: Investments are not losses.
Yes, economics moves in cycles—nothing new. Wall Street manufactures hysteria to chase the next shiny object—nothing new.
The world economy isn't going to end because of a software bubble. More likely: just like the dot-com crash, the hype will burn off, the bad companies will go bankrupt, the US infrastructure will absorb the blow, and the tech will just become another standard utility we use every day.
Protect your assets. Save for rainy days. Make wise economic decisions during personally prosperous times. Of course there will be hard times ahead. Like the weather, it’s just how things function.
However, critifictional, tech-gnostic, corporate-capture cynicism isn’t a good replacement for sober market analysis.
I know what the correction will be 
every student from pre-primary to yr 12 or the equivalent will receive a shiny refurbished AI GPU desktop system - silicon heaven is longer accepting calculators 
yes we are!
every student from pre-primary to yr 12 or the equivalent will receive a shiny refurbished AI GPU desktop system - silicon heaven is longer accepting calculators By burying the debt! **cough** evergrande
Humans=CHEAP Intelligence
yes we are!LordVile95
Posts: 1,094 +751
Palantir is older than Spotify, so is meta and the rest aren’t exactly tech are they? So no you can’t even fulfill the criteria.
pnntmp
Posts: 1,044 +1,661
Actually Facebook is older than Spotify, Meta was established in early 2020s and incorporates major acquisitions like Instagram, Whatsup and others, so it's a totally different entity. You're right about Palantir, but one off does invalidate the others. Despite not understanding basic economics I presume you know how to search, so you can expand the list as much as you like.
It's really ridiculous to deny the fact the EU abruptly stopped innovating somewhere around year 2000, which coincides with it becoming a bureaucratic mess. The fact it practically does not exist on the AI map says enough.
pnntmp
Posts: 1,044 +1,661
Actually human intelligence is very expensive. Have you ever tried to decipher hundreds of pages of horrible legalese, or create a software that does something you need? This would have costed you at least hundreds, far more likely thousands of dollars. Now you have it for free (or for $20, which is another way to say 'for free'). Today you have an expert in whatever area you want instantly available to you for free, that's cheap intelligence.Humans=CHEAP Intelligence
ActualViking
Posts: 206 +220
I strongly disagree. The EU is doing a lot of good.
One example is how the EU is lifting up member state with struggling economies, essentially providing welfare for nations, and then there is the insisting push that members must fight corruption and adhere to democratic values like fx. independent courts. And there is the support for Ukraine, the support for the ICC, the strong consumer protection laws (that means better products in the whole world), the food safety politics, the fight against climate change...
How can you say the EU doesn't benefit the world?
LordVile95
Posts: 1,094 +751
No, a restructuring doesn’t change the fact that the bussiness existed beforehand. If Ford and GM merged tomorrow to form a shared entity it wouldn’t mean Ford was founded in 2026 would it? It’s like saying Apple was founded on like 3 separate dates becaure of restructuring and name changes.
Aside from the fact that most current technology is powered by, made using and programmed with European IP sure.
The US ruined the middle east with the Iran war, now they're gonna ruin Europe with their AI bubble burst.
airbornex
Posts: 695 +949
AI can be genuinely useful and still be surrounded by a financial bubble. The internet changed everything, but that did not make every dot-com valuation sensible.
The other interesting angle of this story is how many Europeans may think they own diversified global funds when a surprisingly large portion of their savings ultimately rests on the same handful of US technology companies.
The other interesting angle of this story is how many Europeans may think they own diversified global funds when a surprisingly large portion of their savings ultimately rests on the same handful of US technology companies.
Theinsanegamer
Posts: 9,298 +19,006
Except those member states are still poor, the successful states are being wrung out of their resource sot prop up the failing ones, ornery regulations drive innovation or of continent and so on.
Still waiting for Florida to be underwater because of climate change BTW. 6 years late and counting, where's the water?
pnntmp
Posts: 1,044 +1,661
Only part of the business existed beforehead, the new Meta is something very different from the standalone Facebook.
"most current technology is powered by, made using and programmed with European IP sure" is quite an exaggeration. It's in part true indeed, Europe created plenty of great things .. before year 2000. Part of that is still around. The problem is the number of new great things is around zero lately. EU tech is just old behemoths running by inertia and gradually losing it, nothing new. Europe completely dropped off the AI race, there isn't even one frontier lab (they had one, but it's a C -list player now, even though they removed most of the ridiculous red tape specifically for them). Everything notable in AI happens in the US (except for regulation, of course, where Europe beats the rest of the world combined by orders of magnitude).
LordVile95
Posts: 1,094 +751
No it was a restructuring to distance itself from controversy.
Can you name something that doesn’t use it then if it’s an exaggeration?
Well, after allowing this thread sufficient time to ferment, we appear to have produced a rather impressive vintage.
Apparently AI is simultaneously worthless, inevitable, a civilization ending financial weapon, cheap intelligence, prohibitively expensive intelligence, and somehow responsible for a discussion about whether Florida should currently be underwater.
Excellent progress, gentlemen.
There does seem to be one possibility nobody is terribly interested in...AI can be extremely useful and still be caught in an investment bubble.
The internet was useful before the dot com crash, during the dot com crash, and after the dot com crash. Cisco routers didn't stop routing packets because Pets.com went belly up. A technology being valuable does not mean every valuation, every startup, or every trillion dollar capital expenditure attached to it is automatically sensible.
Conversely, spending enormous amounts of money does not magically constitute a loss simply because cash left the building. Building data centers, buying GPUs and constructing power infrastructure are investments in productive assets. Whether those investments eventually produce adequate returns is another question entirely. Calling them losses today is bad accounting...declaring them guaranteed profits tomorrow is fortune telling with a calculator.
And can we please stop treating 2008 as a unit of measurement?
The financial crisis wasn't catastrophic merely because somebody could write a very large number followed by twelve zeroes. It became systemic because leverage, mortgages, derivatives and banking exposure transmitted losses throughout the financial system. If AI crashes, the important question isn't simply “How many trillions?” It's who owns the risk, how leveraged that risk is, and where the losses travel when the music stops.
There could absolutely be an ugly correction. Overvalued companies could disappear. Investors could lose fortunes. Pension funds could take hits. Projects could be cancelled. None of that requires AI to suddenly become useless, nor does it automatically send civilization back to exchanging goats for firewood.
So perhaps we could retire both...“AI is worthless and contributes nothing.” and
“AI demand exists, therefore every investment must eventually make money.”
Reality has this irritating habit of occupying the space between slogans.
Now, if someone could explain how we got from an ECB financial risk warning to Meta's birthday, Israeli technology, Evergrande and the current elevation of the Atlantic Ocean relative to Florida, I would be most grateful.
I may have missed a turn...and as @captaincranky so eloquently says...Cheers!
Apparently AI is simultaneously worthless, inevitable, a civilization ending financial weapon, cheap intelligence, prohibitively expensive intelligence, and somehow responsible for a discussion about whether Florida should currently be underwater.
Excellent progress, gentlemen.
There does seem to be one possibility nobody is terribly interested in...AI can be extremely useful and still be caught in an investment bubble.
The internet was useful before the dot com crash, during the dot com crash, and after the dot com crash. Cisco routers didn't stop routing packets because Pets.com went belly up. A technology being valuable does not mean every valuation, every startup, or every trillion dollar capital expenditure attached to it is automatically sensible.
Conversely, spending enormous amounts of money does not magically constitute a loss simply because cash left the building. Building data centers, buying GPUs and constructing power infrastructure are investments in productive assets. Whether those investments eventually produce adequate returns is another question entirely. Calling them losses today is bad accounting...declaring them guaranteed profits tomorrow is fortune telling with a calculator.
And can we please stop treating 2008 as a unit of measurement?
The financial crisis wasn't catastrophic merely because somebody could write a very large number followed by twelve zeroes. It became systemic because leverage, mortgages, derivatives and banking exposure transmitted losses throughout the financial system. If AI crashes, the important question isn't simply “How many trillions?” It's who owns the risk, how leveraged that risk is, and where the losses travel when the music stops.
There could absolutely be an ugly correction. Overvalued companies could disappear. Investors could lose fortunes. Pension funds could take hits. Projects could be cancelled. None of that requires AI to suddenly become useless, nor does it automatically send civilization back to exchanging goats for firewood.
So perhaps we could retire both...“AI is worthless and contributes nothing.” and
“AI demand exists, therefore every investment must eventually make money.”
Reality has this irritating habit of occupying the space between slogans.
Now, if someone could explain how we got from an ECB financial risk warning to Meta's birthday, Israeli technology, Evergrande and the current elevation of the Atlantic Ocean relative to Florida, I would be most grateful.
I may have missed a turn...and as @captaincranky so eloquently says...Cheers!
pnntmp
Posts: 1,044 +1,661
I don't remember using an EU originating technology newer than Spotify.
LordVile95
Posts: 1,094 +751
Whatever device you’re typing on currently was made with technology newer than Spotify. The chip inside was made on a European machine, likely from a model within the last 19 years, the processor in your phone is an ARM design likely of the last few years.
OortCloud
Posts: 2,554 +3,744
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